Hi All,
Pretty much as the title suggests, I’m looking to attend a top 15 MBA program in the next two years in order to make the jump from IT Consulting to IB. Before I get bashed, yes, I have read prior threads (and elsewhere - Poets and Quants, M&I, etc.) on this topic and I’m aware that some form of this topic is probably created on a daily basis. Nonetheless, I wanted to create this thread since my scenario is a little different, and I’d like to cover all my bases and have input from folks who’ve gone through MBA OCR to point out any overly ambitious assumptions I am making in deciding whether an MBA is a good fit or not.
With that being said, here’s a brief outline of my background:
1. International student that attended a small private liberal arts school (very non-target for finance)
2. Graduated first in my class
3. Student-athlete
4. Short stint in finance department as an intern at a commercial bank (5 months)
5. Have been working full time in IT Consulting for 2 years (small, private company - very unknown)
6. Have lived all over the world due to father’s old job (been to over 30 countries)
7. Trilingual
8. Visa was an issue in the past (F1 -> H1B), hoping to have all that sorted out prior to commencing MBA
In my mind, I see myself being able to make the jump by attending a top program - networking and hustling will be a major contributing piece.
I’d like some folks who’ve been through the MBA -> IB career switch process to shed some light as to how feasible making the switch to IB is, given a similar/not so "strong" background. I’m targeting both Columbia and NYU, since I’m close to NY - not interested in other programs as I do want to stay in NY. What I don’t want to happen is to risk time + money attending an MBA program, only to have to compete against “stronger” backgrounds, e.g. people who might’ve done MBB/Tier 2/ Tier 3 Consulting, BB/EB etc., and ultimately strike out.
Obviously, there will be competition, I’m not overly concerned about having to compete against other folks. However, I’d like to get a better picture on how intense that competition will be. E.g: 50 spots across all BB’s, EB’s and other lower tiered banks with 2,000+ candidates gunning for those spots vs. more like 300 spots across all banks but less candidates gunning for those spots. Does my poor work experience hurt me? I certainly think it does, the only positive I see is that we do some interesting work (lots of work with technology such as RPA, ML, etc.) and thus can spin it very well (and I have a solid “excuse” as to why I ended up there).
Any insight would be appreciated.
Cheers
you'll be fine if you can get into a T15 MBA. nobody with MBB experience will be recruiting for IB.
Thanks for the comment Frank Slaughtery. I guess what I am trying to understand is, does prior work experience overly matter for internship and full-time recruiting coming out of a top program? I think my WE is the weakest part of my whole profile, just not sure how much of a weight to give it?
Work experience hardly matters at all for MBA recruiting into IB. I went through the process at one of the most IB-heavy business schools (think Wharton/Booth/Columbia) and backgrounds going into IB were super diverse. Success was almost 100% dependent on how well-prepared the student was for the very specific blueprint of IB recruiting. That means (i) can you do a little networking and (ii) can you develop your technicals enough to combine it with qualitative insights so you can have some interesting things to say about business and markets.
That was it. That's the test. IB to me really stood out among MBA professions for having a very specific blueprint to follow and not caring about anything else. Which I mostly view as a good thing. It felt very meritocratic IMHO. The banks start showing up on campus, figuring out who really wants to do IB based on how well they've followed the blueprint, and through that process they slowly thin the herd through the winter and leading into interviews.
In my class, the folks who "got it" from day 1 had a relatively easy time. They'd be able to show up to events, ask a few questions, network in a relaxed way, and just go through the motions.
I was in the second group . . the guys who kind of got it but took a little extra time to get it. That weeded me out from a few firms early on, but most of the firms were relaxed enough to not make super-early cuts and this gave me time to work on my networking & biz convo game so I could catch up and still make a good number of closed lists. The difference between my group and the first group was that my group had more stress down the stretch as we were playing catch up.
Then there was the third group: people who took too long to get with the program and were just starting to figure things out when invite-only events started happening, and they missed the boat. Can't make closed list without making the invite-only events, so they got very few interviews.
Point is: the biggest predictor of success wasn't background, it was which group are you in. Each group had all kinds of different backgrounds.
Based on your post it seems you're already very committed to IB and ready to hustle, which means you should easily be in that first group and be fine. Biggest risk for you then, is overdoing it: don't be the weird guy who gets into the weeds on technicals or networks too aggressively. Since you're starting out ahead, you can be the normal relaxed guy who knows his shit which is exactly the profile that does best.
