http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/checkpoint-wa…
I applaud these Marines for their actions. Young men, sent to a shit hole, allowing a people to be free and vote Democratically for the first time in their lives, who get sniped, blown up and otherwise treated like shit, kill a couple people who are trying to kill them and then decide to piss on their bodies. I see ZERO wrong with this.
The Marines were not pissing on little kids, prisoners or anything else like that. They were pissing on Taliban enemy combatants. Big fucking deal.
Oh no, the Afghani's are getting pissed. You know what? The USA should leave Afghanistan and go to the Taliban and tell them it is all yours, we won't fuck with you ever again. In 5 years when women are beat and gays are killed and people can't read or go to school the USA should fly a huge banner over the country and tell them " told you so ".
Why on earth do we even bother? Americans across this country should urinate in milk jugs and send it to the military so they can fill a C130 full of red, white and blue piss, fly it to that shit hole and urinate on the whole country.
Ungrateful, medieval cock suckers. And fuck the Pentagon and our entire government. We are such pussies. Tell Afghanistan so suck a dick. Nothing like invading nations, forcing them to comply, being the most powerful nation in the world and then always acting like a complete pussy.
amen. My sentiments exactly.
I think I'm in romantic love with ANT right about now....wow...
I completely agree. I honestly don't see it as that big of a deal. It could be worse--they could have been alive when they were getting pissed on.
They are fucking retards for recording it, but it always amazes me how we never back these kids up. Desecrate a Taliban fighter? You mean the same people who blow up innocent people because they help or do business with Americans?
Taliban fighters kill more innocent Afghani's than anyone else. Least we not forget how wonderful and respectful of human rights the Taliban was when they were in power. Cruel and horrible mother fuckers. Pissing on a dead Taliban is probably the least inappropriate thing that could be done.
Sons of bitches.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/09/07/quetta-suicide-bombing-pakista…
"An unidentified 5-year-old girl who security personnel had carried from the scene, bloodied, some of her clothes torn from her body, later died at a government hospital, according to doctor Mohammed Jafar Kakar.
The child was in a rickshaw, with her parents who also died in the attack, he said. Another child was also killed in the blast, along with a colonel in the corps."
Yeah, these scumbags don't deserved to be pissed on at all. They deserve to be revived, sodomized by a hog and then drowned. Cock suckers.
cosign, i also agree that further antagonizing our enemies and giving them recruitment video material so we can be stuck in even more endless wars is a great thing.
^^^ You are right. I mean if only we didn't piss on these garbage heaps the war would turn.
We should leave the country, provide arms and money to the Taliban to allow us to extract rare earth minerals and block any UN bill that could sanction them for crimes against humanity. Then, once the last bit or useful ore is removed we can freeze all their bank accounts, steal back out money and then fire bomb the place.
Fuck them all.
It's not a question of whether they (the taliban) deserve to have their corpses pissed on, it's about the US Military being better than their enemy.
No, it is about the US acting like it has a big dick and then being a bitch whenever something like this happens. We invaded two sovereign countries, we are killing Iranians, we do whatever we want like a huge raging asshole and then apologize when people say we are huge raging assholes.
We either act like bitches or be proud when we act the exact way we are. Oh and I wish Taliban would just piss on dead US soldiers. I mean the whole suicide bombing targeting children is just a tad bit worse than pissing on a dead guy.
I stopped reading after the first paragraph...you sound more like a nutty hick with each post I spend time reading..
Yeah man, nutty hick for supporting people who fight for this nation. Sorry that I am not crying a river because a bunch of dudes pissed on a dead enemy. Not like they have any stress or anything like that. Go fuck yourself.
You're just an angry, little internet monster, aren't you? I always wondered, does it satisfy you when you jerk your idealogical load all over then net? Do you browse the HuffPost comments section, mashing your keyboard in fustration because "the liberals just dont get it"? I don't see how people get off by voicing their own insignificant opinions when nobody truly gives two shits about what you have to say. Typically, I would spend my time, you know, doing something productive with my life, or at least voicing my opnion to my real life freinds, not an anonymous internet community. Afterall, I could care less about what a bunch of internet jack offs think. i really don't get what your gaining from this. Then again, I really don't care anymore.
In regard to the 4 USMC fuckwads pissing on corpses of enemy combatants - Clearly, this is not right. You want to talk about whether this was ok or not, fuck you, I couldn't give a shit about your opinion. What concerns me more is that this video effectively weakened the broader strategic goals that the US has for AFG, underminded the US's effectiveness in the "War on Terror", and (like Abu Ghraib, water boarding and GitMo) has smacked a black eye on the US's reputation. Jihadists will be motivated after seeing this, and critics of US foreign policy will get more critical. That's enough to condemn this type of insolence, whether you think its right or wrong.
Here's an idea for military service members - don't torture, don't humiliate, don't desecrate corpses. WTF was going on in their heads? What kind of sick fuck up gets off on stripping enemy prisoners naked while making them mimic gay sex, torture prisoners, piss on corpses?
These 4 will pay the piper, they deserve to.
I know where you're coming from, ANT, and love the rage. Ultimately I agree with Dave Winkler, too. I'm a former Marine and served in this unit, actually. I was sick watching the video, but I also knew the things those young men had to see, and I get how it happened. I don't like it, and I never would defend desecrating a corpse, but these Taliban are POS.
That said, I saw videos of Zarqawi beheading people, and I would dig that guy up tomorrow to piss on him.
"They are fucking retards for recording it, but it always amazes me how we never back these kids up."
That's a good point too, ANT. These are kids, and they're going to get royally fucked by Uncle Sam for political expediency. The same Uncle Sam who sent them to get shot at or blown up by dudes like this.
Lets just not fight war anymore. This whole idea that pissing on a dead guy is something to apologize for, but the fact that we killed them in the first place is fine blows my mind.
We are not apologizing for the bullet through the head, the family left fatherless or the village destroyed, but WHOA, they pissed on the dudes, now that is TOO FAR!
Such bullshit.
You need help.
Yeah, what a wonderful insight. I am sure 50 years in the future we will look back and say "if only they didn't piss on them". Sureeeeee pal.
Thanks for wasting my time and yours, I mean for someone who doesn't care or thinks it is a waste of time you sure took away from your precious time to respond to the post.
So says the guy with 10,000+ banana points.
1) I never made a comment about political opinion.
2) Some people like to discuss and have opinions. I see you have one and took time to let us all know about it.
3) So glad you are up in arms and condemn the Marines for pissing on a guy, yet you could care less about the fucking bullet the put between his eyes.
What a joke.
Winning the hearts and minds...
And your point is? I am not complaining about wasting time am I? I mean your 237 posts could have been better spent doing something productive, right?
Whatever buddy. Go spend your precious time somewhere else.
I'm all for supporting our Marines and all that and I know the "fog of war" can cause crazy things. But I gotta say that this did strike me as kind of dumb. Why piss on someone when they're dead? We're all going back to the same creator (whomever/whatever that may be for you) so why add insult to injury? Of course, filming it was the second dumbest thing they also did that day. I'm not sure we need to give them the world's harshest punishment, but I'm not going to praise them either.
Filming it is dumb. Doing it is dumb. But to be outraged and apologetic is ridiculous
WE KILLED 3 PEOPLE ARE ARE SAYING SORRY FOR PISSING ON THEM!!.
The first line is correct, maybe minus being apologetic. Granted, your OP is sort of an embarrassment to Americans.
.
I loved the quotes: "have a good day, buddy" and "golden, like a shower". I also loved how the Taliban spokesman said it is an outrageous act that no religion would resort to...yeah pretty sure I'd rather have someone take a piss on my dead body than blow me up on a crowded bus.
Americans piss on a dead body. Taliban torture and cut peoples heads off, or just blow up little children. I think they are about equal.
Not.
I owe you an SB ANT, couldn't agree more.
Thanks dude.
I mean yeah, I was livid and hyperbole earlier, but I just can't understand how urination is more of a crime than actually killed a human being. We are arguing about minutia when we are engaged in wars killing thousands.
Wow. You are actually out of your fucking mind, ANT.
Welcome back Jerome. Please, tell me what is so "out of my mind". I cannot wait to hear your drivel.
Taking advantage of the fact that the SB/MS feature is disabled I see, Ant.
Hahaha. Yeah, well I could care less at this point. I am sure I would get a bunch of SB's as well as plenty of MS.
I'll tell you what. When someone murders me I don't want them to be arrested unless they piss on me. Killing me is one thing, but pissing on me after is just over the line.
