Lifestyle post promotion to VP?

I'm in a similar spot to your SO so I can give you some guidance, albeit every shop is slightly different and I don't know the specifics of his role. Generally most days I leave the office around 7, home for dinner with the wife, watch some TV together and then from 9 or 10 onwards I'm in my study either checking work from the juniors or reading up on industry news or preparing for meetings the following day. The late work at home is not that intense. In saying that, if there's a live transaction I'm in deal mode and all bets are off - I could be the office with the whole team jamming until 3am every day of the week inc weekends. Unfortunately that's the nature of the industry, you just have to accept it. I'm lucky in that my wife doesn't have any issues with me not being home during those periods, she would prefer me to do my job well and be successful because it makes me happy. The best thing you can do for your SO is to be supportive during those busy times. If you make it hard for him by guilting him for not being home, I guarantee it will cause problems for your relationship, because the industry is already hard enough as it is and he will be ultimately forced to make a decision between his girl or his job. Maybe just give it some perspective and imagine how you feel if he was in the military and away for 2-6 months on end in a war zone. The fact he is home most days and on weekends is already a win. Plus ou've already made it through the hard yards, he's not lying when he says it gets better from here.

I know this is your relationship and none of my business, but I'm going to give you the difficult advice, better to end it now than dealing with all the future heartbreaks and troubles. Banking hours decrease at higher level, but travel requirement increases and unpredictability is still there. My wife is also a doctor, but both of us are pretty independent types and don't need that much together time to make it work.

Wow...Coming to WSO for Relationship advice. That's like going to WallStreetBets for long-term asset management advice.

Sorry. Couldn't help myself.

What happens in, say, two years when you decide to run off for a few months for Mohs training. Will you expect the support of your significant other? Or...? Try to put yourself in his shoes and think about that question.

Just a thought...

If the problem is indeed his actions when he's not working, then you need to tread carefully when you address it. Be honest about how you feel about him not being fully in the moment when you're together, helping you around the house, doing small things to show he cares, etc. Just don't make it about his work because that will drive a wedge.

From my own perspective I try to help out with house chores and do interesting things on weekends. However if I'm in deal-mode there's very little on my mind except work - I find it hard to have basic let alone meaningful conversations about anything except work. On weekends all I want to do is either catch up on sleep or rest watching mindless tv for the few hours I have to myself. Its a temporary phase and my partner leaves me alone during those horror weeks because she understands that this job requires such an intense focus at the expense of everything else in life. Then when the deal is over things revert back to normal and I make a point to do more than my fair share of the housework - because I am always aware of the attention deficit I created. Seems like your partner just needs a bit more awareness of how you feel and needs to make more of an effort to true up the balance, again just be sympathetic when you raise it.

The advice you are getting here is good. I am a few years ahead of your SO and made all the same promises. VP lifestyle does not improve much. While the true in the office hours required are slightly lower than an Associate's, the travel is worse and the stress from having to actively drive deals and show progress toward SVP/Director level responsibility is much worse. I am not home for dinner or bedtime more than once a week (best case). It is a constant source of struggle because, whatever you say now, there will be times you will resent him for not being home and every time he leaves the office early and gets flack or misses the potential to score points toward the next level he will have pangs of resentment toward you. Tough situation but trying to be brutally honest.

I am not a VP and do not have first-hand insight into what a VP lifestyle is like. I can give you my opinion, but don't want to lead you astray, scare you, or give you false hope.

From reading thread, it seems like the issue is less about your SO's hours and more about the fact that he doesn't "show he cares through actions" when you are together. In my experience, that phrase has been an ex-girlfriend catch all for "I can't articulate what I want, but I want something different".

I would challenge you to be specific with what you are looking for from him when you are together instead of hoping he will start doing something different or assuming he should know what you want. Doing the opposite of both of these things (that is, using nebulous phrases and not being transparent with expectations) is a surefire way to end up in an unhappy relationship.

