Haha, I was waiting for someone to post this. I feel that the Fed controls this issue, but the problem is they have turned a blind eye to it. Illegal immigration is a huge problem in this country and Arizona is particularly effected.

Good for Arizona. God Forbid America asserted it's RIGHT to have defined borders and expect other countries citizens to respect them.

 

In as much as I am an immigrant myself albeit legal (lol), I think the Obama administration is foot dragging on this issue, I think there is a huge strain on any local economy if you have a huge illegal immigrant population who do not pay taxes but enjoy government services one way or the other. The Obama White House is trying to be politically correct because they are worried about Hispanic votes, but this will not hold water for a long time. It also insane when people claim that illegal’s do the work Americans don't want to do, whereas illegal aliens are artificially depressing compensation because they are the only ones who will do the work at such low wages.

 

1) They are not Hispanics, they are AMERICANS and should act accordingly. I am of Italian heritage and you know what, if a boat of Italians were trying to illegally enter the USA I would send them back. If you want to be a citizen and enjoy all the rights and services it entails then start respecting this country enough to go through the process. Millions of people do it, being from Mexico does not give you some special right to circumvent a countries processes.

2) I don't wanna blame Obama for this. Regan let this shit slide. Bush wanted to make everyone a citizen. We need to secure our borders 1st and then decide what to do. No sense making everyone a citizen to only have more people come after. We need to set a limit and stick to it.

3) Illegal immigrants do not depress wages. They inhibit automation. They have machines that pick tomatoes, they can have a machine that picks strawberries and other delicate fruits. We turn a blind eye to illegals because we use them as slaves. That shit is sickening. Any company caught employing illegals ought to be fined out the ass.

4) English is our language. Learn it. I am more than happy having tons of languages spoken and taught to kids and adults. I do not want to pay to have translators and everything else under the sun. This is an English speaking country, deal with it. Every generation before current made an effort to assimilate and learn English, people currently should do the same.

By not speaking our language and taking the side of people who are here illegally it just makes a divide. No one is against LEGAL immigration. It amazes me that people cannot tell the difference.

Mexico is not that bad in comparison to other countries so I get real sick and tired about hearing the better life argument. People can come here if they want; go fill out a form like everyone else. I can think of probably 20 other countries where life sucks 10x more than it does in Mexico and you know what, they fill out the form like everyone else.

It still blows my mind how people can not be against ILLEGAL immigration. Once you become an American you need to start thinking like one.

 

i support it. that being said i have a teammate that is Venezuelan and told me about a cousin that was mistaken for an illegal and pulled over. i can see how that would piss people off.

Ill agree with anthony in regards to people being against ILLEGAL immigration, c'mon people!

 

Was he pulled over explicitly for looking illegal or was his citizenship check in the process of a lawful stop?

I don't know if I support stopping every mexican looking person on the street and checking them. If someone is speeding and gets stopped then fine. I have read the Arizona law and it is firmly against random stops.

 
Best Response

"Obama is using this suit to gain Hispanic votes. They know they wont win this lawsuit, they just want to use more tax payer dollars to buy more votes."

Complete bullshit. Arizona ought to be applauded by all the Americans of Mexican descent. As part of their new country they should be proud of the United States for standing up against lawlessness.

Gee , I wish I could illegally immigrate to Mexico. The USA is a horrible nation that abuses people. I am allergic to cold weather and don't want to wait to become a LEGAL Mexican citizen so I am going to cross the boarder at night. I am sure the Mexican government will be as supportive of me as the USA is.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2010-05-25-mexico-migrants_N.htm

Illegal immigrants are just looking for a better life. We should turn the other cheek. Kind of like how Mexico turns the other cheek when people from Guatemala, El Salvador, Honduras, and Nicaragua try and find a better life in Mexico.

http://www.speroforum.com/a/31838/Human-rights-report-denounces-Mexicos…

http://www.cis.org/articles/2002/back702.html

http://migration.ucdavis.edu/mn/more.php?id=515_0_2_0

Fucking Hypocrisy

 

@ net2adeolu. seems like you are Nigerian from your name (quite a few "olus" in gtown). The African cab drivers in the dmv area love having conversations and some have told me they came here illegaly and did so to get a piece of freedom and the American dream.