There are really only two schools of thought on this:
1) Sometimes when the enemy has been shot they will play dead until you get close and then pull the pin on a grenade to kill you. When I was still in the Marines they told us we weren't allowed to dead-check guys anymore by double-tapping them, so maybe this was just their way of making sure they were really dead.
2) They were being thoughtful and ensuring that these nasty fucks would catch on fire when they get to hell.
...you guys are totally delusional. Things like this incident really do nothing but show what a utopian fantasy the whole idea that we can "liberate" people through military force is and your reaction shows how laughably immature you guys are. These marines were not drafted into this war, they are professional soldiers and so I dont think it is too much to ask for them not to piss on enemy corpses.
ANT, thank you for your insightful post.
Here's some more applaudable Marine action for you to jack off to
http://www.bluestatepress.com/politics2/news_046.htm
I would only jerk off to it if the Marines pissed on the sheep.
PS warn people before you link to a blatantly liberal website. I feel sick that I gave it a view and possible some ad revenue.
ANT. The name is bluestatepress.
Wow Duff Toast. Wonderfully insightful comment. Thanks for adding to the discussion.
You too!
I have to say I have all sorts of feelings about this one.
First, I'm a bit disappointed in these Marines. I mean, what happened to the good ole' days of just killing someone and then shitting on them? To resort to merely pissing on the corpse just shows how feminized our military has become.
Second, I'm angry that they would video tape this. People do stupid shit, all the time...the key to getting away with it is to not document any of it, because it is going to find it's way to the internet.
On a serious note, I do wish these soldiers and Marines would think through what they are about to do. While I am not offended they did this, it doesn't take a genius to know there will likely be severe consequences...so out of self preservation, I would like to see our fighting men make better decisions...even if that better decision just mean not recording the shit they are about to do. Doing this isn't going to get you promoted or awarded a medal, so if you MUST piss on the body, do it because it gives you a sense of satisfaction, not because you are trying to prove something to the enemy or showoff for your friends back home...after all, the enemy is governed by no rules of war and they will always be able to 'one up' you.
For all of the critics of the military, lets tread lightly when speaking of things you know little-to-nothing about. Lets also remember that most of these people are merely kids. What were you doing when you were 20? They are being forced to make life and death decisions and often, to take other people's lives or be killed. When you were 20 you were feeding jello shots to girls until they were nearly blackout drunk and then toeing the line between consensual sex and rape....so lets fucking be real. If you haven't been in the military and/or you haven't been in combat, shut your fucking mouth.
As a final point, and I hope no one gets too offended by this...but it's been my observation while in the military that fighting soldiers and Marines are a different breed...and Marines more than soldiers. Anyways, they remind me a lot of police dogs. People tend to think that police dogs are nice and then switch to mean at the handlers command...this is just not the case. Many of these dogs are conditioned to think that finding the bad guy or the drugs is a game...this is why you will notice their tales wagging and that they are often given a reward after apprehending a subject. In many ways this is similar to how our fighting soldiers are trained. They don't run around the middle east pissed off 24/7...they spend most of their time 'normal' and when they have mission or patrols they get amped-up, like they are getting put into the football game...like it's their time to sack the quarterback. This is the mentality they are given and sometimes this spills over and things like the pissing incident occur. Essentially these are young, partially immature males that are being asked to protect, die and kill for one another.
I'm sure some of you think your fraternity hazing was tough and that you have some concept of what it's like to be in the military but you don't. The fat chick you fucked on a dare, no matter how sweaty and hairy, just doesn't compare to even the average day for the average soldier that's deployed.
Remember, when you are having a tough go at school, your parents fly in and take you to dinner or you drive home and have mom cook you some grilled cheese. These kids are stuck in a dangerous place wondering if their marriage is going to survive being deployed again, wondering what their newborn looks like, wondering if their kids will recognize them when they get home, if they get home. Nobody is perfect and I'm not saying that no one should ever be punished for what they do when they are deployed but I'm just asking that those who have no fucking clue what it's like to be deployed away from the ones you love, cut the condescending, uninformed opinions.
Regards
Interesting and pretty enlightening analogies here.
I agree that these guys just screwed up. They have a whole different experience and outlook than we do back at home.
With that said, there is no reason to be glorifying this type of behavior. The whole "But Johnny did something terrible to me first so I have to do something terrible back to him" attitude doesn't help our perception abroad and certainly doesn't help the livelihoods of military personnel. As Americans, we should (figuratively) be the better man.
git er done
duffmt, I wouldn't compare beheading journalists and murdering civilians to pissing on corpses.
Nowhere did I make that comparison. See the "be a better man" section of my post.
how long does it take to train a sniper though bc if it's like ~ 6+ months i doubt these guys will have anything done to them
Deleted
A lot of the guys in Sniper platoons aren't school trained snipers. With the frequency of the deployments over the past decade, only about 50% at most are school trained. In the Marine Corps it doesn't matter how much they've spent training you, if you fuck up this bad you're getting NJP at least, but most likely a Court Marshall for these guys.
Damn, I bet it really sucks to be in 3/2 right now.
3/2's command would lock down the Battalion for the entire weekend if one Marine got a DUI.....They are probably going to the field for month in order to avoid any new attention, really sucks.
If we're going to continue our role as world police (yes, I know many here, including me disagree with it), we cannot give anyone a reason to point a finger back at us while we condemn others. Equivalency does not matter.
I agree, but the issue is no matter what we do something will be misconstrued or seen in a bad light. We either suck it up and not give a shit about tasteless events like this or just stop policing the world.
We are the most nefarious pussies in the world. We invade countries and try and force others to do our bidding, but we pretend like we care when Marines piss on people. I'd respect our imperialism a whole lot more if we would just collectively realize that pissing on someone is far worse than invading their country and killing them in the first place.
I'm with ANT on this one. I mean, that's the point. No one is upset that we killed these people. They're upset that their rotting flesh is being pissed on. It's totally illogical!
I can't see how this spreads the good will of democracy or will generate a positive view of Americans worldwide. I suppose the easiest way to solve this controversy is to put an end to eternal nation building!
ok i will be the only one who says the obvious truth...the us military is a source of evil and oppression in the world. Had we not been in afghanistan these poor saps (both the soldiers and the afghans they pissed on) would have productive lives in front of them...now they all are deader then fried chicken including the marines who will live with this the rest of their lives. As the sayijng goes, war is equally humiliating for the victors and the vanquished.
Yes, impoverished, uneducated Islamic fascists had productive lives ahead of them murdering gays, subjugating women, and executing heretics.
Yes, I'm sure these lowly gentlemen here were murdering many gays. You almost seem to believe the propaganda. These combatants were likely impoverished people with little other opportunity and were probably offered a few bucks by some local warlord to 'fight'.
The fact is, everyone involved is worse off and the situation is not improving. Many thousands dead with nothing of note, and now all those involved in this incident are worse off for it taking place.
The fact anybody thinks that it is commendable and acceptable for a professional soldier to act in this manner is simply out of their mind insane. I can't think of any possible way to justify the actions and any way you think about it, it is absolutely horrible. From the perspective of a human being with some idea of humanity, as one soldier to another, as an American, as somebody who is supposed to be a professional, somebody who is expected to be an adult and role model, somebody who is supposed to be bringing liberty/freedom/etc.... coming from any of those perspectives, it is simply despicable.
Give these kids a break. They risked their lives to go fight and they sure as hell went through a lot of shit, both emotionally and physically. One of the kids I knew from my middle school went to Iraq as a marine, and returned home with a leg missing. Those crazy motherfuckers in Iraq, Pakistan, and Afghanistan throw all kinds of shit at you, including suicide bombing via all kinds of vehicles disguised as civilians. You never know when bombs are coming to get you, and these U.S. soldiers are stressed and paranoid as fuck about their safety.
It is completely rational that these marines have a hard feelings towards these motherfuckers, and it should be natural for them to wanting to take a piss or shit on enemy's corpses, secretly or explicitly. Now, I think it was retarded of them to film this shit, but still, give them a break.
I would be really disappointed if they get harsh punishment. Like some others in this thread mentioned, which is worse: killing people or taking piss on a corpse? The guy that deserves all the blame for all this mess is George Bush, not these young men who fought bravely and risked their lives.
We have a completely volunteer military and these people are supposed to be treated and act as adults.
Give them a break because they are stressed out/went through shit? Unfortunately, we don't even know the circumstances by which they did this or if these were even militants they were pissing on!