I would also recommend you not assume he doesn't sacrifice anything for you (#3 from the list posted on the 22nd above). If he is making time to talk to you for extended periods of time on a regular basis during the week, that is a massive sacrifice. As you probably understand, there is always something a junior in finance can be doing. To allocate one's time to something other than work is, in its purest form, a sacrifice. He is sacrificing sleep / career advancement / peace of mind in order to interact with you - you should take comfort in the fact that he values your relationship enough to do that. If I were an associate up for a VP promotion (as I am I would dedicate 100% of my time to ensuring I got the promotion - all else would be second to that.

EDIT - Just as an addendum here: You speak a lot about the things your SO is not doing to better your life, but I'm wondering what some of the things you do to add value to his life are. Obviously not trying to be inflammatory or aggressive whatsoever - I am just curious to hear as I think every relationship is a bit different and I would love to comp what you do against what I've experienced.

Thank you for your thoughts everyone. We broke up yesterday. The final conclusion was there is a difference in long term values and we will never make each other happy. I care a lot about family and he would never be around in that way. Me and family would always come second forever. He doesn't see himself being less intense about work ever. 5 years ago he told me he would re-prioritize in the future but he cannot commit to doing that now.

I feel like I just lost 7 years of my life and a love that I will never find again.

Going to PM vs. draw this out publicly.

It'll improve.

With him about to make VP, and you as a doctor, y'all should be planning a wedding and an early retirement.

A piece of advice--he may not have a choice but to leave banking at some point. Maybe he's great at his job, but being a great analyst/associate/VP doesn't necessarily translate to being a great director or managing director. At the VP level or below, you're not really responsible for selling anything. You don't bring in deals for the firm. At least, you don't get judged on bringing in deals. As a director or MD, you need to bring in deals. You need to produce meaningful revenues for the firm every year or you'll be kicked out.

It's probably not what you'd like to hear, but most of the kids on here are just that--they're kids. They only imagine that their bosses work less hard than they do. Sometimes that's true, but directors and MDs do different types of work. There is a lot more travelling. You have to see clients in person. I don't know if you mentioned your boyfriend's industry coverage (which sector he covers), but even if he covers tech and lives in San Francisco, he'll have to travel a fair amount. Or if he covers financial services in NY, he'll have to travel a fair amount. And I specifically selected those two sectors and those two cities because if he works in one of those roles in one of those locations, he'll travel A LOT less than if he covers almost any other sector or lives in any other city.

Investment bankers want to deal with C-suite executives which almost universally sit in corporate headquarters. When you're selling something, you go to the customer, so while his work hours may improve slightly as a VP, director and MD, he's not going to be home that often. It's almost 9pm in New York right now, and I guarantee I can call a number of Ds or MDs in the city to come meet me for a drink at this very moment.

In that sense, if he wants to be an investment banker at a major firm for the rest of his career, he's always going to be working in some form or another. Just because he's not sitting at the office looking at spreadsheets or PowerPoint presentations doesn't mean he'll be home. Fortunately, the two of you should be able to afford a nanny.

Once he makes VP, he can lateral at a more senior level to a corporate development or private equity role, but the hours there aren't much better. In short, he's not likely to have a 9-5 job any time in the near future even if he laterals to something related with slightly fewer hours.

I still work from 8:30am to about 9:30pm every day. During the weekend, I work about 5-7 hours including client lunch/golf/dinner. I probably take out less than 10 vacation/sick days the last 2-3 years. Been in this industry for 12 years.

This is a fake post. Your subject line is a clear indication that you are an ibanker. Only people in finance say “post” when they really mean “after”.

It's really not as complicated as some of the responses are making it sound.

His hours will get better. It's harder to say exactly how they'll get better because every week is different. One time he'll have a light weekend. Another time he'll get home earlier. But the big picture is, you'll see more of him as time goes by.

Biggest mistake you're making is assuming that VP is a big change. It doesn't change overnight, it happens gradually. Think more year-by-year, not rank by rank.

Understand that VPs are arguably the most often fired people at the bank. When times get lean, the people at the top and bottom are safer. MD's can point to their book of clients and analysts/associates can point to their low salaries. VPs making 500k+ with no clients are easy picking. So there will be pressure after promotion to keep the foot on the gas and establish yourself. But VP2 is easier than VP1, VP3 is easier than VP2 and so forth. Year by year.

