Math Majors on Wall Street

What are the most fitting positions for a Math Major on the Street. What types of positions do you guys think that Math Majors would be best suited for and what are the specific titles (ex. quant analyst, risk manger, etc.)?

 

if you're good at coding (in particular C/C++ or high-level languages like MatLab, Python), then quant/quant developer. The specific names for those positions vary widely throughout the industry. If you have little experience coding, then 'strategist' might be a good option (though that will entail a fair amount of coding also). Some of the BBs have moved a lot of their quants into full front-office positions and call them strategists (e.g. at GS, JPM).

 

Cool, I'm also a comp sci major...but am not sure that I want to be coding all day. Which positions above are less focused on coding and more about the models and research aspect?

 

Sounds like a bragging post. If not, of course you aren't at a disadvantage over others. Being a math major differentiates you from all the finance majors applying. You'd probably have a better chance at landing a S&T job due to the quant background as well, but doesn't put you at a disadvantage for IB.

People with all sorts of majors are in IB / S&T...most of the stuff you learn on the job and especially with IB, pretty much anyone can do the work. Having a 3.9 at a top-25 target is a solid advantage over many trying to find jobs.

 

Being a math major is by no means a disadvantage for IB or S&T. Coming from a target school, any major has a shot at IB, and math majors are definitely looked highly upon, especially with a course or 2 in finance and a high GPA. Use your alumni network, sell that boutique IB experience on your resume and start applying.

Check out this article on majors: http://www.bankonbanking.com/2009/09/27/picking-your-college-major-and-…

PM me if you have any other questions.

 

I'm a math major myself, and what I've heard from some people who've been through recruiting is that people who look at your resume (especially in IB), are looking for people who are much like themselves, and they might see a math major's resume and automatically think "oh he's a math nerd" or something equivialent like that, and not grant that person an interview, especially if you "math-ify" your resume a lot (by putting advanced math classes under coursework etc)...the people actually reading your resumes are very likely to be 1st or 2nd year analysts, who are going through 500 resumes late at night when they are tired and want to go home, so one can get get turned down for the most arbitrary reasons, one of them being that the person reviewing your resume wants to interview someone just like himself (i.e business/liberal arts major)....

take this with a grain of salt though, I don't know how true this is, i heard this from an upperclassman who probably said this to me to justify his inability to do math and make himself feel better about having a "soft" major and getting into IB...i sorta heard similar things from other people, so I removed all my advanced math coursework (stochastic processes, PDE, topology etc) from my resume, and the only mathy part of my resume now is my math major GPA and the fact that I'm a math major

 

If you can get near 4.0 doing math, then you should go for it. You will have a good chance at getting a job provided you network, get experience with internships, and showing interest in finance through clubs. A lot of the major chicago based prop trading firms like math majors. You would also have a good chance at BBs for S&T in NY if you network.

 

Do Math if you really enjoy the process of figuring things out. Does having that on your resume help? Yes. Do people look at you different? Yes, however, in a good way. First and foremost you must network, no matter what school you go to! It is not 2006 anymore. Even H/W/Y kids are having a rough ime getting jobs. Follow the link above as well. The gentleman that runs this sight is a very credible source from my personal experience. Finally, it is college. The subject matter you choose to major in SHOULD be something you enjoy, because that is what you will be doing for 4 years. I am a Math major and it has worked out for me, but I do network like it is a religion. Interpersonal skills are more important than anything else, regardless of your major. In this industry, it seems that being likable is a very important trait to have, because you will being spending 12hrs/day with the people in whichever group you end up in. Take heed.

If you ain't buy side what are you doing on Wall St.? Gimme something good sport...
 

If you can pull a 4.0 in Math at a reputable school and you are not socially awkward, you'll be able to get interviews / offers. Beware though; the Math major is harder than it would initially seem.

 

Math is a fantastic field to study to get into certain parts of finance. In my honest opinion, the math and quantitative theory is a much harder skill set to learn on the job and provides an excellent foundation for learning finance (which is an application of math and economics). Most of finance you can learn on the job, but having the math background with great grads easily shows your potential employers that you are highly capable of succeeding. Unless you really want to be a quant, getting through real analysis, linear algebra, and diff eq would be sufficient. These classes could also get you into grad programs such as MBA, MSF, or Econ Phd.

I’m standing on the edge of some crazy cliff. What I have to do, I have to catch everybody if they start to go over the cliff—I mean if they’re running and they don’t look where they’re going I have to come out from somewhere and catch them.
 

Go for math no matter what. Or if a university has it, a quant finance program (not sure how common this is for ugrad). even if you don't follow the quant route, if they see that you can learn that shit, it's honestly not too hard to learn finance. Buy BIW and read some books and you're set when it comes to finance.

I'm a finance major and wish I could go back and get a math degree. Plan on getting one some day, however I'm graduating and am only taken up to calc 2.

Good luck

"History doesn't repeat itself, but it does rhyme."
 

dude this is such a broad question. but math is great to study, just be sure you don't become too much of a nerd. Go to some parties too and hook up with girls. That is where the real learning takes place in college, not in the class room..