Now I think the difference between them and the Illegal Mexicans is that the drivers are willing to adapt to American society, learn English and what not. The truth is that America is a nation of immigrants and most of the immigrants that help build this nation were illegal but later became legal and adapted to the American way. From an economic standpoint, banning illegal immigration is a nono!!! the price of almost everything will RISE. but from a safety standpoint (esp in Arizona) ban it!!!

 
alreadyrich:
@ net2adeolu. seems like you are Nigerian from your name (quite a few "olus" in gtown). The African cab drivers in the dmv area love having conversations and some have told me they came here illegaly and did so to get a piece of freedom and the American dream.

Now I think the difference between them and the Illegal Mexicans is that the drivers are willing to adapt to American society, learn English and what not. The truth is that America is a nation of immigrants and most of the immigrants that help build this nation were illegal but later became legal and adapted to the American way. From an economic standpoint, banning illegal immigration is a nono!!! the price of almost everything will RISE. but from a safety standpoint (esp in Arizona) ban it!!!

Yeah, I am of Nigerian descent, You just hit the nail on the head, these illegal Mexicans are really outrageous, like you said they never want to adapt nor assimilate, every other immigrant community in the United States from Africans to Europeans learn to speak english, but this folks don't want to, I can't even communicate with the maintenance guys in my apartment building, and one of them had the guts to tell me that, unlike most other residents in the building he finds it strange that I cannot speak spanish, like I am supposed to learn his language,so I can tell him that I am having problems with my AC.

 

Difference is entitlement man. Just because the USA is right next to a country doesn't give anyone the privilege of coming here.

That 70% figure is absolutely sickening. Shows what kind a piss poor job this country is doing to create the American spirit. Don't these kids say the pledge of allegiance? I am sorry, but this is a simple law. Anyone that supports illegal immigration into this country is not an American.

As for most of us came here illegally, I doubt that. Not too many rafts will float across the Atlantic. We had this place called Ellis Island and you were documented and checked over. If people think it is hard to get into this country now they should of tried it years ago.

I love the counter argument that this is discrimination. I think Arizona should check every single person for ID. White, Chinese, whatever. Everyone. Now that argument is eliminated people should be fine with this.

Real glad to know that we let people into this country, let them vote, give them rights and freedoms and they actively support and try and undermine this countries laws.

Arizona's law will stand. Other states will be emboldened and do their own laws. Obama will win the Hispanic vote, but oh well, it would of went Democrat anyway. This will further solidify the Republican base.

I have my ID on me at all times. If you don't they can easily check with your social or home address. This isn't the stone age, cops will just pull it up on their computer. Problem solved.

 
AnthonyD1982:
Difference is entitlement man. Just because the USA is right next to a country doesn't give anyone the privilege of coming here.

That 70% figure is absolutely sickening. Shows what kind a piss poor job this country is doing to create the American spirit. Don't these kids say the pledge of allegiance? I am sorry, but this is a simple law. Anyone that supports illegal immigration into this country is not an American.

As for most of us came here illegally, I doubt that. Not too many rafts will float across the Atlantic. We had this place called Ellis Island and you were documented and checked over. If people think it is hard to get into this country now they should of tried it years ago.

I love the counter argument that this is discrimination. I think Arizona should check every single person for ID. White, Chinese, whatever. Everyone. Now that argument is eliminated people should be fine with this.

Real glad to know that we let people into this country, let them vote, give them rights and freedoms and they actively support and try and undermine this countries laws.

Arizona's law will stand. Other states will be emboldened and do their own laws. Obama will win the Hispanic vote, but oh well, it would of went Democrat anyway. This will further solidify the Republican base.

I have my ID on me at all times. If you don't they can easily check with your social or home address. This isn't the stone age, cops will just pull it up on their computer. Problem solved.

I definitely understand the sense of frustration regarding illegal immigration. As an international student (from Mexico, of all places), I am extremely grateful for having been given the opportunity to get an education that I could only dream to get in my home country. I am very respectful of the law, and have always been very diligent in satisfying every single immigration requirement as a student.

