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Mar 13, 2011

I know you're interested in consulting, but someone from the LGBT community posted a relevant thread about banking if interested.

http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/are-ear-pier...

Mar 13, 2011

One of my senior managers is a T. Hasn't stopped her from ascending the ranks quickly.

Mar 13, 2011

One of our managers is pretty flaming. He even introduced his bf to some coworkers. Moving up just like anyone else.

Mar 13, 2011

Nobody really cares anymore - smart, competent people are very hard to find as it is and being a bigot is simply too expensive. Perform, don't make an issue out of it - be yourself just don't be obnoxious (there are still some people around who might react the wrong way) but in the end no need to hide either - we had an MD bring his bf around, was interesting for about 20 sec, then everyone moved on to more relevant topics like Charlie Sheen

Mar 13, 2011

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Mar 13, 2011

At least in BB's, no one gives a crap. Don't be flaming and you are good for the most part. Most people have no problem with gay people, they have a problem with overly camp guys whining and acting like chicks. This applies to some straight guys as well.

Mar 14, 2011

Sweet, so I'm hearing:

-You can even be a tranny and still get promoted (ivoteforthatguy)
-You can be Oscar Wilde and still get promoted, so long as you perform (abacab)
-The world is largely over this shit, just do your job well, this is a meritocracy after all (ilovenyguy)

[Great news]

as well as

awm55:

At least in BB's, no one gives a crap. Don't be flaming and you are good for the most part. Most people have no problem with gay people, they have a problem with overly camp guys whining and acting like chicks. This applies to some straight guys as well.

-I'm okay with you being gay so long as you look, sound, and act like straight people so that no one would ever think of accusing you of the sin of homosexuality

Can any readers attest personally to their experiences regarding coming out at the office, working within their LGBT networking groups, or handling the subtle homophobias that leak out from time to time?

Thanks!

Mar 14, 2011
persimmon:

Sweet, so I'm hearing:

-You can even be a tranny and still get promoted (ivoteforthatguy)
-You can be Oscar Wilde and still get promoted, so long as you perform (abacab)
-The world is largely over this shit, just do your job well, this is a meritocracy after all (ilovenyguy)

[Great news]

as well as

awm55:

At least in BB's, no one gives a crap. Don't be flaming and you are good for the most part. Most people have no problem with gay people, they have a problem with overly camp guys whining and acting like chicks. This applies to some straight guys as well.

-I'm okay with you being gay so long as you look, sound, and act like straight people so that no one would ever think of accusing you of the sin of homosexuality

Can any readers attest personally to their experiences regarding coming out at the office, working within their LGBT networking groups, or handling the subtle homophobias that leak out from time to time?

Thanks!

I should clarify, I may have come across as a bit harsh. Most people I know (including most gay guys) find overly camp gay guys (and straight men for that matter) insufferably annoying. It has very little to do with sexuality. I have no problem with homosexuality, but if you are mincing through the office you are definitely going to have a harder time at least from a social stand point.

You also should remember that these firms are corporations, people are smart enough to understand that if they said anything to you the impending law suits would cost a hell of allot more than any amount of revenue one person could bring in. I really would not worry about it too much.

Mar 14, 2011

Actually remind me of a funny story around LGBT. We had this office event couple of years ago where all the interest groups were introduced. Just generic who we are, what we do, etc. LGBT group came up, they talked, then people clapped (which was not the case with others). It seemed like people were so shell shocked, at least the guy introducing (Indian descent), that he forgot to introduce the next group up, African-American.

Mar 14, 2011

mincing is such a good word.

Mar 14, 2011

Overly campy gay guys are sort of the same as valley girls (think legally blond). It's not that anyone cares what your sexuality is so long as your personality isn't distracting.

Mar 14, 2011
monkeysama:

Overly campy gay guys are sort of the same as valley girls (think legally blond). It's not that anyone cares what your sexuality is so long as your personality isn't distracting.

haha, this is true

Mar 14, 2011

I've done IBD and consulting. These are conformity-based industries. Being different does not win you points, but acting different surely will cost you plenty. It's hetero WASP male cultures - the more you conform, the better. I'm not saying that it's right, but that's the way it is.

Mar 14, 2011

It sounds like this has been pretty well-treated, but nobody gives a fuck as long as you fit in. If you bring your boyfriend to the office Christmas party, as long as he's not some weirdo hispter you won't get any raised eyebrows.

Mar 14, 2011

Can anyone comment on less lawsuit-worthy instances of discrimination? Such as out and obvious gay associates being promoted less frequently / not sponsored for MBA?

Mar 14, 2011
persimmon:

Can anyone comment on less lawsuit-worthy instances of discrimination? Such as out and obvious gay associates being promoted less frequently / not sponsored for MBA?