I really hope this guy - having sacrificed a 7-year long relationship - makes it to MD and then has a long and fulfilling career as a banker. Going to be regret on a higher plane if he washes out or discovers that he hates it...

My thoughts FWIW.

Get to the bottom of why he wants to be in the industry. Materialism? Prestige? Competitiveness with you career-wise? From my point of view, your career mix will not allow you both to spend an adequate amount of time on family planning/raising. I assume you both clearly do not have any money issues, and could still live very comfortably with a 20-30% HH income cut.

Marriage usually works best when one of the partners sacrifices their career to dedicate time to the children/household. This is typically the female role as women are nurturing/conscious while men are aggressive/competitive. It is no mystery why the divorce rate in America is directly correlated with the growth of dual-earner households.

You both will need to figure out who is seriously willing to sacrifice their career for your future family. I would suggest considering a qualified couple's therapist to help guide your conversations.

From my (non-NYC) experience, the hours get slightly better in the sense that you have a bit more control over your schedule, depending on the group of course. I know plenty of VPs that routinely leave around 6-7, have dinner with the family, then hop back on to do work until 12 every night. So from the family's standpoint, they may view this as more favorable since there is less of an expectation for routinely burning the midnight oil at the office.

The downside of the promotion is two-fold: 1) almost guaranteed to be more travel and 2) at times it is harder to mentally disconnect from the job, which can offset the increased amount of time that you may interact with him.

Dude I’m just wondering why he is dating you if you don’t understand what real work and dedication take..

If you don’t like his lifestyle and banking lifestyle in general, date someone who works at a tech start up or in asset management. Plenty single non bankers out there...

Looking at your posts and at the responses, sounds like you've already made up your mind, and you're straight up just looking for the courage to end it.

The hours are rough, from the MDs that I've met, the hours get better, but it doesn't sound like it will be enough to suffice your need for "companionship". How much face time do you need to have with him? And you're complaining about it being difficult, but you guys are doing long distance?

If you can't deal with the rough hours (even though you're not the one working them), and you can't come to a compromise, then you should end it. Preferably before Jan so that he can spend his bonus freely on coke and bottle services to impress the 22 year babes at the club.

Wow, this thread took us on a ride. Rare for a thread to include real-time closure.

OP, You seem to have a calm demeanor. Maybe your personality type got you this far in the relationship. Con: your personality type can deal with a lot of pressure, more than normal. Pros: You make it through tough times and achieve more than others. In this case, all you're achieving is joy so it's different than your career where you're achieving success. 1. If this is a great partner and there's no logical solution you will likely walk away once that logic is enough for you. 2. If this is the only guy, it's tough but in the end there's no where else to go bec this is it for you and you go through thick and thin together. Don't mix choices 1 and 2. You can have (2) even if you end up making choice (1) so no need to mix the two choices. Some ppl feel guilty for not doing (2), no guilt here since they are independent of each other. Problem with your personality like i said is you take a long time to decide (not bec of the 7yrs, but bec of your approach which is borne out of your personality). But ultimately, the choice will come down the road to pick between the two, it all depends how far you as the individual are down that road. It def depends on your laid back, understanding attitude in weighing all options. The upside with your approach is that when you decide, it will be a solid answer and you won't look back. This kind of stuff usually takes longer than imagined. Medicine, IB are just backdrops.

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It means he is prioritizing his banking career over others at this stage. Truth be told, the lifestyle doesn't improve as one becomes more senior. Yes, he probably does not need to spend as much time in the office as a junior banker but he will spend more time on new responsibilities (e.g. traveling/client meetings) as he becomes more senior.

just spend his money and sleep with the gardener while he's away like every other ibankers gf

I know friend, female, married to ibanker. Met in grad school. She started off as an analyst in corporate banking out of undergrad but didn't want to pursue any sort of banking any further. He got in after a summer internship. So she completely understood his situation. Were fine, living together. She handled her alone time well, regimented routine, etc. Once they had their kid, it was rough times due to the imbalance. The thing is, he expressed early on his desire to get out at some point, which I guess made it easier to handle (had the ups and downs on it). Got promoted VP, but still long hours than desired, though could come in later. Was able to get into buyside recently on the referral of several ex-co workers. Still long hours for a father of a toddler, but much better than before.