I also apparently have had far different experiences with military folks than most people. While I respect the need for a strong military, I 'support the troops' (in the sense I wish for their safe arrival back home with a productive life and wish them the best in their efforts), and I think the idea of providing service for your community and society is a noble one that is worth honoring, most of the people that went into the military from my high school were utter shitheads and their service was not out of a feeling of a duty to their nation, but because of a last resort. Then again, a couple people from my college did go into the military and they were great people, so perhaps I had a very biased view, but the theme seems to be common and this event along with many others seems to corroborate the shithead view.
Did you forget the part where they are standing over dead bodies? Do you do that often? Do you kill people often enough to dismiss the apparently fucked up situation these people are in?
Regards
"Those crazy motherfuckers in america throw all kinds of shit at you, including [carpet] bombing via all kinds of vehicles disguised as [drones]. You never know when the bombs are coming to get you, and these [Taliban] soldiers are [still] stressed and paranoid as fuck about their safety [because they witnessed their parents, siblings, children being blown up by American attacks]"
See what I did there? Stress and post-traumatic shock doesn't justify what the evil Taliban does, and so it can't justify what these sadistic troops do either. Gang raping local girls, executing children, shooting at vans full of families etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. "Oh but those are just isolated events" is the standard argument. The problem is that we'll never know. Very few of these offences are caught, and even fewer are announced in western media. On the other hand, every single atrocity committed by the enemy is televised non stop. This is how the propaganda machine works. How is it that you don't understand this?
Anyway, the Taliban is completely evil. I hope every single one of them drops dead. I don't care that they have become what they are because of what they experienced in their life. What they are doing now is evil and thats what matters. Similarly, a percentage of US troops are also deranged fucks. I don't care what they went through either. Every single one of them that is caught doing something sadistic should face very harsh punishment. In some cases, they should be given the chair.
And with that, I'm signing off this thread. Peace out.
Well, at least they didn't piss on enemies while they were alive. If I was a soldier deployed, I would have done things far worse than this out of stress and my hatred for these motherfuckers. If I was a soldier deployed, I would actually piss and take shit on these fuckers while they're still alive. And, I am sure many others would have done things that are far worse than this if they were deployed to fight in Afghanistan.
For example, in Germany during WWII many German soldiers raped young Jewish women, only to later send them to concentration camps to be killed by poison gases. In war, people do stupid and brutal shit, and it is human nature. How can you fucking risk your life and fight against enemies when you have the kindest of intentions and manners towards your enemies? That's bullshit.
Remember, these guys VOLUNTEERED to do this job and are paid to do this job. They ought to act like professionals if they are going to be treated with respect, which it seems many have not earned.
Your only argument seems that these marines volunteered to go fight, and thus they should act 'professionally'.
That is irrelevant. It doesn't matter if you are sent to a war by a draft or by will. People are same. When you fight against these crazy fuckers and witness your buddies getting killed and injured left and right, it is completely natural, as humans, to grow hatred against your enemies.
And, are you honestly comparing your job in trading to fighting war in Iraq or Afghanistan? Worst thing that can happen to you in trading is you suck and get fired. Worst that can happen to you if you go to Afghanistan is you get caught by one of these fuckers, get filmed begging for your life as a hostage, and get filmed while your head is chopped off.
That brings another point: these Islamic fuckers fucking ALWAYS film their hostages begging for their lives, and they also FILM their hostages getting tortured and getting BEHEADED. And many times, these hostages are actually civilians not soldiers, which is even more insane and more brutal. I don't know about you, but I think these U.S. marines are actually being very modest and considerate compared to those Islamic fuckers.
It never ceases to amaze me how the American far left identifies with and defends Islamic fascists. Never was there a terrorist, wife beating, gay slauhtering, daughter flogging, child raping, heretic killing, journalist beheading, Jew exploding, Bible burning piece of shit Islamo Nazi that an American leftist didn't sympathize with. Yes, it's the American marines who are shitheads and the Islamo Nazis who hide in elementary schools and hospitals who are the victims. It's the Islamo Nazis who blow up buses and ram planes into offices buildings that deserve our sympathy. Boo hoo. Poor POS terrorist got his body pissed on. Cry me a yellow river.
How much of that do you actually believe? I seriously would like an answer. I can make the rebuttal that the American far right are xenophobic sadists who have never cared about the"collateral damage" of this global war on terror, which actually helps the Islamist terrorist movement sustain itself. If that wasn't enough, the sentiment expressed in this thread (and, say, Fox news and all conservative politicians who subscribe to hawkish foreign policy theory) validates the conspiracy theories espoused that "we" are targeting "them", which also aids the recruitment of terrorists. SO STOP HATING AMERICA.
Videos like this harm America and our troops, so I'd not support this bullshit. Don't be obtuse just so you can disagree with people of a different political persuasion.
Since you can't read between the lines, I'll lay this out in plain English. I was responding to the poster who was bashing American soliders as douchebags and shitheads while defending the poor little Taliban fighters. The American Left always ALWAYS bashes American soldiers and is always the first to defend Islamo Nazis. The so-called American progressive that is for gay rights, women's rights, religious freedom, etc. never expresses outrage at the Islamic world for executing gays, beheading journalists, and for oppressing and mutiliating women. No, it's the marines who piss on rotting flesh who are the bad guys. In the demented mind of the American left the guys who are fighting for Islamic fascism are the good guys. That's what's so demented and fucked up about the psychology of the American leftist.
How do you make a moral equivalency to beheading journalists and pissing on dead bodies? THAT'S completely illogical. How are these equally "horrible" actions?
Who said or implied that they were equivalent? One is murder, the other is desecration of a body ( although who knows how or why those men were killed to begin with). Simply because one is 'worse' doesn't justify or make okay the other. A terrible action is sill terrible and I certainly don't see that these particular guys did any of those actions you claim are common.
HUGE mancrush on ANT. His post hit it out of the park. I'm getting so fucking tired of the U.S. media apologizing for every mistake the military makes while completely ignoring the daily cruelty that the taliban imposes on its people. The liberals hate the military; there is no doubt about this.
Making a video of this was beyond idiotic. The problem with recording it, etc. is twofold:
1) Every uneducated Afghani who sees something like that will start thinking that the U.S. is against them -- do you think they understand the war? A recent survey showed that 92% of Afghanis in rural Pashtun Afghanistan don't even know what 9/11 was. These are uneducated, piss poor people with no jobs. The Taliban are recruiting Afghanis to join their cause for a wage because these people have no other way of feeding themselves. Imagine the Taliban showing a video like this to Afghanis and saying "here's what the occupiers think of you." Afghanis who know no better will line up to join the Taliban. What good is killing three if it creates 30 more? In short, these idiotic Marines just put their fellow troops in more danger.
2) This is going to get worldwide international condemnation (and already is). That'll just complicate our mission in Afghanistan and make it more difficult to get Afghanis to side with us. The Marines are supposed to be the best of the best. We should hold them to higher standards instead of making excuses for them.
Consequences that will haunt them for life? Dude, I would piss on them also. In fact, I think pissing on them is a pretty normal response.
These animals target their own people. How many innocent Afghani's have died through suicide bombing. If you think normal Afghani people like the Taliban or appreciated their rule you are fucking nuts.
God bless these Marines. Keep pissing on all of those scumbags.
You really think pissing on enemies' corpses warrants these soldiers ending up in a jail for years? The most appropriate punishment that I see fit is military send these marines for soup kitchen and let them do two weeks of community service. That's it.
Then explain why the Taliban has been growing steadily, not shrinking, since 2004. We Americans see people on TV dying through Taliban-led suicide bombings. Do the Afghanis see that? Not at all. A lot of them (including innocents) just see US troops breaking into their houses, killing their family members, etc.
These people barely have clean food, let alone access to news sources, especially in the southern rural areas of Afghanistan. Taliban reps actively recruit them, promising them wages when have no access to clean water or healthcare. The Taliban pose as freedom fighters, not oppressors, and the locals know no better. When Taliban recruiters show videos people getting pissed on to Afghanis, do you think the viewers rationalize that the subjects are Taliban? No, they just see a white man urinating on an Afghani man. They don't see Taliban vs. non-Taliban. That prompts them to join the Taliban's struggle, i.e. strengthens the Taliban.
I'm not saying their thought-process is logical since the Taliban were absolutely and unequivocally one of the most oppressive governments in recent memory. But check the results of any Afghani poll. Most of them feel more afraid and less secure than they did under Taliban rule.
