Late career start / does being a little older work against me

dinoRE's picture
Rank: Orangutan | 296

i was wondering what peoples opinions are on candidates that are a few years older then the rest of the candidates... for example, a 26/27 year old applying for an analyst position.

i have a year or so experience with multifamily valuations and I'm looking into applying for an acquisition analyst or a lending analyst position. The thing is though i got a late start in real estate and don't really have deals under my belt. Does being 26/27 years old hurt my chances for these positions? is it a negative, positive or neutral?

Comments (199)

Jul 6, 2016

Totally neutral. Your career is going to be 35-50+ years, and people understand that you didn't know you wanted to be in real estate when you were coming out of college. This is a world where high school history teachers can wind up as principals in huge firms. I literally saw a dumpster catch on fire right as a company was showing up to start their due diligence, I've seen meth labs, SWAT raids, dead bodies; so a 27-year-old analyst isn't going to shock anyone.

Or you could just not advertise your age...

Jul 6, 2016

The age give away is due to me putting the year i graduated from college on my resume.

Jul 6, 2016

I mean theoretically, you have work experience at the top of your resume with education below. Is there any need to put the date of graduation on there? As a non-HR person, I would never notice.

  • Anonymous Monkey
  •  Jul 9, 2016

Completely agree. I'm had a major career change at 31, which I was an Analyst. Def not the only one I work with at the same age and level.

Jul 6, 2016

Broad brush - it depends on how traditionally-structured any given platform is. Example, major life cos' investment divisions typically have formalized analyst programs where they recruit graduating seniors right out of college, so you're 99% not likely to get into say Prudential's CRE debt group's analyst program. That said, the case is strong that most real estate firms (equity, debt, developers, operators) typically don't have a) formalized analyst recruiting programs, instead hiring on an as-needed basis, or b) formalized analyst training programs, meaning they're often hiring off-cycle, targeting people that already have a little experience. Weirdly enough, even BB CMBS groups often do this. I've seen plenty of analysts at different shops in their mid/late-20s that came over from appraisers, rating agencies, brokerage, underwriting support, etc. It's not uncommon. To your question - is it a negative, positive, or neutral - obviously it precludes you from more structured platforms, and you should have your story well polished, but in your case, turn your experience into an advantage, e.g. try and get in with an apartment developer, an agency lender, etc.

Jul 9, 2016

Are you PHD candidate?

Jul 9, 2016

No, and I'm not sure if I'm going to be one. If it's 3 or 4 years ago I would say yes, but now? not sure.

Jul 9, 2016

Nope

I got friends who got ER jobs at 27-28-29.

There are many countries where college takes 6 or 7 years, 8 with graduate school.

Jul 9, 2016

No way are you too old, and you'll find the odd mature analyst in every bank.

But just bear in mind that if you are joining a BB as an analyst, it might be 6 years before you have time to be making babies - or even finding time to meet the mother!

Jul 9, 2016
rodneymullen:

No way are you too old, and you'll find the odd mature analyst in every bank.

But just bear in mind that if you are joining a BB as an analyst, it might be 6 years before you have time to be making babies - or even finding time to meet the mother!

All it takes is 2 or 3 minutes to make it happen.

Jul 9, 2016

Thanks for all the answers.

Well I guess I was a bit drunk when posting this.

Jul 6, 2016

I think as long as you express a willingness to put your head down and work hard, do whatever it takes to ramp up, etc. and show humility - shouldn't matter. Ultimately, firms are looking for hard working, competent, and reliable people who are interested in doing the work they need to do.

Jul 7, 2016
nycapuchin:

I think as long as you express a willingness to put your head down and work hard, do whatever it takes to ramp up, etc. and show humility - shouldn't matter. Ultimately, firms are looking for hard working, competent, and reliable people who are interested in doing the work they need to do.

Agreed, I'm 28 and interning at a large bank this summer. Just work hard and don't be arrogant and I can't imagine most places will take issue with your age.

Jul 7, 2016
jon1987:

Agreed, I'm 28 and interning at a large bank this summer. Just work hard and don't be arrogant and I can't imagine most places will take issue with your age.

28 year old summer associate at a multifamily developer checking in. Age doesn't matter.

Hell, it could be a positive if anything. 28 year old me is far more mature, hard working, insightful, experienced, adept at office politics, etc. than 23 year old me.

Jul 7, 2016
nycapuchin:

I think as long as you express a willingness to put your head down and work hard, do whatever it takes to ramp up, etc. and show humility - shouldn't matter. Ultimately, firms are looking for hard working, competent, and reliable people who are interested in doing the work they need to do.

Jul 9, 2016

Not too old

Jul 9, 2016

I started at 36. An MBA is your most likely path to shirt from corporates.

Jul 9, 2016

Not too old

Jul 8, 2016

I already asked this question from my friend who teaches Economics and Finance at a top BB school. He mentioned age is not necessarily a factor, and it depends on the role. He is waiting til his late 30's to 40's before joining a firm, as he receives offers daily.

Just keep your head up high, maintain a strong work ethic, and you'll be set. Don't let the politics get to you, age is only a number.

Jul 9, 2016

What do you mean interview bitchfest??

It sounds like you got very lucky that they would even consider you since you just showed up at their door. You failed the test and they ended the interview process, What were they supposed to do, give you cookies, pat you on the head, and say "it's OK, that test was very hard, I'm sure you'll get it next time" This is the real world and your supposed to have two years of experience, shut up and move on.

Jul 9, 2016

24 is definitely not too old.

More than likely, the reason they told you that your test score was insufficient was because the score you got on the test was insufficient.

Jul 9, 2016

You failed the test...no big deal, you should be proud to have even gotten in the door since you pulled a really aggressive move by just showing up. Use that same determination going forward and I'm sure you'll be fine.

