Laid off in May; at my wits end
I am at a loss for what to do. I know it's primarily related to the pandemic, but I am at my wits end. After 4 years of working 100+ hour weeks, and not taking a single vacation since graduation (seriously), I am absolutely losing everything, including hope, which initially coming from a non-target was something I never had a shortage of.
I was laid off in May due to COVID-19 impacting deal flow. I have been able to secure a few interviews since but have not been able to actualize any opportunities. I'm an Associate 1 and it appears as though there is very little hiring going on at the Associate level; although this seems to have picked up a bit over the past few weeks.
With NYC rent and COBRA (1.2k a month) to pay, I have evaporated my savings and nearly my 401k, as I've still been unable to get a cent from unemployment due to delays. Bankruptcy might become a necessity at some point.
How fucked am I? I apologize for sounding so jaded, but right now, I am.
Every recruiter I speak with, or firm I interview with, praises my background and experience, but there seemingly is a brick wall I can't break through right now. This probably is driven in part by the virus and the current hiring environment, but I am at my wits end and honestly today I ran the numbers and couldn't believe that everything I slaved over could disappear so quickly.
I spent a decade between college and my career, and due to an idiosyncratic event it has dissipated, and I fear with every week so does the probability of landing another position in IB. I've interviewed for a few interesting Corp Dev. Jobs but those processes are moving slowly.
- Is my career in IB over after 4 months on the bench?
- Would I be a complete idiot if I get an MBA just to go back into IB as an Associate?
- Are there any headhunters people would kindly recommend?
Any advice or words of motivation would be greatly appreciated.
1. No, your career in IB isn't over unless you give up. 4 months isn't forever but I wouldn't ever give up if that's what you want to do...you may just have to take a bit of a detour which is fine to pay the bills Corp dev, fine, but what about any finance roll that will pay anything...even at a $60k base salary you can stop the bleeding and keep looking.
2. Yes, you would be an idiot to get an MBA, especially if it stays remote for next year...I'd wait for clarity on that as it is a lot of $ and could put your (further?) in debt
3. Headhunters have plenty of candidates nowadays and not enough roles... what you need to be doing is networking like a maniac and just leveling with people. You can say, "look, deal flow dried up where I was and I was laid off but I have great deal experience and I'm willing to come in and hit the ground running as a 3rd year analyst as needed. I can train the interns, I can run deals, I can do grunt work as needed"
So a few questions for you.
1. How many of your applications/interviews have come from warm intros vs online resume drops?
2. Are you willing to move? outside of very few reasons you should be willing to move. I was forced to move back to NY from Boston when I was laid off to stay in PE even though I didn't want to, I knew it was the right career move to give me options later
3. Run a search here on WSO...all the usual names. We have a new role actually going up soon that you might be a great fit for so make sure to keep an eye on that (should actually hit today)...I think it's an IB associate role for a boutique if I remember correctly
If you are not just applying online and you are getting interview through netowrking/warm intros, just KEEP DOING THAT but it needs to be at least 40hrs/week, or better 60hrs/week like you did in your full time job.
Good luck!
Patrick
Patrick - I appreciate the detailed reply.
1. How many of your applications/interviews have come from warm intros vs online resume drops? I've been surprisingly fortunate with online resume drops, I'd say its about 65% online drops, 35% warm intros.
2. Are you willing to move? outside of very few reasons you should be willing to move. I was forced to move back to NY from Boston when I was laid off to stay in PE even though I didn't want to, I knew it was the right career move to give me options later - yes, however a lot of firms seem to be skeptical since I relocated to NYC from SF about a year ago.
3. Run a search here on WSO...all the usual names. We have a new role actually going up soon that you might be a great fit for so make sure to keep an eye on that (should actually hit today)...I think it's an IB associate role for a boutique if I remember correctly - thank you for the heads up! I'll be sure to keep an eye on it.
just went live: https://www.wallstreetoasis.com/jobs/ib-associate BUT I dont trust with our major migration that the APIs are talking properly with our ATS system. So you can apply but if you get a bug, just try on Thurs again (and please let me know). We're not promoting it until likely this Friday anyways...
Great, thorough advice by Patrick... just have to be tenacious and relentless (without being annoying/inconsiderate) with your job search.
Keep at it and something will come up. There will be hiring and it will be tough but there are slots open. Warm intros are the best and be assertive in networking as much as is polite/reasonable, and be grateful and thankful to the people that help you out during this time. Nobody has to help you it's all their goodwill and so be sure to appreciate that and don't forget the favor.