And we sit here under the delusion that there aren't going to be any consequences to this video. In reality, all this does is strengthen the Taliban and put more of our forces in danger. Exactly what we don't need.
I think it's about time U.S. pulls out of Middle East once and for all. Who gives shit if Taliban exists and Islamic extremists do all kinds of crazy shit over there? This war on Iraq has to be the most retarded war ever in human history, and it has no purpose nor any worth. No American gives a shit if Taliban guys want to blow up Afghani or Iraqi people. Let's face it - a war on Iraq or Afghanistan won't completely erase the root and cause of Taliban or Islamic extremists. We need to worry about shit that exists back in U.S., such as unemployment, fucked up economy, ridiculous cost of education and health care, loads of fucked up Mexican gangsters in LA, etc
We really need to stop with this idea that education makes you something special. I have two fucking masters and I support pissing on these people. Am I uneducated? Get the fuck real.
Romans use to wash their hair with piss and pissing on your feet helps with athletes foot. If anything the Marines are helping these guys out in an ancient Roman tradition.
Fucking people in this country pay to get pissed on and these terrorists got a freebie. What kind souls.
Nothing will happen to these guys past losing rank or something. This story has jack shit legs. Just wait until we start bombing Iran and this will fade away.
I think you have to live a decent life to be desecrated in death. If these guys are part of the Taliban, the same Taliban that subjugates women, murders gays, and other crimes against humanity, then pissing on their body is not desecration, it is appropriate.
People pissed on Mussolini. I don't think that was desecration but deserved.
both ANT and VaTech sound like 12 year old fanboys who have a hard-on for the marine corps...you guys should actually enlist rather then sitting here halfway across the world talking tough about how violent you would be if you were over there. Give it up already, you arent tough and you are posting on a board about finance. ANT you should go back to giving advice about whether Vilanova or Syracuse has a better masters program.
Please, PLEASE, for the love of Christ, quote anything AT ALL that I said that could even possibly be remotely construed as me saying what I would do. What you just said about me is a transaparent and verifiable lie. Please, PLEASE quote me as to where I said I would piss on their corpses or what I would do. PLEASE.
Yeah pal, respecting one of America's finest fighting forces is being a fanboi. Sorry if I am not crying about a bunch of soldiers pissing on an enemy combatant.
Last time I checked this post was put in the off topics section. If you are going to get so uptight about people discussing non finance things you might want to avoid the off topics forum. I suppose being passive aggressive is more pleasurable to you.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taliban#Human_rights_abuses
If these fighters were fighting for the Taliban cause, then pissing on them would be more of an honor than they deserve.
BTW ask these actual soldiers, who now face real consequences for their actions (unlike you), whether they are happy they did this and my guess is that their answers will be signifigantly less gung ho then yours. Truth be told, the Afghans they pissed on at least have the balls to pick up weapons and defend what they believe in, unlike you guys who talk about how our military should be invading all these countries but you would be shitting your pants if you were ever asked to actually participate.
Why are you still posting? Go hang out in the finance forum and leave off topics alone. I don't want to hear any more of your crying.
And great logic. I can't support the troops or think punishing these guys for a silly mistake is wrong simply because I haven't served. So is military service the only qualified? My buddy who did two tours in Iraq thinks it is perfectly fine what the Marines did. Does that make his statement the word of God?
It's about meaning. Objectively, yes, the Afghans in the video were already deceased and so the marines urinating on them did not hurt them any further...and yes, it is obviously worse to be killed than to be pissed on, nobody is arguing otherwise.
The issue here is the meaning that the action brings with it. Pissing on a corpse does not adversely affect anyone when examined from an objective standpoint. Unfortunately, most people do not think or act in objective terms. The desecration of corpses is considered to be a serious taboo amongst most cultures worldwide and is certainly NOT the type of action that should be tolerated AT ALL in the military, let alone the planet's foremost "first-world" military that is attempting to establish peace and democracy in the Middle East through nation building.
The actions of these marines exemplify the very reason why the US has fucked up nearly every military engagement that it has been involved in since WWII. Without "winning the hearts and minds" of the people that an army occupies, it stands absolutely no chance of generating the popular support that it so desperately needs to be truly victorious in an endeavor to instill its own ideals in other cultures. The actions of these marines have only given the recruiters for anti-American groups more ammunition to inspire more hatred toward our nation.
This is entirely false. You don't win the hearts and minds of your enemy. Just like in World War 2, you seek absolute victory or no victory at all. You either fight a war 100% or you don't fight it at all. All the cluserfuck wars the U.S. has been involved in have been wars where we have no sought absolute victory, from Korea to Vietnam to the Gulf War to Iraq to Afghanistan to Somalia. You don't win the hearts and minds of Nazis, of Stalinists, of Islamo fascists. We have no business in Afghanistan because there is no country to defeat, no war to win, no finite mission to accomplish.
LOL are you kidding? We haven't been fighting nations with standing armies like we did in WWII, we've been fighting ideals and trying to instill our own in populations that aren't receptive to them. There can be no absolute victory through military might in these situations, as I would think the results of the US failing to do this very thing on numerous occasions since WWII would prove to you. Winning in these situations means not doing excessively fucked up shit to make more of the civilians hate the United States and take up arms to support the cause against the USA.
I consider myself to be of the right, and I can admit that military personnel are not infallible to the extent that people are making them out to be, and that perhaps pissing on those we kill is not in our best interest. Am I supportive of the Taliban? Fuck no. But it doesn't take a genius to see that our current tactic of occupying a nation and trying to change the culture to be more receptive to US ideals cannot work when things like this occur. I agree with you on most of your posts, but think that this pretty clearly not something to be applauded.
"for instance, 16 IEDs have been planted in girls' schools" by the Taliban in 2008.
If these rat leftists expressed 1/100th the outrage at Islamo fascists for their human rights violations as they do at a marines for pissing on dead bodies then I'd have at least a modicum of respect for them. The fact is, American leftists hate the United States and sympathize with radical Islam's hatred of the United States. The enemy of my enemy is my friend. Leftists see Islamo Nazis as their temporary allies.
lol who has said anything about supporting militants? Why are you even bringing this up? How would this at all make what the Marines did okay? Killing being worse than desecration does not make desecration okay.
The point I'm making is that the leftist media, Democrats and Ron Paul people never express outrage at the breathtaking subhumanity of the Islamo Nazis around the world. They are quick to take a bad incident like this and apply "shitheads" to the entirety of the Marine Corps. Where is their outrage at the targeting and murdering of civilians by the Taliban? Why aren't they saying, "My God! What the Marines did was bad and they should be punished, but it's hard to not sympathize with their feelings toward the Taliban, which places bombs inside elementary schools so that they can kill 8-year-old girls for learning"?
Why is your knee jerk reaction to bash the Marine Corps and the United States? What is the demented psychology behind this thinking?
it is kind of hilarious that these marines filmed this shit. When you commit an act that has potential to be condemned for whatever reason, you never leave any evidence.
for the record, i bet there are many other soldiers who did this kind of shit, except they didn't film themselves doing it.
Exactly. The only crime they committed was filming this. We should punish them for doing so. Next time people piss on dead terrorists they must not film that shit.
I think some people get certain thrill out of filming weird shit. Like how some people film their sex tapes, at the risk of it eventually getting on-line and being exposed to the public. (think: Paris Hilton)
The left only cares about foreign people when it can make the USA look bad. When the Taliban was killing innocent people or desecrating other religions they could care less. When US soldiers make a silly mistake they jump all over it. Hypocrites to the max.
Then you and I agree, I'm not sure where the divergence is. I don't think we should be fighting a war in Afghanistan because there really is nothing to fight. At the same time, I lose no sleep over the death and urination funeral of a Taliban fighter. We are in their country and they are trying to kill American soldiers because they believe--probably wrongly--that the Americans are trying to force them to change their way of life, which includes intimidating and murdering civilians, mutilating and subjugating women, executing gays, and ruling over people's lives with an iron fist. For them I have no sympathy if they get hit by an American bullet even though I don't agree with the war.
See, it's possible to not agree with a war and yet have little sympathy for the enemy, an enemy that seeks to enslave the population.
I agree - we should not be there at all. Still, I do lose sleep (figuratively) over this issue, because it will only breed more hatred toward us and lead to more problems for the US down the road. If for some reason it did not, then fuck it, who cares. I think most people are angry about this issue because of its repercussions.
