Opportunities for a math PhD

Hello

I am currently in graduate school, finishing my doctorate in the field of mathematics. I did my undergrad in math and computer science, and I have a lot of experience in both of those fields. I also have some work experience as a software engineer. I was initially planning on doing a postdoc and working in academia, but I am very interested in finance as well. I can't decide between those two fields, so I think the best way to decide is by seeing in which field I can make the most money. I know this is a really stupid way of thinking, but I think it is best for me.

I don't really know much about quantitative roles in finance either. I have tried searching around, but I can barely find any information. If someone can clear it up, it would be great.

What are the types of quantitative roles in finance?

Is the work interesting on a day to day basis (I know this will vary)? I love doing research and working as a soft. eng, but I am not 100% sure about finance because I have no experience in it.

Is there potential for growth? I do not want to be capped off at a particular role and salary with no room for growth. I read that some of the "higher up" roles in finance are MD and portfolio managers. Is there an opportunity for people in quantitative jobs to reach those positions over some number of years?

Thanks

 

Hello mathfinancephd,

No offence, but your academic qualifications doesn't align with your ability to be resourceful. That, or you make up the sample of academically smart people with zero street smarts.

To present a counter example to your "I have tried searching around, but I can barely find any information [on quantitative roles].", here are the 4th, 5th and 6th link to the Google search "quantitative trading", all of which I already read in the past and thought of recommending to your prior.

Michael Halls-Moore's introduction to quantitative roles: https://www.quantstart.com/articles/Beginners-Guide-to-Quantitative-Tra… Two excellent Quora threads on exactly what you asked, different quantitative roles in finance: https://www.quora.com/What-are-the-differences-between-traders-quants-a… https://www.quora.com/How-can-a-beginner-break-into-Quant-Algo-trading

Cheers, Nijikon

 

Thanks for the reply. I had read the Quora threads, but not the article on the quantstart site (so thanks for linking that). The part I was mainly referring to with "I have tried searching around, but I can barely find any information. If someone can clear it up, it would be great." were my last two queries about the work being interesting and the potential for growth in the profession.

 

I recently attended a doctoral business programs fair and one admissions director said "linear algebra and maybe real analysis" would be good classes to take for credit to demonstrate math acumen. I think a one year msf or mfe might be a useful credential booster, particularly if you're applying at a very competitive school. That route could work if it was at the same school you want to earn the doctorate from. The downside to this is the added cost (both tuition and another year not working).

 

Thanks Lou. +1 I'll definitely put lin alg and real analysis at the top of my list of classes to take in addition to multi var (can't believe I didn't take it in college). I'm not exactly interested in pure finance per se, but would an MSF require high levels of math as well? And would I have time to take the math classes I need if I'm trying to do a 1 year MSF?

 

Thanks for the SB man, appreciate that. You should ask @TNA about doing a 1 year MSF with the intention to go on to a doctorate. MSF programs are more applied math versus the theory courses such as real analysis and lin alg which are killer. And I personally wouldn't recommend taking those together in the same semester. I was math/econ undergrad and have pondered going for a business doctorate myself but thought about taking a msf 1st to get re-acclimated (I've been out of school for eight years) and to truly test whether I want to do a full on doctoral program anyway. The one problem I see is the price tag 50-70k for a one year MSF that's really tailored towards people who intend to work in finance, opposed to the academic/researcher route. Maybe if you did a 1yr at an instate public school it would make sense, but borrowing 50 to go into a doctorate program which you might not finish anyway is too risky imho.

In what limited research I've done, msf programs are mainly about the gre/gmat score and care less about your math background going in. With that being said, taking courses such as multi-calc and diff eq would probably be useful for the most elite masters programs. Some msf programs like Vandy and Duke, have tracks which are designed to be pre-doctoral prep. Baruch in NYC offers a pre-mfe program which may or may not be useful for you to simply get the math exposure and a chance to demonstrate the ability. I think that's a lot cheaper than a full fledged msf, considering you intend to get a doctorate anyway.

 

Apply offcycle to quantitative HFs and proprietary trading shops. Depending on your background and your knowledge, you'll find demand for your experience easily.

GoldenCinderblock: "I keep spending all my money on exotic fish so my armor sucks. Is it possible to romance multiple females? I got with the blue chick so far but I am also interested in the electronic chick and the face mask chick."
 

Have you already started or are you looking for an answer that will influence your decision to do a maths Phd at a non target? If you've already started, you dont have much wiggle room other than just trying to get in as an analyst. If you have yet to start, there area lot easier paths to take.

 
Best Response

It's not simply overqualified it's that having a doctorate in math has little to do with IB and it would be a hindrance because banks recruit (at least in the US) at an undergrad level and people would question why you have a PhD and your goal is to get a job that undergrads get. I'm not saying it could never happen but I see it as something you'd have to get over and there are many other things you could do with a math PhD such as quant stuff that people mentioned above (I suppose that depends on the school but I'll let others comment on that).

Personally I don't like hiring people with doctorate level degrees. A few years ago one of my partners got a hard on for PhD's (I really have no idea why) so we hired a few finance PhD's and by the time you get a doctorate you've been ensconced in academia for so long that a non-cerebral field like PE (or IB) just isn't a fit. It's too fast paced, it's not academic and it's not theoretical. It's making deals based on the best information you have available very quickly and dealing with irrational people on the other side of the table (and I don't mean irrational as bad but they're not rational actors in a theoretical situation). I remember asking one of them to put together something relatively simple (don't recall exactly but something like an industry analysis, gather data on a target and some comps-nothing tough) that would have taken another associate level person a few days (private and public companies so the data isn't always as easy as CapIQ) and I wasn't in a huge rush. He emailed me the next day with this 25 step plan, needing external resources (consultants) and access to databases and research we didn't have (and we had the normal stuff) and would need something like 6 weeks to get it. And he thought that was a tight deadline because it wasn't going to take an academic semester or year.

 

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