However, I do have to say that I feel uneasy with laws like the Arizona law. You say you think "Arizona should check every single person for ID. White, Chinese, whatever." Sure, if this were the case then I would have nothing against it. However, the truth is that it doesn't happen this way and this makes a huge difference. I won't reiterate the reasoning from others who have pointed out that this law is racial in that those who are Hispanic-looking will need to show an identification, whereas others will not.

You may think: "Okay, that's no biggie. If you look Mexican, you just have to show your ID. Not a big price to pay to be in the US". However:

a) As a non-immigrant who is here legally, it is actually really hard to get a drivers' license in many states. This means that a law like this would force students in Arizona to have their passports and I-94 forms with them at all times. These documents are not easily replaceable and losing them would be a huge impediment for any immigration process, such as renewal of immigration status.

b) As an immigrant or US citizen, I can see how it would be really hurtful to be suspected of being illegal just for being brown. Last week I was going to get dinner with my girlfriend when an old woman started insulting me, calling me a wetback, crying that I should go back to my country on a missile and stating that I was not welcome here. I hope none of you have experienced the humiliation of being judged based on the color of your skin. Although I understand this is nothing compared to the suffering some have experienced and continue to experience, I can certainly attest to feeling really hurt by this incident. Why should there be laws that further push an implicit point of 'Hispanics vs Americans' as opposed to the real issue of illegal immigration?

I am skeptical that the most efficient way to tackle immigration problems is by asking people on the streets to prove their status. How about a more efficient way to verify worker eligibility and tougher sanctions and improved detection of those that hire illegal immigrants?

I cannot comment on the legality of the measure, and as a non-American I also know I can only adhere to the rules, and leave if they become unbearable. However, one of the reasons why I really value my experience in the US is its cultural richness. I only hope federal and local legislations stay congruent with this principle.

PS. Long time reader. First post here.

 

I find it odd that Hispanics vote DEM. I'm not stereotyping, but Hispanic cultures tend to emphasize hard work, religious commitment, and family values, all things that are typically associated with the GOP.

looking for that pick-me-up to power through an all-nighter?
 
<span class=keyword_link><a href=//www.wallstreetoasis.com/finance-dictionary/what-is-london-interbank-offer-rate-libor>LIBOR</a></span>:
I find it odd that Hispanics vote DEM. I'm not stereotyping, but Hispanic cultures tend to emphasize hard work, religious commitment, and family values, all things that are typically associated with the GOP.

You are right. I've had this thought all along so this is kinda peculiar. I think the problem arises with the line between classes. So many Hispanics reside in the lower income bracket and the DEMs are all about entitlement and give services/benefits to the lower income classes. Part of the issue might have to do with the lack of assimilation that Anthony and I have mentioned in the past.

You have a lot of new Hispanic Americans who are only here to make money, not to become Americans. I feel like their allegiance lies with their relatives in Mexico. It seems that immigrants from other countries, Africa, India, etc. come here to make a better life (in some cases to escape persecution/war). In my opinion, most illegal Mexican immigrants don't come here to take advantage of the opportunities (both jobs and education) for their children and to live the "American dream" they come to get paid.

Regards

"The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant, it's just that they know so much that isn't so." - Ronald Reagan
 

Good idea in principle and states should have the right to protect their borders, but will this law ultimately do that? I think if anything it will just lead to massive racial profiling and discrimination. For anyone that has lived in the South, there are a lot of Latinos that live in those states that are citizens / permanent residents who will still be targeted. Is that lawful or justified?

I mean..half the cities in those states have Spanish names...

Also, how do you prove you're a citizen? How is this law even enforced without being blatantly racist...

 

Haha this is a joke.. You people making comments and you are not even in Arizona. Matter of fact you are not even in the same region of the country, yet you are portraying yourselves as experts.

Ha some of the egos on this site is truly amazing.

