Ibanking hours?

Are the hours REALLY as bad as they are made out to be for the analyst and associate positions in IBD? I hear everything from 90 to 120hr work weeks, is this for mon-fri? I don't see how that is humanly possible.. If it is including sat&sun thats a little more believable but still pretty absurd. For you guys in the industry what would you say a typical workday is like, 8-8? 8-10? And do the hours lessen as you move up the ladder to VP and so on?

 

beating a dead horse. search function please. If you can't do that simple research then you would never cut it in IB

"Look, you're my best friend, so don't take this the wrong way. In twenty years, if you're still livin' here, comin' over to my house to watch the Patriots games, still workin' construction, I'll fuckin' kill you. That's not a threat, that's a fact.
 

^^ is right in his content, but a bit harsh in his delivery. I'd say an Average week, in my group (which is not necessarily representative of all groups on the street) - is 9am-12am mon-fri and maybe 8-10 hours total on the weekend - so that's about 85 hours a week - can be much less (9-7 mon-fri and no weekend) or much more (9-3am+ for 7 days) - it really depends

 
DaCarez:
^^ is right in his content, but a bit harsh in his delivery. I'd say an Average week, in my group (which is not necessarily representative of all groups on the street) - is 9am-12am mon-fri and maybe 8-10 hours total on the weekend - so that's about 85 hours a week - can be much less (9-7 mon-fri and no weekend) or much more (9-3am+ for 7 days) - it really depends

yea your right, I was a bit harsh. I just hate seeing posters with less than 10 posts that always ask repetitive questions that can easily be answered using google or simply searching on this site.

"Look, you're my best friend, so don't take this the wrong way. In twenty years, if you're still livin' here, comin' over to my house to watch the Patriots games, still workin' construction, I'll fuckin' kill you. That's not a threat, that's a fact.
 

I hate to heap it on here but do you really think all of the stuff you've heard about how horrible the hours are is BS? I mean it isn't like there is some vast conspiracy to make college kids think the hours are horrible when in actuality they aren't. You've heard about it because its a huge part of the lifestyle that goes along with the banking profession.

If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses - Henry Ford
 
Best Response
BankonBanking:
It really varies based on group, based on deal cycle, live deal or just pitch work, etc - most averages are 70-80, can have some weeks where it's less and many other weeks where you hit 90, 100+ ( http://www.bankonbanking.com/2010/07/15/gmats-banker-hours-school-decis… ).
I will respectfully disagree with this. In my experience, most analysts work ~90 hrs with harder weeks approaching 100 and very infrequent spikes at 110 or above.

The truth is, it depends on how hard you want to work as an analyst. There are always some analysts who don't pull their own weight -- leave at 1:00am every night regardless of how much work is left to do, and don't ever stay late on weekends. They push back when a staffer tries to give them a project and frequently lie about how much work they have to do to avoid getting staffed again. These analysts tend to be the ones who receive the smallest bonuses and complain the most. They also usually strike out in PE recruiting.

If you're gunning for top bucket (or even a reasonable ranking), get staffed on a lot of active deals/projects, you can expect 90+ hour work weeks on a very consistent basis.

CompBanker’s Career Guidance Services: https://www.rossettiadvisors.com/
 

heavily depends on the group. If you are on multiple live deals, you will have peak weeks with >90 and slow weeks with ~60.

However, if you are pitching constantly and don't win anything..expect >90 weeks on average

 

Varies incredibly, especially on the Associate level. Associates who used to be analysts will be far more capable and won't require much time getting up the learning curve. Associates who came from backgrounds such as the military will likely struggle to get up the efficiency curve (this could take more than a year). Either way, you can expect an associate to be putting in almost as many hours as the analyst. VPs and above it depends on the individual and how hard a worker they are.

