Mask Wearing Controversy and Finance Layoffs

Analyst 1 in IB-M&A

I know a lot of banks have paused job cuts for the time being, but Wells Fargo and HSBC recently started cutting tens of thousands of jobs again. For the people who don't believe in wearing masks or that Covid is a hoax, don't you guys realize that if we don't get infections under control and the economic downturn is prolonged, investment banks may be forced to cut jobs? Whether thats freezing new hires or firing FT people, a prolonged economic downturn due to Covid certainly opens up the possibility that the investment banking industry may see broad job cuts. I get that America's all about freedom and everything, but is it really a violation of freedom for the government to ask people to temporarily wear masks during a global pandemic? I want to hear what you guys think about this, since its becoming more and more clear that if we dont get our act together its not gonna be just blue collar jobs that are affected by the Covid downturn.

Comments (56)

  • Intern in IB-M&A
Jul 11, 2020

We're going into some sketchy times come Fall. FT offer rates are going to drop, overall cost cutting everywhere and low bonuses. But this is the game of the industry, just hope everyone makes it out okay on the other side

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  • Prospect in IB - Gen
Jul 11, 2020

any groups/banks you think will be less affected? IPO market seems to be ramping up and Rx seems to be doing well as well.

  • Prospect in IB - Gen
Jul 11, 2020

LevFin activity has been booming.

Jul 12, 2020

Wait, what? Aren't times like these usually when LevFin suffers the most?

  • Prospect in IB - Gen
Jul 12, 2020

Thats what I was led to believe, but from what I understand, that has not been whats happening, at least from one of the groups I've spoken with.

Funniest
  • Prospect in IB - Gen
Jul 12, 2020

You'd normally be right, but now we have JPow so the game has changed

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  • Analyst 1 in HF - Other
Jul 12, 2020

Companies are raising tons of debt to try to get through Covid, and also taking advantage of tight credit markets due to Fed backing in the face of substantial uncertainty for the next 12 months

  • Prospect in Other
Jul 12, 2020

I spoke to a BB LevFin VP recently. He said that they have been having some of the best performance they have ever seen. So definitely not suffering.

  • Analyst 1 in IB-M&A
Jul 11, 2020

This question is primarily directed at the Covid deniers and people opposed to mask wearing btw

  • Analyst 2 in IB-M&A
Jul 11, 2020

3 months ago there were a ton of those dumb asses on wso

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  • Analyst 1 in IB-M&A
Jul 11, 2020

Exactly, and I want to see where they stand now after we've seen 130,000 Americans die and no end in sight to this pandemic. Seems like a new record of daily cases every week now.

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  • Associate 2 in IB-M&A
Jul 12, 2020

Wearing a mask really doesn't matter and won't make enough of a statistical difference in case numbers (directly from a team of physicians I'm doing a cap raise for who are working on Covid related technology) but anyone who denies that Covid is real has to be a bit of a moron. Vaccine won't be available for at least 12 months and even then mass distribution is another few months from there. Most people will contract the virus if they haven't already, estimations are that case numbers are about 10x confirmed cases. We all just need to get on with our lives and stop worrying about what other people are doing.

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Jul 12, 2020
Associate 2 in IB-M&A:

Wearing a mask really doesn't matter...

Mind telling that to all the other countries that wore a mask and moved past the worse of COVID-19? I'm sure they'd love to hear your advice...

"Markets can stay irrational longer than you can stay solvent."

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Jul 12, 2020

Stop spreading anecdotal misinformation about the masks & the virus - you are a part of the problem. It also bothers me when physicians (or any other science-based occupation that has nothing to do with virology) think that their opinions on Covid should be the end-all be-all

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Most Helpful
Jul 11, 2020

Wear a mask, wash your hands, and don't hit the bar scene. We can literally have some semblance of normalcy, including stronger than expected economic output as a nation, if you do these three things. It isn't a conspiracy, you aren't "owning the libs," it isn't a violation of your inalienable rights gifted to us by our constitution. Don't ruin this for the rest of us.

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  • Prospect in Other
Jul 11, 2020

This is really it. I've been following the situation and statistics very closely in my state since March, and the strict response and mask adherence has brought us into a very good place since early June. I'd love to see this on a national level for all of us.

Jul 12, 2020

Agreed on masks/precautions (wild ppl don't)... and bars/entertainment facilities should not be open/should not have opened already. However, the reasons for layoffs/BKs/furloughs whatever were from the shutdown overreaction. It is factually clear now that the virus is essentially not fatal and has little impact to younger ppl (younger as in sub 65, but we can call it sub 40). There should never have been any closure, instead older or at risk people should have been taken care of / quarantined (with them sheltering asymptotic spread from younger ppl is moot... also the %/risk of asymptotic spread is still being argued). With those at risk staying home... things could have maintained the status quo and the economic impact would be much less severe. Younger, healthy individuals are at~0 risk of death and minimal hospitalization risk (so please do not bring up clogging the system, just 18% of NYC hospitalizations are below 44yrs).

It is shocking how few people research / look at the data (or frankly cannot interpret it). Most people's roles require them to review data, make some assumptions etc, and come to a conclusion... yet they still believe that the increases in younger ppl infections is end the world. Again the virus does not affect younger healthy people (or does so very little).

Also quite funny with the OP and some comments about how they may lose an internship/offer/get canned... and now we must pay attention!!

