Trump vs LaVar Ball is the battle of intellectual heavyweights that our country deserves. Seriously, this whole debacle is retarded, but we are now a nation of fat lazy entitled people, whiny millennials who think their art history major should lead to a lucrative job, social media obsessed people with no ability to read and understand complex arguments, etc. Just as Trump vs Hillary is what we as a nation deserved, this is what we get. Things will only get worse unless the American people get their shit together. Meanwhile, China is making valuable investments in AI, machine learning, genetics, and a host of other industries of the future, are working their ass off, and setting up the stage for a Chinese century. The U.S. is in the midst of systemic decline unless drastic action is taken.

With respect to this specific incident: 1) Trump is immature and petty to get into a twitter fight over this rather than using twitter to advocate for something meaningful, such as tax reform, and 2) LaVar Ball should have shown some gratitude to the President; after all, his thug son committed a crime on foreign soil, a country that doesn't mess around when it comes to crime.

 

Where are you from that shoplifters get labelled as thugs? Just curious. Next you'll be telling me Winona Ryder is a thug, def frightened of her and her hardened criminal background, she should just join the Aryan brother(sister?)hood and be done with it.

p.s. this whole thing is hilarious, it's almost like fate gave us this moment, two massive trolls going to Twitter battle - one is the POTUS, we're in the twilight zone

Array
 
BobTheBaker:
Where are you from that shoplifters get labelled as thugs? Just curious. Next you'll be telling me Winona Ryder is a thug, def frightened of her and her hardened criminal background, she should just join the Aryan brother(sister?)hood and be done with it.

p.s. this whole thing is hilarious, it's almost like fate gave us this moment, two massive trolls going to Twitter battle - one is the POTUS, we're in the twilight zone

He committed a crime. That makes him a thug.

 

Yes, they would. It's literally in the definition. Take it up with Webster's if you don't like the definition.

EDIT: Other thugs that come to mind: Bernie Madoff and Harvey Weinstein.

"Who am I? I'm the guy that does his job. You must be the other guy."
 

Shoplifting is not a violent crime. (The very difference between shoplifting (theft in a more generic sense) and robbery, for example, is exactly the existence of violence (or lack thereof). https://www.criminaldefenselawyer.com/resources/criminal-defense/crimin…)

Morality is not a black or white, objective concept.

Bernie Madoff is not a thug.

 

I never said shoplifting was a violent crime. I said that it was done with malicious/cruel intent. Again, fine, if we want to draw the line of robbery at using a gun or not then so be it, but there are many instances of 'robbery' where no violence was used (one list below).

I didn't mean for this to devolve into a sub-conversation of morality, but I guess I've got to defend my position on this. Normally, people I've encountered who say morality is not black or white usually have had the need to make justifications in the past. Keeping with the example earlier of Walmart, let's go down that route. Someone steals from the Evil Wal-Mart, which is a massive company. Maybe, it doesn't seem like that big of a deal, but maybe it's happened 4 times in the past month to one of the employees on shift, or maybe the manager is dealing with some other issues and it reflects poorly on his performance and one of those people get fired. My point is when you start saying 'morality is not objective' you start justifying things without necessarily having all the facts. That's why moral absolutes exist. You shouldn't steal being one of them. You might think that you have the 'moral high ground' from instance by instance, but the point is you shouldn't do it. Period. Obviously, if someone steals millions of dollars, it is a different level of crime than stealing peanuts from a convenience store, but that is where the LEGAL system comes in. From a moral perspective, both are theft.

https://www.ranker.com/list/bank-robbers-who-didnt-use-violence/cristin…

"Who am I? I'm the guy that does his job. You must be the other guy."
 

Morality is relative. Absolute morality in ethical philosophy is simply not subscribed to anymore and its unbelievable you continue to push your narrative regardless. Killing is immoral. Killing is killing. Yet there is a different degree of morality between a soldier killing to defend his country versus an individual murdering a bunch of children. That's simply the reality. One could very much argue there is zero malicious/ cruel intent in shoplifting. Wanting free stuff isn't malicious nor cruel in and of itself. I'm sorry bro, it's sad this is still a conversation. It's one thing to say LiAngelo Ball is an idiot and a delinquent. To call him a thug is simply a step too far. No one uses that word that way. Under your definition, people who stupidly get behind the wheel and drive while drunk are thugs. No one is trying to justify shoplifting, I understand it is convenient to frame the argument as "is shoplifting justified" because the actual argument "does shoplifting make you a thug" is one where you have to twist yourself into a logical pretzel to justify your position o but please cease with the strawman. This seriously isn't a difficult concept. Many of those bank robberies where committed without threat of violence so yea, not thug behavior. I'm sorry this has been so difficult for you.