From a cash flow perspective - it seems like you haven't had much saved after 4 years of banking, which is fine, everyone has different circumstances and stories - but work to reduce your fixed opex as much as possible. Do not file for bankruptcy, do not take a random job just to pay the bills (unless its a finance job that will be something you can put on your resume). Get rid of COBRA. That's 10x the cost of obamacare. The cheapest plan in New York is like $178/month. You're a young person, unless you have some pre-existing conditions, there's no need for you to be paying $1.2k a month for healthcare. Move out of your apartment and live in a deeper part of Queens / New Jersey or wherever where the rent is much cheaper. Why? Because you're on the beach and don't have to commute to work everyday. All interviews are pretty much remote and even if they're not, you have time to travel to the interviews. You have to do this ASAP. Don't dip into your 401(k) and stuff. Make these changes now and stop bleeding all this carry for no reason.
Thank you for the advice - I'm going all-in and intend to be resilient as hell, today has just been a rough one.
Appreciate the advice re: COBRA; unfortunately I do have pre-existing conditions, but I can likely save a good ~$500 a month by switching. I'll be taking your advice there.4
I did have a decent amount saved as I explained in another post in this thread.
One question - why do you say not to take a job in the interim? I have been getting conflicting advice on this.
why are you paying rent? aren't there eviction moratoriums in place (where you can't be evicted, and your credit can't take a hit for not paying rent)
agree, COBRA is more than you need..you should be able to find an Affordable Care Act plan for under $600/month
checkout Anthem NY..i think they have a reasonable plan.
i'm surprised you have nothing saved after working IB for 4 years....i would expect you to have 100k-200k saved at a minimum.
Why aren't you living at home with parents to cut down on expenses until you get your next job?
I made a deal with the building when I got laid off that they'd shave 5 months off the lease term if I stayed current in payments and now I'm out of the lease at the end of September. My building had a pretty ridiculous rent termination fee (2 months rent + $5,500). It basically ended up being a wash. I could've chosen not to pay due to the eviction moratoriums but honestly didn't expect to be out of work this long.
Unfortunately, I do have pre-existing conditions so I'll have to get a bit more of an expensive plan - but it is definitely cheaper than COBRA so thank you for that advice. Will save a few hundred a month.
I had a decent amount saved - but a medical condition with one of my parents when they were out of work in 2019 without insurance drained about ~$50,000. I had about ~$30,000 saved prior to being cut in May (moved banks, different bonus cycles, so I didn't get paid my annual bonus in July)
I am going to be moving in with my father until I land my next seat at the end of this month.
yup...i lived at home with parents for a year when i was between jobs.
also, unemployment for may, june, july should pay you 400 +600 = 1000/week for 12 weeks (so, 12k), then 400+300 = 700/week for the last month.
make sure you hound the unemployment office to get your benefits asap
Keep hustling man. Deal flow has been ramping up and more people are getting burnt out with wfh so there should be a need for experienced junior associates.
Are you international and require a visa? This could be the reason why.
What type of firm were you at before?
I'm seeing BBs up hiring right now(have had some reach out about lateral moves). There is an uptick, so don't give up now.
Be willing to move as well.
Hang in there, lots of people having similar issues.
Sending you a DM
Also in similar shoes. Do you mind sharing which BBs are hiring?
Hey man, nothing to add but I hope everything gets better for you soon!
I would look into government contractor jobs, they’re always hiring regardless of economic imbalance. Most government entities have secured funding so I don’t see a furlough happening in the unforeseen future.
I’ve also seen a couple Corporate FP&A analyst positions open up recently that you might want to look into. Keep your head up man, apply to whatever you can.
Lesson to kids: this is why you don’t break your back for any company.
No vacation for 4 years. Hundred+ hours a week. Look what capital it gets you: fucking nothing. Your company will still drop you the second they want to. Work smart, not hard.
No slight towards you OP btw. Best of luck in your situation - I hope you get back on your feet ASAP.
Really wish someone told me this earlier too
hope things get better for you :)
Comment deleted - addressed by another post above.
Good luck man. I would try to not sweat this too much, and keep things in perspective.
You've been out of a job for just 4 months, during the biggest period of unemployment in US history.
You have savings in the bank. And absolutely NO ONE is going to look down on you for losing your job during COVID.
hit the gym, then go to sleep. Keep gyming until your a muscle man
Did you say you're running out of money? How is that possible with 4 years of work
I covered this above in more detail -
"I had a decent amount saved - but a medical condition with one of my parents when they were out of work in 2019 without insurance drained about ~$50,000. I had about ~$30,000 saved prior to being cut in May (moved banks, different bonus cycles, so I didn't get paid my annual bonus in July)"
lol stop being a bitch and pick yourself up. Coming onto an online forum for sympathy like thats pathetic bruv.
