When talking on this site about MBA admissions from PE, it is usually in the context of MF or top UMM/MM funds. My question is how do associates from "no-name" MM funds do in H/S/W MBA admissions processes? Assuming GPA and GMAT meet the class average for the respective programs.
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Bump. Also interested.
bump
from what I've seen, it's an uphill battle at H/S, but generally do fairly well at the other MBA business schools">M7 assuming stats are in line
Any idea about aspects of the application that could make the uphill battle more manageable? Like, say, would a 750 GMAT be enough with everything else in line?
High GMAT always helps but generally I think it will be tough unless the fund has a history of sending people to H/S or you have some other hook (overcoming adversity, D1 athlete, etc)
Nothing against Frank, but would like to hear a few more perspectives on this if anyone has insight to share.
I don't think Frank is off the mark. The competition among the Pre-MBA PE candidate pool is very intense for H/S/W admissions. You pretty much need to "check all the boxes" -- high GPA, strong UG, demonstrated leadership experience, GMAT > the school's median score, brand name IB (prior to PE), and strong rec letters -- to give yourself a fighting chance.
I have a couple of friends who met all the criteria above (with 99 percentile GMAT scores) and still did not even get an interview at HSW (got into the rest of the MBA business schools">M7 schools they applied to). It helps if you work at a PE firm that has close ties to HSW, preferably with senior partners who are alumns of such programs and still well connected. Even then, it's still a crapshoot if you aren't applying from a "pipeline" fund (typically select UMM firms, most MFs).
Totally agree with what's been said here on being an uphill battle. I go to a non-HSW MBA business schools">M7 and of my classmates who did pre-MBA PE, almost all were at MM/LMM firms (MF I can think of.
From my UG, I even know a couple LMM PE associates who struck out across the MBA business schools">M7 and went to Tuck/Yale/Haas, but I'd guess they had more like 700-720 GMAT and/or lower GPA (3.3/3.4). If you do a quick search of H/S, you see that a majority of PE folks came from UMM/MF, good UG, and/or top IB (GS/MS/JPM/EB). I can't think of many LMM/relatively no-name PE fund candidates who got into H/S.
This being said, Wharton has tons of ex-MM PE and that seems to be really achievable for someone of that background. I think with a 730 or certainly 740+, good story, ECs, etc. Wharton is achievable for the bulk of MM PE applicants.
I think this is right but want to reiterate that Wharton is also tough for MM PE guys. My general take is that H/S have gotten more difficult for traditional MF/UMM candidates and a lot of those kids have ended up at Wharton which crowds out the MM and LMM guys. Generally speaking LMM PE people with decent credentials should be able to get into K/B/S/C but even that’s not a sure thing.
Yes the brand you worked for is a factor, but a more important factor is what you accomplished on the job and off the job, both in schools and after your graduated. Were you a leader and person of impact? It's not all about the brand. It may be more about the qualities and achievements that got someone the position at a top ranked firm. If you have those qualities and displayed them in a different context, then you still have a chance.
And yes a high GMAT helps.
I'm obviously not an admission expert like yourself, but I'd be really curious to see how many no name MM PE clients of yours got into H/S even with top grades, top ECs, and a strong story. I'm not a buyer of the fact that an adcom will care about the strength of PE experience in the MM over a brand name.
I've seen a lot of MF associates who have completed 0 deals, no major responsibility in PE, etc but have KKR/Apollo on their resume and a rec from a H/S partner and they get into H/S. That's against those from comparable backgrounds who went the MM route and had great experiences. I'm talking multiple deals, fundraising experience, promoted to partner track, fund is growing rapidly, etc but they never end up at H/S.
I'd love to be proven wrong on this.
I think your application also matters a lot. Will echo a lot of the above - for context I got a 760 (99%ile) on my GMAT and worked at a start up fund after working at a well known MM PE fund that had a pipeline to H/W. I was waitlisted at W and didn't get in and ended up at an MBA business schools">M7 school.