 

How much different is Calc2 at target school compared to non-target? Did Newton create a mathematical caste system or something? I understand at schools with better departments you will get more rigourous training, but an integral is the same to everyone. I went to a non-target school then directly into a highly quantitative PhD program at one of the schools mrb87 mentioned. My background was sufficient.... the derivative of log(x) was still 1/x.

I’m standing on the edge of some crazy cliff. What I have to do, I have to catch everybody if they start to go over the cliff—I mean if they’re running and they don’t look where they’re going I have to come out from somewhere and catch them.
 
HoldenC:
How much different is Calc2 at target school compared to non-target? Did Newton create a mathematical caste system or something? I understand at schools with better departments you will get more rigourous training, but an integral is the same to everyone. I went to a non-target school then directly into a highly quantitative PhD program at one of the schools mrb87 mentioned. My background was sufficient.... the derivative of log(x) was still 1/x.

Wow, chill the fuck out. You completely missed my point -- that a math major at a school like UVA or UMich will likely get overlooked in favor of McIntyre/Ross kids whereas a math major at a place like Harvard, Yale, Stanford, Princeton, Chicago (even Penn, despite Wharton) would not have this problem.

I majored in (pure) math; don't think I don't have respect for it.

 

undergrad math curriculum at a place like Harvard, Princeton, MIT, Stanford, or Caltech is drastically different than even UPenn or Yale, which is drastically different from a place like UVA. For STEM majors in general, the pedigree of the school makes a huge difference in what you learn. This is for the typical student of course. Because of the internet now, for ambitious learners the sky is the limit at any school.

 

Hey tradingonwheels, thanks for the quick response!

I do know a little bit of programming. I can use R (a statistical processing software) proficiently, MATLAB and Mathematica I have used, I am very good at the type-setting program LaTeX, and I've taken a class centered around python. I've also used C++ code to convert to MATLAB code for certain projects. I'm currently in the process of learning Java, JavaScript, more C++, PHP, Ruby on Rails, and iOS/Swift. So far, none has presented any problems, and it doesn't seem like it would take me very long to pick up a couple of these fairly well.

 

Go questing and pick up a grail maiden wife, Parsifal. I bet you've got some Wagner on your playlist too.

Those who can, do. Those who can't, post threads about how to do it on WSO.
 

Switch to C.A.S. If you like math, then there is no better place to learn it. A lot of CAS kids go to Trading and IBD, and the Math dept is very highly regarded for recruiting. An added reason is that you will stick out once recruiting starts, and you already have your foot in the door.

 

Not my area of expertise but if you're that good in math follow a quant route. Graduate early and go directly into a master/phd program and work as a quant HF guy after that. You'd most likely be wasting your natural math talent in the traditional IB/PE route and should work for a DE Shaw or equivalent. Or a Jane Street. You may be able to not do the grad degree also. I'd rather hear from the quant guys on WSO though. If you're a real math person you'll be intellectually bored formatting ppt's and doing simple excel models in IB.

 
tadtooearly:

I have enough college and AP credits that I can graduate with a degree in applied math and even squeeze in a minor in computer science in a year.

This is impossible, contact an admissions counselor at the university and they will explain it to you. Universities have minimum credit hour requirements and they have credit hour limits on how many they will accept as transfer credit. Once admitted into your program you still need to take two years of upper division classes and satisfy all liberal arts requirements. For MBA programs it's exceedingly rare for admits to have no work experience and two years is generally the minimum.

 

Alright i'll make this short and sweet. I was taught to trade by my dad and various books online. I've been trading on my own at a profit since I was 9 so I have known about finance and industries available to me for a bit. Thanks either way for your highly useful advice. Haven't heard that one before.

 

Why are you in such a hurry to start the rest of your life? You won't have the same kind of opportunities (legal forgiveness) you have while in high school ever again, and if you're as smart as you say you are then it shouldn't be a problem for you to coast through a four-year program with a 3.5+ and still have an enjoyable college experience.

 

You think you can make it into HWS from UIUC at age 19 with no work experience? hahahah Just quit school and start a hedge fund. I'm sure you will have no trouble raising $100mm+ since you have been trading on your own at a profit since you were 9.

 

To take a slightly less hostile tone - good to see you're thinking about this early. But everyone else here is right - you need to do a whole lot more research. No way you're getting into any of those MBA programs you want right after college without any work experience, ESPECIALLY if you're young and finish college early - MBA programs want life and work experience, and the better schools want better experience. Finally, this may be wrong but I'm guessing the schools that allow you to graduate in a year (terrible, terrible, terrible idea by the way - no bank will hire you at 19, for example) aren't the best schools and you probably want to avoid them.

For now, I would focus on increasing your chances of getting into a better UG school as much as possible and revisit this topic from a better college.

 

UIUC has a solid (top 20) math program but an incredible (top 5) CS and Engineering program. They also have a Math/CS major which might be right up your alley and cut it down to a 2-year degree if that is really what you want.