I find it hilarious that snowflakes are managing to MS every single one of my posts without reasonable response. It's what I've come to expect from WSO re: the level of debate and heightened emotions that come with counterarguments.

Array
 
Best Response
MonkeyWrench:
I never said shoplifting was a violent crime. I said that it was done with malicious/cruel intent. Again, fine, if we want to draw the line of robbery at using a gun or not then so be it, but there are many instances of 'robbery' where no violence was used (one list below).

I didn't mean for this to devolve into a sub-conversation of morality, but I guess I've got to defend my position on this. Normally, people I've encountered who say morality is not black or white usually have had the need to make justifications in the past. Keeping with the example earlier of Walmart, let's go down that route. Someone steals from the Evil Wal-Mart, which is a massive company. Maybe, it doesn't seem like that big of a deal, but maybe it's happened 4 times in the past month to one of the employees on shift, or maybe the manager is dealing with some other issues and it reflects poorly on his performance and one of those people get fired. My point is when you start saying 'morality is not objective' you start justifying things without necessarily having all the facts. That's why moral absolutes exist. You shouldn't steal being one of them. You might think that you have the 'moral high ground' from instance by instance, but the point is you shouldn't do it. Period. Obviously, if someone steals millions of dollars, it is a different level of crime than stealing peanuts from a convenience store, but that is where the LEGAL system comes in. From a moral perspective, both are theft.

https://www.ranker.com/list/bank-robbers-who-didnt-use-violence/cristin…

Thug means violent. Are you not from here? This is common knowledge. Have I just been successfully trolled? Damn it.
 
Rufus1234:
With respect to this specific incident: 1) Trump is immature and petty to get into a twitter fight over this rather than using twitter to advocate for something meaningful, such as tax reform, and 2) LaVar Ball should have shown some gratitude to the President; after all, his thug son committed a crime on foreign soil, a country that doesn't mess around when it comes to crime.
You seem to equating the actions of both sides. Except one is a random guy on TV and the other is the President. It's Trumpian logic to say that the President shouldn't have a higher standard of behavior than yhe rabble. It's just another example of the President's comical insecurities. He's not driven by a sense of duty only the desperate and pathetic need for external validation and praise. World leaders are already taking advantage of his psychological problems.
 
thurnis haley:
Rufus1234:
With respect to this specific incident: 1) Trump is immature and petty to get into a twitter fight over this rather than using twitter to advocate for something meaningful, such as tax reform, and 2) LaVar Ball should have shown some gratitude to the President; after all, his thug son committed a crime on foreign soil, a country that doesn't mess around when it comes to crime.
You seem to equating the actions of both sides. Except one is a random guy on TV and the other is the President. It's Trumpian logic to say that the President shouldn't have a higher standard of behavior than yhe rabble. It's just another example of the President's comical insecurities. He's not driven by a sense of duty only the desperate and pathetic need for external validation and praise. World leaders are already taking advantage of his psychological problems.

I'm not. I said explicitly that Trump should not have gotten involved. At the same time, yes, Lavar Ball should have at least shown some gratitude as his son committed a crime on foreign soil and could have faced time in a Chinese prison. Trump did not have to intervene on the behalf of the UCLA players. Instead of issuing a quick thank you and moving on, Ball decided to be petty and insult the President.

 
Rufus1234:
Trump vs LaVar Ball is the battle of intellectual heavyweights that our country deserves. Seriously, this whole debacle is retarded, but we are now a nation of fat lazy entitled people, whiny millennials who think their art history major should lead to a lucrative job, social media obsessed people with no ability to read and understand complex arguments, etc. Just as Trump vs Hillary is what we as a nation deserved, this is what we get. Things will only get worse unless the American people get their shit together. Meanwhile, China is making valuable investments in AI, machine learning, genetics, and a host of other industries of the future, are working their ass off, and setting up the stage for a Chinese century. The U.S. is in the midst of systemic decline unless drastic action is taken.

With respect to this specific incident: 1) Trump is immature and petty to get into a twitter fight over this rather than using twitter to advocate for something meaningful, such as tax reform, and 2) LaVar Ball should have shown some gratitude to the President; after all, his thug son committed a crime on foreign soil, a country that doesn't mess around when it comes to crime.

