McKinsey Dubai vs Bain LA
I recently got summer internship offers from Bain LA and McKinsey Dubai. I've had previous exposure to the Bain people, but recruiting season was my first go around with McKinsey. Anyway, I'm torn between the two, and since I am just a college jr, with very little experience, I thought i'd post here and see if I can get your 2 cents. If you've had any experience with either office, I'd love to hear your take on it. Clients, environment, projects, etc...all of that would be appreciated.
Also, when it comes time to turning down an offer, how can I do it without burning any bridges, or is that inevitable?
Thank you!
How'd you get the Mckinsey dubai offer if i may ask?
I don't know what you mean by that...on the most basic level-I applied, ranked Dubai and interviewed..same thing with LA
Dubai in the summer is horrible since the weather is absolutely unbareable (hot and very humid) but hey, you get international experience out of it which is a +.
I don't think you could go wrong either way. I think the quality of clients and professional talent in the LA office will probably be better (just an assumption - no facts) but if you're looking for a whole different experience then Dubai is your choice.
It also comes down to which team you would like working for. At the end of the day if you're working long hours then you want to be working with people you like.
He means why did you choose dubai? did u grow up there, have family in the country, etc.
if you did spend time in dubai you would know to avoid it during the summer as the weather is unbearable. However, the international experience would definitely be valuable.
Dubai is death in the summer. Think the hottest, most humid weather ever. Two seconds outside and the sweating starts.
Two seconds? It's so hot just by looking outside you start sweating.
For an internship I doubt it matters.
For full-time, it depends.
You will make more money in Dubai, but despite the McK brand, it (inckuding both Bain and BCG) are not the market leaders in Dubai.
Bain, on the other hand, is very strong in LA, which is a fun city.
For money and b-school options, and obviously, if you're serious about the Middle Easr, McK fulltime is better. Otherwise, I suspect Bain LA is a better experience.
i think bain LA will give you better exit opps.
Do you think you're going to want to work at McK or Bain full-time after the summer?
I don't know if that's an either/or question or if you're just asking me about full-time work in general. I would like to work at Bain/McKinsey after the summer, but I'm not sure which office. Thanks for all of the help thus far!
dude McK dubai, you will make more, no income tax, great exp for bschool. Only con i can think of is that Dubai lacks the professionalism you see in the states. oh yea and its hot as balls, don't forget you will be in the middle of a tropical desert
.
Could somebody shine the light on the OP's second point, which is essentially "Is it possible to turn down an offer without killing your future there/burning bridges? And if so how?"
LA = hot chicks dubai = hot
seems easy
Without a doubt, Bain. You will have access to better clients, projects and teams.
In Dubai the weather isn't much of an issue since you'll always be indoors except when you walk from a building to your car/taxi. Life is pretty good, but not as good as LA. Contrary to what people are saying, you won't make that much more money than you would in LA since your salary will be adjusted based on the fact that you won't be paying tax, especially at the entry level. Not to mention, if you're an American citizen you pay tax no matter where you work (if you make over 80k/year).
Don't get me wrong, I know a few people in McK Dubai, and some great partners as well... but at an entry level you're better off learning in a developed market with educated clients. In Dubai you'll be frustrated because you'll have to dumb down all of your projects since your clients do not understand simple concepts and have no clue about strategy.
You are better off earning your stripes in a developed market. You can always do a stint in emerging market later. In LA you will have an enhanced learnng curve both from the people you work with internally as well as your client interactions. The US "stamp" on your CV will carry much more cache which you can leverage later, regardless of geography.
RIffs is right when he says the perceived savings in Dubai is way overrated. Even if your end game is Dubai, spending time in the US will positing you in a better light if and when you choose to go there. The Western Expat always comes with a sort of halo in the early years - i.e. he's gotta be right, he's western educated and has already done this in a market that counts.
LOL to that
isnt it easier to get in MBB dubai, (or mid east in general?) I think if this is not your final destination (I.E youre done with B-school) Bain LA would look alot more impressive to employers and b school admissions. They all know getting into MBB in the mid east is a cake walk compared to the big 10 or so offices in the US
Why this bullshit?
You don't think it's true? These offices are very new and went in a huge hiring spree a few years back. Candidates that would normally have no place in an MBB office were getting interview opportunities. If you think getting into McKinsey Dubai is on par with getting into McKinsey NYC or Boston, then I really don't know what to say to you
It's easier, but not by much anymore. Dubai has become an extremely competitive office now. It's obviously easier for an Arabic speaker to get in to a Dubai office, than it would be for him/her to get in to a NYC office since he'll have a competitive advantage in Dubai. However, for everyone else the playing field is not so much different. Cities such as Istanbul, Moscow, Dubai, etc. are now almost tougher to get into than other major cities in Europe and the US (NYC and London being some of a few exceptions), don't underestimate the amount of quality candidates that apply to these types of offices now.