Join ACM as a freshman and get some experience on some projects. Also you will have to begin interviewing for internships in the spring so you can get a FT offer next year. But coming out of UIUC, especially after only two years there, it will be very difficult to land in banking although you could easily land in trading at a Chicago prop shop or in some sort of quant developer role at a bank, or on the west coast at a Google/Palantir/Microsoft/Amazon.

Finally I have no idea where people go around claiming quants don't get social interaction. Quants get lots of social interaction- lots of healthy social interaction where we're interacting for the sake of making friends rather than trying to sell stuff. And you have to be a nice down-to-earth person to really succeed in our field.

It might be possible for you to do UIUC Math/CS (18)-> Google/Palantir (20)-> H/S/W (22-23). If you're really good.

Source: I did my undergrad at UIUC.

 

OP, use this response and don't worry about the general tone here, some good points were made above but people should take a few deep breaths before flaming you.

standard comment telling you to enjoy life in HS because it's good advice

 
IlliniProgrammer:

Finally I have no idea where people go around claiming quants don't get social interaction. Quants get lots of social interaction- lots of healthy social interaction where we're interacting for the sake of making friends rather than trying to sell stuff. And you have to be a nice down-to-earth person to really succeed in our field.

This is definitely something everyone needs to realize. Just because you're a quantitative person in a quant field doesn't mean you're a recluse who looks like an ogre. People want to paint people as black and white: the quant person must be a scrawny dork with pale skin who hasn't seen the sun in a couple of years and an MD in IB as a dashing GQ model who can charm the pants off of any room (although it is difficult to rise to the upper levels of IB without being pretty outgoing, they definitely don't all look like they've stepped off the pages of a fashion mag). Two of my friends-one a quant HF type and the other a programmer-are two of the more outgoing people I know with no social interaction problems and are a couple of the better public speakers I know. And they tend to have much better hours than the bankers and PE guys I know and they don't have to travel constantly, get to see their families more often and have hobbies other than professionally useful golf.

Good post.

 

Everyone is being a dick here, so I'll nicely explain your situation to you:

1) When it comes to recruiting, no one cares what a department is ranked. Go to the best OVERALL school you can get into, because having a top ranked department will be zero help in almost all cases. UIUC is not a target, or even a semi-target from banking, and you will have a very difficult time getting an offer from there. You'll need to be at the top 5% of your class, and get some lucky breaks with internships and such.

2) MBA programs require 4-5 years working experience, with promotions and responsibilities. You can't enter top, or even mediocre, programs directly.

What you need to do, is get your GPA up so you can get into a better school, you still have time to get it up a bit. My best friend in high school had a GPA of 3.0 but a 1500 (out of 1600) SAT...He didn't get into any good schools. Your ACT is good, but you need to fix your GPA

At good programs, there's a maximum amount of credits you can transfer. The quickest anyone EVER graduates in 2.5 years or 3 years. That said, unless you get into a very top school (which you won't with your GPA), you NEED both sophomore and junior year internships to get into front office finance.

Currently you're thinking about going into VC and HBS, but you have an upward battle to get any investment banking job. You need to set your expectations straight.

 

Thanks to all of you who helped me out. The specific advice by OpsDude is really good. My focus for now would be to raise my GPA and get into somewhere a bit better. I still want to get done with undergrad as quickly as possible; it just seems a bit pointless to redo math I've already done. If I end up doing UIUC anyways (money and time being the deciding factors), IlliniProgrammer's advice will be a huge help so thanks to you as well.

 

No one is saying you have to re-do your math classes...pick up another major or something if you want - nothing wrong if graduating in 2 years if you really want to (especially if you plan on doing further study immediately - not an MBA) but as said above, you're currently severely underestimating the qualifications needed to get certain jobs and into top MBA programs, and you're currently pretty seriously overestimating your chances of getting the same.

 

OK - I'm going to assume you CAN graduate in a year (not that I believe it but you claim it, so I'll let it go) from whatever school. You've established that your HS GPA ain't great etc. You've got a few options.

  1. Go to best school you can and graduate in a year (or really early) then go into Masters/PHD program or grad school, get a job, bum around with all the money you've saved and travel/do whatever for some time. Graduating early saves a lot of money and time, that's good. What is not so good is that you'll miss out on very valuable social interaction (ie. meeting all kinds of different people from all over the place and having said people as friends and maybe even a network in the future, who are YOUR age or around it) and trying to take other classes/join clubs or activities that interest you and developing other parts of yourself. People seem to forget this part a lot. It's part of being a well-rounded person and is super valuable at all times in your life (for most people at least), not just socially, but in how you think, how you solve problems etc.

For example, as a pre-req for a class I had to take into to music theory. This meant listening to the professor plunking keys on the piano and determine whether it was like a major or minor 3rd or like a perfect 7th or whatever and then learning how to play some basic piano pieces for the final exam in addition to said listening. I learned very quickly that I was done deaf and hopelessly awful at the piano, but also got to really appreciate those who were good at it or could pick that stuff up quickly in addition to meeting and interacting with people that I would have never otherwise gotten to know. An invaluable experience.