First off, I am here and have seen this firsthand. Check out the federal numbers, crime rates have not gone up in Arizona for over a decade. Mexicans come here, just like 98% of our family tree came over here over the last 200 years. They come here for a better life, same reasoning for our ancestors. You know if the crime rate was sky-rocketing then there could be an argument.

Second, it is called racial profiling. I should not even have discuss this with you. But yet a 28 year old from Villanova, will explain what is unconstitutional and what is not. But when you give the police the right to question based off of their skin color. That is called racial profiling. The reason is because white people will not be questioned for their info. Now Anthony brings up a good point, if you say everyone will need to have ID ready to go, no matter what you are, then that is fine. But that is not the case here. Sorry!

Third, this is the result of when you have uneducated and hence unintelligent people making decisions. Arizona is the complete joke of the country and I can not wait to leave. You will find no greater uneducated, literally stupid (slow motor skills), racist people in the country. There is a reason why there education system is in the bottom 5 every damn year.

Fourth, the Mexicans that come over, not all (that would be lying) but the vast majority would have no problem becoming legal citizens. Except the people that hire them want to keep them under the table so THEY (the employers) do not have pay taxes. Someone mentioned it before, the shit jobs they do, Jesus you would not believe, they are literally slaves being taken advantage by these business owners who use their service. If someone should be punished it should be the business owners that use and abuse them and then do not own up to employing them to the government.

Fifth, "Obama doing this for votes" hahahaha. Is this a joke, who put that in your mind? Who is it the GED carrying Palin? Maybe its the Associate degreed Jan Brewer (Governor of Arizona)? Oh I know the leader of you wackos the High School Diploma, Former Alcoholic, "Self-Taught Genius", Disc Jockey, Glenn Beck? Listen I do not mean to come out harsh on this but you people to giving opinions portraying yourself as experts or knowledgeable is irresponsible. The Justice Department or Obama, whoever you want to blame this, is protecting the Constitution, that is one of your responsiblities when you are in office. Hence brings us back to Point 2.

Sixth, I am like a great majority of you. I am a free marketer through and through. Keep goverment intervention out of the markets, the act of government creates for a great inefficiency. This statement has been proven for years and years, in all various types of markets. The smaller the government, the better. You can with-a-doubt question various policy decisions made by Obama. I was furious when earlier in the year, Obama mentioned about further fining financial instituations that took TARP money. He can't be serious at that time 95% of the many financial players have paid back the government with great interest. Now that is catering to the crowd, who wanted our industry leader's heads on a platter. Don't say that he is just doing this act for votes. Like Republicans or any politician in the history of politics won't try to get votes?!?! Really?!?!

I believe though what this problem is much larger and that is the true quality of politicians in office. I mean the last decade of elections for our highest office has been a joke. We had a person who literally can not read and completely makes up words. We have a guy who can not even win his own state; in an election where the guy with the most votes lost. We have another guy (regardless what you think about the war in the Middle East) who calls our troops stupid and lazy (yet if he won the election, he becomes Commander in Chief). We have the guy that I liked the most of the past decade (John McCain) and then he shoots himself in head by the stupidest VP, unqualified candidate in modern history to lose an election that he was favored to win just a year before.

The problem is why aren't are some of our best and brightest going into these roles. Why do we have such "a low choice among the fruit"? Will it be impossible to find truly articulate, caring leaders to lead this country. I believe the odds are against it. Society's brightest and most driven, in a capitalist market, will be allured to the money that financial institutions provide. In our society that is our right. We have made sacrifices to study and work hard to get our accomplishments. It is completely natural and okay to want to be rewarded for these sacrifices. Hell a lot of us here made these sacrifices and, as a result, we will never have to worry about what 90% of our country's citizens will have to worry about and that is being able to regularly pay the bills without worry.

Anyways just my 2 cents.. lol

 

i dont have all the facts and not an expert in this particular area, BUT

read somewhere where OVERWHELMINGLY LARGE % of illegal immigrants are criminals (and rank among top-tiers of various violent and important crimes).

Lock the borders. We dont need the US to become a failed Mexico state drug/gang situation in the southern US and such, esp as US has too many domestic, austerity, and international security issues to deal with.