I dont know if you guys are talking at all to me but Im far from a "leftist". Just so you know, conquering countries in order to make them democracies is about as leftist as it gets and you guys support it...and of course like all liberal utopian fantasies it leads to nothing but embarassment and failure as well embodied in these videos of soldiers acting like idiots.. You are right that I dont care about "Islamofacists" and their atrocities...I live in new york not afghanistan and we have our own problems to worry about. If you want to help poor islamic women then start a chariyt dont use my tax dollars to kill a bunch of people for no good reason and piss on them. Ridding the world of bad people is a liberal utopian fantasy and videos like this are what come of it.
And saying in gung ho fashion that you would also do shit like this is just immature and stupid...as I said ask the soldiers themselves about it and i bet they would say it was the biggest mistake of their lives.
Another voice of reason on this forum. Thanks for commenting.
I don't think it's unreasonable to not give a shit about whether some dead Taliban is being pissed on but still recognize that by doing so we severely diminish any sort of peace efforts we are attempting there.
http://www.youtube.com/embed/FV_GoGcWH_c
http://www.mediaite.com/tv/bill-maher-doesnt-agree-with-the-outrage-ove…
Not that I like Bill Maher, but bravo to him for speaking up for these brave young soldiers.
Who gives a fuck if they pissed or shat? Now that they are on video everyone will use it for their own interests. The politicians, the terrorists and everyone in between.
Does anyone else read these threads just to get a few lols from ANT's rants?
Anyway, I don't understand why this is such a huge deal. There have been many grave atrocities committed during war throughout history. Some marines pissing on corpses does not rank among them.
Honestly, I am proud these marines pissed on the corpses of these pieces of shit. They fought bravely and they are expressing their conquer and victory, although filming this was retarded. If I was a marine, I would take shit and take piss on these fuckers while they're still alive. Then film them while they're getting beheaded.
WOW this thread ... I honestly expected the OPs response to be a one off view. These people as soldiers are supposed to make lives better for these people and I totally respect that. They’re giving up much of their youth and potentially their lives to fight for justice but urinating on dead bodies of any person is just wrong. Doing this is a juxtaposition of everything their fighting for filming it and then unintentionally having it broadcast all over the world is just stupid. I'm pretty sure that this violates every principle of basic human rights, freedom, liberties and righteousness these soldiers stand for. There are a lot of flawed arguments in this thread.
Yes they killed people and that’s inherently worse than urination on their dead body but the killing was for ‘a greater good.’ Killing human should be a last resort and IF those were indeed Taliban members killing them is arguably better for everyone. However what does pissing on a corpse do besides bringing worldwide criticism of the US army. Nothing. There is no greater good here, no moral righteousness and no justice whatsoever. It completely unnecessary and no human should be subjected to having urine sprayed all over their dead body. The Taliban has done some horrible deplorable unimaginable things but this does not give American soldiers the right to abuse their deceased bodies. This is exactly why American values are against an ‘eye for an eye.’ Also there are a lot of people here who have selective about portrayal of US soldiers. Everyone is putting them on a pedestal saying their honourable young men serving their country and its okay because only the Taliban kill and rape children and journalists etc. BUT
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/09/01/wikileaks-us-troops-execu_n_94… US soldiers handcuffed and shot civilians in the head including 5 children under 5 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahmudiyah_killings 5 US soldiers were charged with gang-raping and killing a 14 year old girl before executing her family: a mother, father and six year old sister http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/iraq/8082605/Wikil… US soldiers sprayed a car with up to 200 bullets because they didn’t stop driving, killing a family with two children
I could literally go on all day with incidents like My Lai, Haditha etc but you get the point so please don’t use ‘oh but they did worse’ as an excuse because when soldiers don’t think anyone is looking they are clearing capable of behaving on a horrific level as well. Do ‘these scumbags… deserve to be revived, sodomized by a hog and then drowned? Or is it only the Taliban that should be punished. I know these soldiers have experienced some traumatic and unimaginable things but that does not mean they are excused for wrongdoings. They need proper help and support for their tragedies but that does not make it okay for them to do something like that to other people
I have personally never experienced warfare but that doesn’t mean I'm not capable of forming an opinion based on common sense. That’s what we do every day. Is it wrong for me to call Freddy Got Fingered the shittest movie ever been made because I don’t know what it’s like to direct a movie, Bernie Madoff a dirtbag because I've never had the opportunity to steal billions etc? These aren’t wrong conjectures to make and just because I personally have not been in a somebody’s shoes doesn’t mean I am incapable from judging their actions from a reasonable standpoint.
To that dog analogy, yes dogs get treats for catching out bad guys but if some pit-bull malls a 5 year old then they are 100% going to be put to death. Is that what we should do to the troops killing children? Also can we excuse the actions of some extremists just because they were conditioned to believe from childhood that the US are the enemies killing innocent people? Wrong behaviour cannot be excused no matter how they’re trained and to be honest, humans brought up in American society should just know better.
Pissing on dead bodies is not that bad and on the scale of other stuff done during war probably ranks like 1 but something wrong is still wrong and encouraging this and saying we should do worse instead is even worse.
cl234, the difference? When U.S. soldiers commit atrocities they are arrested, tried and convicted. When the Taliban commit atrocities it's another day on the job. It's who they are. My only point is that the knee jerk reaction of the American liberal Democrat/Ron Paul supporter is to highlight every wrongdoing of American soldiers, which are out of the ordinary, widely condemned and punished while at the same time either defending of sympathizing with the plight of Islamo fascists--people whose very belief systems require the enslavement of their fellow man.
Why is that? Why is the knee jerk reaction of the American left to condemn America, American soliders, etc. while Islamic radicals set IEDs off in elementary schools? What I want to understand is the psychology behind this. How does urination on corpses receive such huge national spotlight, around the clock condemnation, and gasps of horror from the leftists while everyday atrocities like forcing children to blow themselves up in suicide attacks goes unnoticed by them?
Most of the atrocities committed by US soldiers are not dealt with by court of law and are buried deep down within the government until something like Wikileaks comes along. And I totally agree with you that defending the extremists are wrong and there are some weirdos out there justifying the actions of the taliban who are just plain stupid. You just have to accept that the US are considered 'good' and the terrorists are considered 'bad' and with that comes stereotypes. I dont necessarily agree with this way of thinking but if an American soldier rapes a child, it's considered 100x worse than a taliban member doing so because the extremists are kind of expected to. It's like if a convicted pedophile (bad guy) rapes a boy its less despisable than say a police officer or the Pope (good guys) doing the exact same thing. My main point before was just that there should be NO EXCUSE for urinating on a dead body.
Gee, I wonder if the media has anything to do with your perceived discrepancy in "acceptable" reactions to these types of events.
I am always amazed at how stupid the media can be. I assume that we are all on the same page- out of context this looks bad and boastful. But put into the mindset of a warrior (which I am not obv but I'll try to assume) these men were trying to kill his friends, sheltered a man who killed thousands of Americans, kidnap and torture soldiers, and continue to attack them in the hellhole that is Afghanistan. If some motherf*cker is spraying bullets at me and my friends and I get him...you would be damn sure he isn't being treated with reverence. It's war- not a fuckin game.
This exactly. It is human nature to be emotional and develop hard feelings towards enemies. If the U.S. authority couldn't understand that, they shouldn't have sent any of U.S. troops to Iraq or Afghanistan. It's easy to be a politician sitting in DC office to say that this shit was unacceptable and immoral and all that shit, but yeah how about you go fucking fight this war yourself and see how these U.S. marines would feel? Our politicians are such dickheads and pussies, full of hypocrisy and bullshit.
The Taliban, or non-Taliban Afghan freedom fighters (i.e. citizens who take up arms against weapon wielding foreigners in their country) would share this view. Except the motherf*cker in their case would be an American...
More broadly...
The rationale for US occupation and Taliban rule share the trait that they are both totalitarian ideologies. They are also both false.
Americans pissing on dead Afghan bodies is an accurate depiction of what you are doing to their country. It is not a "shocking" video because it is the exception to reality. You are not there out of the kindness of your hearts or to protect little schoolgirls who want to go to school. You continue to occupy their country out of either imperialism, totalitarian ideology, or for commerce (pick whichever reason applies in this case I'd suggest ideology.)
The reason there is an outrage is that this act (desecrating a dead body) by American soldiers challenges the myth that you are there to do good in a way that dropping bombs from unmanned drones doesn't. It challenges the narrative that you are fighting some kind of "moral war". The idea that your presence in another country is sinister is jarring to most Americans, but it is reality.