Jul 9, 2016

No, no, see the point is that I'll never know if I failed the test or not. My guess is that they just threw the test out since they didn't want to see me anyway. Or....I'm a complete paranoid.

Best guess though, probably both are true.

Jul 9, 2016

Also, I'm just really pissed at everything at the moment and needed someone to vent upon. WSO is my source, my go to friend in times of dire need.

Basically I use anonymous message boards to direct my impotent rage.

Jul 9, 2016

Listen dude. Companies can't discriminate based on age. Sue them. Try get some e-mail or phone recorded evidence.

Jul 9, 2016

This thread is depressing.

Jul 9, 2016

This is not the first nor the last time this happens to someone, dealing with jerk HR recruiters. Getting a job nowadays is like dating, you have so much to look forward to at first but then you realize all the BS you have to deal with in the process to get something. Just don't take it personally and you'll be fine.

Jul 9, 2016

Well, I'm starting to feel like the fat girl at the prom, but maybe it will get better. If anyone needs me I'll be in my bunk.

Jul 9, 2016
monkeysama:

Well, I'm starting to feel like the fat girl at the prom, but maybe it will get better. If anyone needs me I'll be in my bunk.

Fat girls are some of the biggest sluts. If you are a fat girl and want to get action at the prom, don't try to copy hot girls' behavior - nobody wants a sad fattie with an attitude. Be easy, be likeable, and be discreet.

More is good, all is better

Jul 9, 2016
monkeysama:

Well, I'm starting to feel like the fat girl at the prom, but maybe it will get better. If anyone needs me I'll be in my bunk.

Actually, if age were indeed a factor, you'd be the slutty girl's older boyfriend that doesn't get allowed a guest pass because he's over 20 and could legally show up with a BAL greater than zero.

Jul 9, 2016

You problem is that you didnt pass the test, not that you are old. Get over it dude.

This thread has sand in its vagina.

Jul 9, 2016

You failed the test. Don't think into it any more than that. You can look for external excuses or you can actually try to figure out what went wrong.

Jul 9, 2016

Whatever. They can suck me anyway - their test had nothing to do with trading anywho, just a filter to cut the number of applicants they have because they're probably swamped. They still treated me like crap though, and so a pox on their house and so on and so forth.

Jul 9, 2016

Eh....I'm not bitter when I go out to meet potential employees. I'm just pissing and moaning here because it's an anonymous way to bitch. Kudos to whoever gave me a -1 by the way, you sad fuck.

Jul 9, 2016

You are only 24, spend a year beefing up your credentials, go to grad school, work for a non-profit, volunteer with Peace Corps, etc etc then come back and try again. If you think trading would be neat, try to build a trading portfolio, play with your money for a year, then use that as a selling point to prove you would make a good trader (assuming you do well with your own money). You aren't entitled to a top 2% income.

Not to be negative towards you, but my first thought upon hearing your whining was thank g I don't work with this guy. You need an attitude adjustment, because if this is your regular outlook on life and you think you can just hide it in the interview, chances are, you aren't as good at that as you think.

More is good, all is better

Jul 9, 2016

I'm not guaranteed jackshit - no one is. But what the fuck is that supposed to mean anyway? I'm willing to bust my balls and I'm more than qualified. Doing some bullshit for awhile isn't going to do anything except make me older - the only good suggestion here is to get a grad degree, which I might have to do. Further the problem with playing with my own money should be clear - I don't have any. The money I have would have to be leveraged to the hilt and one bad day and I'm screwed. The trade ideas I have are maybe 100, 200 basis points tops so I need some capital to start.

Jul 9, 2016

And again, this is a bitch thread for me. So if you don't want to hear my bitching don't read it I guess. I don't know.

Jul 9, 2016

Nice.....I would totally be that dude. Complete creepo

Jul 9, 2016

You don't actually expect anyone to be psychic and know (or care) what exactly you need?
The suggestions just cover the spectrum of what might be lacking - knowledge, brand name, network, interesting personality, etc etc.

Why would you need to leverage? I'm pretty sure an interviewer isn't going to say "oops, your trading volume is less than X, next". The point would be to show that you have good ideas and that you are able to generate return using your method, not to flash your cash.
If you don't trust your own ability and aren't willing to put your money where your mouth is, why should someone else?

More is good, all is better

Jul 9, 2016
Argonaut:

You don't actually expect anyone to be psychic and know (or care) what exactly you need?
The suggestions just cover the spectrum of what might be lacking - knowledge, brand name, network, interesting personality, etc etc.

Why would you need to leverage? I'm pretty sure an interviewer isn't going to say "oops, your trading volume is less than X, next". The point would be to show that you have good ideas and that you are able to generate return using your method, not to flash your cash.
If you don't trust your own ability and aren't willing to put your money where your mouth is, why should someone else?

Umm ya, there are very few (if any) respected prop firms that are purely speculating on market moves. That isn't their business. In fact, people that do that tend to do it with other people's money (at a hedge fund or something along those lines) because of the inherent risk.

Jul 9, 2016

monkey what college did you go to ?

Jul 9, 2016
blastoise:

monkey what college did you go to ?

Illinois

If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses - Henry Ford

Jul 9, 2016

You don't get it. 100 basis points is 1 percent. I would have been buying and holding Irish bonds this week if I had leverage up to 400,000 because 1 percent is 4,000 if the bond yield devalues by 100 bs pts. But on 1000 dollars the return I would see is 10 bucks and the risk wouldn't be worth it to me. Plus, I can learn on the companies money just fine, and if my good days offset my bad, I could be a good trader. One bad day with my own capital and I'm out on the street since I don't have a lot to begin with.

Are you in this business or are you still in college?