Like the MMS, the feds have become too bureaucratic and issue has been left to back burner. Good for AZ to call this out, make transparent, and put pressure

 
Victor252:
Yeah like Explorer man says, there's no increase in crime. Check out this ABC news article

http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/story?id=6848672&page=1

It only has the second worst kidnapping rates in the world, behind Mexico City. To suggest that crime is out of control due to illegal immigrants is clearly an outlandish and inflammatory remark.

On the other hand. over all violetn crime has dropped

http://mediamatters.org/research/201004290029

citing from legit sources supposedly

http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/dataonline/Search/Crime/State/StatebyState.cfm

 
Victor252][quote=Victor252:
Yeah like Explorer man says, there's no increase in crime. Check out this ABC news article

http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/story?id=6848672&page=1

It only has the second worst kidnapping rates in the world, behind Mexico City. To suggest that crime is out of control due to illegal immigrants is clearly an outlandish and inflammatory remark.

On the other hand. over all violetn crime has dropped

http://mediamatters.org/research/201004290029

citing from legit sources supposedly

http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/dataonline/Search/Crime/State/StatebyState.cfm…]

I appreciate you actually putting raw unbaised data. It is sad to see people simple minded people like AnthonyD, Victor and others, who do not have a clue make comments thinking they are educated about it because they read a website... HAHAHHA.. talk about egos

I would love for them to spin this data around. You can't.

THE DAMN CRIME RATE DROPS TWICE THE NATIONAL AVERAGE.... Yet it is dangerous...

Hahaha.. What a joke.... Why am I even wasting my time bringing fact to people on the complete other side of the country who do not have a clue, but yet small, tunnel visioned mind will not open to analyze the data. It is like investing in $30 stock for a company that has a $1 billion deficit in retained earnings with no short term plan to reverse the negative cash flows year after year.. but you are going to invest because Jim Cramer told you to.

Truly pathetic...

Oh and to the idiot about "You are not American if you support illegal immigrants".. I do not support illegal immigrants but if people want a chance at freedom and a good life.. you are more than welcome.. that is how a vast majority of us got here through our family tree...

So now we are here, so no one else can come over here... Haha you selfish prick.. Maybe the early americans should have rejected your parents when they came over on boat..

If they come over from Mexico and want to work to try and provide for their kids, then yes they should come over. If it did cause crime and violence, then you weigh the pros and cons and in that the cons outweigh the pros so they are out. But the data states that CRIME is DOWN.

SO you can conclude that the mexicans that have been coming over from the past 20 years do not have a substantial effect on crime.

 

http://www.azdps.gov/About/Reports/docs/Crime_In_Arizona_Report_2009.pdf

You guys are jokes seriously.. you are really going to believe that crap... at least out up credible sources

The fact of the matter is you have no idea and you are just going with whatever media you are following is telling you.

Hell it is like us financial professionals know of and what we think of CNBC... its a joke.. we do our own analysis work.. it is like you guys just watching CNBC and thinking its the ultimate truth without looking at the true data yourself.. and forming your own opinion..

If it makes you feel better accepting a lie thats fine, but do not bring at me because you will be embarassed. You can not argue with fact. No matter what left or right wing bias is spun.

Read that report that is from the state, no political bias. Literally straight from the state government and if you do not want to read that entire thing I will take out the main points:

■Violent crimes in Arizona are down by 15 percent since 2006: The FBI’s preliminary Uniform Crime Report, or UCR, for 2009 shows that violent crime—murder, forcible rape, robbery, and aggravated assault—is down in Arizona for the third year in a row. The absolute number of violent crimes in 2006 was 30,916 in Arizona. By 2009 it had dropped by 15 percent to 26,094.

■Per-capita violent crime rate dropped by 22 percent: Factoring in the change in Arizona’s population, the rate of violent crime per 100,000 persons in 2009 was 390.5, which is a 22 percent decrease from 501.4 per 100,000 in 2006. For comparison’s sake, the violent crime rate in nonborder states such as Georgia and Florida was 410.6 and 604.9 respectively in 2009.

