Masters student who needs direction
Hello,
I graduated with a BA in Economics in May 2011 from UConn. Now I am going for my MS in Mathematics at Fairfield. I think I may pursue a Masters in Mathematical Finance or Financial Engineering when I graduate from Fairfield, but I need programming and work experience. My work experience is limited to me working at my dad's residential real estate company. I want to go into trading. I live in the NYC Metro Area so I could commute from home everyday.
Anyways, where should I try to find a job this summer? Prop firm? Is it to late for Sales & Trading internships at banks (only interested in trading side)? Any particular companies I should look at? I don't have any real trading experience yet so I want to go to a place where I could learn a lot.
Thank you
there are some prop firms that post at uconn, did you interview with any of them?
and youre asking about internships now that the semester is done? did you do any internships while in school or just work for your dad? or are you saying you have no work experience so you can only work at your dads company lol
I did not interview with them. I've applied to a variety of internships over the past year, but have not gotten any interviews. I went back to school for math, because I know that complex math is becoming more and more important in trading. I graduated with Honors and a 3.64 GPA at UConn so my grades aren't bad. I do not having any finance experience so I know I have to start at the bottom. I just want an internship. I don't really understand the lol.
;[ why didnt you intern at all in school? were you at least heavily involved on campus?
I didn't know what I wanted to do before I graduated. I was not really involved on campus. I didn't really position myself well over those 4 years, but my grades are good, not great. I wish I did more now, but I can't change the past.
its way too late for any S&T trading internships all of that stuff was months ago for the initial stages even... why didnt you start to look earlier? for an MFE you dont need work experience.. i think that may be your best move, when do you graduate with the MS from fairfield? i was the first uconn grad at my old firm which is one of the better NYC prop shops but i had a lot of internships/experience/involvement on campus/trading competition stuff and its really tough to try to walk up to a prop shop (which tend to hire straight from undergrad -- at least the good legit ones) and be like hi i only have decently good grades from xyz state school (since thats how the street is) and no work experience or leadership.
and a lot of the 'base' internships that people are gonna take are gonna have preference to be given to younger kids who show the hunger and initiative to jump out and get an internship rather than just the post-grad' icant find work and need an internship cuz i never had one before' crowd.. not trying to be harsh just trying to be realistic
So if I need an internship to get into a MFE program and need to be an undergrad to get an internship what do I do?
I graduate next spring. I think I want to get a MFE, but many of the programs want to see an internship. That's all I want right now.
and if you say 'i didnt know what i wanted to do' a recreuiter is going to ask well why didnt you have any internships since those are what help you find what you want to do? i did mine for a financial advisor and hated it and knew i didnt want to do that but was more interested in the funds themself... why do you want to do trading? have you done trading competitions? any experience with the markets? those are the types of things youre going to have to answer
Trading intrigues me. I don't know if I would say this in an interview, but when I was 14 I started playing poker. I like the game and how I take calculated risks to maximize my expectation value while limiting the risk of ruin. I see a lot of similarities to trading.
dont NEED to be but a lot of them are going to have that preference weighing against you. do you have any involvement or leadership experience or do you just have the two degrees and working @ dads company on your resume?
I was a volunteer fireman for 5 years, a member of a fraternity and the risk manager, Relay For Life Team Captain for 3 years, nothing related to finance though. I know it's not impressive stuff compared to what a lot of people have done.
I didn't spend time thinking about post-grad too much as an undergrad. I was just living day by day. I don't know what I have to do to make up for this mistake.
I have a question. How on earth did you get into a MSc in Mathematics with only a BA in Economics? That would literally never happen at my university unless you did at least abstract algebra, point set topology, real analysis, complex analysis, and partial differential equations. Why on earth would you take these courses in a BA in Economics?
I took Calc 1-3, Linear Algebra, Differential Equations, and Probability. So far in my Masters program I started in the Spring I took Complex Analysis and PDE. We have to take Real Analysis, Complex Analysis, Linear Algebra, and Abstract Algebra before graduation. No topology.
risk manager is just making sure no one does anything illegal and the pledges dont drink too much which i think most guys in finance know... but ultimately it just seems like you went to class and partied at your frat and didnt do anything else careerwise because you were busy partyin with your frat and not doing much else. that may or may not be true but thats what the stereotype is going to be. saying 'i want to make a lot of money' is cool for a trading interview if you have a lot of credentials behind you but lacking that it just looks dumb. its going to be very very tough, dunno what to say :| MFE might be best
but it has to be a real mfe, not at a school like fairfield
I'm going to Fairfield to get more math courses. A lot of schools want Real Analysis, Numerical Analysis, PDE, and the Stochastic Processes. The Math faculty is really good though, better than UConn I think. A couple of my professors went to NYU (Top 10 Math Program), another wrote the book for my PDE class. My Masters shouldn't be seen like Shaq's new doctorate.