Jul 9, 2016
monkeysama:

You don't get it. 100 basis points is 1 percent. I would have been buying and holding Irish bonds this week if I had leverage up to 400,000 because 1 percent is 4,000 if the bond yield devalues by 100 bs pts. But on 1000 dollars the return I would see is 10 bucks and the risk wouldn't be worth it to me. Plus, I can learn on the companies money just fine, and if my good days offset my bad, I could be a good trader. One bad day with my own capital and I'm out on the street since I don't have a lot to begin with.

Are you in this business or are you still in college?

Hey sorry, if my post came across aggressive, was just trying to come up with helpful solutions for you.
I guess from personal experience, it took me a while to start investing and trading , and to get comfortable, for several months I had a fantasy league portfolio - i would pick stocks, record the date and amount "bought", then "sell" and "reinvest" into stock with (in my opinion) better upside. Helped me refine my strategy and get pissed off about waiting so long to make money with money.
Maybe, if you aren't comfortable playing with your lunch money, that could be something to help you defend and justify your strategy, instead of whine "Well, if you let me learn with your money, i could do ok"

if i were you, skilled and self-assured, on the day of interview i'd pick several stocks/bonds/whatever is the cornerstone of your game, and make a prediction on them, print it out, and hand it to the interviewer, if at the end he/she didn't say "You're hired". If you are right, it would be impressive, if you are wrong - oh well, it's not like they rescinded an offer because of it, and they might still be impressed with your ballsiness.

I'm not in trading business, but i've graduated college :)

More is good, all is better

Jul 9, 2016

Here's my resume blastoise: https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid=explorer&ch...
Also, sorry if the above was a little mean, I didn't mean it to be.

Jul 9, 2016
monkeysama:

Here's my resume blastoise: https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid=explorer&ch...
Also, sorry if the above was a little mean, I didn't mean it to be.

Cool educational background for sure. I wish my undergrad had allowed for triple majors :/

Jul 9, 2016

IMO drop the LSAT. Your SAT is solid (list 1410/1600 to avoid confusion btw), so the LSAT just makes you look like someone who has no clue what they want to do, esp given that you are changing careers.

Jul 9, 2016

"I'm more than qualified"

if you failed test not only are you not "more than qualified" your not even "qualified"

Jul 9, 2016

sounds like optivers interview. amiright

Jul 9, 2016

Be patient, they do like fresh graduates.
But I am sure they would not turn you down if you are really exceptional in the test. So you should keep searching and make yourself more qualified.

Jul 9, 2016

It looks like a good resume but far from "over-qualified". I don't even see why you want to be a trader and why you qualify from your resume. Think about International Mathematics Olympiad winners, intel competition winners or IVY undergraduates with extremely good GPAs. That is what most of the trading firms are looking for. If you are not among them then you better have a really good story to show your desire and it has to be shown in your resume.

Jul 9, 2016

So I guess the consensus is that I'm an asshole. Fair enough, I've had enough people tell me it that it's probably true. Who am I to argue with the body politic.

Anyway, just got rejected from another firm. Back to the drawing board, again.

Jul 9, 2016
monkeysama:

So I guess the consensus is that I'm an asshole. Fair enough, I've had enough people tell me it that it's probably true. Who am I to argue with the body politic.

Anyway, just got rejected from another firm. Back to the drawing board, again.

I may be wrong, but my perception of the consensus was that you are not as qualified as you think, not that you are an asshole. The good news is that you have found room for improvement.

More is good, all is better

Jul 9, 2016

wheat question they ask ?

Jul 9, 2016

I'm sorry blastoise, what are you asking?

Jul 9, 2016

can u give us sample questions you got asked please

Jul 9, 2016

It was literally answer 80 mental math questions in 8 minutes. For example, 12.666 / 2.125 (so basic arithmetic) . You weren't allowed to write on the exam so you just filled in the scantron. I think I answered 60 odd questions, but I had a feeling they were really peeved that I had bothered to show up. I got a 4 minute warning, a two minute warning, and a one minute warning and each time it took me maybe 10 seconds or so to recover and another 20 to pick up steam again.

I'm pretty positive that I answered them all correct, but I never was shown my results. Just told I didn't pass.

Jul 9, 2016

could u use a calclluator ?

Jul 9, 2016

No.

I guess I'm a little confused about the rational behind the test. If you need to make those kinds of calculations that quick then it sounds like you're just mainlining speed and dipping in and out of the market every five minutes. I was thinking that their trading strategy was a little more informed than that. I took Kumon courses too.....when I was five. My best guess is that they have so many applicants they need a way to cut them down, even if the way they do it is random.

Ah well, fuck it. As has been eminently proven to me in this thread, no one likes sour grapes.

Jul 9, 2016
monkeysama:

No.

I guess I'm a little confused about the rational behind the test. If you need to make those kinds of calculations that quick then it sounds like you're just mainlining speed and dipping in and out of the market every five minutes. I was thinking that their trading strategy was a little more informed than that. I took Kumon courses too.....when I was five. My best guess is that they have so many applicants they need a way to cut them down, even if the way they do it is random.

Ah well, fuck it. As has been eminently proven to me in this thread, no one likes sour grapes.

rationale is probably the same as in GMAT - can you come up with shortcuts and solve the problems on the fly, instead of taking your sweet time and solving them like high school math teacher would have wanted - with all steps shown.

More is good, all is better

Jul 9, 2016

Monkeysama: I don't think you realize that IS exactly what you are doing as an option MM. Some of the mental math stuff is a bit more dated and more relevant to the pits, but the general themes still hold true for having good mental math skills and that quantitative mindset.

Jul 9, 2016
Jerome Marrow:

Monkeysama: I don't think you realize that IS exactly what you are doing as an option MM. Some of the mental math stuff is a bit more dated and more relevant to the pits, but the general themes still hold true for having good mental math skills and that quantitative mindset.

I'm not going to argue with you, because I'll take it as writ that you know your shit.