  1. Go to best school you can, crush your grades in the first year or two (avoid graduating) and then transfer to a prestigious school (targets - whatever those are... etc). Then you'll be in the loop of being at a "target" school and recruiters will be there for internships, jobs etc. Your story will be unique and you'll be a quant and so you'll have a solid chance of getting a gig compared to every other boring liberal arts drone (I'm one myself). OR you can then do the Masters/PHD/grad school route, get a job or bum around. In other words you'll be a more "normal" person coming out of college.

I'm not you. I don't know who you are, what you like, and so I can't tell you what to do. I will strongly suggest however that you use your time to really explore your interests or potential interests (whatever they may be, this is not necessarily something that you are good at) and what you like (a lot of that happens in college) and not to rush to get into a full time job. You will have until you retire to work and this period of your life is one where you'll have a lot of flexibility and freedom (not necessarily a ton of choices since you probably won't have money - but that can be worked around).

It it was me, and I did option 1, I would probably travel after I graduated early or do some random stuff for a year.. or 3. Once again you'd learn about yourself, meet tons of people, have a great story etc and then I'd weigh my options on the whole grad school/job thing. If I chose option number 2, maybe I would be more plain vanilla since I would have gone to school for a full 4 years.

Good Luck

I used to do Asia-Pacific PE (kind of like FoF). Now I do something else but happy to try and answer questions on that stuff.
 

Thanks so much! If I do option one, i'd heavily consider traveling; maybe even working overseas. Either way, this summed it up pretty well, so thank you! @TravelBonobo thanks as well that just about concisely said the same. I appreciate it a lot guys!

 

Option 1: Fast Track - Graduate undergrad ASAP with 3.5 - 4.0 GPA - Attend top ranked Masters in whatever field you want - You'll be 20-21 with a Masters degree, that's pretty awesome

Option 2: Long term - Work your ass off right now to get into the absolutely very best school you can get into - Then take your time, get high grades, and do internships during your summer at reputable companies - This will set you up really well and is the more common path

Either way, you're in a great situation. I wish I had the foresight you have when I was in highschool.

I have a tender spot in my heart for cripples, bastards, and broken things
 
Best Response

My advice? Stop trying to cut corners on your education.

No one gives a fuck if you're good at high school math, even if it's advanced math. You're not a prodigy, get over yourself. Your career goals are ostensibly retarded. You obviously have no sense of how VC works, otherwise you would be have the sense to stay the fuck away from arguably the shittiest form of Asset Management.

The thing is, there's more to an education then just learning your required curriculum and getting the fuck out with a piece of paper. There's a whole process of developing critical thinking skills and becoming intellectually self reliant. Obviously, there's a lot of relationship building that goes with that as well.

Your problem is that you're immature. You're too immature to understand that shit takes time, and sometimes you have to wait for things and stop being an entitled puke. VC is an industry that requires a shit load of soft skills (unless your a lawyer drafting term sheets and obviously you don't have the time to get a JD) that come from experience and experience takes time.

If you really want to get into VC then go and start a company or join a start up.

 
OpsDude:
UIUC is a target for tech, quant trading, and the chicago prop shops. In fact at least a few top tier shops recruit at UIUC, MIT, Stanford, but skip Princeton.
FTFY.
No one gives a fuck if you're good at high school math, even if it's advanced math. You're not a prodigy, get over yourself.
I know people who are merely good at math who graduated college at 20 and landed in trading or the quant world or tech. None of them had degrees from target schools. (Before you ask, I graduated at 22 and I am not a prodigy either.)
If you really want to get into VC then go and start a company or join a start up.
Bingo.

Meanwhile, let's be a forum that is hospitable to those who seek help and advice. I'm not a big fan of kids giving up their childhood too soon, but I'm also not a fan of attacking kids who want to start working ASAP. Buyside is a reach, but if you have something to contribute or produce, there is nothing wrong with becoming a developer or even a quant developer at age 20.

But seriously OP should give some thought to an MS or maybe spending a summer traveling the world before starting his 45-year-long career. OP isn't clearing new ground here (though it is the road less traveled), but by becoming an adult early, he's giving up an important part of his life.

OP asked a polite and serious question. He deserves a polite and serious answer. The answer is yes, you can graduate at 20 and work at Google if you really have the credits. But you have to interview two years better than your age, which means OP needs to start getting interview experience like a college sophomore while he is a HS senior.

 

I agree with your sentiment.

But the OP's "go enjoy school crock of crap" comment makes me think he's insanely immature (and no, wanting to finish school early and avoid enjoying the experience does not make you more mature) and clearly has not thought his options through well. I tried to be less hostile than others in my reply but I'm not sure it ended up that way, because the OP's attitude it, to be frank, pretty retarded and quite frustrating. As stated above, there is a whole lot more to this than being good at math - to the tune that although the OP clearly thinks he's cut from a different (superior) cloth, the truth is he can't even get into a top school given his stats. There is a gap between his expectations (HBS etc) and reality that needs to be reconciled and sometimes the harsh truth is the only way to do it. I know this from experience - just a few years ago I was a pretty cocky teenager and thought I was the shit, but now, just a few short years later, I realise I was immature and frankly knew nothing.