■Arizona’s violent and property crime rate drop was twice the national average: Nationally, violent and property crimes were down between 2008 and 2009, but Arizona saw rates of decline more than double that. The nation as a whole saw a -5.5 percent change in violent crime and -4.9 percent change in property crime from 2008 to 2009, but Arizona experienced a percent change of -11.1 in the former and -12 in the latter in this same time period.

■Kidnappings are tied to Mexico’s organized crime syndicate, not innocent Americans: It’s clear that Arizona has an organized crime problem, with 267 kidnappings in 2009 in Phoenix alone. But the kidnappings most often occur when human smugglers—who are usually part of Mexican drug cartels—demand more money for their services. As Phoenix police Sgt. Tommy Thompson said, “We’re talking about the kidnapping of smugglers and associates. I have no fear that my kids or grandkids will be victims.” This means that our efforts must be directed toward two fronts: fixing our broken immigration system so that people can immigrate legally with visas and not illegally with smugglers, and helping to resolve the deadly war on drugs in Mexico.

■Border cities are among the nation’s safest: Phoenix and other large border (and near-border) cities have some of the nation’s lowest crime rates, including San Diego, El Paso, and Austin.

■Border counties have low violent crime rates: Counties along the southwest border have some of the lowest rates of violent crime per capita in the nation. Their rates have dropped by more than 30 percent since the 1990s.

■There’s no evidence of “spillover” of violence from Mexico: El Paso, Texas, has three bridges leading directly into Ciudad Juarez, Mexico, a city which has suffered a significant percentage of the national death toll brought on by the Mexican war on drug cartels, which approaches 23,000 today. El Paso experienced only 12 murders in 2009, which was actually down from 17 in 2008. San Diego, California saw 41 murders in 2009, down from 55 in 2008, and Tucson, Arizona experienced 35 in 2009, a significant decrease from the 65 murders committed in 2008. Claims of spillover violence are clearly overblown.

■High-immigrant cities are safer: Christopher Dickey, Paris bureau chief and Middle East regional editor for Newsweek, points out that, “San Antonio saw violent crime drop from 9,699 incidents to 7,844; murders from 116 to 99. Compare that with a city like Detroit, which is a little bigger than El Paso and much smaller than San Antonio—and not exactly a magnet for job-seeking immigrants. Its murder rate went up from 323 in 2008 to 361 in 2009.” This recent pattern falls right in line with the calculations of Tim Wadsworth, sociologist from the University of Colorado at Boulder. In Wadsworth’s recent study he concludes that “cities with the largest increases in immigration between 1990 and 2000 experienced the largest decreases in homicide and robbery during the same time period.”

 

I love how almost all of ExplorerMans post was insulting or degrading. I don't see you refuting anything anyone says.

1) The majority of illegal immigrants in this country would love to be citizens. No shit. Problem is you can't come here illegally and then say you want to be a citizen. It is a process.

2) How does the fact that I go to Villanova mean I don't know what I am talking about. This is a pretty simple issue. The USA does not allow people to come here illegally. People are here illegally. The Federal Government is not doing enough to stop it. Arizona has stepped up to the plate. I think a 5 year old could understand this let alone a 28 year old.

3) You say it is racial profiling. I think it is providing normal documents. I know a lot of states are allowing illegal immigrants to get drivers licenses (http://www.theamericanresistance.com/issues/drivers_licenses.html), but Arizona is not one of them. If you are stopped for speeding or anything else, show your drivers license.

Holy shit, this isn't segregation. Show a fucking document. I am so glad people get offended because their rights are being violated by having to show proof that you are in the states legally, but have no issue with violating the law and having people here illegally.

EVERYONE, white, chinese, mexican, whatever should have ID on them. If you don't have ID the police can look you up in the system. No need to stop people at random, but if you do not speak English you probably are not a native citizen. Maybe you just immigrated, that is fine. If you are fresh off the boat you might want to keep some documents on you.

Of course people come here for a better life. Get in line and go through the steps like everyone else. You are not special. I am sure my ancestors who went through Ellis Island wished they could just come right on in. I didn't realize that people from south of the border are better than all the other people who have come before.

