Leaving a company after less than 12 months

How bad does it look for you to leave a company after less than 12 months? I would be leaving for the same role but with a larger firm and a significant higher comp package. I plan to work there 18 months before attending bschool.

 

First off, congrats!

Second, that's less than 2.5 years of work experience before B-School, which is well below the average in this day.

I would agree that if the difference in opportunity is significant particular to your current firm (i.e. moving up an "industry brand" tier or two), it would be worth a move. But I would encourage staying 2.5 or 3.5 years at this new firm. Get one or two promotions and some more professional growth under your belt (something that all the T15 programs will like to see).

Nowadays, I don't know anyone at an MBA business schools">M7 with less than 3 years of work experience. In all of those cases, all 3 years were at one firm, and the firm was a prominent investment bank or consulting firm.

There are plenty of current/recent MBAs here, hopefully they chime in and add some value.

"Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt." --Abraham Lincoln
 

I appreciate the response. I worked full time in the industry while going through school due to family issues going on. The reason I am more rushed is I don’t want to be over 30 coming out of bschool as an associate if possible.

 

For what it's worth, my friend was in a very similar position. In her case, someone left and she was thrown into their team at the deep end and expected to do fairly complex things on an industry she knew nothing about and had no interest in. To make things worse, her new boss wasn't at all sympathetic and apparently provided little to know support.

She stuck it out, but only for a year. She hated it, but she learned a lot in that time. Best of all, she was able to leverage that experience to get a better job elsewhere. As she put it, leaving after a few months would have made it a waste of time - she wouldn't have learned anything and probably wouldn't have been able to even put it on her resume.

So, the jist of my answer is, if you think you can survive another 8 months of this, you probably should. You'll get exposure to something different, get some more skills and, honestly, it isn't that long a time.

 

I really don't like the attitude that you should be thankful that you have a job even if you absolutely hate it. If you have the luxury of being able to choose a job, you have the luxury to choose something that works for you more than the other choices. Also, wanting to avoid regular weekend work is a reasonable request for many occupations.

You probably won't be able to move for a few more months but it's probably a good idea to put a lot of thought into your next move so that you spend a few years there.

 

OP, that's a tough spot to be in. I personally don't think you have the wrong attitude at all...being left on an island in a new industry (especially in such a technically focused industry like oil & gas) with no guidance and a shitty superior sounds pretty miserable.

IMO, I would try to reframe your thought process here and just learn as much about oil and gas as possible. It may not be interesting at first, but it's so geopolitically connected, has so many macroeconomical effects, and requires you to really understand the industry from a technical standpoint which is going to be Accretive to your career no matter what.

The late hours suck because it's the opposite of your expectations. I get it. But stick it out and grind through it.

Is there no one else in your group you can leverage help from?

 
Best Response

in my opinion, ER is more rigid than say IBD. it takes longer to learn your sectors/companies so people tend to have longer tenure therefore positions are filled at lower frequency unless there is a turnover issue. plus IBD could always use more excel monkeys vs. ER teams usually have fixed numbers to correspond to the number of companies they are covering so unless someone leaves, they can't just make a spot for you.

having said all that, i would do 1 & 2. if 1 fails, then maybe 2 will give you some results. you could always bail out of 2 if 1 works but, if you have been ignored thus far just asking for basic help then chances are you try 1 and they will tell you to keep quiet and carry on. good luck.

(p.s. google is an excellent training surrogate for your modelling).

"I'm talking about liquid. Rich enough to have your own jet. Rich enough not to waste time. Fifty, a hundred million dollars, buddy. A player. Or nothing. " -GG
 

OP, really tough spot to be in. What's the internal mobility policy at this shop? Do you need to be in your role for a year prior to moving? If not, I would look into an internal move. I think overall it's good experience and can position you for other roles later on (credit research at BB, back to corporate banking, harder sell, but equity research on the same industry, B school).

How long have you been at the MM bank prior to leaving?

Have you tried to talk to your boss about your situation at all? What I would try doing is have a sit down with her and level set. Along the lines of "I am four months in and the way things are working out are currently not aligning with my expectations at the time I was brought on.." Would focus on two aspects 1) This is a complex industry that you have no experience in and you want to learn. Say you'd like the opportunity to learn from her and receive more guidance on the stuff you are doing given her extensive industry expertise. Mention the steep learning curve and you are not getting to help you need inspite of asking for it. 2) Discuss hours - mention that when being brought on work/life balance was one of the things communicated to you by the firm and one of the big selling points of this job. This is not aligning with her expectations of you working weekends, etc. You are willing to work hard and stay late to get important things done, but, this shouldn't be the norm (i.e. Working every single weekend). Perhaps a level set with your boss can make things better. If she is not receptive at all, then I would start looking at an internal change ASAP.

Would also look at the BIWS modeling courses, believe they have one on energy. This could help you bridge the technical gap from an analysis perspective.

I'm not very familiar with the rating agency side but have a credit background myself. What are the backgrounds of most people at your shop? Also what's comp and career advancement like at the junior and more senior levels.

 

A big red flag to who? Not to the headhunters reaching out to first years about lateral opportunities or to the banks they're representing. Agree that it's better to go sooner rather than later if you know the coverage industry isn't a good fit. As you can imagine, waiting until you're an associate would generally make it harder to switch out of a niche industry.,

 

It would raise a bit of a question as to why you made the move and what specific objective you had with the same I imagine, though not necessarily one that you can't explain (e.g., strategic fit, working on a deal for [ ] or researching [ ] which led to an evolved interest, leading to said move). If you are in FIG for those firms, you are in an enviable position indeed, as those boast some of the strongest exit opps on the street in all respects. Sometimes situations like these could garner the grass is greener phenomenon, where the move in principle isn't particularly satisfying once it is already done.