BCG in the Middle East is run out of Germany (hence why so many Germans sit in the Middle East office), so don't expect a dumbed down recruitment process. I went through Bain recruitment in Dubai and it was not easy (6 quant heavy cases and tough interviews).
McK Dubai is a 3 round process for associates; 1st round being 2 cases and you'd have to be quite under prepared not to make it through since they're pretty lenient. 2nd and 3rd round is clumped together into a day which makes it tiresome, and it's also a lot more challenging to make it through.
If you want an easier ride into MBB (and don't speak Arabic), you have to think smaller than Dubai; perhaps an office somewhere in Africa, East Asia and South America.
I see, maybe I'm working with old information, ( in 2008 it seemed like everyone and their dog was getting interviews at MBB from my school for mid east offices). What about the smaller offices in the region, Bahrain, Qatar, Egypt , etc? Any thoughts on them? Also any thoughts on top ranked non MBB frims (booz, at Kearny ....)
The main difference is that outside of the US most firms don't have a selection of 'target schools' that they recruit from. Sure Ivy league schools are recognized everywhere, but in Europe people will still interview candidates from public universities, in the Middle East they're going to recruit people from American Univ. of Beirut, etc. So in that sense it is sometimes easier to get the first interview, but if you're not up to the standard of the firm in the US you're likely to not make it in Dubai or anyone else either.
As for the other offices:
I don't have enough reliable information to post anything about Egypt right now..
Bahrain is still a mess at the moment, which is unfortunate since in my opinion it's the most welcoming, friendly and authentic country in the gulf. Roland Berger is interviewing in Bahrain.. I know they considered closing the Bahrain office down last year but I guess they decided against it (I know of at least 3 people who interviewed there over the summer), perhaps they won a few key projects there. The other consulting offices are staffed minimally in Bahrain but it's worth going for.
Personally, I can't stand Qatar. I couldn't stand being there (most lifeless place I've ever been) and the arrogance and indifference of the locals didn't make things easier. However, there are A LOT of projects happening there and there are many more to come. In terms of recruitment, most consulting firms don't have an office there yet and are just staffing it out of the other GCC offices. What that means is that in the next few years you'll see MBB and the 2nd tier firms start setting up in Qatar locally, which would be a good time to try and get your foot in the door. Usually McK is the first to market and Bain is last (if they come in even at all), so the general rule of thumb is to keep your eyes on what McK does in emerging markets and the rest will follow.
I have not heard many good things about ATK so far. We just recruited someone from them and she starts in 2 weeks. I'll see what she has to say and post an update later. I gave up on applying there after spending 10 minutes on their website; the application pages were a mess and unprofessional which really put me off! could be better now.
Booz is considered the best firm in the middle east (even better than MBB), but by what measure I'm not sure. In terms of quality, it's always hard to say. However, they certainly get the most projects as they have the strongest connections with all the governments. I always avoided it though because it just seemed like an exclusive Lebanese club to me. I prefer to work in a more diverse environment. They recruit centrally out of Lebanon, so it won't matter which office you apply to. BCG also recruits centrally so won't matter which office you apply to.
OW is very strong in FS in the region, but if you do join their FS track you will be stuck in Saudi indefinitely. That's a deal killer for most people, and I know people who resigned after a year of trying it out. It's not easy, particularly since flights from Dubai to Saudi are infrequent and end up eating into your weekend most of the time. I don't know anything about their general management track in the region. They merged with OC&C here around 2 years ago, so I'm assuming those guys do the bulk of the general management work that comes in.
Bain recruits out of Dubai but just hired around 15 people for their September intake (which is a huge amount given their small size). If you plan on applying I would wait until the new year.
Many people ask about the Big 4 as well. PwC has a strong strategy team now (good quality people and projects), with about 20-25 people on the team, based in the UAE. Other than that, I would avoid the Big 4 like the plague there. I don't know anyone who is happy at a Big 4 firm in the Middle East, in fact, they're all miserable.
In any case, the region is growing quickly and recruitment is strong. It seems like a good time to apply and I recommend trying out all the firms, regardless of reputation. The GCC is a small place and building a strong network is easy, which means moving to other firms is always an option going forward.
@Riffs Where do you work? are you based in the gulf?
Just curious, how do you know this? Do you work there? Also, with MBB recruiting taking place in the fall/winter in the US every year, don't you think it will hurt waiting until the new year?
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