Shorttheworld, I see you did economics as well. I'm sure you had a lot of characters like Bob Martel too. Was your GPA much higher or lower than mine? Where did you do your internships? I was starting to think companies were rejecting me, because I had a 3.64 from UConn, not a 3.8 from Harvard. I didn't realize they had a disdain for people who wanted to start after they got their bachelor's even if they were willing to take the same internship the college juniors were doing.
To be clear, I don't need to work in sales & trading for an investment bank. I just want to work where I can get good experience and learn a lot. I don't want to get scammed at one of these places that says put your money down. I think it's pretty easy to get bad trading advice from places. Above all else I want world class training.
The answer to your question is not to get anymore BS schooling. Take short's advice and try to get into a real program. It might even be prudent to quit your MS at Fairfield and try to get into a reputable MS program.
A lot of the top schools require numerical analysis which I still have to take. Unless you think they would let one class slide? I probably can't get into Berkeley, but maybe UCLA? I also need to find a way to demonstrate programming experience. I also probably need to get my GRE scores up. 790Q/450V/4.0AWA.
What schools say and they way schools behave about entry requirements can often be quite divergent.
With the attitude you have, you're basically screwed. Go take a job at the Hartford. Stop wasting everyones time.
Is this just a high-end troll?
You're not very constructive. Your lack of class makes your opinion useless. You're the one who is trolling. I'm trying to learn.
Waahhhh...
I'm not the guy on a web forum arguing with people who are trying to help me out.
Wahhhhh? You sound like a miserable person. Once again, when you act this way your opinion becomes useless. I think you have trouble reading. I'm not arguing with him, I'm simply conversing. I asked where he went, because at UConn and other places Real Analysis is a prerequisite for Topology. I thought this was standard so I am asking where he went. Now, you can man up and apologize, run away, or continue to act immature. Your choice.
i had a sub 3 gpa and did financial advisory, economic development and worked with the ct hedge fund association . did a lot of trading competitions against various asset classes and did well in them.if youre doing a lot of math classes u could have taken at uconn might have been just better to have done a dual econ/math degree through uconn for cheaper or something :| i used to think fairfield was a prestigious pricy school but my mindset on that has changed.
and why ucla or berk? i dont think either of those are big trading firm quant hire places... you have programming to match the math?
i had a sub 3 gpa and did financial advisory, economic development and worked with the ct hedge fund association . did a lot of trading competitions against various asset classes and did well in them.if youre doing a lot of math classes u could have taken at uconn might have been just better to have done a dual econ/math degree through uconn for cheaper or something :| i used to think fairfield was a prestigious pricy school but my mindset on that has changed.
and why ucla or berk? i dont think either of those are big trading firm quant hire places... you have programming to match the math?
They have spring admissions. The east coast schools start in the fall and are too late to apply to so I'd have to wait until the fall. I don't have the programming though. I think I should take a couple courses before applying. I think that and my lack of internship are my biggest weaknesses. My GRE Verbal/AWA also isn't great, but I don't know how much they care about those as long as the quantitative is good.
By the way if I could do it all over again I would have gotten a degree in Applied Math and minored in Statistics/Economics. I was doing premed classes for a while.
As for Fairfield vs. UConn. UConn is probably more rigorous, but the faculty as a whole (at least for math) is much better at Fairfield. Overall I felt that the professors I've had at Fairfield care more about the students and know what they teach a lot better. It's pricey for undergraduates and is the #2 regional school in the Northeast behind Villanova. UConn's reputation has gone up in recent years and has probably passed them in terms of prestige.
Why not apply to some prop shops? Most don't really have a regular recruiting cycle--the bigger ones might, but most people don't end up at those anyway. Correct me if I'm wrong, but unless you're looking to be a purely quant trader, it seems as if you have the basics maths covered.
I don't think you're school is holding you back. Too many people blame their school.
I know there's a lot of scams out there and companies that make you invest your own money in your trades. I want to avoid those although I know I probably am not ready for Jane Street. What are some good shops to work at that will teach me a lot in the NYC-Stamford area? Learning is the #1 priority for me right now. I'm not comfortable with a shop that has a 2 week training program. I want to work for a company that is serious about making people good traders.