Jul 9, 2016

mental math is VERY important. if you arent comfortable with this, you will get destroyed at any respectable prop shop as the interview gets deeper, or even if you make it through and start getting into mock. This isn't something to be ashamed of or pissed off about, it isnt for everyone. So if you think youd do horribly in this type of setting, then option MMing is NOT for you. Most guys trading on the CBOE (minus maybe Timber HIll ;) )will crush you if you suck.

Jul 9, 2016

Well one aborted test under poor conditions does not a rule make. I'll just try harder and do better next time.

Jul 9, 2016

Psychometric testing is stupid. We get it for all the Banks here in the U.K. It's definitely not as hard as 80 questions in 8 minutes though.

Jul 8, 2016

My firm literally just hired a 35 year old associate, so I think you're good if you find the right company.

Jul 9, 2016

I would say no, and having served in the army can be used and leveraged to your absolute advantage. It opens up diversity recruitment opportunities.

Jul 9, 2016

There definitely is an age bias in the finance world, without a doubt. But is the age bias occuring at a mere 26? I would think not, more so in your 40s and up. If you haven't made MD by early 40s, you won't be making MD unless you get lucky going elsewhere.

Jul 9, 2016

I am a little bit behind the age curve, for different reasons, and have seen no such bias. Especially with your situation being in the military you should be fine as your story is crystal clear as to why you are starting later. You may get questions about how you would feel working for an associate who is your age/younger than you but as long as you can reasonably answer it you are fine.

Jul 9, 2016

At 26 years of age, you should be fine.
However, being on the wrong side of 40 years may expose you to some of this "bias". Every firm & desk is different & has their cultural quirks. Current supply of talent in the market also helps dictate...

Jul 9, 2016

Not a veteran, but I have to disagree a little bit with some of the posts on here. There is definitely an age bias on wall street. You would be interviewing for summer analyst positions between your junior and senior year (so 27 years old at this point). This means you would be typically answering to and getting assignments from at best 23-24 year old first or second year analyst. You'd even be older than some associates, which, regardless of what people have said here, will make people uncomfortable for lack of a better term.

Secondly, there will be questions about your personal life. Are you married, long-term significant other? That will definitely play a factor (not that it legally can, but it will). It is much easier to convince a 22 year old than a 27 year old to sign their life away for a summer, and then again for 2 years. I'm younger than that and have no long-term commitments, and my tolerance for working on bullshit assignments (a staple of finance) for countless hours has dropped significantly. People will take that into account too.

I'm not writing this to say that it can't be done or you shouldn't try; rather, to say that you're story has to be absolutely perfect. You have to completely sell your work ethic (military background helps here), and willingness to put up with bullshit assignments given to you by kids 4-5 years your junior.

Hope this helps

Best Response
Jul 9, 2016

1. "...you would be typically answering to and getting assignments from at best 23-24 year old first or second year analyst." He is already used to that: Lieutenants (and if he enlisted late, he is WAY used to this).

2. "...It is much easier to convince a 22 year old than a 27 year old to sign their life away for a summer..." Army Veteran: going to bet a minimum of one deployment in addition to multiple field ops. Again, at an absolute minimum. He is used to this.

3. "...and my tolerance for working on bullshit assignments (a staple of finance) for countless hours has dropped significantly." I will guarantee, literally guarantee, your highest tolerance for bullshit assignments is equivalent to his lowest. If you need proof of this, ask him the following: "What's the stupidest thing you've ever cleaned... more than once... and why?" Any finance related bullshit assignment is absolute small potatoes compared to the utter bullshit he has put up with in the Army.

All of the negative bullshit assignments, the long hours, etc. that come along with banking is right up a Veterans alley. Because they have already done exponentially worse... and here's the kicker... for WAY bigger dickheads, while receiving WAY less money.

It is nearly impossible to explain to anyone who hasn't served what it is like. Greatest times of your life... and the worst times... at the same time. Trust me... I was a Marine.

If this guy, or any Veteran, is academically smart, and can prove it via GPA and one-on-one communication, the truth is that he was made for the Street.

    • 2
Jul 9, 2016

Absolutely agree with your replies, and perhaps my answer was not worded correctly. I am not trying to knock this guy's ability at all or say that his experience in the military has not prepared him for wall street. Some of the most successful guys on Wall St. are veterans, so absolutely not saying that he can't hack it.

What I was trying to say is that, in my experience, Wall St. has an age bias. I have seen candidates (albeit not military candidates) get dinged because people questioned commitment, motivation, etc. Clearly, in his case clearly the military experience will help, and he can easily spin that experience to overcome any questions someone might have. I just don't want him to be surprised if those kind of objections come up.

Jul 9, 2016
Magilla:

I will guarantee, literally guarantee, your highest tolerance for bullshit assignments is equivalent to his lowest. If you need proof of this, ask him the following: "What's the stupidest thing you've ever cleaned... more than once... and why?" Any finance related bullshit assignment is absolute small potatoes compared to the utter bullshit he has put up with in the Army.

I'd like to confirm this. There is absolutely nothing in the corporate world that compares to the constant "hurry up and wait" lifestyle of a junior enlisted man.

In this particular dick-measuring contest, the 0311 lance corporal beats the sweatshop analyst every single time, and it's not even close.

Jul 9, 2016

Not sure what analyst-therapist is referring to but no one asked me questions about my dating life during my SA stint. I know someone who was 29 and there was never an issue, honestly if you dont mention your age openly it rarely comes up in conversation.

All they honestly care about is whether you can do the work and if you can get along with your co-workers.

Jul 9, 2016

Thanks so much for all the posts, guys. It's truly appreciated. Knowing that there's some of you guys out there that have been successful with very similar circumstances is fuel to redouble my efforts.

Jul 9, 2016

I graduated college in 5 years, worked for 2 and started over as a 1st year analyst to get into banking. I was a few years older than my class, and it didn't matter at all. If anything, it was better that I'd been in NYC two years longer...