Plain fact is it does not matter if crime increases. That is irrelevant. This is about lawfully entering the country. If it makes people feel better than make everyone produce ID so no ones feelings get hurt. I think this is a great law and a very strategic move. I am glad that someones rebuttal to this law is to simply call into question a person education. I suppose I am intrinsically more intelligent than someone else because I have obtained a higher degree than the other person. Real great reasoning.

 

http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/00l4euI9G96cS/610x.jpg

See all those people. Everyone here illegally would just like to say FUCK YOU MORONS for respecting the United States.

Absolutely love it. Look at those fools. They actually got visas and learned US history and took a test. Idiots. All they had to do was come here and throw a fit. I really wanna find someone who got their green card and laugh in their face. I think it is hilarious.

 

Haha

When did I use crime stats to support my argument. You have a reading comprehension issue.

So it is ok for people to come here illegally as long as it is for good cause? You do realize that it is against the law to do that.

You are so smart. When do we say no more? What about Haiti? Life sucks there. I think they should be able to illegally come here before Mexicans. What about people in Afghanistan. Their life is much worse on average than a normal Mexican citizen.

I am glad to know that an "American" doesn't think their wonderful nation has the right to decide how people come here legally. Can you please explain what Mexico is doing with their borders? Isn't this unfair and hypocritical.

Once again, I never quoted crime stats. Learn how to read someones response and argue appropriately. If you are on this site I am going to assume you are in the process of getting at least a Bachelors. Use that education and respond intelligently.

 

Listen maybe I took to stern of a tone to start. But when people start voicing opinions of something that they have never experienced and then rely on something from a damn website... that is irresponsible...

The numbers do not lie.. Crime Rates down TWICE the national average

AnthonyD.... I AGREE with completely.. Everyone (white, black, orange, yellow) should have to readily produce documentation but this law does not simply state that... If it did I am for it... But it doesn't.. Sorry man

And to go one further... If the Mexicans want to come over here for a better life that is fine BUT they HAVE to test and try to fit into social norms...

And AnthonyD there is a correlation between education and intelligence... and when it doubt I will go with the more articulate person..

 

While I think Obama is doing this for votes I also think this is not his issue. Bush had huge Hispanic support and wanted to make everyone a citizen right away. That got shot down because of all types of congressional bitching. Plain fact is this issue is typical American head in the sand bullcrap. It was obviously an issue years ago that President after President has avoided doing anything about.

The realities of the issue is the people who are here now are going to end up staying. There is not going to be massive round ups with people being put into cattle cars and sent back to Mexico. I would like to see the border secured and the people here illegally processed like any other immigrant.

All this arguing is masking the issue that our borders are unsecure and people continually keep coming. You cannot make one group citizens because more will come and expect the same. We need to lock the area down, make people citizens and call it a day.

 

How many people in the Justice Department have illegal Mexicans working on their yards and roofs as we speak? How many friends of people in the Justice Department have illegal Mexicans picking produce for $2/hr?

The only people supporting these illegal immigrants are those who are profiting from them: Obama needs the hispanic vote and let's be honest most companies that do hire illegal immigrants, use them as slaves

 

Bush carried a large Mexican vote during his 1st election. Honestly, I think there are a lot of different shades of Republican and Democrat. You goto the southern states, places with his Hispanic populations and you will find Republicans that speak Spanish, promote Mexican issues, etc. I think having a northern viewpoint makes it seem odd, but once you go to the specific states or counties you see a different picture.

People just don't realize the United States is not never never land. We have a lot of issues and a lot of unemployment. The government has an obligation to the people that are here as legal citizens to make sure our house is in order before we take anyone else in. Like it or not, human beings use services. Legal or illegal. Illegal immigrants cost money through a variety of ways. They are also breaking the law. I am not some cold hearted monster. I totally understand why someone would want to come here and do not blame them. If I was a Mexican or a Cuban or whatever I would do anything to come here. Thing is we make it too easy to circumvent the standard process. Coming here illegally is insulting to everyone who has come here through the normal process. Furthermore, it is insulting to current citizens when we can't pay for education, healthcare, road repair, etc but we pay out the ass for services to people who are not here lawfully.