 

I cannot wrap my head around graduating in 1 year.... Really? I have never heard of any high school teaching anything about Calc 2 unless you leave to go to a local college for it. The lib art requirements alone are probably a year and possibly more. Definitely check this information out because I know Illinois has many requirements for graduation aside from your desired major. Also, not entirely sure how you would get to 120 credits either because you need special permission to take more than 18 at a lot of schools. 80 credits out of high school? impossible.

Hate to burst your bubble but this isn't the route you want to go. College is the most fun you'll have, enjoy it while it lasts.

 

I don't care what kind of pre-emptive comments you put in the OP, get off this site, it really is not meant for high school students because they straight up have no clue what you are talking about and reading this site is going to (counterintuitively) ruin your career.

Look at any successful VC partner and his track record, at your age he was probably intellectually curious, extremely driven, and free thinking. Went on to college and eventually started his own company, raised several rounds of funding, cashed out - rinse and repeat. High school students on this site are the ones that follow the path that people tell them will lead them to success. IB internship, PE fund, top MBA, then by that time they are 30 years old with little money saved up from the high cost of living in NYC and business school wondering what they should do now.

Get off the internet, go to some high school party where girls will drink 3 wine coolers and make bad decisions, go to college and drink natty light and go to tailgates, get decent grades and give yourself some time to think about what it is that you really enjoy doing and re-evaluate. Your mindset now is nothing but close-minded, short-sighted, immature and everything that is wrong with this forum.

 

What do you mean do applied math and CS minor in a year? I had a dickload of AP credits and the best I could have done was math major in 3 years. All of the schools I was seriously looking at didn't want to take a ton of AP/precollege credit. So I had self studied quite a bit multivariate calculus and basic differential equations (just the basic ODEs with a slight amount of systems of ODEs) during high school because I was bored in my AP calculus class (I had self taught calculus the previous year when I got stuck in precalculus). The point being, most colleges won't let you graduate that quickly because they want you to "have a [insert school name her] degree, not an AP degree."

You can major in math and go into IB, that's all fine and dandy. You'd probably want to be involved in some kind of finance activity and take some finance/accounting classes and learn a lot of the kind of stuff investment bankers do. I majored in math and threw in some chemistry, just 'cause, but I've made sure to remain very involved in finance stuff and know a lot of the technicals. Then again, you'll probably change what you want to do over the course of the 4 years you spend in college. I know I did. I went from wanting to be a PhD level mathematician/physicist to a neurosurgeon to now an investment banker.

 

Pretty sure this is not a troll.

Pretty sure many kids have a loose grip on reality. I sure did when I was 18. I still have a loose grip on reality, LOL.

OP is probably one of the smartest kids at his high school. My guess is that he's seen smart but not brilliant yet, and he's pretty sure he's smarter than just smart. He is probably good enough to land at a Google or Microsoft. That does not mean he will be the smartest person in the room at UIUC let alone a Google or a math PhD program at a Princeton or MIT or Chicago. It's true that OP has not met geniuses yet, and that he probably will if he's truly successful. That does not mean that it's delusional for him to want to graduate in two years or that in his own context, he would be a success if he could land at Twitter at 20.

The Peter Principle/ Dilbert Principle states that you'll start running into people who are smarter than you. This happened to me rarely in high school, occasionally at UIUC, more often in analytics, and incredibly often (IE 2/3 of the people I met) in grad school. OP hasn't had this experience yet. I suspect he'll have it at UIUC. I don't think UIUC is a bad place for him to wind up, especially if he is paying in-state tuition, doing a Math, CS, or Engineering major, and is willing to consider tech or Chicago prop trading. If OP wants banking, then he needs to get into NYU, Duke, or Cornell.

Back to my rusty honda.

 

couple casual observations

  1. no reason to accelerate through your college years: seriously, you have more opportunities to get internships & valuable experiences, college is worth so much more than education. plus, the amount of times you change your mind is greatest between the ages of 18-25.

  2. your GPA indicates a lack of work effort: there, I said it. I'm not saying you're lazy, you're clearly intelligent, but I'd imagine you have all 4s and 5s on AP exams which means there's a disconnect between your level of understanding and your work effort. I'd imagine if your grades were 100% test based you'd have straight A's, but because there's homework involved, that's why your GPA is where it is. Solution: work harder these next couple of years to get that GPA up.

  3. why banking? why VC? why trading? I didn't read the entire thread, just skimmed, but work on why you want what you're saying you want. hint: college internships are a great way to figure this out. if you rush through college, you might graduate with no direction.

  4. celebrating your 21st birthday with college friends will be way better than with coworkers.

 
thebrofessor:

4. celebrating your 21st birthday with college friends will be way better than with coworkers.

That honestly sounds like a horrible horrible harrowing cold experience.

This to all my hatin' folks seeing me getting guac right now..
 

You're either too confident or just don't know how any of this works. Since you're very young, we're going to assume it's the latter.

Target schools (aka "elite" colleges) generally don't give crap for AP credits. I did the International Baccalaureate program throughout high school.