Jul 9, 2016

I would say there is generally a noticable age bias but it doesn't hold true for all firms.

In the most recent recruiting cycle, I know of at least one instance where a new grad was hired over an experienced CPA for a 1st year analyst spot (CPA was willing to take no credit for 4+ years of work experience in order to break in).

On the other hand, we hired 2 analysts who are only a couple years younger than some of our MDs.

Jul 9, 2016

Age is not a problem. I'm a very late bloomer. I got my full time Analyst offer about a month ago, at the tender age of 34, and my first summer internship a year ago.

The thing that allowed me to break in is good grades, leadership experience, and spinning my past as a musician into a good story. The other important thing I have going for me is that I look, act, and have the attitude of a 25-year-old single guy.

I think your attitude and your "life stage" are key, not your age. I wrote off most of my 20s, and started from scratch. I met most of my current friends in undergrad. I had no issues when I was being interviewed by 23-year olds, because I saw them as potential mentors and peers, not bed-wetters.

The only factor that becomes an issue with age is that it becomes much harder to pull all-nighters in your 30s. Your biological hardware is your only limitation.

So, if you are going after a role normally occupied by 22-year-olds, have the mindset of a 22-year-old -- or in your case, be like a fresh Private and accept the ultimate authority and guidance of your new, young-faced, Sargents.

Jul 9, 2016

Not an issue at all.. as a USMC Vet at a BB, I've gotten nothing but respect from people. Being a Vet is a huge advantage and was the aspect that got me the initial interview. Remember, you're not coming in older you are coming in with experience, it's the truth and you need to make sure to sell that. The 'stress' is nothing compared to a legit deployment.

Jul 9, 2016

One vet I worked with (was an associate) in banking got his ass handed to him one day for a simple / dumb mistake. Anyone else in his shoes would've had an existential breakdown, but he was cool with what happened and went back to work. I checked in with him later (we're hommies) and he was like "yeah that sucked balls, but if I had make a mistake like that in Astan, it'd mean either myself or worse one on my guys is dead. Here, just make up another draft, do better and move on, no big deal."

Jul 9, 2016

I'm sure there are some pretentious assholes in NYC that would that would hold your age against you if you come in as an analyst, but I'd say they're minority. I mean, it's not like you were dicking around following Phish around the US for +5 years, you were serving our country. In Houston, vets are welcomed enthusiastically.

In my group during recruiting, if you had +3.3 from a respected school and +4 yrs of service in the Marines/Army/Navy/Air Force (in that order), your resume would go straight to the short list. In fact we hired two vets one year, both around your age as interns. One of the guys was staffed with me for the majority of the summer, he had multiple deployments to Iraq / Astan as a Marine, was ~27, had a wife and kid and I oversaw his work / was senior to him. It worked out great, I treated him with as much respect as I could and even though he'd likely killed people in combat didn't have a problem asking for help or taking correction when he fucked up.

JPM now also has an analyst program specifically for folks I just described. So, sure you may encounter some age discrimination, but most people don't care long as you do your job well and are looking to help vets break in were they can.

Jul 9, 2016

Like people before me said, army is always an advantage. However, some firms have biases and others don't. You will probably have better rapport with the ones that don't.

Jul 8, 2016

Agree with what everyone mentioned above. Age shouldn't hold u back save for some bs HR screening stuff. Even then, having a late start in RE isn't a ding by any means, especially if you already have MF experience.

Jul 9, 2016

Well you are way late into the game. My advice is to look for search funds or lower boutique shops to intern for and then rebrand yourself with a mba or msf.

I would advise a mba

Jul 9, 2016

It sounds like you need to figure out what you want. Project management, business analysis, investment banking, operations, corporate strategy, and human capital management are all significantly different from each other. You need to focus your search on one and walk that path instead of chasing all of them at once. At this point in your career, I doubt you can get into IB without a MBA.

Jul 9, 2016

Why do you want to switch? As others have said, those are very different roles. Are you just throwing shit at the wall to see what well-paying jobs stick?

If you tell us what you are looking for and why, people can probably be of more help. I can think of quite a few careers which are better suited for your background and are not present on your list.

Jul 9, 2016

I've had former VPs/MDs in banking who came from research.

They did their PhDs in medicine, engineering, whatever and were in those professions for many years (oldest being 65, and other ages varied between late 20s into early 40s). Afterwards, they moved into the research field through connections (most of them didn't have MBAs).

After spending some time in research, they moved into banking for the "lucrative pay."

So no, its not too late and you aren't too old. I don't know the answers to your remaining questions, but the aforementioned bankers didn't come into research as 1st year research associates making $60k/yr, they came in at more senior levels.

I'm making it up as I go along.

I'm making it up as I go along.

Jul 9, 2016

they always need fresh blood in ER
even the ones in their early thirties

but when the going gets tough, remember that there will always be another monkey ready to kill to get your job

Jul 9, 2016

No your not too old. Unlike IB and S&T, in ER you can market your expertise you developed in a certain industry and use that as a stepping stone. I've met associates who went the nontraditional path and lateraled in. You'll most likely start as an associate. I don't know what the pay is like in Canada but I know base as an associate in ER in the IS was 90-100K last year.

Jul 9, 2016

Sorry kid, you just don't have what it takes.

I like money

Jul 9, 2016

be more explicit , because of age ?

Jul 9, 2016

I THINK COLIN POWELL BROKE INTO PRIVATE EQUITY DURING HIS FIFTIES OR LATER.

YOU JUST HAVE TO MAKE SURE YOU'RE DOING SOMETHING IMPRESSIVE AND YOU ALWAYS HAVE A SHOT. NOTHING YOU HAVE DESCRIBED SOUNDS LIKE A COMPELLING REASON TO HIRE YOU, SO PLEASE ELABORATE.