CompBanker’s Career Guidance Services: https://www.rossettiadvisors.com/
 
CompBanker:
Varies incredibly, especially on the Associate level. Associates who used to be analysts will be far more capable and won't require much time getting up the learning curve. Associates who came from backgrounds such as the military will likely struggle to get up the efficiency curve (this could take more than a year). Either way, you can expect an associate to be putting in almost as many hours as the analyst. VPs and above it depends on the individual and how hard a worker they are.

1st year Associate in BB M&A group here. I wasn't an analyst previously and, in my group, I'm more or less staffed like a 2nd year analyst for the first 6-9 months. Challenge is, I'm still expected to know "what's going on" as opposed to just cranking pages and models like an analyst. Translation, I have pretty long hours; I'd estimate that I'm doing between 90-105 in any given week and usually work 7 days a week. Some of that is due to me still being slow at a lot of stuff; but as I get faster, I just get more work so it cancels out. The 2nd year associates have relatively lighter schedules, but then it ramps up again for the 3rd year associates as you are then expected to be much more independent (draw up pages, but still jump into a model when needed).

 

CB's experience is also a little bit different -- from what I know, very little pitching, most time spent on live M&A deals (multiple deals at once, sometimes up to five at one time). Most groups, there will be a decent split between pitching and "live" deals, and unless you're in an M&A group, they won't be all sell-sides (which is easily the most time consuming process). When you split your time between pitches and live deals (which include equity and debt offerings), you can definitely find weeks where hours are much less than the aforementioned 90. Just over the past month, I've had a 90 hour week and a 45 hour week (I'm in a regional office and have been at this for over a year and a half, so I'm pretty efficient, but this isn't standard in main offices -- but at least in my group, there is this level of fluctuation -- I've seen an analyst work 110 hours one week and then 60 the next). So hours can and will fluctuate, depending on the group, but you can definitely expect to see 100+ hour weeks at least occasionally, if not the norm. Some groups will be less inclined to go "balls to the wall" on pitches, which is really what will make or break your life... If they're less crazy on pitches and face time, you can expect to find decent weeks here or there. It also helps when you have good associates who know what they're doing.

 
LeveragedFiend:
jimbrowngoU:
most time spent on live M&A deals (multiple deals at once, sometimes up to five at one time)

Tell me what group is working on five live deals at once these days. Seems like a bit much, but correct me if I am wrong. How do you keep track of everything?

5 live deals in general (M&A along with offerings) is possible but 5 M&A transactions seems ridiculous but I don't doubt Jim's knowledge.

To answer the general question about hours, I think it depends mostly on group and culture. I've seen groups that pound out pitchbooks a day or two in advance (surprising I know) and hate staying in the office late unless absolutely necessary. I've seen other groups where first years have been essentially working 100 hours non-stop since their first day on the desks. So in short, it really varies based on bank (bulge, boutiques etc), group (coverage vs. M&A vs. product), dealflow (pitches vs. painful, in-depth pitches vs. live deals) and group culture. Hope that helps.

 

Sponsors is an industry group, but from what I've heard... Better hours. Our Sponsors group is all senior bankers and one analyst, and most times, a Sponsor guy will pair with an industry banker and the industry banker preps materials. LevFin is typically a busy group, but again, depends on the bank. LF deals can be time consuming depending on what types of deals your bank generally does (if you're doing lead books, syndicated bank deals, it can be time consuming -- bank book (CIM), lender presentation, model work -- but if you're doing club deals with small holds, it's basically internal crap). M&A is going to require the most hours, typically has the most intense bankers, and will give you great experience to become a generalist at a buyout shop. If you're bank has good dealflow, you'll probably get sucked into pitches on occasion but a lot of time will be spent on live deals.

 

I managed to hit five live deals at once in mid 2008. Didn't last too long because three of the deals were in the last couple of months and therefore there wasn't much work for me to do. In general, 2-3 live deals per analyst was normal at my MM bank back in the good ol' days.

CompBanker’s Career Guidance Services: https://www.rossettiadvisors.com/
 

my group averages 90 hrs a week easy... it'll hit 100-110 depending on the deliverables and deadlines. But it's pretty much expected to be at least 90. It's a healthy mix of a couple live deals and pitches.

