Michigan Ross vs Penn (Not Wharton) for IBD
Which is better for IBD? Penn's Arts and Science's economics major or Michigan's Ross School of Business?
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I would go Penn even if it's not Wharton, it seems like any kid who wants a banking job there can get one, but that's hearsay.
I cosign. I'm a history major from Penn with full time offer at BB. Also, social life is amazing here.
Go to Ross @ Michigan. Have a real social life
I would go to Penn as well. Michigan gets less spots for IBD & its absurd how competitive it is at that school for IBD jobs. An Ivy league brand always is a huge trump card as long as you have the grades/goods to go with it. If you do go to Michigan, you wont be getting much of that partying in. You'll be studying all the time to beat the curves.
personally, based on what i've see, recruitment's about the same at each. i was never a huge fan of the undergraduate business degree though. go to penn and get a real education.
also, penn has the best social life of the ivy leagues, for what that's worth.
penn. it's a more reputable school
definitely Penn
I go to one of the aforementioned schools and I think it's probably a tie. You would be surprised how the Wharton kids just dominate the job search at Penn. Furthermore, there are only about 300 kids/class in the undergraduate Ross school (550 Wharton undergrads, and 1,000+ CAS Penn kids).
At Michigan in Ross, you will have a distinct advantage (I hear banks rarely look outside the b-school). At Penn Arts and Sciences, you will really need to have a rockin GPA combined with non-academic real-world finance experience to have a shot at competing with Wharton students (of course, there are ALWAYS exceptions each year).
There is one MAJOR other factor though. If you can get a 3.8+ GPA your freshman year in the college at Penn, your chances of switching to Wharton are very, very good. And, let's be real, Wharton > Ross any day of the week.
However...I really, really, really think you should take into account Michigan's football tradition before you make your decision. It is f*in amazing. And the girls at Penn are broke. (These are all VERY valid influences in making your college decision so I don't wanna hear anything).
This is a rather valid point as well.
You should definitely go to Ross over non-Wharton. When BBs look at your resume and they see you aren't Wharton its definitely a big drawback. Ross gets a fair number of spots (definitely more than non-Wharton Penn kids).
Plus, you get UM football and a good social life.
So, unless you think you will kill it and transfer to Wharton don't goto Penn.
Of course if you are still in HS, get the fuck off of the forum and have some fun.
To everyone in HS on this board, you don't even know what college is like, how do you think you possibly know what you want to do. I didn't even know what banking was until my Junior of college year and wound up at a BB. Before that I wanted to be all sorts of other things.
To everyone: I'm not a HS student.
If you aren't an HS student whats with the question? Are you at Penn and looking to transfer? Might illuminate things and get you a better opinion then just, which is better.
Michigan Ross in my opinion, but its close.
Penn. Any College major at Penn can get into banking if s/he wants it enough. I don't know any College majors here who wanted banking and didn't get it; a lot of it is self-selection (i.e. a much lower percentage of college majors are interested in banking which obviously means not as many get recruited). Also, I don't care what anyone says but the Penn name will carry you further than the Ross one. Ivy League schools (and maybe Stanford and MIT) have a cachet that others just can't match.
You can't really go wrong with either, though. I just think Penn is a better choice.
(Full disclosure: I'm a CAS major at Penn with a full-time offer.)
Penn is way better IMO, and the fact you get access to wharton recruiting, chance to transfer, great alumni, and ivy league status. michigan is not an ivy
I'm at Umich right now, planning to transfer to UPenn CAS. I can't go to Wharton because I don't meet the requirements and if I do transfer into CAS, I can't transfer internally into Wharton again. So Wharton is not even an option.
Boss, I'd be careful transferring into CAS and taking econ. If you're not a math stud, you're going to be finding yourself a bit lost. That said, if you're confident you can hack it here (3.5+) you will get banking ops.
hahahahahahaha NOT TRUE WHATSOEVER. You can't be serious, right? Penn's econ classes are a joke.
Math stud for econ? Give me a break. The extent of the "math" you need to know is basic differential and integral calculus.
to a high school student, i'd recommend penn, but transferring sucks. just stay at michigan.
Second this: would you really want to give up all your friends and big 10 football to go somewhere where you "might" give yourself a better chance at an IB gig? The difference is marginal - if you're good enough to get an IB gig from Penn, then chances are you're motivated enough to get it from Ross.
lol at "math stud for econ" at penn cas. maybe at chicago or mit you could pretend econ involves a little math.
econ at most any school can get quantitative if you take the right courses. dont diss without the facts
what counts as "quantitative"? as far as i know, basic calculus is pretty much all you need for econ...
He's right that you "can" make econ a pretty quantitative major, but for someone just majoring in it to get a job (and not to go to grad school), there's really no reason to. You can take the minimum requirements and get by with just basic calculus and stat.
It's actually pretty easy to get a high GPA your first couple of semesters in the college or engineering schools and transfer into Wharton. Internal transfers are not too difficult.
I know lots of kids who have done it.
You should try U of hawaii. Lots more fun and Hawaii is the new "in" for banking.
^is that the real joke?
Penn is another level. Ross places extremely well considering it is in a huge school with acceptance rate over 25%, but Penn (even non-wharton) would do you much better on Wall Street.
IMO, Penn (non-Wharton) is vastly overrated on this website. It seems like the really elite jobs (BX R&R/M&A) are taken by the M&T, Huntsman, and Vagelos students. Then, it looks like the top Wharton kids take the GS/MS/JPM/EB jobs. Then the upper-mid tier of Wharton kids take the rest of the BB jobs along with other boutiques. I would reason that it is really, really difficult to get a top-BB or EB job out of Penn because how can you justify a 3.8 in Econ when there's a kid at Wharton with a 3.7/3.8, who has relevant coursework? Not saying it is impossible, just seems like a road that forces you to do much more than you have to.
By all measures, Penn is a great academic school. I think doing well there will set you up for any graduate school opportunities. But I do think that elite jobs will be harder to come by at Penn compared to Michigan (given that you do well at Ross). I would stick it out at Michigan.
Disclaimer: I have friends in CAS, Huntsman, Wharton, and M&T.
I don't know about that, placement at Penn CAS (http://www.vpul.upenn.edu/careerservices/files/2013CASFinalReport.pdf) is better than Ross (http://www.bus.umich.edu/EmploymentData/TopHiringCompanies.htm) when you control for skewed factors in a comparison between a B-school and an ivy league liberal arts education in judging placement at banks.
Important to consider: grad school placement, those waiting for grad school placement (paralegals, hospital researcher) should be discounted (around 35%), as well as an unknown amount who want to go into unrelated fields.
Also competition for BB places is not cut throat, it is seemingly random at Penn CAS. An econ major is probably not in the best position compared to a history/PPE major when you have Whartonites with their skill set staring you down.
In addition, Big 3 consulting and tech recruit far more heavily at Penn CAS than at Ross, the smartest kids not going to grad school will usually take elite consulting/tech over BB IBD any day. PE/venture capital having a bigger influence on campus (Blackstone does not recruit solely at Wharton ... ), competition is less for the BB places there. The Wharton-only myth perpetuated on this site, is just that, a myth.
Also transferring into Wharton is not difficult, a 3.4 and some good reasons will get you there 80% of the time (actual internal transfer rate). It's why Wharton's undergraduate class swells from 450 to 670 by graduation. On WSO there's huge information asymmetry on this, which I mean, Penn is pretty fine keeping this on the down low.
Disclaimer: I'm a CAS/Wharton dual degree.
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