MBA is useless.
I'm current a Business Analyst-level employee at one of MBB wrapping up my first year, which means it's about the time to start thinking about MBA apps. I can't shake the nagging feeling that it's not really worth it. Can someone tell me if my reasoning here makes sense?
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With the typical two-year sponsorship package, between lost wages and lack of career advancement during the MBA, I'd be out about $150k by 2017 (even after valuing the MBA at about $180k), the first point at which I could conceivably leave the company following the sponsorship. The cumulative difference continues to grow year after year as well.
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On paper, the company I work for doesn't require a MBA to advance. Most people get one, but I've heard of people reaching Partner straight from BA without stopping. If I don't stay with this company, I would join or found a startup (tech) which also doesn't require a MBA. My interest in shifting to PE or finance is minimal as well.
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Getting sponsored for the MBA would force me to stick around until 2017, which is too restrictive for my tastes, and going without a sponsorship doesn't seem to make sense in a situation where it's probably available.
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After researching top MBA program websites, I've discovered a lot of the topics they teach have already been covered at work, including the softer touchy-feely leadership stuff. The only classes I'd like to take are language or programming courses; the business classes might be somewhat useful but not very much relative to what I've already learned (and will learn in the future) at work. Unfortunately, most schools seemed pretty light on electives, especially the first year.
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My network could always get better, but I already feel that I have a reasonably good network already between my undergrad (HYPS) and my job.
The biggest arguments I've heard from work in favor of the MBA is that it's a fun experience, a lax environment to age two years in before you start grinding again, a vehicle to build a strong network, and a good place to meet girls (skeptical about this one). These points are somewhat tempting but just seem too airy to me to justify spending two years. The ONLY point I find very compelling (that I've heard so far) is that b-school is free time to really focus on starting up a company.
What do you all think? Thanks in advance.
First, what do you mean by a "business-level analyst employee?" Are you an actual consultant or in a side group like mckinsey's BTO, risk practice, etc.? Second, you're right that MBB doesn't technically require one, but it's VERY difficult to continue getting promoted without one. From talking to my good friend at mckinsey, he only knows 1 person who managed to advance to a post-mba role without an mba. Unless you're an absolute superstar, you will probably need to get one.
Third, you're right that a lot of the MBA courses are "touchy-feely." But your flexibility will vary drastically depending where you go. At HBS the entire first-year is required courses while at Booth you have a very flexible curriculum and can take tons of hardcore quant courses if you want.
Fourth, the value of an MBA is a combination of the name brand, networking, meeting like-minded accomplished people, and getting exposure to companies/industires that you otherwise may not have considered. An honest debate can be had about whether or not this is worth the financial sacrifices. But I still dont know a single M7 student or alum who has regretted going there. Ultimately it will help you out in the long run, even though it may seem painful initially to take out loans for 2 years.
Good luck.
If you want to do the start up thing, go ahead and skip the MBA... but the part that you will have to deal with mentally, emotionally and socially won't be launching your start up or gaining traction, I suppose you're intelligent enough to be cognisant of that... The tough part will be when you're done with the start up route and are trying to get a real job again and are 2-4 years below the "level" you would have been had you stayed in the corporate world (MBA or otherwise). Considering your comment about lack of career advancement during your MBA, I think you need to be prepared for the lack of advancement during your start up years and if/when your start up ends up not being the next google/facebook/amazon.com...
No one apart from you cares about your achievement unless it means money in their pocket. The corporate world only cares about what you can do for them immediately and affiliations. That's it.
MBA's are primarily important because they are tools of affiliation. That you went to the right school, have met the right people/network and have been socialised for the corporate world. You have an HYPS and MBB background so you have most of the long-term affiliation part down, although in the short term an MBA could accelerate your career a bit and give you some career options / a two year paid holiday.
If you do go for an MBA, make sure you have fun. It's the whole point of the thing.
Thanks Relinquis and Brady.
@Brady4MVP: I am on the consulting staff.
@Relinquis: I definitely plan to have fun! (If I go). I just don't want to go because of that.
Your primary goal of going to b-school should always be professional. But the social aspects are quite important as well and add to the rich tapestry of the MBA experience. Pretty confident that you will have the most enjoyable 2 years of your life if you go to b-school.
No problem. Good luck.
congratulations you work at BCG
and congratulations you told yourself five reasons you dont personally need an MBA, so dont do it. doesnt make it useless for everyone else.
NPV calculations can be misleading here, and generally should not be the basis for making major life decisions. I won't disagree that for some people (perhaps many people), getting the MBA is a negative NPV decision. However, if you're on track to make ~$1 million a year within 7-10 years of getting a top MBA (which would roughly be true for consulting, certainly banking, IM, etc.), does it really matter whether you left $150k on the table?
I think more relevant questions are things like: Do I like being a student? Am I looking to transform my career by switching industries or gaining some skills that I'm unlikely to learn on the job? Am I worried that my career might stall in a couple years if I don't pursue an advanced degree (need not be MBA)? Do I want to live in a different city/ or meet new ppl., 95% of which will be awesome?
If you can answer most of those 'no', then it probably doesn't make sense for you.
Great post. I agree almost entirely with what you said here. I think a lot of people underestimate the value of meeting new people, learning from them, and going through an intesne period of personal enrichment and excitement.