 

2 things... the hours comein waves... and during the summer the analyst bennefit from the summer analysts and summer associates who take a ton of pressure off of the full time analysts (add that to the fact that things are slow in summer)....

this was a fucking stupid post

 
GoFUCKyourself:
2 things... the hours comein waves... and during the summer the analyst bennefit from the summer analysts and summer associates who take a ton of pressure off of the full time analysts (add that to the fact that things are slow in summer)....

this was a fucking stupid post

1) Ah ok. I didn't know that summer analysts took so much work off the analysts. I guess that helps to explain it. Thanks for the answer, appreciate it.

2) Fuck you.

 

Wow, seriously, another one of these threads?

And btw, summer analysts don't do shit for workflow. You're basically worthless and a liability, I'd just as soon lodge my head behind a tire when parking on a hill as I'd trust a SA to do something without spending, probably about as much time it would take me to do it myself from scratch, checking it over. Dealflow is always down in the summertime, thats why workflow is better. You have very little to offer along those 10 weeks other than an opportunity to gauge if we want to work with you in the future... and if you're a cute chick, something to look at.

As for hours... my summer has been 80-95 hours solid... which is atypical. This time last year I was probably doing 60-70 hours, and got completely demolished come the post labor day avalanche.

So its pretty rare to average 100 hour weeks day in and day out throughout the year. By way of example, I work in restructuring and even throughout one of the worst economic downturns in US history, and in a year when my firm did 3x as much business as it had done in the next busiest year of my firms's somewhat long history... I probably still didn't average 100 hours a week, 52 weeks a year... or even 50 weeks a year for that matter. I probably average 80-90 hours a week... with a range of 65-120.

That being said, there are times when you get killed. I've done a few 120+ weeks and there's nothing fun about it... no matter how easily you work long hours, and I do better than 99% of people.

 

Can I just say in my group this summer... almost all the SAs worked 90-100+ hr weeks along with the FT analysts... workflow was slower towards the middle of the summer, but was crazy busy towards the end... btw although I do agree that FT have to check SA work, but the fact there is someone below you to hand menial tasks to saves the FT a lot of trouble (i.e. printing, delivering)...

 

things are always much, much slower before labor day, so that probably plays into it somewhat right now

id say 80-90 is probably the norm, and its definitely possible to still go out 1-2 nights a week and occasionally have nice dinners with friends/significant others on those hours

 
ricochetX:
i heard one kid did 165 hours a week last week , he was really stressed out

Oh yea? He couldn't manage to work the remaining 3 hours that existed in the week? What a pussy

 

The deal flows come and go. However, you can usually expect to work 9 to 12/2 every night from monday to thursday, then maybe getting off on friday at around 5pm

The weekends vary as it depends on the client / pitch you are doing. But I would say in a reputable IB, 70-100 is definitely there.

 

I am up at school watching kids move in and as soon as I saw this post I realized it must be that time of year when this board gets deluged with rookie posts.

Hours ebb and flow. Some weeks are easy and some are hell. The hours in Banking are a bitch because you cannot plan for them and you need to be on call all the time. You get compensated for it though. Deal with it.

 

On that note, which groups work the least hours on average?

You know you've been working too hard when you stop dreaming about bottles of champagne and hordes of naked women, and start dreaming about conditional formatting and circular references.
 
Zweihander:
On that note, which groups work the least hours on average?
I may be completely ignorant, but I'd say the groups that work the least hours on average are the groups that you are going to get a less useful experience, prestige, and pay from. If you are working on a blockbuster deal that's hitting national headlines, you're probably going to be working 100+ hour weeks and grinding it out. If you're working on maybe 1-2 small deals that aren't going to bring much revenue, you will probably be working less hours.
 

Yes.

