London HF / Life / Comp
Hi Monkeys -
I currently work for a sector-focused fund in NYC and am pretty happy in my current role. A recruiter recently pinged me about a role in London (think MLP, BAM, P72). I've always wanted to visit London and have considered working there as well.
A few questions for monkeys (apologize if I missed this on correlated threads):
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For native London HF guys, how do you enjoy work/life? How is the HF scene? For ex-pats that have moved to London, how do you enjoy it? Any regrets about moving?
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What would be the expected differential in cost of living in London as compared to NYC?
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What would comp structure / package look like at a MM in London at the likes of MLP, BAM, P72 (generally speaking just want a sense of Base/Bonus/PnL % if applicable and "all in" for 1st yr, granted I know this is variable and performance dependent) How are exit opps from a MM in London (single manager, other MM, etc. - I suppose this broadly ties in the general HF scene)?
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If you received an offer, what would be your "ask"? I can initially think of a competitive base (not sure what that would exactly entail), relocation, sponsorship (obviously), sign on bonus...anything else I may be missing?
Thanks in advance gents.
Bump, would also be curious to know. OP - do you know if you'd be covering US stocks in London or more EMEA/APAC-focused? If US, do you have an idea of what market hours you'd follow / how that impacts work-life?
I have yet to fully flesh out details, but my understanding is US stocks. Not too sure about how that would translate to market hours though, given LDN is 5 hours ahead...
Bump, would be curious to hear
Also bump, nobody in london? My understanding is that for Quant positions in HFs, pay is much lower than NY (like around half) at least at the start
Native London HF guy to answer a few questions here. Caveat these are purely my opinions / anecdotes, and I am coming from a L/S and event-driven perspective.
1. Work/life balance is pretty good. I've never worked in NY but I work for a global fund HQ'd in NY, I'm there 4-5 weeks a year, and it's definitely more relaxed in London. It's just a less aggressive (for lack of a better word) mindset. The NY expats I know in the industry here wouldn't think of moving back. HF scene is a little smaller (i.e. it takes a little longer to find / move jobs).
2. Roughly the same / marginally cheaper in London for the same lifestyle (it's slightly more convenient to live a bit further out, relatively)
3. Base should be ballpark £120-160k. Re: bonus and take rate, that obviously just depends on your pod's AUM, headcount, and seniority. 10-18% net take rate at the pod level is ballpark, with PM taking 50-80% of the bonus pool depending on team structure / how senior the analysts are.
4. Base is quite standardised within each MM. I think you covered the rest. Most MMs are pretty tough on sign-ons unless you have something in writing (deferred, existing guarantees, YTD P&L with an existing % payout in your contract), or if the PM is desperate to get you (in which case it's coming out of their pocket at year end).
Re: market hours, London is not too bad to cover the US apart from during earnings.
This is great. Thanks so much for the insight.
What is total comp like? I know it varies, but if you could give an average or range.
Thanks - this is helpful.
Do you know what hours would be (time in, time out) for someone that covers U.S. securities for L/S equity? Any insight would be helpful as I am currently debating whether consider options in London or if the time zone difference would make it too much of a pain to stay on top of things.
Best,
Shaun
It really depends on your PM / pod's style. Anecdotally, I know people who work fairly close to US market hours (in at 10/11am, out at 9pm+), and people who work London hours (in at 8am, out at 6/7pm and occasionally stay later when things are busy). If you have a PM who is constantly trying to trade stuff pre/post-market then it will probably be painful.
When I used to cover Europe + US L/S at a SM HF, I did London hours. Overall I thought it was fine, although post-close earnings calls kinda sucked. I did them all from home, but it still took up an annoying number of evenings.
Re 3: is that Associate pay? (i.e. just out of IB). I thought even at MM associate pay would be closer to Banking associate's base. Not sure if I'm mistaken
Higher end of that number is more geared towards experienced hire with buyside experience. I'm very reluctant to say X experience = Y base, because I have seen so many people seemingly under / overpaid relative to their experience.
I am very out of touch with banking - what is associate salary like these days?
I’d say bonus range is realistically $50k (your 3 months’ severance) to single digit millions.
But I’ll humour you for an “average” in terms of how people considering the move to MM estimate how much they will make.
Let’s say median-ish AUM of pods that can afford to hire an analyst is $250m. Hitting a target 6% net return (assuming your pod hasn’t been fired) = $15m P&L. 13% take rate = $2m bonus pool. Let’s assume you get 20% of that as an analyst = $400k. So all-in of around $550k. Feel free to substitute your own assumptions.
Thanks for the response. I realize that it's hard to come up with an accurate "average" but I appreciate you breaking it down.
When coming from IB, is it possible to change industries or will you need to stick with your industry group?
Assuming you're talking MM L/S, if you're playing the numbers, it's difficult to change industries, just because you won't be as competitive as the candidates coming from the matching industry group. But there are always a few exceptions.
250 gross or long market value?
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