Making it in IB cheating all through college?
Whats up guys. So I have this boy of mine who is a shot ass, I kind of respect it. You gotta. He goes to a top school (Think Princeton, Harvard, Yale) but this kid getsabsolutely boozed just all the time, skips classes, gets retarded high, but somehow finesses and has like a GPA of a 3.7. He has told me he has kind of schemed and cheated through college.
However he is a junior and already has an IB internship secured at a top BB [MS/GS/JP]. I honestly think it doesn't even matter that he cheated. Was all the shit he "learned" in college VERY necessary to succeed in IB? I mean obviously there are a lot of business classes you can take but I feel like he can just prepare and learn shit just for his job on his own I mean he passed all the interviews/technicals.. I guess only thing is he hasn't developed a work ethic. Whats your opnion lmao I know this post is kind of wild but It is serious
That's absolutely bonkers. If the person you're describing somehow managed to fake it through all those years of undergrad, then that person is exceptionally crafty. At some point, I'd imagine it must take a lot of effort to actually pull this off as opposed to properly learning the material in some cases.
Its absurd. He's told me in depth and he is proud of it lmao. Just crazy from having phone out during tests to having people log onto his online quizzes to take them for him, to getting sent whole essays from other people and from online, just wild.
That's some dedication, albeit pretty awfully misplaced. If he passed the technicals, though, it means that he at least has some foundational knowledge of finance. Sounds like he's capable of learning, so as long as he doesn't bring that same "finessing" mentality into the workplace, things might work out fine.
Stop placing "lmao" in the random ass places like a 12 year old girl
Yeah, this guy must be Wally-level crafty (from Dilbert)
doesn't seem like something super uncommon to me. almost all of the technicals he would've received in an interview would be in a BIWS guide and definitely doesn't have to be from the classes he takes. lucky him
Guessing you are this "boy."
Sadly no, I wish I went to a super target like him
Homeboy definitely grew up in Connecticut
And he definitely played lax in high school
Yeah we are both from Connecticut LMAO how did you guess?
Darien?
Very close, still in Fairfield County
Few thoughts:
This kid is obviously really smart but is using his raw ability to hide rather than risk mistakes. He probably knows exactly how to know just enough to get the good grade/get by.
That skill set lets you screw around and still do well, which is great for a while, gets boring after a few years post-UG.
This kid will probably get a FT offer, work for a year, then start a start-up. If you think you're that much smarter than everyone (cheaters usually do), you're not gonna stand for the rigid hierarchy of BB very long. Maybe he'll get into PE by using this ability to nail those crazy interviews.
Once in a small-team environment, this kid will be laid bare. You can't hide anymore when you are actually required to make decisions that affect other people.
Maybe he'll be a huge success, can't say. But I do know life gets pretty fucking boring/hard if the only thing you know how to do is fake it.
-One man's opinion.
Totally disagree. Being an analyst is all about doing as little work as possible, making it seem like its way more than it really is, and taking credit from others. This guy will be a top bucket analyst 100%
Sounds like the guy is very smart and calculating - the thing with IBD is (at least as a career), it's not really a game where the 'smartest' succeed. It's not a job, like at a quant hedge fund, that's contingent on you being smarter than other people. IB is essentially a consulting job with a narrow focus - as such, over the long term, it rewards people who put the extra time/work in and who clients like. You just need to have a baseline level of above-average intelligence - sure, as an analyst, the one maths genius who can crush through a model with zero mistakes in very little time may always be top bucket....but if said maths genius doesn't want to hang out with clients and bring home the business, he's not going to do as well as the socially-skilled hard worker.
honestly, none of the stuff you mentioned seems too uncommon. loads of highly functioning retards at my school doing what you mentioned or worse. sure, some of the kids get shit jobs since they don’t really hustle when it counts (recruiting) and others kind of fizzle out as analysts, but tons are just smart lazy bastards who are more than capable of succeeding on the job and putting in the work. loads of friends (myself included) working at EBs/BBs realized some serious ~synergies~ in undergrad, and have had no problem succeeding on the job itself
This person is perfectly suited to be in banking. May not be a great investor/go to the buyside but it sounds like if this kid can make it through his analyst years then he will be a very successful investment banker.
Very interesting. Can you explain why? Why do you think he has the traits/personality/unethical behavior in suceeding?
It takes a certain type of intelligence to do what this kid does. Its not necessarily a question of ethics that I am point to (although that may exist/align). That type of intelligence is what causes success in banking.
Knowing exactly what the client wants, and giving him exactly that, and not a single drop less. Also, providing that work in the most efficient manner possible., You get credit in banking for leveraging other peoples existing work (and claiming it as your own), and negative marks for spending time building additional models, etc (even if that new model is an improvement). All of This allows you to be efficient as you can handle many clients simultaneously. Obviously he will have to put in more work once he gets farther along
Leaving aside the ethical dimension of this situation, all I gotta say is that when your boy hits the desk with people who have been working 18 hours a day for years on end, it will take his new colleagues approximately 0.00000001 seconds to sniff out his bullshit.