The smart way to think about hours is:

1) Do not work with people who will waste your time by asking for huge pitches, irrelevant analysis, useless information, etc. It will take forever, you learn nothing, and nobody cares. The worst offenders are lateral hires who have something to prove and senior bankers in weaker groups who will do anything to try to get clients.

2) If you are spending a lot of time on large, mandated deals, the hours are worth it and will be long. If you are doing pitches or providing "coverage" to clients by helping them with presentations, etc the time is wasted.

3) Greatly depends on how many projects you are working on and deal flow of the group.

4) Hours worked does not determine pay and does not necessarily equal amount learned. If you are looking for exits, get 2-3 great deals. At that point having time to prepare makes the biggest difference.

 

This question has been asked 100s of times, but I'll humor you.

Usually about 70-80 hours.

9am - 11pm on average 5 days a week (that's 70 hours) then a couple odd hours on the weekends.

  • Capt K
- Capt K - "Prestige is like a powerful magnet that warps even your beliefs about what you enjoy. If you want to make ambitious people waste their time on errands, bait the hook with prestige." - Paul Graham
 

I live in London and do 70-90 with the average definately around 80. There are periods that are way more intense but they usually happen in crunch periods. All analysts I know, in my bank or others all work these hours, with some having an average closer to the 90 some towards the 70s. 100hrs constantly is just not true. Barely ever does anybody come into the office on both days of the weekend and even on the day they come in its not usually as if its like a regular day from 9-12 or something.

 

when things are busy: 9am - 1am on weekdays, 2pm - 10pm or so on sunday and possibly saturday as well (roughly 90-100 hours)

when things are really busy: on avg, 9am-2am or so on weekdays, with maybe an all-nighter (rare) or close (not as rare) on 1 or two days, 11am - 1am or so both weekends (could be later) (somewhere between 110-120; this does not happen that often for me)

on avg: 9am-11pm, with maybe 6-10 hours on the weekends, depending on the work load; lately this has been more like 9am-10pm or so

summer time: 9am-7pm sometimes, with no real weekend work (maybe a few hours on sunday, sometimes you can just citrix in and get it done from home)

 

Analysts love to exaggerate their hours; in my experience the average is around 75 a week. However, don't underestimate the crappiness of working a 75 hour week consistently, especially coming in from undergrad when you are required to be in class for what, 15 hours a week. It's a huge lifestyle change whether you are working 70 hours a week or 90.

 

Probably not that relevant to you, but here in Dubai our analysts generally work 9 to 10 weekdays and say 4 hours per weekend in an average week. A busy or very busy week would be 9 to 12:30 or 1am (probably with an all-nighter somewhere in there) with half the day Saturday (Sunday to you guys) and a few hours Friday (our Saturday).

 

I'm an analyst in non-BB firm (but not some regional no-name either), and I'd say mine are more like:

9 AM - 11 PM Mon-Thurs 9 AM - 9 PM Fri 11 AM - 8 PM Sat 11 AM - 7 PM Sun

So average week = 85 hours

Of course there are weeks whenever I get off Sunday. Of course there are weeks whenever I don't leave before 1 am on weekdays. But this all averages out.

The longest strech of 6-plus hour days I've worked, by the way, is 7 weeks in a row (my group is all about the "no all nighter if possible" factor and not the "okay, here's a day off" lifestyle)

 

Aceman - I hope PowerMonkey doesn't mind me reposting this, but in another thread about hours as you move up the ranks he wrote the following, which I found to be very helpful:

1st year/stub associate - +5 to +10 analyst hours. Assuming you weren't an analyst before you went to b-school you will be in the office more than the analysts your are working with. You will have no idea what you are doing and will slow down the entire process. Everyone will think you are worthless for the first 6 months. You have absolutely no control over your schedule.

2nd / 3rd year associate - -0 to -10 analyst hours. You probably have some idea of what you are doing at this point, efficiency gains will kick in and you can get shit done. That being said you will be on more projects then your analysts, so you will have more hot items at once. You have a little control over your schedule.

