MBA While Working?

Columbia? Seriously though, if you are going to do an MBA do it full-time. Part-time MBAs are not well regarded.

I'm with ideating. If you are pursuing a career in finance, you can afford the student loans to go full time. On the other hand, you won't be able to get into any top full-time programs with no experience. If I were you I would focus my efforts on getting moved over to IBD at your current bank or possibly another bank (maybe a boutique?). If that doesn't work, just work your ass off in your current job, take the time to study hard and blow out the GMAT, develop well rounded extracurricular activities (learn an instrument, play a sport, run a marathon, do community service, whatever), and apply to the top programs in a few years. The earlier you start strategizing, the better your chances will be.

If you are set on part time, I believe Stern is the only T10 (if you even count it as T10) school with a part-time program, and even there I'm not sure what the IB career prospects are like. Based on their website I don't think Yale SOM has a part-time program (EMBA is different, and requires significant work experience). Columbia definitely does not.

"When I get sad, I stop being sad and be awesome instead."

As ideating said, generally not well regarded and it's actually pretty tough to pull off even while working only 60 hours a week. You will save some money in the short-term by doing that, but in the long-term if you really want to do finance/banking it's better just to do a real MBA.

One last thought: You really should talk to HR or whoever is in charge of this program and find out exactly what kind of career path you can expect from them post-MBA. They may guarantee you an associate position, or they may tell you that there's no shot in hell of getting into IBD with a part-time MBA. Either way, they'll have a better idea of the prospects at your bank than anyone on this board. You should also make sure you understand all of the requirements (e.g. commitment to stay at the bank X years after they pay for your MBA).

"When I get sad, I stop being sad and be awesome instead."

Thanks for the advice everyone. I will definitely have to check with HR once I am in more of a position to do so (I haven't started yet - still in school). I would like to keep loans down, which is why I was hoping for a part time program, but if it is going to limit my prospects, that is not worth the cost. If I do decide to go for a full time MBA, which would be the best to look at in that area? I would rather not move, since I will be living with my girlfriend who will also have a full time job at that point.

For full-time: Columbia is best (Top 5), NYU is competitive (Top 10-15), Yale SOM would be a distant third choice (Top 30 or so?). I don't think there are any other well regarded programs in the area, but double check the popular rankings (businessweek, USNews, Forbes, etc.).

Also, don't rule anything out too early. In a few years your girlfriend may be ready for a move too, or she might not be in the picture anymore (sorry, but true). As I said above, start thinking now about what you can do to boost your application, no matter where you might end up going.

"When I get sad, I stop being sad and be awesome instead."

Sounds like I should go for a full time program. Does anyone know if any BBs (specifically UBS) sponsor a full time MBA? I would love to get it paid for since I'm not going to be making that much money in my operations job, but that probably isn't going to be possible.

Thanks for all the feedback.

Dfrusso

Why don't you enjoy working for your 2 years, experience working life... then parlay your 2 years of operations into a better job for year 3 and 4... THEN start your MBA.

Why are you so eager to get on with things, take your time. Allow yourself to d-e-v-e-l-o-p-e... don't force things.

My take is that if you can make the IB money, they'll take you regardless of how you got the MBA. All that matters is the line that says ..."Columbia MBA 200X", so you shouldn't have a problem. I don't think your chances are any better or worse because you have a part-time MBA, infact when we interviewed candidates this year from top schools, the part-time question never comes up - because we don't care - and even if it does, its not enough to ding a candidate.

If you have a Columbia MBA, you have the "brand", so it comes down to developing an an "edge" over your competition. Frankly, I think the part-time/full-time argument for a top notch Columbia MBA is really really silly.

Once, you've sifted through 1000 - 2000 resumes to pick 50 slots (frankly I can't even stand picking from 10), you'll see where I'm coming from; this part-time thing isn't a criteria in the selection process.

Of-course you shouldn't put "Part-time MBA" on your resume, just leave it as Columbia MBA, and you'll be alright.

The dates won't jive. I disagree with the previous poster, the EASIEST differentiator in 1000 apps is if they did a part-time MBA. The whole mindset of recruiting for jobs is if there is doubt in the mind of the person seeing your resume, they'll take a pass. If they see that you did a part-time, the natural question is "why wasn't he/she good enough to get into the full time program?"

Unfair? Yes. Incomplete? Yes. But a necessary filter when you are in the mindset of eliminating a large number of candidates.

The recruiting culture is stubborn, conservative and slow-moving. Something to think about; HBS doesn't do too well in b-school rankings, but how do you think it does in recruiting? It's easy and natural (especially when you went to a "higher ranked" school) to make the argument that recruiters are irrational because HBS still carries so much weight despite its bad rankings but the bottom line is, things are the way they are. You can either play the game or whine about how unfair it is...

The last paragraph was more of a general commentary than directed at anyone in particular.

So I guess I can agree with the thedonmega that "All that matters is the line that says ...'Columbia MBA 200X'"

I don't mean to make fun of tdm, but the truth is probably that he's never noticed part-time vs. full-time because he's only looked at full-time resumes, because those are the only programs his bank recruits at.