@shorttheworld I agree the MBA has value for a lot of people. I only made the title provocative because the old version wasn't getting responses. It worked btw.
Revolver Ocelot,
I was in a similar situation. I was gonna be promoted to senior manager in advisory at a big 4. I was 3 years away from being partner. However, I decided to do an MBA. The thing is that for me, the cost of regretting doing the MBA is less than the cost of regretting not doing it.
The MBA gives you a sort of freedom no other degree does. If 5 years from now you want to change careers, or simply want to move to Vietnam and work there, a top mba will improve your chances of achieving that. Also, the network is Global which will help you in the long term. When you reach senior roles YOU ALWAYS NEED high quality contacts. The more the better. I speak from experience.
In your particular case, the MBA provides the perfect environment for entrepreneurship. Also, it will increase your network. You cant compare a college network to an MBA's network. MBAs always get out of their way to help you, college alumni dont. And last, the MBA will give you a certain credibility at the moment you fund your start-up. Wouldn't you trust more to invest in someone who has a Top-MBA than someone who doesn't?.
Anyways, how old are you? You might not have to take a decision now.
The classic answer: "It depends." On experience, what you want to do, if you work in a "clubby" industry and on other elements of your life, such as personal responsibility. Am I learning a lot? No. Am I buying a Rolodex? Yes. Would I do it again? Absolutely. (Full disclosure: Entering second year at HBS.)
Feel free to PM me on any and all of the above.
You think the case studies at HBS aren't that useful for learning? I've heard mixed reviews about it from people.
Glad to hear that you're enjoying b-schoool. I have yet to meet a single person who has regretted going to a top mba program while i know lots of people who have regretted going to top med, law, phd, and undergrad.
Case studies are only as good as the professors that teach them. I had a strategy professor who was brilliant with dissecting case studies and getting to the underlying issues. One of my favorite classes. Other professors use it as a springboard to ask basic, boring questions.
I also had a professor whose "cases" solely consisted of companies 10-Ks that we analyzed, and that was one of the most instructive classes I've ever had, in any of my degrees.
What about 1 year programs....INSEAD, LBS, Said, Judge, Kellog, etc
It might not be for you, but one thing I haven't seen mentioned here is the MBA is a really useful tool for switching industries or functions (and can actually provide academic value, too, haha). I was working in construction management and wanted to get into development, but didn't have any finance knowledge. The MBA provided both the finance classes and the "transition opportunity" that let me get a job in development. People who get the MBA for the network (and I met a few at my program) are a waste of a spot since there are plenty of people who could genuinely use it to advance their career (like myself), and instead they spent $180k on something a few industry group memberships and networking events could have accomplished.
You sound like you're not looking to transition careers, and already have a brand name that provides your career with optionality and downside protection, so that makes sense.
I didn't end up getting mine because I think the cost has become insane, and the best paying emerging industries (i.e. tech) frankly don't care about it.
The single best reason for you to go (and the reason I weighed going) is what I regularly heard from folks in their 50s who had done their M7 MBAs:
a) You are probably going to be really successful regardless. In your 50s, if you are successful no one benchmarks based off net worth, etc - it's with family, friends, etc. So thinking in terms of NPV seems very important now but less important later. The marginal utillity of $ at your level of projected earning and success isn't really big
b) Our generation will likely work until they're 60-70. Both because our lifespans are increasing, but culturally speaking work is a much bigger part of our collective psyche. Successful businessmen in their 60s may retire from their MD positions, but instead, sit on boards, dedicate themselves to startups, etc. And at 60 it's nice to look back (with friends you made in grad school) and have that two year break.
This really is likely the last appropriate, 2-year long career break to take until you're retired/semi-retired etc.
Now, I decided instead to stay in my path and save like a maniac so I could afford myself a shot at financial freedom before 40, and no one in my industry really cares about an MBA, but my recommendation is if you can afford it without taking on debt, the MBA is really fun and you probably won't regret it.
The only real reason to get it in your case is if you want a vacation. If you care more about making money it doesn't make any sense.
At a non-HSW M7 right now and there are very few people who did MBB before. Those who did are all sponsored.
The one thing that baffles is me people who do business undergrads from a top b school and then 3-5 years later go to an M7 MBA school. Like what in the actual fuck r u doing other than an extended vacation? My gf literally is doing her MBA at one of the M7 right now. I see her day to day core-class course load. it's a fucking repeat of what you learn in undergrad b school
Unpopular take but you won't see any MBA kids saying their mba was sht because why would you in your right mind spend 200 grand on somethign and then shit on it?
I got my MBA with people that shit on it while enrolled, blew my mind. Why bother spending all the money just for the rubber stamp and a network? I went because I did engineering undergrad and worked construction, I had no path to more finance dependent work like development since I had no financial knowledge. But I went to school with people who were recruiting in the same industry they were already working in, there was zero value add except a few lines they could add to their resume.
And you're discounting the benefit of switching careers, if you did business/finance undergrad and ended up in finance and want to switch to tech it can be a lot easier with the MBA, even if some of the core classes are redundant. I already had good knowledge of statistics from undergrad, but there were other subjects I didn't know. The MBA acts as a reset in terms of job history, if you're trying to make the transition without one I think you'll have a harder time trying to explain why you deserve the job since you have no experience in the field.
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