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Jul 9, 2016

Dick, your facade crumbles each time you lower yourself to this caliber of thread.

Jul 9, 2016

Beavis broke in at 52

Jul 9, 2016

I'm still in my undergrad

thanks for your answers

Jul 9, 2016

I have a really low opinion of people who say that they have a 'passion for making a lot of money.' Indicates your life doesn't have any purpose if that's your utmost goal.

If you chase your passions and what truly interests you, money will follow (unless you're doing nonprofit work). Even for hedge fund managers/analysts, where their job is to make money, all the ones I've met love learning about the market, analyzing companies, understanding why there's a mispricing, etc first and foremost. For the majority of them, money and returns seem to be a yardstick to measure their investing acumen rather than being the end game.

Jul 9, 2016

A guy I graduated with a few weeks ago got a boutique IB analyst offer. He's 25+ years old. So I guess anything is possible

Jul 9, 2016

if you are a solid player then no....

Jul 9, 2016

I am in a similar position as you age wise. Been trying to get into a sales or trading role but have struggled and I feel my window is closing as I keep getting older

Jul 9, 2016

There are no real age limits. I know guys who started in IB and consultancy in their early thirties and they are now killing it. Push hard and you'll achieve your goals.

Jul 9, 2016

I started at an execution-only desk at 26, entered a S&T traineeship at 27 and started as a trader at 28. Age matters but not a lot, though I am considered old for a junior trader. I think the current economic climate favors people that are a bit older than the average graduate, less likely to cave in under pressure.

Jul 9, 2016
Panic:

I started at an execution-only desk at 26, entered a S&T traineeship at 27 and started as a trader at 28. Age matters but not a lot, though I am considered old for a junior trader. I think the current economic climate favors people that are a bit older than the average graduate, less likely to cave in under pressure.

Thank you,

This was an answer I wanted to hear. I hope to get on the path you're on and quick. If you don't mind telling, which firm are you currently at?

Think of everything in life as a work in progress. Infinite Potential.

See my WSO Blog

Jul 9, 2016
Panic:

I started at an execution-only desk at 26, entered a S&T traineeship at 27 and started as a trader at 28. Age matters but not a lot, though I am considered old for a junior trader. I think the current economic climate favors people that are a bit older than the average graduate, less likely to cave in under pressure.

What did you do prior to the execution role? How did you break into it and then move the traineeship?

Jul 9, 2016

Friend got an BB IBD SA offer and is 29. I received the same offer, and I am 26.

I know an analyst in a top group at a top BB firm, and he is 32.

Jul 9, 2016

are you a brogrammer?

Jul 9, 2016

First off, luck is when preparation meets opportunity - in other words, you create your own luck.

Secondly, learn to write.

"Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid"

Jul 9, 2016

If you can network or already know people in these funds, you might be able to work your way into one. But given the limited info, not much I can say. (also given my experience, or lack thereof)

Jul 9, 2016
Curiousbro:

Now normally it wouldn't be extremely difficult for someone with my background to work on Wall Street

I figured a 27 year old with real work history would be beyond making incorrect generalizations not grounded in their own experience. It's not easy for anyone, especially without a network.
To answer your question, I would go with an MBA. That will give you a background in finance and build out your network

Jul 9, 2016

Not having no...

Jul 9, 2016
LA_Duc:

Not having no...

I didn't even notice that....wow

Thank you and for all other replies.

Jul 9, 2016

We are the same age, and I did it, but I went to a stat arb prop, so I don't know about those big funds; I imagine it is possible.

Jul 9, 2016
protectedclass:

We are the same age, and I did it, but I went to a stat arb prop, so I don't know about those big funds; I imagine it is possible.

I have to disagree. With the information provided, I think it's 100% impossible for you to break in at PIMCO/BlackRock. Why would they hire you as a trader? What do you have to offer, since you don't want to be a quant? You've no finance experience. What is your undergraduate background?

I believe your only option is an MBA.

Jul 9, 2016

It's definitely possible. Programming is always in demand, even if you don't know anything about finance. Many people (like me) want to be able to say here are all of my constraints and the goal to optimize, please create a program to do so. If you know how to program, you can learn the 'finance' on the job. It's difficult to do the other way around.

Jul 9, 2016

It's definitely possible. Programming is always in demand, even if you don't know anything about finance. Many people (like me) want to be able to say here are all of my constraints and the goal to optimize, please create a program to do so. If you know how to program, you can learn the 'finance' on the job. It's difficult to do the other way around.

Jul 9, 2016
SirPoopsaLot:

It's definitely possible. Programming is always in demand, even if you don't know anything about finance. Many people (like me) want to be able to say here are all of my constraints and the goal to optimize, please create a program to do so. If you know how to program, you can learn the 'finance' on the job. It's difficult to do the other way around.

He wants to be a trader, not a programmer for traders.

Jul 9, 2016

Get an MBA

Jul 9, 2016
LauraSmith:

With the markets still in turmoil, more and more people are thinking of heading to business school. Even those who actually have jobs are thinking of going back to school to insulate themselves from layoffs and get a 2-year vacation while they're at it.

so how does that fare for me?

Jul 9, 2016

@"TNA"

ANT might help here but it sounds like you have a lot of research to do. "Front office roles", "private equity", "could i have a chance at"... all of this shit being included in one question makes me think you know next to nothing or you are all over the place and lack direction.

Jul 9, 2016

It isn't the age that hurts you, it is the work experience. My question is what have you been doing since graduating UG?

Assuming you have decent stats and get into a good program then I think you would stand a chance at banking at a MM firm (or BB if you network). But I do agree with Flake that you need to learn more about the industry as you seem to be confused or at least not precise when you are thinking about careers in finance.

Jul 9, 2016
TNA:

It isn't the age that hurts you, it is the work experience. My question is what have you been doing since graduating UG?