That's why we see the cognitive dissonance in this thread among people who haven't accepted the religion of America's moral war. People like original poster, ANT, have obviously reconciled their position by accepting the totalitarian ideology that America's role in the world is to spread "freedom" by use of military might as faith, or alternatively that it is fighting a "moral war" (the Christopher Hitchens argument for imperialism). This is clear from his comments like "might is right" and other forms of nonsense that he has mentioned in various threads. Like all totalitarian ideologies, it is false. For others who have not accepted the religion of the US state and moral war, this act is jarring because it exposes them in a tangible way to the knowledge that they are sacrificing their tax dollars, fellow citizens lives and collective reputation for someone else's misguided agenda.
We've been here before. Remember the Iraq helicopter "collateral murder" video that was posted on Wikileaks? It showed Americans that their war machine doesn't give a toss about morality or killing civilians, journos, or unarmed people. It challenged the false premise that you are fighting a "moral war" in a way that seeing rockets launched from ships or bombs dropped form the sky doesn't.
The sad irony is that most people in Afghanistan continue to suffer from two totalitarian ideologies, each of which purports to want to liberate them from the other and each of which feeds of off this conflict (Taliban rule and the US occupation)...
Question to the original poster (ANT). Are you religious by any chance? If not, are you sympathetic to one size fits all views of how the world should be / is (either utopian or dystopian)?
Disclosure: I'm not American. Have been trying not to reply to this thread as I usually avoid theological discussions, but in the end I had to share my non-American view of your misguided Afghanistan adventure.
Thank you for this post. Unfortunately most of the Americans on this forum will never see the sense in it.
cl234, I realize you aren't American and seem to have very poor English skills, but maybe you should consider staying out of conversations that you are incapable of grasping.
There is NO moral equivalency between terrorist and US soldiers. The US military mostly consists of good people trying to do good...the Taliban is made up of bad people doing bad.
As it was stated before, many of the people doing inappropriate things are still kids and they are being put in situations that you can't fathom. It doesn't make it right, but given the circumstances, some of us are saying that people should try to understand why they did it and to place themselves in the shoes of the soldier.
The point you were trying to make about the dogs makes no sense. I talked about service dogs that are trained to work and find bad guys and/or drugs...not the neighbor's pitbull. You are talking about untrained dogs/people...which in this analogy would be the equivalent of a general criminal vs. trained animals...or in this case, soldiers, who are purposefully being put into horrible situations and being asked/commanded to do horrible things to other humans...then people flip shit when they take it too far.
Again, not saying that it's the best choice, but it really isn't surprising given the circumstances.
As far as your link about the solider shooting the car with the family in it...I would have done the same thing. It's easy to Monday morning quarterback a situation and say, "Hey, you killed kids" but if they aren't complying and they don't stop when instructed...that car is going to get fucked up.
Regards
Love to hear these comments from kids that have never served...
I don't think we are spreading anything. The actions of the US military do not bother me because they benefit me. I pay taxes to create and continue this war fighting machine with the singular goal of protecting and promoting American interest.
Many times it is in our benefit to create Democracy as long as it is pro American.
Pissing on dead soliders doesn't shock me because I am a realist. It has happened in every war and the only reason we are seeing anything about it now is because we have Iphones and camera's everywhere.
Also, the USA has to be the shitties imperial power in history. We invade a country at our cost. Rebuild it at our cost and then leave it and buy from this newly "freed" country their goods at market prices. Every true imperial country in the past took over a country and pillaged it.
Compare the US behavior in Afghanistan to the USSR. Compare the US in Iraq to Britain throughout history. We roll in, spend all this money, try and help people and then leave.
When hundreds of thousands of Americans serve in a war, invariably, the law of averages means that there will be fuckups, then people will seize on those individuals to make paint broad strokes about the US military and foreign policy. I served my country honorably, and believe it or not I gave a shit about innocent people in other countries, so this makes me sick. But again, I get how it happened.
Tell me the depiction of the Taliban is based on a few bad apples. "Freedom fighters." Pfft. They can go back to stoning women and murdering gays when we leave, good for them, money stock market Ron Paul gold bars OMFG.
And it's a little old to have a bunch of faggot Europeans who conquered the world several times over finally decide to get squeamish about empire.
It would be easier to ask ANT, et al to tone it down or say hey, I know where you're coming from but these kids were out of line, etc., if some of the responses weren't worse. Relinquis, I know you mean well, but this moral equivalence ignores a lot of the facts on the ground. But I hate collateral murder as much as you do.
/end incoherent rant
Here's a serious opinion, by a serious soldier/politician who could very well be the POTUS one day.
http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/allen-west-marines-incident-shut-yo…
Sorry I'm not sorry, lol.
Regards
http://thesoldiersload.com/2012/01/16/explaining-the-inexplicable/
so this ANT guy, does he actually have a job?
Try asking me directly next time. And why is it pertinent to the discussion. War is hell and the people that we killed we not saints. I am sure plenty of Nazi's were piss on in WWII and plenty of American were pissed on in Vietnam. Does it make this right? No, but these actions are hardly something to get upset about.
It is also incredibly comical how the act of urinating on someone is something we have to apologize for, but the invasion and killing of people is not. I mean if we are going to mentally justify invading and occupying a nation for a decade we might as well think pissing on enemy corpses is kosher.
Seriously??? Pissing over a dead corpse is ok??
Let me recap.
You invade a country, try to impose your ideology on them, you fight with them, they fight back, you kill them for defending their country, then you piss on them and film it and that is totally ok? Seriously!!!!!
They were stupid kids, but God dont try to defend them!, kids like those shouldn't be given guns. I dont think anyone in this board ever lived in the conditions these people live.
Jeez, Ant, cant believe you are so stupid, i thought you had some brains, bu after this post you lost all credibility. I wish I had more monkey shit to throw at you.
How about you re-read what you just wrote. We do all the things you list, but the pissing is the straw that breaks the camels back? Really.
There are really two schools of thought with this situation and both should lead you to not caring about pissing on these guys.
1) The USA does no wrong, we invade and freed the country and the Taliban is evil. By their actions they defile themselves based on basic human rights as well as according to Islam. If you fight for the Taliban cause you support the Taliban policy, just as German soldiers fought for the Nazi cause. Piss on them couldn't desecrate them any more than their policy of attacking innocent people, persecuting women, gays and other religions as well as the other laundry list of human rights issues.
2) The USA does whatever it does to benefit Americans. We invaded a country because we can, we remove and install government as we see fit and our world view is preeminent. Might makes right. In that case we are no longer the righteous defenders of freedom, but the powerful nation controlling the world as we see fit. In that case the actions of these Marines were no more horrible than the illegal invasion of sovereign nation. To apologize for a trivial action in the face of such blatant and horrendous misdeeds is a joke. To apologize for pissing on people whom you unlawfully and illegally killed is completely silly.
How about we have an intelligent discussion on these points. That is the real issue.
You're a fucking idiot. You start a thread that doesn't just apologize for some idiotic soldiers, but applauds their terrible behavior. You then seem to think that people who disagree with you somehow are 'fighting the wrong battle' or not having their priorities straight. Are you too stupid to realize that people can judge an incident independent from other incidents and the fact that some actions are worse than others does not justify or make them okay?
You really are a very unintelligent person. Pretty amazing, really.
Haha, coming from you I will take it as a compliment.
I really can't see how someone can be so upset about this incident in the face of all the other crimes. I mean to focus on something as minor as this in the face of such grave injustices is comical. Have a different opinion all you want pal, I am just stating things as I see fit.
You always roll out with personal attacks which just makes your "argument" as weak as it is even more of a joke.
Why should I apologize for an action that doesn't faze me. I support the invasion and occupation.
Who said anything about even apologizing? You are delusional. It was you who made a thread that commended people for desecrating a body. Seriously, get a grip.
Delusional? Apologize? I do commend them. Sorry that I don't have much sympathy for a group of people who openly violate most accepted human rights. Their actions against their own people desecrate their bodies and lives. Pissing on them means nothing at this point.
Seriously, get a grip.
You're clearly missing the point, and your attitude is childish. Given the situation, what the marines did was understandable to an extent, but nonetheless unacceptable. I thought you'd realized that at some point, but I guess I was mistaken. Grow up; aren't you fucking 30?
Kum bay ya, my Lord, kum bay ya; Kum bay ya, my Lord, kum bay ya; Kum bay ya, my Lord, kum bay ya, O Lord, kum bay ya.