Last year as an associate/1st year VP - -10 to -20 analyst hours. True efficiency gains, projects under your control, other associates doing work under you. At this point you set timetables and manage both above and below you. At this point unless something is really under crunch time you will no longer be ordering seamless at the office. An efficient person will have a lot of control.

VP-SVP-MD - Its all up to you, you are managing client relationships, meetings etc. If you like to be in the office you can, likewise you can make everything a call you can take from your couch in your absurdly sized house in NJ or CT.

To what AltESV said, cut and dried hours are not the way to think about it at any level. If you read the posts around here, you will see that is the case. One group you might be in everynight to 1am as an ass or an analyst. Another group you will be out every night at 10pm. Think in terms of how much those around/below you will be working and the control you have over your life.

From this thread: http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/hours-for-associates-vps-mds

 

At 70-80 hours, I wouldn't say your chances of advancement are bad, but they're lower than most bankers your age would accept. Like it or not, advancement in IB is based primarily on the hours, and you're up against people who are willing to nail themselves to the wall.

 

"Like it or not, advancement in IB is based primarily on the hours, and you're up against people who are willing to nail themselves to the wall."

This is true. Because IB work is not very difficult, it's almost impossible to be bad at it. Thus, being a standout doesn't mean being smart, it just means killing yourself day in and day out.

 

agreed even if you get all your shit done you need to be in the office for face time and just in case you get a late night assignment. im sure the other analysts love that you go home at 10 while they are there until 2 am every day.

 

I work at a BB as an analyst and I usually work from 9 am - 9 pm. If there is a deal closing, I will stay really late or all night. But on the average day, I am out of the office around 9 or 10.

 
  1. Staffing plays the biggest role - if you are thin, you will be working very long hours.

  2. Coverage groups generally work slightly less than product groups. Varies from bank to bank, but M&A will almost always work the longest hours.

  3. Regional makes no difference - if it is front office, you are going to be in the office a lot.

  4. Size (boutique vs. MM vs. BB) makes no difference - if there is deal flow, you are going to be working long hours.

  5. I have heard that HK banking is particularly brutal. London and New York are more or less the same (in my experience).

 

It's not really fair to clump all regional officers together as they vary themselves. Houston is generally considered to be more relaxed and less about facetime. However, the deal flow can cause a lot of hours. There really no point in attempting to making a sweeping generalization as it varies so much, not only from city to city but from group to group.

 

as an analyst in a boutique ( assuming local ones, not the really well known ones) you should expect 9am - 9/10pm on weekdays and few weekends

If you are in a well known one, you better hope your MD doesn't bring in 3 deals at once ( hence the 9am-3/4 am days start)

 

Interesting that this was said though:

"One of the triggers for epilepsy is exhaustion and it may be that because Moritz had been working so hard his fatigue was a trigger for the seizure that killed him," said Coroner Mary Hassell at a Poplar Coroner's Court inquest into the intern's death.

"Do you like Huey Lewis and the News?"
 

Depends on your group, bank, location, and dealflow. 100 hours a week could mean straight cranking 15 hours a day, 7 days a week, but usually there's at least some downtime (when you're waiting on turns or publishing or whatever).

 

Depends on the work load and on the group. Face time drives up the hours significantly, especially for first years analysts/associates. Small groups tend to have less of a face time component.

The real trick to managing the hours is to KILL IT in the first 6 months. I mean just kill it. Earn a reputation. Then, when there is some downtime you can go grab dinner with your girlfriend, get a pair of shoes, get a haircut, etc. When you know a turn isn't coming until 4am, you can take off at 8pm and get some sleep.

You will work a lot. Establish yourself and don't be scared to claim the downtime as your own.