Assuming you have decent stats and get into a good program then I think you would stand a chance at banking at a MM firm (or BB if you network). But I do agree with Flake that you need to learn more about the industry as you seem to be confused or at least not precise when you are thinking about careers in finance.

I been interviewing at other places, took the GMAT, a Wall Street Prep self-study course, might start the CFA studying soon, working out.

Jul 9, 2016

MSF essentially gives you a clean slate, so yes you'll have a shot if you:
1. network
2. prep for interviews
3. learn the industry
4. get a solid GPA

also, i don't think CFA would be necessary since the MSF is basically the same thing

Jul 9, 2016

No.. banking jobs are much harder to secure these days, there's a growing trend of older candidates even applying for internships, at least in Europe and Asia. It is not that rare to see people with two years of experience going back to study again to give another shot at the industry.

Jul 9, 2016

62 1/2 or you'll be posting a thread asking college students how to advance your career after being a MD for 20 years.

I think- therefore I fuck

Jul 9, 2016

It's just a number -a symbolic gesture, point in time. Who cares - you have a plan, just stick with it.

Jul 9, 2016

when you see IB leads to singleness for life (unless you don't mind)

Jul 9, 2016

thanks for the reply.

I'm worried to not break into ibanking or management consulting. I didnt start before because I suffer bullying at High School and ended with anxiety and depression (low self steem, etc). So I'm worried to be in a disadvantage position than youngers possible analyst workers.

And probably too old then to join a 1st tier MBA to jump into IB in my mid 30 years old.

Jul 9, 2016

The problem can be not in your age but in the lack of leadership/confidence. People who suffer from bullies do not usually become bankers. Bullies become bankers.

Jul 9, 2016

With your background, assuming that you have plenty of experience writing, you would be a decent candidate for ER. Yes you would come in at a junior level, but the expectation would be for you to move up quickly. Some firms would let you come in at one level above the most junior (title will vary by firm). It is not unusual to have fairly junior people in ER have MBAs and CFAs, at my firm half the people entering have similar credentials and are in their 30s. You just will have to be comfortable with the fact that the coverage analyst you report to may be younger than you are.

The only other issue is that Canadian banks tend to have a more narrow focus in their ER. So, if you can't do resources you may be limited in your options in our friendly neighbor to the North.

Jul 9, 2016

Post a resume

If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses - Henry Ford

Jul 9, 2016

Smaller Investment bank, killer GMAT score, B-school------if you really want investment banking.

Accounting is not a bad career choice and you can make some nice money once you make partner in 12 years or so.

Jul 9, 2016

"Accounting is not a bad career choice and you can make some nice money once you make partner in 12 years or so."

Worst advice I've ever heard here.

Jul 9, 2016

That's definitely not the worst advice here but accounting is a tough road to hoe. The rewards are pretty good once you make your way to the top though.

If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses - Henry Ford

Jul 9, 2016

^ Agreed. A lot of people that go into accounting only stick around for the first 3 years for the training and designation and then they jet for things like banking, transfer internally to finance or something in consulting, or go into industry. It's less hours than banking, but still quite a bit of work, for much lower all-in comp. Also the work is very tedious. Auditing is dreadfully boring.

The road to becoming partner also has a lot of politics involved, from what I've heard from those in the field. If you don't make it - for the work you put in, there are better paying alternatives.

Jul 9, 2016

Assuming you are at a good school and have great grades, you will be fine. You can also talk to your life experience and maturity during interviews, which many people will appreciate. You aren't that old; I've known older people in analysts classes that were previously in the military, worked for a few years out of high school or had other extenuating circumstances.

I have no idea about where MBA admissions ages will be trending circa 2019, but it's not worth worrying about it. If you achieve your other goals, that will work itself out. I personally believe that the importance of the MBA is going to lessen in the near future. In my opinion, the opportunity cost just doesn't make sense for a lot of the people that are pursuing it.

Jul 9, 2016

I'm in the same boat as you minus your reason for dropping out. Interested in hearing other responses.

If your dreams don't scare you, then they are not big enough.

"There are two types of people in this world: People who say they pee in the shower, and dirty fucking liars."-Louis C.K.

Jul 9, 2016

You just are older than the average monkey, and frankly if you look younger, they may never know. I don't think the company I'm going to be working for knew how old I was until the offer was already signed. Just make sure you have a good story to tell, and you will be fine.

Jul 9, 2016
protectedclass:

You just are older than the average monkey, and frankly if you look younger, they may never know. I don't think the company I'm going to be working for knew how old I was until the offer was already signed. Just make sure you have a good story to tell, and you will be fine.

none of the firms I interned for nor my current firm knew how old I was until they ran the background check. most people only register college graduation year when scanning resumes.

bschools will know, but at your age you can skip bschool (makes up some of the lost time). if your shop won't allow it, switch shops...in two years you can rebuild the credibility you had if you are good.

Jul 9, 2016

I would not worry about it. 22/24 vs 26/27. It is only 2-3 years gap which is hard to differentiate. It is abnormal for companies to ask your age unless it is application where you put dob, social etc.

Regarding MBA, I agree with TechBanking. With years of experience plus undergrad credentials, you will have to incur opportunity cost for MBA as it is expensive and hardly there are any scholarships.

Jul 9, 2016

To be honest, not my area of expertise but I don't really think you are that old. There are many people who start in areas other than IB and then transition to IB by the time they are your age. I think given the situation, you focus on your strengths and use your age to network and show you can do the job. Could be an advantage if you play it right...its all about how you spin yourself.

Jul 9, 2016

Thank you all on the great pointers!!

TechBanking:

Assuming you are at a good school and have great grades, you will be fine. You can also talk to your life experience and maturity during interviews, which many people will appreciate. You aren't that old; I've known older people in analysts classes that were previously in the military, worked for a few years out of high school or had other extenuating circumstances.