I agree that under normal circumstances one should always show gratitude, especially out of respect for the country’s highest office. But you have a guy who is effectively an online bully and a poor representative of the office he holds. I don’t think he has earned the respect of the office to be treated with respect because he doesn’t show a lot of respect for the office itself.

 
iBankedUp:
Rufus1234:
Trump vs LaVar Ball is the battle of intellectual heavyweights that our country deserves. Seriously, this whole debacle is retarded, but we are now a nation of fat lazy entitled people, whiny millennials who think their art history major should lead to a lucrative job, social media obsessed people with no ability to read and understand complex arguments, etc. Just as Trump vs Hillary is what we as a nation deserved, this is what we get. Things will only get worse unless the American people get their shit together. Meanwhile, China is making valuable investments in AI, machine learning, genetics, and a host of other industries of the future, are working their ass off, and setting up the stage for a Chinese century. The U.S. is in the midst of systemic decline unless drastic action is taken.

With respect to this specific incident: 1) Trump is immature and petty to get into a twitter fight over this rather than using twitter to advocate for something meaningful, such as tax reform, and 2) LaVar Ball should have shown some gratitude to the President; after all, his thug son committed a crime on foreign soil, a country that doesn't mess around when it comes to crime.

I agree that under normal circumstances one should always show gratitude, especially out of respect for the country’s highest office. But you have a guy who is effectively an online bully and a poor representative of the office he holds. I don’t think he has earned the respect of the office to be treated with respect because he doesn’t show a lot of respect for the office he holds.

He's still the President of the United States, who was elected by the American people. You can hate the guy and think he's a piece of shit President and human being, fine. But when your son commits a crime on foreign soil, is facing jail time, and the leader of the free world intervenes on his behalf even though he was under no obligation to do so, just a brief thank you would have sufficed. Instead, Ball decided to be clever, denying that he knows who Trump is and denying that Trump had anything to do with his son's release. It was a shitty move.

 

Let's review what LaVar Ball actually said to ESPN regarding this incident.

"Who? What was he over there for? Don’t tell me nothing. Everybody wants to make it seem like he helped me out. As long as my boy’s back here, I’m fine. I’m happy with how things were handled. A lot of people like to say a lot of things that they thought happened over there. Like I told him, ‘They try to make a big deal out of nothing sometimes.’ I’m from L.A. I’ve seen a lot worse things happen than a guy taking some glasses. My son has built up enough character that one bad decision doesn’t define him. Now if you can go back and say when he was 12 years old he was shoplifting and stealing cars and going wild, then that’s a different thing.”

Now, couple of things stick out when you read this commentary. First, Ball never once thanks or expresses any semblance of gratitude for what the President did. Keep in mind that those UCLA ball players were not political prisoners, human rights activists, or captured U.S. soldiers. They are grown men who committed a crime on foreign soil. Yet, Trump intervened on their behalf. Now, it certainly is possible that they would have been released anyway, but when the Leader of the Free World gets involved, it certainly helps. Second, Ball dismisses his son's theft as a "big deal out of nothing," which is pretty astounding coming from a father and supposed role model. What type of example is he setting for his kids? To be frank, with a dad like that, I'm not too surprised his son got in trouble. Ball does not express any sense of personal responsibility or guilt for what his son did but rather excuses it.

So yes, Ball is an ingrate and a douchebag. This has nothing to do with whether one personally approves of Trump as the President. If Ball had said something like the following, this would not be an issue: "I thank President Trump for helping out my son and his friends. I certainly did not vote for him, but I am grateful for what he did. My son messed up, and as a father, I will work to make sure my son grows into a man of character."

 
Rufus1234:
"I thank President Trump for helping out my son and his friends. I certainly did not vote for him, but I am grateful for what he did. My son messed up, and as a father, I will work to make sure my son grows into a man of character."

That requires; class, acknowledgment of responsibility, admission of wrongdoing, and humility. None of which LaVar possesses.

26 Broadway where's your sense of humor?
 

Dude the guy is a huge troll. He said he could beat Michael Jordan in a game of 1v1 bball. I find it hilarious that you're actually taking the time to analyze him as if he's to be taken seriously. Of course our POTUS is also a troll so this is perfect. I bet Lavar responds and this turns into a full blown national crisis. Lmao.

p.s. the son already personally thanked the president and apologized, listening to the attention seeking troll Dad is pointless.

Array
 

Dear Lavar Ball,

God bless you. Against all odds, you have managed to pull off the impossible. You are an inspiration to millions. You have done what most of us can only dream of. You have accomplished a feat so tremendous that there is no trophy large enough to encapsulate the truly magnificent achievement...

You have managed to troll a troll

 

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Follow the shit your fellow monkeys say @shitWSOsays Life is hard, it's even harder when you're stupid - John Wayne
 

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