Being in this program meant that I:

  1. worked my ass off for a couple years
  2. got into my top choice target school
  3. sat back and gave zero shits for my IB college credit tests at the end of senior year

Why step 3? The most that my college offered would be ONE credit for a perfect score on the chemistry test. Nothing else for my IB/AP credits. Aka I would get to skip one easy course that would just boost my GPA if I chose to take anyway.

You're still a junior. You have a little bit of time to improve your GPA. Get your shit together and pull a 4.0 UW in the 3 semesters you have left before college apps.

You're a white male (gonna guess middle class) with a low GPA and fine test score. Unless you're a rowing god or an Ivy legacy, aim for schools that are anywhere within 30-50 on USNWR (some being semi-targets).

Enjoy college. Major in Finance/Econ. Network. Intern. See what happens.

Also, VC? How could you know that you want to jump into VC as a kid in high school? You'll learn about different industries in college. Don't say you're set on anything now unless you want people rolling their eyes at you.

 

I was pretty much the same as you in high school, except in terms of English rather than math. I ran train on everyone in terms of writing, wrecked standardized tests, and had many short story publications in widely known papers. Basically, I convinced myself that I was a super genius who was going to be the next Dan Brown and I didn't need to go to college.

Well my parents made me go to college (thankfully) at a target and now I'm in banking.

Moral of the story: Go to college and take the time to explore. You might surprise yourself and suddenly decide to be the author who I never was.

 
Golden Valley:

I was pretty much the same as you in high school, except in terms of English rather than math. I ran train on everyone in terms of writing, wrecked standardized tests, and had many short story publications in widely known papers. Basically, I convinced myself that I was a super genius who was going to be the next Dan Brown and I didn't need to go to college.

Well my parents made me go to college (thankfully) at a target and now I'm in banking.

Moral of the story: Go to college and take the time to explore. You might surprise yourself and suddenly decide to be the author who I never was.

Lol. True. I was also an English/social science genius but ended up in finance. There just wasn't any money in being a writer, philosopher or poli sci person and I ended up figuring out that was important to me.

Everyone's being a little too harsh on the OP. He's in high school and asking advice. He may sound cocky but when I was 17, hell even 22, I was going to conquer the world. I just didn't have an Internet forum to tell the world. OP, do what you want but just keep your options open. Find a field you like and are good at and enjoy it. College is a great place to do so. You're on your own for the first time with (hopefully, I didn't have one) a bit of a safety net.

Another cliche, but money isn't, or doesn't have to be, everything. This may come as a shock to some but being happy isn't about prestige, money or sounding cool at thanksgiving dinner, it's about finding the right partner, having kids (if that's your bag, it's not everyone's and god bless the giant spaghetti monster if it's not), enriching yourself through knowledge, travel, inventing the next spork, or whatever, but it doesn't come from prestige or money, it comes from what you enjoy. Maybe being a BSD is what makes you happy though. I'm not advocating majoring in women's studies (especially if you're a dude) but if you're intelligent you can make your way in the world. I remember a guy I graduated HS with who had a perfect SAT score (then it was 1600...) and is absolutely brilliant, went to Harvard on a near full ride and did two of the hardest majors to double in purely for the challenge (and now a Stanford phd) told me while we were still in school that he'd always be able to feed himself and his family but he wanted to do what made him happy. He's the extreme example but he's truly happy. I thinks he's a public health prof who figures out how to feed developing country kids, but he's tenured at Stanford. He makes good but not great money. But he's truly happy. Another less extreme example is a couple that we're friends with who I consider just as happy are both teachers. And he was a top school finance guy who started in IB and hated his existence. After two years he dropped the rat race and wanted to teach kids in Mystic. Happy as a peach, probably far more than I am and I'm somewhat successful. Not that I don't enjoy what I do (I truly do) but everyone needs to get off the high horse that money and prestige is what makes you happy. I have both but I'm always a minute away from buying a bar on the beach and saying screw it. And I could have figured out how to do that 20 years ago, as could anyone with an IQ greater than 110.

 

I really don't think you'd be leveraging your strengths optimally in IB. It sounds like you're very quick at learning math and have figured out a way to get through college quickly. Neither of these are actually all THAT important for getting into IB. This isn't to say that they're not strengths, they are and there's areas where they're in high demand. I'd suggest you use your strengths, graduate early from undergrad and then go somewhere that will be impressed by that. This will most likely be tech companies or PhD programs. I'm not sure why you think you want to do finance and in particular VC so badly but if you still want to do VC you can do it after you've proven that you can lead a start up (plenty of in tech, plenty get started in grad school) to success. Alternatively a PhD in Quant Econ/Finance/Financial Engineering would probably land you somewhere good but I haven't looked into those programs much.

If you're really hell-bent on getting into business school out of undergrad Harvard does have a 2+2 program that you should look into, but I'd imagine that you'd need to go for at least 3 undergrad years just to develop strong relations with professors and bosses so that you could have meaningful working experiences and someone who would write about them for you.

 

I highly discourage you from graduating in one year and then applying for an MBA. If classes in college are easy or can be skipped, use the extra time to push yourself academically (by taking phd courses if you want) or socially.