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Jul 14, 2020

18,825 people were hospitalized at the peak in NY; 18% of that is 3,388 people under 44. Kinda surprising to see this affect "young" people like that but these are the figures

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Jul 12, 2020

Speak for yourself, if the bars are open (which they are where I'm living), I'm going

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Jul 13, 2020

Exactly, thanks.
Living in Europe, after all what we went through, American people we see protesting on the news because they don't want to wear mask, going to covid parties, etc. just look like fucking retards.
It's not of question of "I live in the land of free and can't be forced to do anything"... Just stop being fucking selfish and try not to spread the virus and wear a fucking mask ffs

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Jul 11, 2020

Banks have been aggressively hiring for years and if there is some right-sizing to be done, it's not going to be because a few people pushed back on masks and made things last a few weeks longer.

Someone did a study and it showed that mask use isn't highly correlated with requirements anyways. In the states with more loose rules, people are still choosing to wear masks sometimes when not required, ie applying common sense. Not every time obviously, but point is that rules only matter so much.

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Jul 12, 2020

Why all the MS on this? He's right. Mask use, social distancing and reduced mobility all happened well in advance of the first government-imposed restrictions and have not fallen in lockstep as certain locations loosen their restrictions. Just take a look at the Oxford Containment Index next to the various mobility data indicators.

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Jul 12, 2020

Good point about the mobility indicators.

People want to believe this virus is the only thing threatening professional services. Unfortunately I think a lot of these banking/consulting/law firms were built up in recent years on expectations of a growth rate that was never realistic. Virus will pass, but the dose of reality will stick around longer.

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Jul 12, 2020

Well, good luck convincing Karens and Karens' husbands to wear masks. All they care about is THEIR OWN freedom. They might as well live in their own tiny little worlds.

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Jul 12, 2020

So how bad is the SA headcount cut gonna get?

Controversial
  • Prospect in IB - Gen
Jul 12, 2020

I know I'm gonna get MS for this, but what the government should be doing instead of mandating masks is ensuring that those who are vulnerable are protected. At this point, we don't know much about this disease except for the fact that it is extremely deadly to the elderly and those with underlying health conditions (obesity, respiratory issues etc) other than that, this thing is not very deadly at all. The death rate for those under 60 with no underlying health conditions is <.1%, and that's not even taking into account how many un-confirmed cases there are (unconfirmed cases are estimated to be 10x higher than confirmed, which makes death rate 10x lower). So we should be allowing the young and healthy people to live their lives and if they do all catch the virus, then very few of them die and we begin building up some form of herd immunity, while protecting the most vulnerable.
EDIT: Instead of just tossing monkey shit at me, I'd actually like to hear some decent responses. Give me a reason why I'm wrong and should change my mind.
EDIT 2: You guys can continue tossing monkey shit at me all day; that doesn't make me any less wrong, or you any more right

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Jul 12, 2020

Seriously? This was the same nonsense espoused in March that has landed us in today's position.

The situation is so much more nuanced than the misappropriation of fatality rates. Are you familiar with how healthcare systems operate? The fact that they can become overrun? The idea that when they are overrun with Brad and Chad displaying mild symptoms of COVID-19, healthcare providers cannot dedicate resources to elective procedures that keep these same systems "in the black?"

I haven't even broached the topic of younger persons being super spreaders of the virus because #herdimmunity and whatever other entitled pollution infects peoples' minds. Please don't be a simp.

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  • Prospect in IB - Gen
Jul 12, 2020

Well, if we had done it correctly in March, we wouldn't have nearly as many deaths as we do today. Just look at the examples of Tex/FL vs NJ/NY. The former states did not force nursing homes to accept elderly patients who were known to have tested positive for Covid, rather they isolated these people from the vulnerable. The northeastern states, on the other hand, forced nursing homes to accept patients with Covid, which decimated their elderly population. This is why the deaths/100K in Tex/FL is 11 and 20 vs in NJ it's 174 and NY (outside of NYC) it's 78 and in NYC it's 277. Not saying Tex/FL have done it perfectly because they haven't but just one example.
Also when "Brad and Chad" get infected, they rarely have to go to the hospital and take up medical resources, because like we already know, the young and healthy are much less vulnerable than the elderly and group with underlying conditions. And yes, younger people can still spread the virus, which is why I suggested in my original post that we do everything we can to separate the vulnerable population.
No need to call me a simp just because you disagree.

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Jul 12, 2020

The lunacy on this forum and from your neanderthal-thinking (lol get it) and lack of data interpreting makes me question how you are still in IB.

Texas and all the states that opened up BACK IN APRIL were completely FINE. Everything was fine. Cases didn't skyrocket, they were steady and life was back to normal for the most part.

And then here it comes - BLACK LIVES MATTER. In June the country erupted in protests but THESE PROTESTERS ASSUMED THE RISKS of COVID-19 and the risk of an explosion of cases. AND GUESS WHAT? IT HAPPENED. No one is talking about it though. So STOP blaming states from opening up and just realize it was due to overcrowded places such as protests and bars (yes shutting down bars and clubs was the right move)

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Jul 12, 2020

It's a great time to be a Political Science major. Literally anything can be politicized now. Our country has managed to turn a global health pandemic into a wide spread political controversy.

Anyone whos is reading this please heed my advice. Don't participate in this nonsense. Use your brain, wear a mask, wash your hands and just hunker down, get some work done, play some video games or whatever you do.

Also exercise. I've been doing yoga every morning for 30 minutes and running more often. Previously I only lifted weights. If your out in suburbs with your parents because your home from school then get outside more. It's healthy to get away from noisy bars and social events.

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  • Associate 2 in IB-M&A
Jul 13, 2020

Or just get on with your life and don't take advice from some kid on WSO.

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Jul 13, 2020

I find it both sad and funny that this has become a political talking point in America. I'm glad my government took action fast and we're down to 0-5 cases a day. As a result no one has to wear masks either.

It's never too late to admit that you were wrong. For as long as this is going to continue, please just wear that damned mask and avoid endangering others just because you're stubborn.

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