Whether or not Part-time is easier to get accepted to depends on the school, but in most cases I would say yes. Much more important, though, is that almost none of the top 20 schools offer part-time programs, and banks do not recruit at lesser schools. As I said above, NYU is the only part-time program where you might have a shot, but even there you will still not be able to do a summer internship, etc. Personally, I would only do part-time if you had a written guarantee from UBS that they would put you in IBD as an Associate after your MBA. Otherwise, you are better off going full-time and taking out loans.

EMBAs are typically for people who are Director level or above, i.e. 8-10+ years of work experience. Check out Columbia's EMBA class profile here: http://www2.gsb.columbia.edu/emba/overview/ataGlance.html

"When I get sad, I stop being sad and be awesome instead."

i've been reading this thread with much interest. i'm considering doing an mba, but am hesitant because i am at a post-mba career level at the moment. my colleagues who have been recruited at my level were m&a associates at top firms. i don't know whether i would be able to come in at the appropriate level if i go full-time (i.e. i would lose 2 years of career progress and come in at my current level). i'm considering an executive mba at columbia, to suplement my career if i decide not to go full time.

I think there's a lot of good perspective in the comments here.

Getting the MBA is important for your resume and for the connections you can make. I second the comment about how it, and the recruiting dance that happens in full-time MBA programs, is important in terms of learning about the culture of I-Banking.

Getting the first, real, legitimate, "I-am-an-I-Banker" job is its own separate, specific, structured, big time-investment task. (Unless you're blessed with family that have awesome connections, but if that's the case, you wouldn't even need to be talking to us.) Getting the first job puts you in the club, but doing so is such a big project that it’s like a second degree program that you undertake, along with your primary studies for the MBA.

Now, even for folks at the top MBA programs who don’t have prior I-banking experience, it takes a lot of networking and schmoozing to get the first job, and the mating dance for that is at its most elaborate for the largest I-banks. They're the ones that have the bulk of the jobs, so their cultural rules tend to dominate. But pedigree (great MBA, bulge bracket in first job) isn't everything -- it's just a really helpful prerequisite to have that branding on your side, because it serves as a sort of vetting for prospective employers that shortens your process for getting interviews (maybe you get your interview after 10 phone calls, not 40, if you've got pedigree on your side.)

But realize that there are smaller banks where just tireless networking alone can get you in the door for that first job. Yes, maybe it'll take you 60 phone calls per firm, and a ton of patience, but eventually you can make lightning strike and get somebody to take you on at entry level. After a year or two, you WILL still have to do a "first job search Part II (the sequel)" project in order to get into a better bank, but that's merely a tough, not a gargantuan, task to make that lateral move. For one thing, by that point, you already know the language and culture and buzzwords, which makes it easier to sell yourself.

By the end of the process, you will have learned about how networking is done and about salesmanship. And those are key skills to add to your arsenal and your personality.

The main caveat I would make to the other posters' remarks, though, is that since it's a multi-year process (a year or so getting into an MBA program, a couple of years doing the MBA (longer if part-time)), it's highly possible that you will not see a consistent economic climate during that time. If there's a recession or slowdown, especially affecting higher-margin I-bank products (e.g., M&A, equity underwriting, high-yield, structured finance), it's possible that hiring cutbacks or layoffs could put you out in the cold. Those are an inevitable part of playing in the I-banking industry, and most of us are subject to their unpleasant influence (or the threat of it) at one time or another. (Because the banks can kick most anyone to the curb and trust that a year or two later when things pick up, there'll be another horde of kids who will happily pay in blood to take the new slots.) During the lean times, should they affect you, if someone else paid for your MBA, or you went to a cheaper school, you will have less financial pressure from loans hanging over your head. That's not trivial -- I had to put my Manhattan rent on credit cards and do some fancy footwork with my loan deferrals in order to stay local so I could actively job-hunt during the last recession, and I sure wish I didn't still have the student loans I was paying when I went through that.

Now, when jobs started opening up again, I was the first one in line due to my pedigree. (Ivy undergrad + Ivy full-time MBA) So in that sense, the pedigree began to pay for itself once again, in terms of speeding my job hunt.

But also keep in mind, that in the long run, once you get past that painful process of getting the first job, academic credentials over time tend to matter less and less. After a few years of experience in the industry, you have contacts and clients who will vouch for you and give you leads, you have a deal sheet or a coverage list or whatever that you can use to market yourself with, and you know the game and how better to stay in it and profit from it. When you've got 10 years in the industry and are an established MD with a reputation in whatever your particular financial product/industry specialty is, no one's going to ask you in an interview if your Stern MBA was full-time or part-time.

There's no way getting around paying your dues, one way or another, and with each way you choose to do so, you elect a different risk profile (e.g., high debt vs. no debt but taking longer to finish the degree, vs. bulge bracket for your first job, vs. highly-volatile Ibanking role vs. less-cyclical ones). And you live with that over time. But, really, as others have put so well, this is the game, and we all live by it, so buckle up, dig down, and enjoy the tough ride as much as you can.