Lower MM Boutique IBD vs. Big 4 Audit
There is a lot of talk on here about Boutique IB vs. Big 4 Advisory, but I want to pose a slightly different question. To be clear: by lower MM boutique IBD, I'm referring to firms like Piper Jaffray, Stifel Nicolaus Weisel, and other names the majority of people haven't heard of. Big 4 audit we all should know (PwC, Deloitte, EY & KPMG).
I am almost inclined to think Big 4 audit is superior and I want to hear the devil's advocate because I know how biased against audit this forum is. My case is similar to the case against getting a non-top MBA immediately from school. Once you do so, you automatically impair or completely destroy your chances at gaining a top MBA. So, would taking a position at a lower MM boutique IBD impair your exit opportunities to a superior firm, whereas in Big 4 audit you can transition into TAS and then an elite boutique/BB IBD? And on top of that, will the Big 4 company ultimately provide more benefit to the employee being a named brand to start off with (note: this is regarding entry-level analyst and staff accountant positions)
Anybody in IB will know Piper and Stifel. Sure your mom and your friends might not but are they the ones interviewing you?
Anyways, these are two very different paths. I think as a finance major you would definitely have your work cut out for you in landing a Big 4 audit position. And the transition into TAS is no where near as easy as you make it out to be nor would the the transition into a BB be easy/likely. To be completely honest, I have to imagine the transition would be much easier from even a boutique. In audit you don't have any deal experience or modeling exposure, the work doesn't really overlap at all. And if you really want to put it in perspective, by the time you would be able to transfer into IB from accounting (2-3 years minimum following the track you have listed) the analyst at the MM bank would probably either be an associate or have moved into a MM exit op.
Thanks for the input Richmondkey, I didn't mean to express that any of these transitions would be easy, just possible with enough effort.
To add to the conversation: which of these experiences would be superior pre-MBA in regards to 1) how much top MBA programs respect the work experience, 2) how much easier it would be to get admitted into programs, 3) job opportunities post-MBA given your previous experience?
First off, I feel almost everyone working in finance and law has at least heard of Piper Jefferies and Stifel Nicolaus.
I have never worked in Big 4 audit but it seems like a complete disaster to me and I have a few friends who have done it. Most of them hated it very badly and were constantly looking to leave. The exit opps for these 2 career paths to me do not even seem comparable at all. The IB exits will be the usual (PE, Corp Dev, Valuation, Capital Markets, stay in IB long-term, whatever) and the Audit exits will most likely be in corp accounting, assurance and whatever else (I don't even really know).
Forget about which will be better for getting you into an MBA (most likely IB anyway) because getting into an MBA program is not the end goal but the job/career it helps you attain. When 2 candidates are going through b-school recruiting having IB on your resume is going to be a huge leg up IMO even if you're pursing a different career path BC people respect that experience much more and know you must have some horse power.
There are names far lower than piper and Stifel on the league tables I would take over the shit 4.
Be careful. TAS and TS are sometimes the same group, other times completely different. Transaction Services has a much better chance of going into banking.
But going back to the problem at hand: It's better to go to a lower MM boutique rather than Big 4. The reason is that the work that you would do at a bank is similar to a BB except with smaller, less complex companies. Being at a lower MM would mean, possibly, you would work with a smaller team, which will give you more responsibilities on a transaction. If you leverage this properly, you would look attractive to a BB team.
For what its worth, I worked at a no name boutique (much less known than the ones you named) and the associate landed a Top 20 MBA after 3-3.5 years (analyst to associate). He had a no-name undergrad and probably decent ECs, no clue about GMAT. I know its only anecdotal, but should help to confirm the IB>Audit argument for b-school. I know little about audit, but I can't imagine it will set you up well to transition to top IBD later on without a great deal of effort and luck
MM/Boutique IBs or Big4 Advisory/Audit? (Originally Posted: 09/10/2010)
I'm currently going through recruiting season at a top 10 masters in accounting (MAcc) program. The recruiting is entirely focused on Big4 audit/tax and some financial advisory (NOT transaction advisory), along with the usual national firms (Grant, McGladrey, BDO) and regional firms - all audit or tax.
The thing is, I really want to get transaction experience. I eventually want to move back to Asia (I come from a developing country, not a US citizen) and use my such experience to set up my own shop or work for one of the local banks. There is huge potential to make big bucks back home, so ideally, I want to be back home in about 5-6 years.
I have two paths: Low risk - Go the traditional route, get a job with the Big4, get my CPA, work for a couple of years and try to get into transaction advisory. Since I'm a foreign student, going this route means low risk since my credentials are certainly good enough to land me a Big4 gig - besides, once I have the CPA, I'm also more employable.
High risk - devote more time to try and break into banking. The firms that come to recruit at my school are mostly middle market or boutiques, with a few 2nd tier BBs. They are mostly looking for undergrads, and as a MAcc student, I can't even directly apply for the jobs - I have to hustle a lot. This takes time and energy, so most likely, I'll have to cut back on the accounting firm recruiting. Risk here is nothing works out because hiring is still bad, and most boutiques/MM banks may not be able to sponsor me for a work Visa. So all the $$ sunk into the grad program will be down the drain.
Thoughts, anyone? If you were me, what would you do?
elite boutiques>solid MMs>big4 advisory>no name boutiques/MM>big4 audit
Can you elaborate on which are considered elite boutiques/solid MMs among these firms?
Brandes Investment Partners Eastdil Secured Edgeview Partners Fidus Partners Keefe, Bruyette and Woods Lazard Middle Market Harris Williams & Co. Oppenheimer & Company Raymond James & Associates SunTrust Robinson Humphrey VRA Partners IMC Financial Markets Jefferies & Company LCG Associates Milestone Advisors
I don't know about all of them, but I'll tell you that Jefferies and Oppenheimer are both great places to work and will give you options inthe future. I think Harris Williams is okay too, because I've heard of it, but I'm not sure.
easy decision - go investment banking...why start in audit or tax when you would want to do transactions? Also, if you really want the CPA, just pass the tests and forgo the work experience part...
As for the list, I would shoot your resume wherever you can and see what happens...I would accept those companies over big 4 audit nearly any day....
risk and reward? just do what you want to do
Out of the companies on the list, at the top I would say Jefferies is at the top - but I like Harris Williams, Oppenheimer, Raymond James, Lazard MM
IB will always be > anything at the Big 4.
You'll do fine at any of the following names from your list:
Edgeview Partners, Lazard Middle Market, Harris Williams & Co., Oppenheimer & Company, Raymond James & Associates, Jefferies & Company
Also, Fidus Partners seems to show my PE shop a fair amount of dealflow, so I imagine that working there can't be that bad. I know of one very talented guy who used to work at SunTrust Robinson Humphrey, so don't completely write them off either.
definitely somewhere in the southeast. maybe unc or wake forest?
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