I have no idea about where MBA admissions ages will be trending circa 2019, but it's not worth worrying about it. If you achieve your other goals, that will work itself out. I personally believe that the importance of the MBA is going to lessen in the near future. In my opinion, the opportunity cost just doesn't make sense for a lot of the people that are pursuing it.

I agree on the MBA part but I know its common for some MBA focused PE funds to force you out and do an MBA. If given the opportunity to move up without an MBA then to hell with it.

Jul 9, 2016

Is your financial advising group under a larger bank with an IB department? why not network within?

Baby you're the perfect shape, baby you're the perfect weight. Treat me like my birthday, I want it this way and I want it that way. It makes a man feel good baby.

Jul 9, 2016

MSF maybe? If you graduate in December you could do a few internships before the program starts. Try and network with other military grads in finance, from all I've seen the network among vets is pretty strong.

Jul 9, 2016

I would also recommend either MSF or trying to network within the bank for which you are going to work. Also, reach out to other vets, they are very helpful.

If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses - Henry Ford

Jul 9, 2016

You are not too late at all, friend. A buddy of mine was in an almost identical situation (except the school was a massive public school in Colorado), though his GPA wasn't higher than yours. He had no financial experience other than his classes, and was able to land on a trading desk in NYC with no connections. In terms of age, having served in the military does not work against you.

Jul 9, 2016

The FA offer came from an adjunct prof at my school who also happened to be military. The position is at a BB bank, but not in major city by any means. What suggestions for networking with vets in finance do you all have?

Jul 9, 2016

I too am in a similar situation. I've been lucky in the sense that a lot of the people I've met through family/friends tell me that having been in the military is a plus. Some firms like recently separated military.

Are you dead set on staying in/near the city you're currently in?

Jul 9, 2016
UCprop:

I too am in a similar situation. I've been lucky in the sense that a lot of the people I've met through family/friends tell me that having been in the military is a plus. Some firms like recently separated military.

Are you dead set on staying in/near the city you're currently in?

rugby?

Jul 9, 2016

not late at all - i know someone who joined IBD same class as myself - he was a British soldier and was in the field for 5-7yrs. Joined as an associate.

Jul 9, 2016

I'd prefer not to be in the city I'm in seeing that there's no such thing as an IB here. Dallas and Houston would be my top choices, but let's be honest, I'll go where the work takes me.

Jul 9, 2016

Network. The military network on the Street is strong. It's really up to you to be proactive because a job won't just land in your lap.

Jul 9, 2016

Average age at an MBA is ~28 based off 2010 data and around 80% are betwen 24 and 31. I wouldn't sweat it:

http://www.standardizedtests.org/content/average-a...

"I am not sure who this 'Anonymous' person is - one thing is for certain, they have been one hell of a prolific writer" - Anonymous

Jul 9, 2016

Not too old, military is quite well-regarded. I say yes, it is worth the cost.

Jul 9, 2016

No problem, do it

Jul 9, 2016

Military background is highly regarded, both in academia and employment situations. It's a go.

Jul 9, 2016

Going back to undergrad is one of the worst ideas imaginable. I'm not even sure what to tell you. In your shoes I would just become a dentist. Here goes:

1. Drop out of school
2. Go get an entry level job in finance/accounting/business...anything you can get
3. Work for a year or two, maybe start the CFA
4. Lateral into banking. If that fails, go for MSF. If that fails, work a few more years and go get an MBA.
5. Get banking job.
6. ??????
7. Profit
8. Ask yourself in 10 years why in the fuck you didn't just become a dentist

Hopefully someone helpful can chime in.

Jul 9, 2016

You have two more years left in your dental program? If you can grind it out then I'd say do that and re-evaluate. If you don't have an ounce of motivation to continue then try to networking to a finance-related job and lateral into a banking job down the road, as duffman sad. If that fails, why not apply to Ivey HBA in December. Pretty sure you'll be a sure acceptance if you do a few volunteering/leadership activities. Don't even think about going back to undergrad. As a fellow Canadian who transferred out to pursue finance after 2 and a half years of chemical engineering, I sometimes wish I would've grinded it out even though I had a sub 2.5 GPA.

TLDR: If you absolutely cannot continue in dentistry, use your high GPA to your advantage, network&lateral, or apply to Ivey

Jul 9, 2016

I have thought about the Ivey HBA over and over (I went to Western for my undergrad). I'd need to take Bus 2257 first, which would take a year.

How far can my high GPA take me? I can finish dentistry, I don't hate it - could I try and apply for some entry analyst positions after I graduate (at 25) with my DDS?

Jul 9, 2016

Don't make a decision based on your feeling about PE/IB. You want to do it but there is no guaranty that you will be able to handle the hours and you will like it, and who knows 2 years down the road, you would wish that you have finished your dentistry instead. Make sure you think it throughout and don't forget that in order to get another degree you will spend tons of money on top of that 100k. Especially in Canada, you gotta be at Ivey or Queens in order to have a clear shot, and those schools are pretty expensive.

Jul 9, 2016

Sleep on it, for about 6 months, while shadowing an IB analyst/associate in the mean time, then make your decision..

"An investment in knowledge pays the best interest." - Benjamin Franklin

Jul 9, 2016

This question is way too vague, its hard to say where you have to draw the line unless you know your options. For instance, if i had a solid MM IB job in a city i loved surrounded by friends i dont think i would leave for a BB job in a city i hate/dont know anybody. However, I wouldnt think twice about it if i was coming from unemployment or a BO role.

It would also depend on the stage in my life. For your first job you probably dont value location as much as you will in a few years. When your 22 it likely doesnt make a difference to you where you are, although you obviously will have preferences. When your 28 and your GF is moving across the country and you plan on proposing, you would strongly consider taking a "less than ideal" job.

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