 

From a blog of a 1st year analyst:

"The wave of death is coming to a close, but it's been a brutal 3 week start to the new year's. I've been sleeping through meetings, through calls, in the elevator, everywhere. Going home at 3 or 4 day after day, with 8 am calls or 9 am presentations the next day. Going into work on a Sunday at 10 in the morning and leaving at 5 the next morning... When people asked me how I was doing, I would mutter, "miserable, ask me again when I wake up". I am averaging 5.5 hours of sleep and 15 hours of work in the month of January. But last night, got home at 5, and slept till noon. That was the best sleep ever. Ever. And surprisingly, feeling surprisingly free and happy at the moment...

And the funny thing is, half the first year analysts in our office are pulling worse hours than this. One guy's done something like 3 all-nighters and 2 near-ones in the past week, on 4 simultaneous projects."

 
patekphilippe:
I'm an analyst at a top tier bulge bracket and recently we've been given the option to work 8:30 - 4:30 because the firm want's to encourage work-life balance. It's created this touchy feely atmosphere and everyone gets along with each other now.
I'm assuming this is a joke? Sorry if I'm doing a bad job recognizing the sarcasm, if it is a joke.
 

"if you have to ask how expensive something is, you can't afford it."? That's like banking hours, especially at the analyst level - "if you have to ask how many hours we work, you couldn't handle it."

 
structure:
accountability

also, 60k a year would attract a different crowd, much less desiriable than 140k+

this is true. ppl need to be fu..ing hungry for this job to make the immense cash, and are willing to be the bitches of senior ppl. one thing I do not really understand! Why do you need such a high GPA and be top notch to get into i-banks? The work is nothing more than doing analysis on Excel. Seriously...Do not tell me that only Ivy Leaguers can do this job efficiently! Just in comparison: McKinsey pays 70k in total and I guess ppl still wanna go there. I think they need a little more "brain" to be able to do their job. What do you think?

 

People are still mistaking the bonus for the total comp. Guys, the bonus number on the spreadsheet is just a bonus. That doesn't include the rest of the compensation. Even first-year banking analysts this year are making well over 140 unless they're at a no-name bank.

 
Mis Ind:
People are still mistaking the bonus for the total comp. Guys, the bonus number on the spreadsheet is just a bonus. That doesn't include the rest of the compensation. Even first-year banking analysts this year are making well over 140 unless they're at a no-name bank.

The avg. I-banker makes around 100 k. Only at the top few banks is compensation so high.

 

And to answer the original poster's question: entrenched culture of long hours, flat deal teams, unwillingness of senior bankers to extend deadlines, inability of two people to effectively share a model. And, as Structure said, accountability.

It actually could change, I think, if the industry made a concerted effort to lessen hours... but it's not going to. So shut up, suck it up, and make bank. Sounds harsh, but it's what we all do.

 
It actually could change, I think, if the industry made a concerted effort to lessen hours... but it's not going to. So shut up, suck it up, and make bank. Sounds harsh, but it's what we all do..

Why should we want it to change? I would rather earn $100k for 100 hrs work than $50k for 50hrs. Apart from a few wimps and a few 'work life balance' harpies most people in the industry are happy with the trade-offs (and there's always commercial banking for those who want a lesser workload and a comfortable salary). Of course if they were offering the same salary for 75 or 50 hours then I would like that but simple economics dictates that it ain't gonna happen.

 
tubs:
if you made 100k last year, im assuming u did something terribly wrong, or work for a bank that underpays.

Mis Ind is right, 140 is a relatively low/medium (all in) number for analysts this year and last.

140k was not low/medium last year. no first yrs at a bulge made that with 80k top bonus and 55k base. 140 will be low end for this yr though, with projected 100k top bonus and 60k base.

 

weren't you the one the other day asking if you might be able to get an interview with your low gpa, meanwhile you are claiming to know the actual salary range for bankers? 100k all in is not what they make. this year its looking like top bucket first years will be makin at least 160. 2nd bucket prob 150, 3rd around 140, much higher than 100k eh?

 

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GameTheory
98.9
10
numi's picture
numi
98.8
success
From 10 rejections to 1 dream investment banking internship

“... I believe it was the single biggest reason why I ended up with an offer...”