From what I saw at my MBA business schools">M7 and from interview process, it's doable to get into W without coming from a blue chip fund but it is extremely difficult and you should do everything in power to put yourself at advantage (e.g. apply round 1 over 2 etc.). I think its reasonable to assume one of the non-HSW MBA business schools">M7 will scoop you but its also possible to whiff there if your app isn't great. H/S unless you are an URM is not going to happen - too many funds have alum partners that push their kids in that those spots are almost 100% spoken for esp if you don't fall into some special URM like bucket
Generally speaking, do you think a non-HSW MBA is worth it from your perspective? I'm sure it depends on what your career goals are but wanted to hear your perspective.
If you want to do something other than the buyside, yes. If you want to do AM, maybe add CBS/Booth. If you're set on returning to PE/upgrading your PE shop, probably not (unless you're getting kicked out and you're SOL anyway).
PE recruiting drops pretty steeply after H/S/W (with H/S leading the way). AM type stuff will be H/W and maybe CBS/Booth but quantity and quality will drop when you get there. Not to say you can't land a great gig, but there will be fewer one-offs (Baupost etc.). Can still readily make it to a Fidelity/T-Rowe from CBS and I'd assume Booth.
Depends on career goals. I wanted to gtfo finance after 5 years of hating my life and am extremely happy I didn't get into wharton in retrospect although its the school I wanted to go to the most out of all MBA business schools">M7 (including H/S) when I was applying. More on that below.
For me, I couldn't be happier with how my MBA went (besides for final quarter zoom U). I went into MBA with the thought that I hated finance so if I could find something that paid decently that gave me work life balance and I made a few friends along the way, it'd be worth it. I ended up being able to make the career pivot I wanted into tech although at a marketing role and not PM as I had envisioned when I joined MBA. I've been loving my first gig out of MBA and the pay is actually higher than I was making in PE due to stupid market valuation but regardless of that I am very happy with my choice. If you are looking to do anything outside of high-finance from a "traditional career" perspective, all of the top schools, not just MBA business schools">M7 will suit you well. I am friends with several people from exchange at schools below MBA business schools">M7 like Duke who landed great gigs.
I can ramble on but unless you want to be a PE/HF bro, while the advantages of H/S can't be overlooked, you will have great opps from any top school. School I was at I would argue places significantly better than W in tech and was a better fit for my career goals when I stopped being a prestige whore. If you are set on PE/HF, I kind of think you do need to be at MBA business schools">M7 and outside of HSW nothing will come on campus so you need to grind yourself but its doable. Obviously there are advantages of HS like the network/inherent wealth of classes etc. that you don't really get with MBA business schools">M7 but I think the network you build is still very valuable and I quite liked the majority of the students in my school.
Anecdotally, I think if you're not at a name brand MF/UMM fund that has ties to H/S, it's very difficult if not impossible to get into either of those schools with a PE background.
The problem is that seats are so limited at those schools and they're only taking a certain # of kids from PE/VC. Like it or not, they want to maintain relationships with all the top firms so they're always going to take a certain number from all the big name funds as well as other notable UMM/MM funds. I haven't heard of/seen the adcoms save seats for up and coming funds just because that doesn't matter to them. If your fund doesn't have a consistent pipeline to H/S, your Partners don't have a strong relationship to the school, you're not likely to come back and be a massive donor, then why take you over a guy/gal with a MF on their resume.
Even W is tough because all of the MF/UMM kids who don't get into H/S default into Wharton. Wharton is probably a little more accepting of no-name MM funds, but they have a cap on Finance people as well.
The rest of the MBA business schools">M7 tends to be where you'll fall assuming the rest of your application is strong. The good news is, even though the rest of the MBA business schools">M7 aren't as strong as H/S for PE recruiting, they generally do decently if you're looking to place back into MM/LMM PE, especially if it's regionally based.
Current Wharton PE student here, after MM PE. I think what you said is accurate.
It's a bit complex - while the average MM PE person probably falls into the rest of the MBA business schools">M7 (as you mentioned in your your last paragraph), there are so many more of them vs. MF candidates that for what it's worth, most of wharton PE people have MM experience, not MF.
Something like this
100 MF/UMM candidates -> 70 H/S. 30 Wharton -- 70% H/S acceptance (arguable) 500 MM candidates -> 40 H/S (20 each), 60 Wharton, 400 Rest of MBA business schools">M7 -- MF have trickled down, you still are mostly weighted towards being around MM peers.
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