It is also sickening how people rationalize illegal immigration because it will increase the cost of American goods. I am sure cotton prices went up when we stopped having slavery, that doesn't mean slavery is a good thing. If paying people fair wages and having employers abide by labor laws and safety regulations means I have to pay $3 bucks for lettuce than so be it.

It is sad that in the year 2010 we are still practicing slavery in the form of paying an illegal $2 bucks an hour because Americans like cheap produce.

Side note, I really wonder if all the "liberal" Democrats would be ok with a hundred illegal immigrants living next to their houses in Nantucket or Martha's Vineyard.

Our elected leaders make me sick. Everyone is for Green Energy until wind turbines are going to spoil their ocean view and then they kill it. Political pandering makes me sick. Obama is against this law in Arizona, trying to make is sound like he is the savior of Mexican rights when in all actuality the Federal government, under his Presidency, is deporting more people than ever before. Arizona is just calling attention to the fact that our borders are wide open. The President is just kicking up dust, trying to smoke screen his actions. Unfortunately for him people are actually supporting measures like this.

 
AnthonyD1982:

It is also sickening how people rationalize illegal immigration because it will increase the cost of American goods. I am sure cotton prices went up when we stopped having slavery, that doesn't mean slavery is a good thing. If paying people fair wages and having employers abide by labor laws and safety regulations means I have to pay $3 bucks for lettuce than so be it.

It is sad that in the year 2010 we are still practicing slavery in the form of paying an illegal $2 bucks an hour because Americans like cheap produce.

I agree, this argument isn't legit. In fact, I think its pointless. If people wanted lower costs for goods, then they should ask the US government to stop intervening in agriculture markets. We all have heard stories about US gov paying people not to farm. I don't have any raw data, but yeah, US gov is a major player in American agriculture, and I think the market manipulation created by the government through their involvment in agriculture has a far greater impact on prices than cheap labor costs. Again, I don't have hard numbers (at least right now), and this is just a thesis/brainstorm. Tell Uncle Sam to get rid of the price floor on milk, or to stop buying American corn to 'donate' abroad, and you'll see that prices could be much cheaper (and could probably support an increase in wages) than would otherwise be the case.

looking for that pick-me-up to power through an all-nighter?
 
<span class=keyword_link><a href=//www.wallstreetoasis.com/finance-dictionary/what-is-london-interbank-offer-rate-libor>LIBOR</a></span>:
AnthonyD1982:

It is also sickening how people rationalize illegal immigration because it will increase the cost of American goods. I am sure cotton prices went up when we stopped having slavery, that doesn't mean slavery is a good thing. If paying people fair wages and having employers abide by labor laws and safety regulations means I have to pay $3 bucks for lettuce than so be it.

It is sad that in the year 2010 we are still practicing slavery in the form of paying an illegal $2 bucks an hour because Americans like cheap produce.

I agree, this argument isn't legit. In fact, I think its pointless. If people wanted lower costs for goods, then they should ask the US government to stop intervening in agriculture markets. We all have heard stories about US gov paying people not to farm. I don't have any raw data, but yeah, US gov is a major player in American agriculture, and I think the market manipulation created by the government through their involvment in agriculture has a far greater impact on prices than cheap labor costs. Again, I don't have hard numbers (at least right now), and this is just a thesis/brainstorm. Tell Uncle Sam to get rid of the price floor on milk, or to stop buying American corn to 'donate' abroad, and you'll see that prices could be much cheaper (and could probably support an increase in wages) than would otherwise be the case.

Not to mention the taxes that the legal citizens would pay on their wages that would add to the coffers and the reduced amount of public services that would be used by said taxpayers because they would figure out that the services aren't actually free.

I have no clue if they would entirely offset, but have heard/been told that there would be a net gain if the $2 an hour illegals were $10 an hour legals picking berries because of the increase in tax revenues (income, sales, property, etc).

Regards

"The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant, it's just that they know so much that isn't so." - Ronald Reagan
 

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