This could potentially be an issue, but if you don't make your sexuality an issue then it won't be an issue. Don't be looking for opportunities to call out people who you think may be treating you differently because you are gay unless it is blazingly obvious. This sort of behavior will hurt you more in the long run.

I guess the best advice is not to let your sexuality define who you are as a person. I know some a gay guys do let this happen by adhering to all the stereotypes, but if you don't do this you don't have anything to worry about.

Mar 14, 2011
awm55:

This could potentially be an issue, but if you don't make your sexuality an issue then it won't be an issue. Don't be looking for opportunities to call out people who you think may be treating you differently because you are gay unless it is blazingly obvious. This sort of behavior will hurt you more in the long run.

I guess the best advice is not to let your sexuality define who you are as a person. I know some a gay guys do let this happen by adhering to all the stereotypes, but if you don't do this you don't have anything to worry about.

I'm not calling only you out specifically here, but will use you as an example to help highlight the powers of heteronormativity and borderline homophobia ever present in the corporate and larger world.

People don't "adhere" to stereotypes because they want to or decide to. People are who they are. People live authentically and just "are" themselves... having to fight one's nature essence in order to NOT fit into a stereotype that you / the straight world / the larger corporate world finds "annoying" or "too much" or "too defining of who he is" is an example of one of the pressures and roadblocks faced by lgbt people today.

The queer movement isn't for acceptance of "passing" queers (a tranny who looks like a 'real' woman, a gay man who is only noticeably gay because he brings his partner to the Christmas party) but for the freedom for all hard-working, determined successful people to bring their Authentic Selves to work, whether it fits into a stereotype or not.

I need to point this out so "allies" can't smugly sit back and say, "It doesn't matter if you're gay anymore. We're over that, we're progressive. Just don't act like a faggot and we'll let you join us at the bar to watch football."

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Mar 14, 2011

If you look at the acceptance of LGBT stuff by age group it's been gaining in the younger ages and slowly moving up the age bracket as time goes on. That means that people who are cool with it in college and high school are being cool with it as they get older and all the old bigots are dying off.

In 25 years time, if WSO is still around, I think a lot of young men are going to stop asking, "Is it ok if I wear my piercings to the office?" and start asking, "Is it ok if I wear my new skirt to the office?"

Until then you got buck up and keep your "authentic self" to your own self. Shit sucks, but that's the world we live in. If you want genuine advice on what is work appropriate I think you've gotten it op. Arguing with people on the internet isn't going to change the world.

Mar 14, 2011
monkeysama:

Until then you got buck up and keep your "authentic self" to your own self. Shit sucks, but that's the world we live in. If you want genuine advice on what is work appropriate I think you've gotten it op. Arguing with people on the internet isn't going to change the world.

I agree with this. I realize that sexual orientation is one of the most important elements of one's "self," but everybody has elements of their personality that they don't display for the sake of conformity. If you don't like what might be very loosely termed "straight male stuff" (you mentioned bars and football), but your coworkers all do, it doesn't matter if you're attracted to men, women, both, or neither, you have to pretend to give a shit in order to fit in. My general impression is that consulting is probably a more tolerant environment than banking/trading, but that might not be fair to bankers and traders. Nonetheless, if for whatever reason your "true self" doesn't fit in, you'd be wise to keep it under wraps until some time in the future when it does. That doesn't mean you have to, but you can always be your real self when you go home.

My more general advice would be to keep your personal life completely out of the office, regardless of your sexual orientation, and that means not a single word. I'm straight, but with the exception of bringing a girlfriend to office social functions, only the few coworkers who are genuine out-of-office my friends know anything whatsoever about my personal life. If you're worried, do it like that. Even if you somehow get a homophobic manager (and I've yet to meet one), they can't hold your orientation against you if it never comes up.

Mar 14, 2011

You're too defensive.

Mar 14, 2011

Huh I guess WSOasis screens its posts. I wonder if it will let this one through, it didn't let my last sarcastic one post.

Mar 14, 2011

Also, people throw monkey shit at me for the dumbest reasons.

Mar 14, 2011
persimmon:

Also, people throw monkey shit at me for the dumbest reasons.

Welcome to the club chief

If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses - Henry Ford

Mar 14, 2011

Contrary to your belief, a lot of behaviors are socially created - not intrinsic to one's nature.

Mar 14, 2011

What you need to worry about is your attitude. If you come out looking for anyone to drop a "faggot" or "homo" you're going to find someone that does it.

NOBODY GIVES A SHIT. Do your work well, be decent to work with, and that is all that matters. And yea, a flamboyantly gay guy is going to get judged to shit, just like a valley girl would for being fucking obnoxious (the only difference in this situation is if the chick is hot, guys might wanna keep her around... but she'd have to be like Jessica Alba hot, or Brad Pitt hot, if you're gay).

Mar 22, 2011
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Mar 22, 2011
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