I've found that the benefit of niche groups is that the valuation methodologies are at times extremely technical/complex, which has the benefit of you having a differentiated skillset should you want to continue A to A as you say, or makes you a more well rounded banker in that you have knowledge of a few different metholodiges (You will find plain vanilla valuation to be quite an easier task after venturing through a FIG/O&G group).

In your case, I think it makes sense to stay things through at least 12 months, preferably 18 months, and seeing what opportunities present themselves on the buyside. You have indicated that you are not really interested in the industry you cover, but I don't suspect it will preclude you from buy side options outside said industry given the caliber of firm you are at :)

There's a closer meaning to my user name. Try reading it quickly. Perhaps you will then understand ;P
 

Apologies if you feel that you've already stated this in your response, but just to clarify, does this mean you think that doing 18 months in a niche group would be better for me in the long run if I do want to stay in banking?

My goal is to lateral to a consumer / industrial group if possible.

 

My advice would be to move after 12 months. I think this would:

  • Reflect better to the other members of your current group
  • May help you obtain/retain your bonus(es)
  • Might minimize worries that you’ll join a different group then simply bounce again if you don’t like it after only 6 months

At the end of the day I don’t think that 6 months will impact your ability to do an A-A

 

just another CV story...i've seen plenty of senior traders with very short stints...then go on to have very successful careers elsewhere...if its not a great fit, there is no shame in moving on to a better opportunity. It could be argued that in trading, this is actually rewarded. You are trading your career just as you would trade a position. Sell your losers quick, let your winners run.

However, you are not a senior trader (i'm guessing). I'm guessing you don't have a big P&L under your name? This puts you in a tough spot...but still no shame in having a short spot on your CV.

For others who might read this post wondering "should i leave my BB job after getting promoted up for a lateral opportunity" regarding leaving the BB in the first place, i think OP made a rookie mistake (can't cry over spilt milk tho...so OP should ignore this part). Junior BB traders get enticed to be poached all the time. But you have to balance risk vs reward. If the potential upside reward is small, then why take the risk? i would argue that you should only look to move positions in the first place (when you are a trader) if you have CONSIDERABLE P&L under your name that you could shop around, or if you are MISERABLE in your current firm. Its quite common for trading jobs to fall thru or not work out from management stuff that you have no control over...in which case, if you find yourself out of a job, you will be using your original BB experience to get your next job. If your BB experience is still rather junior, then you may have a hard time finding a trading seat these days (unless you also have hard quant skills....those guys are always in demand).

So, back to OP..."should you move"...it depends on what you have to offer...what the product is, and how relationship driven the S&T market is for your product. You should research the answer to the question: What is the "market" for me? Is there a bid? How many firms would "bid" on me. This is a hard question to answer in the trading world, because there are so few openings in any given year...so its an illiquid market. However, you can still try to find an answer. Do you have both the knowledge, experience and track record to make money trading on your own? Then heck, try to goto a hedge fund like Millennium. If not (i'm assuming not), then what exactly do you have to offer? You didn't mention the product you traded, or your personal P&L. If you were a member of a 5-man swaps desk where all customer trades go into one book, then you don;t get to take that book's P&L onto your personal P&L...you should also have a side prop book...THAT is your personal P&L. Yeah, you were a member of a team, and the team made 80 million....but if you were not making original prop trading decisions, if you were just following a process taught to you by the senior guys, then its common knowledge/assumption that the junior guys are just following orders from the senior guys. If you are an exception to this (if you are a quant building trading models that make real money), then THAT is something to highlight.

btw...i'm aware that the bulk of the 2nd portion of my response had NOTHING to do with OP's situation...its was just a related topic. I think OP should goto the boutique if the opportunity presents itself, given OP's specific situation.

just google it...you're welcome
 

Thanks for the quick reply, want2trade! I was actually in an OTC execution role in my previous seat so never actually managed risk.

Furthermore, I’m more of a salestrader at an Agency B/D now, so only execute on behalf of clients and present ideas/help manage accounts, etc.

I do have hard quant skills (Python, etc.) but not enough to do algo trading or that kinda thing.

The other firm is a bulge bracket and it would be a front office salestrading role at a higher title, etc. Plus I am very close to them so I would see my contact there as a ‘sponsor’ for my career and it is definitely a place I would want to grow.

I still think the principle stands though, despite not being a trader with a ‘track record’ per se. If it’s not working out, it’s not working out, and if a better opportunity is in the cards, why not pursue? Particularly one that I was top candidate for — for some color, they had a hiring freeze on their end and couldn’t hire until 2018 (their fiscal year ends in March).

 

Since you graduated so recently, you can also do your CFA later once you are on the new job, it's not a must have to get a job. Equity research shouls be a relatively easy transition and you are in a good position to get a job there.

cubiclecrowd.com blog.cubiclecrowd.com
 

Thanks for your comments! what do you think are the best next steps? I'm primarily interested in the more reputable firms. Should I try to apply online at all? or focus mostly on networking?

Finally, Ive heard that turnover is high in equity research, is that true and why? If so, when do firms tend to do most of their offcycle hiring?

 

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