Someone's laughing, my Lord, kum bay ya; Someone's laughing, my Lord, kum bay ya; Someone's laughing, my Lord, kum bay ya, O Lord, kum bay ya.
Someone's crying, my Lord, kum bay ya; Someone's crying, my Lord, kum bay ya; Someone's crying, my Lord, kum bay ya, O Lord, kum bay ya.
Someone's praying, Lord, kum bay ya; Someone's praying, Lord, kum bay ya; Someone's praying, Lord, kum bay ya, O Lord, kum bay ya.
Someone's singing, my Lord, kum bay ya; Someone's singing, my Lord, kum bay ya; Someone's singing, my Lord, kum bay ya, O Lord, kum bay ya.
Kids do dumb shit all the time and this was one of them (IMO, the video taping was much dumber than the pissing). Who gives a shit? The fact of the matter is they were in a fire fight, won, and got excited and celebrated, so to speak. I'm sure none of you have ever done something dumb before.
The people that have commented opposing ANT should be thankful these guys are defending the freedoms that allow you to contest one another's opinion. If you were in AFG and you opposed something about the Taliban I'm sure, as ANT pointed out, they would do a bit worse then piss on you.
Next time you see a Marine or man in uniform why don't you shake his hand, thank him and buy him a fucking beer.
I would've fucking shit on them, personally.
Didn't read anything except OP, but I imagine this thread devolved down to the usual angry diatribe between "correct wing" ANT and "lefties".
That, said, I am left leaning overall and I have absolutely no problem with US marines pissing over Taliban bodies. (but filming it was not very smart, now we are going to suffer another mainstream round of debate about useless topics like this one).
This thread really shouldn't break down along those lines. I mean suppose someone is a huge liberal. They should consider the entire war a desecration and this pissing event just being the coup de grace.
Not sure if you mean that they "should" (as in, you expect them to) or they "should" (as in, if they are truly huge liberals).
Generally speaking, I was contrary to the wars (they seem a massive, massive waste of money in trying to obtain a result that could have been obtained in a cheaper way, but let's not get into that discussion), but still - in war anything but crimes vs humanity / infractions of Geneva treaty is allowed. Piss on their corpses, whatever. Don't particularly care.
I think overgeneralizing lefties as hypersensitive bleeding hearts is somewhat of a massive oversimplification - the same way as characterizing left wing as religious bigot hillbillies is.
Again, as a left leaning person, I find this news (the pissing scene) both unimportant and not something I particularly object to.
LOL you are so naive it's hilarious. Afghanistan was fine before the Soviet's fucked them and then the US installed the Taliban in power. If you're expecting a thank you from anyone about what the US has been doing in the middle east, don't hold your breath.
You are such a racist. If they are medieval cocksuckers like you say, your country has a lot to do with it.
How am I racist? Sorry if I believe in the preeminence of American policy.
I am actually surprised it took you this long to find the post haha.
You are a racist because you consider Afghani's and Iraqi's medieval cocksuckers who should thank America for bombing the shit out of them and pissing on their corpses.
(p.s. is there any proof that the corpses were actually Taliban?)
I suppose by medieval cocksuckers I should refer to Taliban specifically, but even if I intended it be applied to everyone, the living standard in Afghanistan is pretty much medieval. I mean fuck, no running water, horrible literacy rates, no healthcare, on and on. Might as well be the 15th century.
I also didn't include Iraq. Iraq is a pretty developed nation, just fucked up.
ANT, read a history book from time to time. America is very much responsible for the current living standards in Afghanistan. Go back 30-40 years before any foreign invasions, Afghanistan was fine.
MBP,
Again you come in here with this elitist attitude and claim that us 'lowly' Americans cannot possibly have the grasp on our foreign policy that you do. Its a tired trend and no more true today than it was any of the other countless times you've written about it.
That being said, you're definitely a smart guy, I have to give you that, but for fucks sake, stop preaching to 'Americans' about how they're brainwashed. You live in our hat.
LOL bro there's a reason I ignored this thread until now. I really really tried to resist. But there is just too much stupidity in this thread that needed to be addressed. If calling it out makes me an elitist then so be it. We do agree on one thing though - preaching to some of the crazy ass Americans on this forum is futile.
MBP - Afghanistan has been constantly at war throughout its history. If you want to get salty about things, blame Europe and then the Soviets.
Considering that you are from the ME, you should agree that the way the US executes this war is far superior to the way the Soviets treated the Afghan people. You should also agree that the Taliban was a curse to Afghanistan and human rights in that country.
The US invaded not to keep the peace, but to attack the Taliban and stop the harboring of terrorists. We have since stayed in an attempt to rebuild or help a country. It isn't going to happen, but hey, we tried. Once we leave the country will go back to keeping women in the basement and stoning people who get raped.
Oh wait, that isn't medieval at allllllll.
Nope, you're still not getting it.
Let's see...you have never served in the military, live in Canada and are of Middle Eastern decent...you sound like you are going to have the least subjective and most well informed opinion on this topic. That is to say, you have no clue what these soliders are going through so can't really offer an accurate analysis, you live in a country that is safe soley because of it's neighbor (the one you so speak so well of) and your parents left the part of the world you love to defend...but you haven't moved back, and never will...so I think that makes you a grade A hypocrite.
And you're right, we're just a bunch of dumm 'mericans down here so splaining lotts and lotss of things to usss is fertile!!!
I really wish you had enough self-control to stay out of this conversation, alas, you are weak.
Regards
LMAO so being an American who has served in the military makes you a more objective critic of what the US MILITARY does? No shit you'll defend every thing because you, by definition, cannot be objective.
Thanks for the laugh though!
Regards,
Doesn't necessarily make me more objective, but I have better insight into what conditions and situations these Marines have encountered...and understand that their real mistake was filming what they did and that their little end zone dance pales in comparison to the atrocities that are orchestrated by the Taliban on a daily basis.
Yet, as a typical liberal you are so far out of touch with reality it actually makes me sad. Half of the time you guys don't have the guts to call a spade a spade and you want to call terrorists 'extremists' all the while managing to conveniently forget the race of the suspect when it isn't 'white' and somehow fail to mention the common thread in nearly all of the potential and executed terrorist attacks on US soil...which is Islam. Then, when you're backed into a corner and have no choice but to admit the truth...in this case, that the Taliban is evil...you do so, but in the same breath you try to draw a moral equivalency between an organization that has the clear intent of violence and suppression (the Taliban) with that of an organization that attempts to spread democracy, peace and prosperity (the US military). People like you make me sick.
As an American, who has served and could potentially be drafted should the need arise, I have a vested interest in what American foreign policy is like and where we get involved. You don't. You will never be called up to serve your country...or mine...and I don't have a problem with that. I do have a problem with you and your liberal friends looking down your collective noses at those who do, have and will. As you stated, you have no use for facts and refuse to consider the stress and conditions these troops were under. Even worse, you try to twist reality to satisfy your demented liberal brain.
Regards
Hhaha, this thread is going to become an orgy of SB's and MS's lol
If American soldiers commit war crimes, yes, sodomize them by a hog.
If American were pissing on dead Iraqi soldiers I would actually be more enraged. See, to me, IMO, Iraqi soldiers were fighting for their government, just like American soldiers are. Within the Iraqi military there were especially horrendous groups that committed war crimes, just like there were German regulars and SS Einsatzgruppen.
Taliban fighters are fighting for a cause that is directly counter to human rights. The USA wants to leave that fucking country, we just want to leave it a Democracy. We can get into the argument that people should be free to govern how they see fit, but I think Democracy and human rights tend to be universally accepted as better than autocracy.
So by fighting for the Taliban you are fighting for people who think honor killing is cool, women should not be treated as equals, gays and other religions should be killed or destroyed, on and on. Basically the most vile things in the world.
I also don't know where I said every US soldier is Jesus in camo or doing Gods work. We prosecute scumbags all the time. Shit happens. How many Russians were prosecuted for war crimes. How many Germans or Japanese were prosecuted for war crimes (by their own military). We make mistakes, but there is an attempt to follow the "rules" of law.
Most Canadians I'm friends with are critical of U.S. economic and foreign policy, despite the fact that they directly benefit from both. Hypocrisy at its finest. Maintaining hegemony in the Middle East is essential to our economic longevity as long as we're dependent on oil (30+ years). And that's not just the US's economy, it's Canada's, Europe's and Asia's as well.