You. Are. A. Dick. I am not the OP, but it's incredibly unsympathetic and cruel of you to say something like that. I wish that may God hit you with misery of more epic proportions than you and your family can bear.
You. Are. A. Dick. I am not the OP, but it's incredibly unsympathetic and cruel of you to say something like that. I wish that may God hit you with misery of more epic proportions than you and your family can bear.
shut the fuck up ofc a dumb cuck like you would wish misery on a persons family. Go give him money then since you feel so bad. LMAO. This is such an egotistical board like shut the fuck up and get on with it. "Associate in PE", you're just a corporate bitch
Hey man. Here is my advice. Take a breath. Relax. Yes its tough but just realized its not your fault and their are millions in your shoes right now. Even Jamie Dimon was fired before becoming CEO of JPM. My suggestion is to stop negative cash flow is the possibility of leaving your lease. Do you have folks you can stay with? Keep applying. The problem with jobs is that there are many candidates per open position now. Don't feel down when HR or the recruiter doesnt reach back out. You have to realize no company wants to hire someone and then let them go. They are all analyzing the future. These decisions take time. I have also had multiple interviews where they love my resume, but I dont know when I'll hear back either. Times are tough and companies take their time for decisions. Try to move out of the city if you can. Landlords are rather willing to break leases right now than deal with tenants that dont pay. Trust me. You can up and leave the city.
I got out! My lease ends on Monday. Thank you for the advice. I hope I'm able to rebound and get back to where I was.
Call SLA and tell them lubar sent you. I knew him from Michael Page days. [Recruiter]
https://www.linkedin.com/company/simon-lewis-associates-executive-searc…
Amazing coincidence, I actually have a call lined up with them for later this week.
I'm super curious to know what your expense looks like. I'm on an analyst salary (recently married and newborn). I'm all in at about $40-50k a year in expense. $30-40k (401k included) saved a year, so your expense must be crazy over the years. I purchased (1) 3 unit property / (1) 6 unit property with friends during COVID and it's generating a 20% annual return (~$2k monthly). I would expect most people in IB to have a high level of financial literacy and take advantage of these recession. I think you need to rethink your spending habit. $5.5k in rent is honestly very high for just 1 person, I come from NYC and I know you can get away with $1.5k per bedroom.
you managed to purchase both a 3-unit and a 6-unit property on an analyst salary? Also how is it possible to generate a 20% return, that would imply the property value is 110k?
Correct. Total purchase price of ~$1MM ($800k on 6 unit / $200k on 3 unit). Joint investment with 2 other business partner (people I knew since middle school). My equity is ~$100k ($30k a year in savings / wife's family chip in ~$40k). Cap rate of the property is ~12%. Leverage 3x with 30 year amort on the loans. Actual ROI is ~22%, but decide to give up 2% as management fee for 1 of my business partner (operating partner). Solid return of ~20% a year, Property fully renovated / new so, very low maintenance capex.
I covered this above in more detail but the brief summary is -
"I had a decent amount saved - but a medical condition with one of my parents when they were out of work in 2019 without insurance drained about ~$50,000. I had about ~$30,000 saved prior to being cut in May (moved banks, different bonus cycles, so I didn't get paid my annual bonus in July)"
I also sent $1,000 a month back to one of my parents throughout my entire career, as they are divorced. Some people can identify me off of this information, but please refrain.
1. How about a switch to restructuring? There's a bull market there, or there's about to be, and at the associate level, a lot of the skills you already have are transferable.
2. Have you reached out to every person at every client you ever worked with, no matter how junior, about internal corp dev, FP&A or related roles? Fortune favors the person who picks up the phone and uses it.
Not at all an "I told you so", as your help to your ailing parent(s) was incredibly noble, but this is a valuable lesson for junior bankers about the fleeting nature of "lucrative" IB jobs. They can disappear at any second. There are way too many people out there who think that a first year analyst job = clear path to MD, buyside riches, the C suite, or some other source of source of independent wealth. It's a dangerous myth. Live below your means...
I'm open to moving into restructuring but have not gained much traction. This week seems to be going much better with leads at a few different banks and corporates.
I have reached out to many, but not all. Pretty much everyone I have had a good relationship with.
You're 100% right about how fleeting success can be. I don't regret for a second blowing pretty much everything I saved up until that point on my mothers medical care; now I can only hope and network as hard as possible into landing another strong role in the industry.
I can't get laid off cuz I don't get laid
I want to thank everyone who has provided advice so far! I will try to reply to as many questions as I can.
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