There are plenty in the NYC area--consider Chicago too though--some of the best are there--if you're serious enough about the job, location should be an afterthought. Take a look at all of these threads-- //www.wallstreetoasis.com/tag/proprietary-trading-firms --most should be NY/Chicago firms. Most of all though, you need to network. I personally don't believe another degree will land you a job. You need to fully appreciate your accomplishments, believe in yourself, and market yourself as the person you know you are and the person you want to become. Of course networking is easier said than done. I always hated when people told me to hit up my family network. Really? I should hit up my family network when none of them work in finance, and none of my immediate family have even been through college? But there's some truth to it regardless of how slim your network may seem at this point. If it's not big, grow it--don't turn down any opportunity to network, or to grow your network. Use each and every avenue you can to get yourself in front of the people in power. There are an infinite number of routes to the same endpoint, and I guarantee you the one you're envisioning now is not the one that will get you there. Best of luck--stay optimistic.
the reason its going to be hard for him to get into a prop shop that isnt a pure quant place and that is good is because he has 0 finance experience and no filler on his resume o ther than making sure pledges dont puke too much... so thats why he needs to aim for a good MFE program and learn programming which is a necessity for the MFE if he really wants to do trading. there are other possibilities
you cant just wake up one day and decide 'hey i want to be a trader' when there are hundreds of kids who have been doing trading competitions and other stuff and following the markets day in and day out over the past 4 years of their undergrad career... and like i said and as most know, trading firms will tend to like people fresh from school. the 'so why didnt you do any internships or trading comps before' followed by 'didnt know what i want' isnt going to cut it at all when your resume is in the mix with thousands of others. you have to do what you can to change that starting right now. might be able to find some back office internship at a hedge fund doing derivatives stuff (or something quanty-ish) in fairfield county but you have to poke around for that
and i think youd want or prefer the more rigorous coursework to prepare you for the more elite programs rather than an expensive carebear feelgood faculty, wouldny you? or are you not paying?
It's not that they make me feel good. It's that they know their stuff and know how to teach it. A lot of the professors I had at UConn, in both Math and Economics were absolutely terrible. You probably know that as well. I didn't even go to half my classes, because it was a waste of time.
nvmd
Just looked up the maths Major (concentration, as they call it) at Harvard. Topology is NOT a prereq for analysis there either. In fact, it looks like it's a completely optional class that you dont have to take ever while you are there.
I suppose Harvards program is also sub par, especially compared to the mathematical powerhouse known as the U of Toronto.
I'm not going to sit here and say that a Masters from Fairfield is held to the same regard as schools that require Topology, Analysis, and Algebra to get in. It's not. However, what it does do is strengthen my math background. I can now say I have taken PDE on my application. I now know you can manipulate Black-Scholes into the Heat Equation. I don't need all the courses in the program, but a lot of them are useful. The way I see it, I might as well complete all of them so I can say I have a Masters in Mathematics, even if it isn't from a top notch program. I'm not applying for a PhD in Math at Harvard, I'm applying for Finance programs. I hope at the very least they interpret my Masters as fulfilling all of their prerequisites. The number one reason why people do not get into Finance programs is because of a lack of a Mathematics background.
what crack are you smoking man??? lol
I went to an info session at MIT last fall. A lot of applicants apply from business school without the math background required (Multivariable, ODE, Linear Algebra, Probability). These people get weeded out right away.
a lot of people dont need high end math for b school so i dont know what ur talking about lol
I do want to go to a top 10 school if I go back. The top schools all pretty require Multivariable, ODE, Linear Algebra, Probability, and Statistics. Some also require Numerical Analysis or Real Analysis. I should have made that clearer. My bad.
ITT you have people who have made it trying to give advice to people who haven't made it and they aren't listening.
When it comes to math MBP knows what he is talking about
When it comes to being a fuck up and making it STW knows exactly what he is talking about.
Don't come here and argue, you asked for advice more so you asked for direction... they have given you direction and you are not listening. You came into this thread not for advice but looking to have your ego stroked saying you're doing all the right things. Truth be told you aren't. You're more than likely wasting money going to Fairfield but life is what you make of it. The advice I can give you is just stop and think.. and realize that spending money isn't always the way to get to where you want to go. Network and talk to people if you want to get into trading talk to people who work in trading....or who have worked in trading...
First of all, I do appreciate the advice. However, I don't think it's fair for you to make assumptions about me like that. It just isn't true. I am listening and I am internally debating Fairfield now. I'm also sharing a little bit of my perspective and I appreciate any of the constructive criticism people have of it. Are you actually 19 years old as your profile indicates?
Yes.
no.
Are we thinking of the same degrees? I'm not talking about a MBA. I'm thinking of a MFin, MFE, MSCF, MSFM, or similar.
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