I think any person with morals would object to a soldier urinating on a dead enemy, regardless if he's a Taliban fighter. I'm as patriotic as anyone but I don't think we can defend their actions here.
SBs to cphbravo for that last comment. MBP, I wish you wouldn't smother some of your good points in liberal talking point BS. The point was made eons ago on this thread, but again the reason your moral equivalence is wrong is that the My Lais and Hadithas ( haditha is disputable btw) are the exceptions and most of us who did serve are absolutely sickened by it and would never imagine murdering innocents, whereas it is a specific tactic used by trained terrorists. I don't care how many Wikileaks links you and cl1234 post.
I know people who read the Nation think I'm a terrorist too, but if you don't see the distinction no reason to keep the flamewar going. Go niners.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pecunia_non_olet
Urine used to be taxed. Once again the USA is donating things free to a far off land...
Is there no end to our charitable contributions and selfless giving?!?! LOL.
Regards
I'm pretty sure ANT is not a racist. The guy is dating an Indian girl. Not a lot of Klansmen do that.
2 things--it wasn't him I said might be racist, and dating someone of a difference race doesn't exempt you from being racist.
ANT has already been called racist in this thread, so if I get confused on which liberal is throwing that accusation around at who then one must forgive me.
I would say dating someone of another race probably suggests you aren't a white supremacist.
Lol@trying to turn "liberal" into some kind of insult. I'm actually a Romney supporter if that means anything to you. Also, saying Islam is the root of "nearly all of the potential and executed terrorist attacks on US soil", and racially profiling kind of go hand in hand with racism. Also, being racist /= being a white supremacist, just to give you a heads up.
First off, Romney hardly embodies the conservative ideals...so that doesn't really prove much.
Anyways, my comment about Islam seems more 'accurate' than 'racist'...
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Pages/AmericanAttacks.htm
Also, I didn't even mention profiling. In fact, I was talking more about purposely removing race from situations...more like un-profiling. How about Mr. Sowell? Is he racist too?
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2011/08/16/social_degeneratio…
Regards
You realize Indians are considered Caucasian, right? Not to mention that there are plenty of people that are racist towards specific races, but not all races.
Molestiae ut dolorem amet repudiandae sunt. Velit quae velit quod et quo id id. Porro quia et animi ad dolorem reprehenderit. Neque ducimus ipsam nemo inventore quia voluptas rerum.
Voluptate vel ea quis est. Odio occaecati qui aut.
Velit dolores repellendus blanditiis molestias reprehenderit blanditiis rerum. Culpa possimus ipsa tenetur quia laboriosam ex. Ducimus aperiam vero illum ducimus ipsa. Perferendis voluptatum vel odit ut. Sint ut assumenda iste qui minima qui veniam. Non harum omnis asperiores eveniet officia qui.
Ipsam voluptatem odio facere maxime. Id rem possimus molestiae. Nisi totam modi qui earum est laudantium. Dolores delectus aliquam autem tempora numquam voluptatem. Ut fugiat aut eligendi et quisquam non impedit.
See All Comments - 100% Free
WSO depends on everyone being able to pitch in when they know something. Unlock with your email and get bonus: 6 financial modeling lessons free ($199 value)
or Unlock with your social account...
Et ut esse ut et eveniet hic. Sint vel adipisci alias quia hic. Soluta et consectetur voluptatum est. Modi fugit et at qui alias.
Enim numquam rerum ipsam cum iure itaque sapiente. Nihil perferendis at sint quasi quia similique. Nisi quibusdam et magni cupiditate esse cumque. Sit et facilis nam. Ea dolores ex quaerat est.
Dolore sit earum corporis molestiae est quidem est enim. Enim est nam quas quia in et. Ut molestiae est velit at aspernatur explicabo. Est praesentium eveniet fuga illum.
Qui velit harum sequi qui excepturi. Tenetur consequatur nihil sed aut autem. Voluptas nihil itaque et vitae non earum tenetur. Reprehenderit sequi maiores repellat rerum officiis. Non magnam accusamus rerum impedit dicta.
Voluptatem error et expedita et. Et nam voluptatem nostrum. Distinctio odio ut eos voluptas magnam repellat rerum.
Repudiandae sit consequatur rerum nostrum eligendi esse dolores. Tenetur animi iste sed nihil magnam tempore. Ut reprehenderit error totam non. Corrupti in omnis occaecati quo doloribus earum tenetur aperiam. Aut et ea non nisi.
Enim maxime et vitae molestiae. Odio laudantium aliquam qui quo et. Ut rem qui eos veniam sint. Dignissimos et velit distinctio expedita ipsam.
At labore natus iusto praesentium quas. Quisquam quaerat ut accusamus. Quia iste accusantium dignissimos reiciendis numquam. Beatae magnam earum aliquid impedit ut cum laboriosam. Qui ut voluptatum quas iste veniam tempora. Blanditiis est est laboriosam eveniet vero labore quidem.
Quo neque non et nemo et. Qui quo molestiae nulla neque ut. Culpa tempora in aliquam similique sed cupiditate quia in. Nobis voluptatem eum expedita.
Culpa minima qui modi id esse vel ut. Voluptatem quam et recusandae aut omnis quia commodi. Voluptatem harum consequatur quis praesentium quasi culpa laudantium. Nihil quod maiores suscipit nobis eligendi libero unde. Laudantium animi earum doloribus ipsa. Ab enim dignissimos est excepturi temporibus quo quidem.
At recusandae aut tempore reiciendis. Et dolorem at vitae illo. Voluptatem et optio ut omnis. Doloribus quo debitis tempore voluptas beatae dignissimos ut aut. Temporibus ut maiores nemo deleniti. Rerum incidunt iste et rem modi ratione architecto et. Libero delectus nostrum facilis praesentium vel.
Laboriosam fugit quia quam. At est itaque unde hic nesciunt. Est veniam et incidunt quia dolores consequuntur aut. Enim optio ducimus pariatur quis corrupti.
Nemo omnis et aperiam aperiam. Ullam eos molestiae iste. Quasi sint cumque quo sed mollitia eligendi eius.
Adipisci labore sunt non quasi natus velit tenetur. Dolorem eum voluptate qui quidem excepturi. Ex molestiae molestiae quas tempore labore blanditiis dolorem.
Voluptas nihil qui provident fugiat. Ex ut est ipsum rerum quae vel. Minus natus facilis quibusdam aliquid possimus. Est eveniet doloribus veritatis distinctio commodi sit. Aut harum dicta voluptates non non quam. Id et est nobis ipsa consequatur eum vitae.
Tempore repudiandae eos necessitatibus enim. Provident ex minus non velit dolor exercitationem. Voluptatem quia voluptas qui et iure qui.
Debitis magni excepturi dignissimos vero. Sed impedit vel ipsam consequatur placeat tempore nobis. Sit vitae aut eum rerum unde sequi.
Maiores non non est delectus voluptates. Necessitatibus repellendus officia doloremque repudiandae et. Blanditiis omnis beatae ipsam maiores laborum. Omnis qui dolorum asperiores quia illo doloremque dolor quis.
Fuga sit eos eius earum quaerat vitae voluptatem voluptatem. Dolor sint dolore placeat ex nobis. Voluptates nobis minus accusantium modi non eos voluptas. Incidunt eaque id voluptates enim mollitia sunt mollitia.
Nesciunt ut quod dolor. Et ut culpa perspiciatis nihil tenetur. Itaque est quos perferendis nemo omnis qui veritatis.
Numquam in aperiam assumenda beatae rerum. Voluptas velit alias et eos ratione dolor consectetur. Et laborum et neque non ipsam amet temporibus optio. Sunt amet et dicta. Dolorem et pariatur aut iste blanditiis natus. Dolorum optio repellendus aut doloremque. Ducimus sit minima qui.
Dolorum voluptatem quasi beatae commodi et assumenda. Eos nam et expedita dolores aut expedita cum. Et sit et provident veniam illum.
Qui culpa sit ea voluptatum iure sint rerum labore. Ut quia ea distinctio.
Dolores ut quis fugiat quod voluptate beatae quos dolorem. Vitae quia maiores fugiat ut. Accusantium quae sit aut cupiditate tenetur ducimus ab. Itaque ea quia blanditiis ab est distinctio. Blanditiis quidem expedita perferendis atque possimus iure. Consequatur voluptatum quasi a consequuntur aspernatur sit. Itaque est iste provident nisi ab libero quia.
Cum odio doloremque omnis. Sit quisquam et nihil suscipit nemo. Sequi minima quas dignissimos architecto.