Not playing. To a hard worker, it is extremely transparent when you observe someone fresh out of school playing games. It is likely that they will never mention it to him, but he’ll be regarded as the bottom bucket team bitch rather than an equal, and invited to leave after 1 or two years.
Leaving will not solve the problem either. Your boy needs to understand that (i) right after you graduate, people stop evaluating you based on your ability to game the GPA system and the skills that are conducive to that, and (ii) at some point in life (especially in finance and similar careers) you hit a level in your career where your peers/competition are not fucking around at all. These are adults who have, without variation, made significant sacrifices trading a large portion of their life in order to “hit their number” in the most expeditious way possible (even if that number is infinity). If you jeopardize that mission (with laziness above all else), you will be cut most quickly, and most savagely.
As others said previously in this thread, my bet is that he’ll do his year or two as the analyst that everyone treats like a child, then leave for some industry that suits “elite” softies better, like tech sales.
Also relevant to mention that if he's been cheating/cutting corners for that long, it becomes really hard to just 'turn it off' when it counts or know when to be cautious. It's a self fulfilling prophecy, the more you get away with it, the more you do it, the more arrogant you become, the less cautious about it you become, and eventually it comes to bite you. I've seen it happen to a lot of people. I'm not talking about people who occasionally do something that walks the line, but chronic, pathological liars/cheaters etc.
Correct. Two things have been true on every team I’ve ever been a part of, at every place I’ve ever worked:
(i) when you first show up, there’s always someone on the team who frustrates everyone with their self-preserving shenanagins and ineptitude; and
(ii) when you leave, those people have since been pushed out, or aside. They never last, in my experience.
This.
There are a lot of sociopaths out there. When ruthless people (and this is finance) operate in a way that is fundamentally dishonest, they are very dangerous. In particular, people who are willing to cheat are more willing to screw honest people, and if they're willing to do that, they're willing to screw you if you get in their way.
Whatever. Honest people need to do the right thing when they encounter this. But it's best if you never get involved with them.
you make it sound like he's incapable of lighting his ass on fire when it counts. I know plenty of people like the mysterious boy in question, such as myself who changed when it mattered. It wasn't about cheating because we were lazy, it was because we could. The minute we had to get straight we did. Then again we didn't cheat that hard, nor did we skip class all the time. I do agree that the more you do these things the longer and harder it is to get to and accept the light you ass on fire part.
From what I've heard about grade inflation at those schools, a 3.7 is basically failing. I exaggerate, but you get the point. He's not exactly pulling some Frank Abagnale level deception by pulling an A- average at a school that hands out decent grades like candy. Same for pulling an IB internship: from Fordham that's impressive, Harvard not so much.
When he makes partner at KKR after snorting, drinking and fucking his way through his 20's, then I'll be willing to believe he's a special mind who beat the system. Til then, it sounds like the joke may be on him.
Not all the ivies have grade inflation. Some are heavily deflated (like top LACs). So depending on where he actually goes, a 3.7 could really mean some mega finesse. If at a Harvard/Princeton, you're def right.
He'll be fine. 80-90% of college (outside financial accounting, intro to finance/law) is a huge waste of time. Most of these professors have no idea what skills it takes to succeed in the private sector because they never had to do it.
Succeeding in the real world isn't about memorizing and endless research - it is about creating perceived value, whether that is through hard work grinding, elite technical skills, business/revenue generation, or social engineering. Appearance and general likability also matters a ton, and this dude sounds like a classic social engineer who knows how to manipulate.
This kid is smart enough to know when to cut corners & when to apply himself. If he has good social skills, has connections, & has looks to an extent he’ll go far.
That’s the Red Pill. OP worry about yourself & stop virtue signaling. It’s not morally right. It jus is what it is. Maybe take a page or two out of his book.
It is very interesting you bring up he will get far. I am kind of fascinated by how the unethical and manipulative ones are the ones that often find success. Why do you think he will be able to go far in IB? How do his traits benefit him?
He should be just fine during his analyst and associate years where you just have to grind out pitchbooks and models. However, when it's time to actually talk to a client about finance and why they should make a certain decision or not, his stupidity will quickly show.
Most of this is perception vs reality.
He cultivates being a party king but probably puts in the hours in secret.
You'll soon find that what you see and what people tell you isn't necessarily true.
Honestly, depends.
If he's smart, then it didn't matter. He just has to start working hard and won't have mattered.
But, in all likelihood, his poor work habits and work ethic will be set in stone and he won't excel.
Honestly think sometimes being able to do slimy shit and get away with it and manage your secrets / transgressions is beneficial to being a banker. One of the people at my school who got to work at 3 different top tier IB bulge bracket firms before they even graduated was known universally around campus for copying homework, selling textbooks with the pages ripped out and replaced with white paper, and beating their relationship partner. Of course this isn't like the typical banker, but I've always wondered why a person like that was able to succeed so tremendously. Like there has to be a connection between being so manipulative and crafty with shady shit, and also doing incredibly well in a corporate environment.
Ummmm, one of these things is not like the other...... People knew that this guy was beating his partner and didn't say/do anything?
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