I also highly encourage you to focus on mastering the fundamentals. You might have taken some AP classes and done well, but taking an extra few years to really master the key ideas and see them applied in different contexts is not a waste of time at all.

Internships are also very valuable and a good use of college time. You don't want to throw that opportunity away. Once you start working, it becomes much harder to change careers while in college you can try different industries each summer.

 

No offense OP, but you sound pretty clueless. If you go to a a decently quanty school I think you'll probably realize pretty quickly that you're not that great at math. Especially if you're barely getting over a 3.0 in high school.

The biggest thing you should be focusing on now is killing it in high school so you can get into a good college. From there spend your full four years working hard, but keep in mind your gameplan. Are you still excelling in math in college? Fantastic, look at 2 + 2 programs for B school and keep those in mind. Do you still want to do banking? Start looking for internships after Freshman year to work in IB.

Four years at a top college would do you good because it would help you to realize how unspecial you are. People that succeed in this industry are not only incredibly bright, but also very hardworking. You might be smart, but so is everyone so its the ones that work hard who succeed.

You're trying to conquer the world at 17 and realistically if your final goal is MBA --> VC its going to take time. The few that are incredibly precocious are able to get into B school early and then PE/VC quickly, but they have much stronger backgrounds then you do. The one kid I knew who did it , went to an elite boarding school and was valedictorian, went to an IVY, did IB after his freshman year, BB IB after his Sophomore, Infrastructure PE at a BB after his junior, and is now at a top PE firm. He graduated with honors in a quant major and I'm sure will end up at HSW B school in a few years, unless he decides not to go.

Now compare yourself to that guy... taking AB Calc at a public school in the midwest and getting an A- doesn't as hot huh. Anyways not trying to be a dick, but want to let you know that you have years of hard work ahead of you before you can really consider HBS and VC. Keep it in the back of your mind for now and focus on the immediate goals of getting the GPA up and getting into a good school.

 

I think a lot of people here are giving the original poster too much shit for a kid in high school, but he sounds out of touch and pretty annoying. IlliniProgrammer and a few others are giving great advice. I think the quote below from IP wins the thread actually.

IlliniProgrammer:
Pretty sure many kids have a loose grip on reality. I sure did when I was 18. I still have a loose grip on reality, LOL.

OP is probably one of the smartest kids at his high school. My guess is that he's seen smart but not brilliant yet, and he's pretty sure he's smarter than just smart. He is probably good enough to land at a Google or Microsoft. That does not mean he will be the smartest person in the room at UIUC let alone a Google or a math PhD program at a Princeton or MIT or Chicago. It's true that OP has not met geniuses yet, and that he probably will if he's truly successful. That does not mean that it's delusional for him to want to graduate in two years or that in his own context, he would be a success if he could land at Twitter at 20.

The Peter Principle/ Dilbert Principle states that you'll start running into people who are smarter than you. This happened to me rarely in high school, occasionally at UIUC, more often in analytics, and incredibly often (IE 2/3 of the people I met) in grad school. OP hasn't had this experience yet. I suspect he'll have it at UIUC. I don't think UIUC is a bad place for him to wind up, especially if he is paying in-state tuition, doing a Math, CS, or Engineering major, and is willing to consider tech or Chicago prop trading. If OP wants banking, then he needs to get into NYU, Duke, or Cornell.

All I can say to the original poster is that I believe you are one of the smartest people at your high school and that it's a shame you haven't worked harder to have a higher GPA. I don't believe that in any way shape or form translates to having a realistic shot at getting a job you say you want in finance by 20.

I'm not even sure that if you went to university you would still want that job. You might enjoy GOOG , MSFT or being a professor a lot more. I probably wouldn't have listened to this advice at your age, but I think you need to go to college and stay for long enough to grow up a bit. As things stand now, I suspect people would get fed up with you pretty fast in an interview. I honestly believe you have a better chance of founding the next Uber or Facebook than executing on a plan to graduate from college in 1 year and going to H/S/W.

There are people who get offers at prop shops or hedge funds for basically being freaky geniuses. Being the smartest guy at almost any high school I can think of isn't a good way to tell if you're that smart (nor are national tests other than maybe the math olympiad or AMC). If you can do something that is legitimately uniquely impressive (like getting a good score on the Putnam exam), you might be as smart as you seem to think you are.

I know nothing about UIUC, but IP does. Listen to him.

Source: going to a highly competitive high school, elite university (where I majored in math) and working on the buy side at a hedge fund for 4 years and counting.

 

Oh, and one more thing: I know a guy who went from high school more or less directly to a good med school (graduated at 19 or 20 from college). It never seemed to me like that was a particularly great choice on his part and I actually think that being a in med school would work better than trying to work in finance at 19 or 20.

 

At the end of the day nobody cares how smart you are if you can't show them. Your resume will get 10 seconds of attention. Rushing a decent program (because you have already indicated that you lacked the long term discipline required to get into somewhere better) is not going to impress anyone in the professional world any more than your AP credits did the admissions people. You are not special. Once you embrace that you can start taking steps in the right direction instead of attempting a sprint in a random direction.