So OP, you made the right move. If you ever want a family, forget it. He's already stated his long-term desire. and is too immersed in that world Yea, I guess you 'wasted' time. But things happen for a reason, and don't look at it negatively. There are people in worse situations that make it work for the best. There's no time like the present to open your eyes and pursue your life objectives. Hope you find the happiness and peace that you're looking for.

For what it’s worth, I know how it was to be on the other side as an analyst, not an associate/VP. I was in a long distance relationship — we were on different coasts. She was still in college while I was working 80-100 hr weeks. In the end, we broke up, but I learned a lot from it.

She was always telling me I didn’t spend enough time talking to her. I was frustrated because I didn’t have a lot of time to give, but what I did have, I gave freely. I took at least an hour every day to talk to her daily and texted her throughout the day. When I worked 16+ hrs a day, all I wanted to do is sleep or drink (myself to sleep). You also forget that there’s a lot of boring stuff that takes time outside of work (commuting, eating, laundry, etc.), so I felt like I was sacrificing a lot just for that. I also paid for her to fly out monthly while we were in a relationship, which added up to real economic cost. During those trips, I had to prioritize all the little things that had to happen (laundry, etc.) to make time for her. She never noticed those small things.

She was always telling me that if I cared about the relationship, I should leave... but it’s just not that easy to leave IB. The entire time we were together I was paying off student debt. Add to that, the monthly trips, the gifts I bought her, and money I sent to family turned into golden handcuffs. That’s beside the fact that I took literally years of my life to attain that position. Coming from a non-target to IB, it was especially hard for me to “just leave.” It takes time, effort, and luck to find a position in finance doing interesting things with similar pay and better hours. Did I try to leave? Yes, but juggling work, a relationship, and personal stuff made it difficult for me to interview. I have to practice a lot for interviews, so it was only after we broke up that I had enough time to do all that.

The biggest lesson I learned was for the relationship to work, we had to be at similar levels of busy. As a college student, she was just hanging out a lot vs. me working all the time. That imbalance definitely caused rifts, especially with the amount of relationship maintenance she required. Also, I think that I could have done a better job of being positive around her. The people/environment of banking and lack of sleep tended to make me an irritable, impatient, negative person. Often, because I wasn’t doing hobbies or had much of a social life, our conversations turned out to be unloading — not good for a long distance relationship, much less any relationship. She finally “understood” when she graduated and worked in consulting, though we were in different places in our life by then.

If you're looking for an hours comparison, assuming he's working at a solid bank (solid MM, BB/EB), his current 70-80 hours/week should probably drop to 60-70 once he becomes VP. At the end of the day, he's still working 9am-8pm most nights, and then when he comes home he'll constantly be in contact with the analysts/associates who are being fucked with work at the office to send edits/comments back.

The life of a banker doesn't end when you come home. And for a guy who's clearly looking to make it up and seems determined, he's going to need to grind hard as VP to make Director, so yes, he will work long hours. If he does get to that level (Director/MD), and that's a huge IF (that's the hardest leap up the chain), his hours will finally drop to 50-60. But at the Director level (and especially at the MD level), these guys are gone on travel all the time. 2 weeks/month is pretty much mandatory, and could be more than that (I've seen Directors traveling 1 week/month and I've seen Directors traveling 3 weeks/month).

I respect your position, and I get how frustrating that must be; the life of a banker is that of a glorified slave; I may get flamed for this, but unlike most of this forum, which glorifies the life of a banker and take a hostile stance against how you're feeling, I'm going to give it to you straight. You're not selfish for thinking this, your concerns are valid, and money can only do so much. I got out of banking as fast as I possible could once I saw the lives of the senior people. They're never offline, half of them have been divorced, and I had one director who suffered 3 strokes by the time he was 30 from the stress/long hours that he was in a wheelchair for months. No amount of money/stress is worth all that, at least to me.

I'm not going to tell you what to do, just providing the real. Some SOs can deal with all this, but most can't. I know I coudn't, which is why I would just make things easy and not date a banker, to spare both their time and mine; I sure as hell could not have done it for as long as you have, which I respect the hell out of. But as a long-term SO, I understand your position is much harder here. I wish you the best of luck