I don't know how different the process is at a lower T15 vs. an MBA business schools">M7 but I imagine the playbook is the same, just a bit tougher because its a slightly lower tier.
Thanks for the comprehensive info! Curious to see whether you could expand on the "blueprint" you mention. What are some of the things one can do prior to commencing BSchool perhaps make recruiting easier? Is it worth it to start reaching out to people and connecting with them, or is that generally a bad idea? Also a little confused by Group 1 and 2 you mentioned - what constitutes "getting it" vs. taking a while to "get it?"
Thanks again!
By getting it, I mean, how do you approach recruiting. The schools have all these networking events but networking at an event isn't a very logical process when you think about it.
Think about why networking is supposed to matter in life broadly (not in IB, just anywhere). The idea is that when you need something (a job for example) you have a network of people who already know you independently of this need. So you go out looking for a job, and because these people already know and trust you, they hook you up. They push for you, they tell you about jobs that might not even be open yet.
The point is, they help you because they're your friends from before. They're not helping you because they met you when you wanted a job.
MBA networking is a lot less natural to me because you're meeting people in October who know that you want a job in January, just 3 months later. So the schools are all like "look at us, we're providing you with so many great networking opportunities!" but is that really what's going on? I don't think so. I think if its a "networking opportunity" where every damn person there is a job candidate going for the same job, that sounds a lot more like a tournament or competition to me. It sure as fuck aint networking.
So to me at least, I was confused when I got there. That's what I mean by "not getting it." Becuase everyone else seemed to think this system makes total sense . . you just go network at these events, and then you get an interview, and then you get a job. But to me that's illogical because everyone is doing the exact same networking at the event . . hell they're even doing it together standing right next to each other as they form a circle around bankers. So how can you out-network your classmates and if there's no way to do that, WTF is the point of being there?
So anyway, I was among the students who couldn't make sense of this model. I'd show up to the events but didn't have any idea of what to do other than go through the motions.
The only way most people could think of to get ahead was to network beyond the events . . reach out to bankers for coffee and all that shit. I won't call this a bad idea but thinking big picture, how much benefit can it really have? I mean, the banker knows you just want a job so it's not going to be a natural relationship-building plus if your eagnerness ever comes off as annoying or try-hard, you've made it easy for the bank to cut you (and they need to make cuts somehow). So networking seemed like a lot of work in exchange for minor benefit and some added risk to boot.
So to sum up the challenges: (i) what is the purpose of networking, (ii) how do you achieve that purpose without excessive effort and (iii) how do you do it with minimal risk.
And the answers in my opinion:
The purpose of IB MBA networking is not what most people think. It's not to build a bigger better network. It's mostly to weed out those who aren't fully committed to IB, and on a smaller level its to weed out those who are a poor fit (very socially awkward, or very weak in conversation, or whatever). It's primarily the first thing, so that means its more important to just show up than to do anything particularly impressive. The banks get comfortable with you over time because you kept showing up to events and acting normal.
How do you achieve this without killing your life. Well if showing up is most of the game but you also want that slight extra edge to make sure you're doing enough, then the best approach is to be well-read on business topics so you can ask interesting questions at the events without looking like a hardo. They don't have to be great questions at all. Just genuine ones. At the events most of your classmates will ask lame, boring questions that are safe to ask but nobody cares about the answer to ("tell us more about being and industry vs product banker" and shit like that). And a few of your classmates will take the opposite approach and try to ask some badass question, which will just come off as desperate and insecure. You want to be the guy in the middle of that spectrum who can confidently ask a natural question, and the best way to do that is to be sharp on what's going on in the world.
So pick a few sources you like, which could be anything . . podcasts, blogs, even the good old WSJ. It really doesn't matter, just make sure its something you'll actually consume. And then go consume it. The hardest thing about this is, people give up because they're not getting daily feedback. It's not like exercising where you can step on a scale every day and see your results improving. It takes faith . . you're reading now so that you're more prepared for a job in a year from now. But this is the most high value add activity.
If you need more instant feedback, then read up for a few months and then go grab coffee with someone in the industry and chat about business. Fed, China, deals, tech, , etc. You'll see how much easier the convos are and that will give you the faith to invest further.
Reaching out to people early is helpful if its being done for that purpose . . to have a quality conversation that's fun for them too. If it's instead being done to check a box where the pre-MBA student feels this is another chore he needs to do, I don't think that's a good use of time at all. Very time consuming, limited reward, some risk, and no fun for anyone.
Sorry for the rambling, this question brings out a lot of random thoughts. Happy to answer others that come up
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