 

Congrats on putting yourself into such a great position. I wish I had half of the drive and vision you do when I was your age.

As a current UIUC student I can perhaps offer you a different perspective. First, UIUC is a semi-target for IB. I have a few friends who are in the Investment Banking Academy and have completed internships at reputable firms and are headed to Chicago/NYC for IB. As finance/accounting/econ majors they put the necessary work in undergrad and made it to IB. I know of a number CS/CE type majors that had a much easier time achieving this as well. Furthermore, as @IlliniProgrammer mentioned, UIUC is among the the creme de la creme of CS. We have an amazing cadre of CS alumni who are from here as well. You mentioned you are interested in VC? Marc Andreessen of Andreessen-Horowitz did his undergrad in CS here and his company recruits here. Other notable firms that I know of that recruit on campus are Bain, McKinsey, Google, Amazon, etc...

In my opinion, go to UIUC, take ~2 years to do your undergrad in CS+Math, 1-2 years to do a masters in something. During the summers take advantage of the plethora of opportunities F500 companies and startups offer at Research Park (worth a look) or even better work at the Blue Water's computing facility (definitely worth checking out). Finally, take advantage of amazing social life as well as there is plenty to learn outside the classroom.

PM me if you have any questions. Best of luck.

 

I graduated in 2 years from a top 40 school - it isn't worth it if your path is in finance. Not even a discussion really.

Negatives that will occur:

1) The most important aspect of your transcript (your GPA) will likely suffer (greater course load, less context for how the system works etc) . The few other people I've met that went down a similar path have corroborated my thought that, while we graduated in the 3.6-3.9 range, we could have easily gotten 4.0's otherwise. This will matter more than you think.

2) You will have difficulty getting jobs. Between your lack of (real) work experience, the common assumption that you went to a shitty school for two years and transferred (and then omitted it from your resume), and the difficulty discussing your 'accelerated' path without coming off as a dick will all work against you.

3) The minute you accept a job, it becomes infinitely more important than anything you did in school. Thus, if the factors below force you to accept a shitty job, your ability to shake that off will be significant.

4) Finally, you will miss out on a social aspect of life that is meaningful for most people. My situation mostly worked out in that regard, the few others I know that graduated early had a rough time of it.

All that said, I did get into banking and I think things worked out for me, so you might be fine but, please, understand:

If you graduate at 19/20, you are unnecessarily making things harder on yourself for effectively no benefit (ignoring the $20K in tuition you might pay as that is not meaningful in the long run).

Life's is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.
 

Don't apply to B-school 1 year out of school, you'll probably hate it. majoring in CS is great b/c you can leverage it and go PM down the road and I really think great VCs have really good product/operating experience. Don't rush experience, just try to get the best experiences.

Also if you go to UI, check out jobstart.co a buddy of mine created it it's amazing.

 

Steady young prodigy. You have your whole life ahead of you. If your estimates are indeed applicable, go through undergrad for three years for CS/Math then graduate. That's just about enough time to get a feel for the entire "college-life" thing - being independent, banging college chicks, 'experimenting' with 'stuff' - while finding out what really matters to you in the long run..who knows, you could forgo Banking and opt to start your own Tech Company - at which point you'll be the one being fetched by VCs.

MBA/MS right after undergrad is not advisable. Unless you project going to "Never heard off Undergrad program" which IB recruiters will know just about as much of as the black hole. Even from a non-target but decent enough school, all you need to do is apply yourself with good grades and network your way into an MM IB role.You just have to get that experience in.

"I hope and pray I can get a job in IB" - don't set all your sights on one ambition; esp. one like this. Life in IB isn't all its hyped up to be. Find something that gives you a genuine sense of satisfaction and happiness in life. But if topics like DCFs, re-structuring analysis, and whatnot float your boat, then by all means go for it!

 
dartzrip:

How does nobody notice that this guy is a troll at all?
He could take every AP and get a 5 on all of them, it still wouldn't be possible to graduate in a year.

OP is implying that he took a ton of college courses while he was in high school, which I can believe.

However, that does not in any way, shape, or form indicate that you're "good at math". Besides, half of the "target" schools don't even accept AP credit. My alma mater laughed at all my 5's... I only got "general elective" credit for my 5's in AP English, and no credit at all for the rest because they're complete jokes. "Good at math" for target colleges = USAMO winners, lol.

Currently: future neurologist, current psychotherapist Previously: investor relations (top consulting firm), M&A consulting (Big 4), M&A banking (MM)
 

The only benefit of a math major if you are interested in M/A is that if you maintain a decent to high gpa in math people will think you are smarter than a person with the same gpa in finance. but really you should just major in something (ideally at least somewhat technical) that you can do very well in (which is generally correlated with liking the subject matter) so that you can get as high of a gpa as you can.

 

Math is a favorable major no matter where you want to go in finance - only issue is that you might be bored with M&A.

What I always stress in 'what should I major in' posts is that your major is a screening mechanism and the substance of what you study will have little if any connection to your job - a math major will show you're a smart guy, but you won't be doing calculus, diff eqs, statistics, or proofs in M&A, hence my boredom caveat.

 

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