Comments (141)

Apr 1, 2009

Healthcare is doing well. There have been many articles about how MS's healthcare advising on big deals, like pfizer wyeth, landed MS huge fees.

Apr 1, 2009

its morgan stanley; almost every group is top notch.

fig, healthcare, industrials, transportation, communications (media & telecom) are each pretty good bets for now.

fyi, if this is for ny, stay away from tech, or what little remains of that "group." all the action for them is run out of cali.

Oct 16, 2011
ChelseaFC85:

its morgan stanley; almost every group is top notch.

fig, healthcare, industrials, transportation, communications (media & telecom) are each pretty good bets for now.

fyi, if this is for ny, stay away from tech, or what little remains of that "group." all the action for them is run out of cali.

Tech is one of MS's top groups. In fact would go as far to say MS is the best bank for Global Tech.

You know you've been working too hard when you stop dreaming about bottles of champagne and hordes of naked women, and start dreaming about conditional formatting and circular references.

Apr 1, 2009

whatever group that will accept you at the end of the term

Apr 5, 2009

Health care is seeing lots of actions. What do you guys think of natural resources?

Apr 5, 2009

Side note: MS shits on columbia, stern, stanford SA. FT offer rate is very low... Any insights for any other schools' SA?

Sep 16, 2009

bump on this, wondering for FT (don't care about likelihood of offer conversion or not), besides the obvious M&A answer, which are the a) most prestigious and b) best to work for groups?

Oct 5, 2009

bump?

Oct 9, 2009

Hey guys, I'd also be interested to hear what groups at MS outside of M&A would offer the best PE or business school exit opportunities. Any thoughts would be really helpful!

Oct 9, 2009

Does everyone on this forum just wanna do banking for the exit opps? What do you wanna do after business school?

Oct 12, 2009

Not sure yet, but it is something that I'm thinking about as a potential option. Just wondering whether being in any specific groups at MS would help or hurt my chances at business school if I do decide to apply later.

Also thinking about PE, so knowing which groups have great reputations or have sent a lot of analysts to top PE funds in the past would be helpful.

Oct 19, 2009

Bump... anybody have thoughts on MS groups?

Oct 19, 2009

Real Estate (if you are interested in this)

Oct 19, 2009

Real Estate (if you are interested in this)

Nov 10, 2009

I keep reading/hearing different things about the MS groups - sometimes I hear industrials is a top group (internally speaking), other times, not so much. Same with M&T...I'm getting the feeling no one really knows around here.

Nov 10, 2009

M&A aside, maybe it's because you can't really go wrong with any of them... if you're a top analyst, you're going to get your exit opps

Dec 1, 2010

bump

Dec 1, 2010

is MS' M&A group most renowned in NY or globally?

Dec 1, 2010

Globally #1 YTD (Announced) and NY is one of the best on the street.

Dec 2, 2010

Does anybody have any insight on the Chicago office?

Oct 13, 2011

bump...

what about ms' CRG or NRG groups? any detail on them?

also do RE analysts typically only go into RE related PE after bnkg?

Oct 13, 2011

Most industry groups at MS are very strong, including CRG

If you put a gun to my head and told me to choose either MS NRG or Real Estate or an M&A group at any other bulge, I would take the latter in a heartbeat.

In my opinion, the best MS industry groups are (in no particular order): communications, transportation, and healthcare

Oct 13, 2011

.

Oct 13, 2011
Solidarity:

Most industry groups at MS are very strong, including CRG

If you put a gun to my head and told me to choose either MS NRG or Real Estate or an M&A group at any other bulge, I would take the latter in a heartbeat.

In my opinion, the best MS industry groups are (in no particular order): communications, transportation, and healthcare

I'd say the tech group is as good as these groups too. Most of the deal flow is in CA, but I've heard the ny tech team also does extremely well compared to other east coast tech teams.

Oct 13, 2011

thks solidarity--which industry groups would you stay away from? NRG and RE? or are those just in the middle of the list

Oct 14, 2011

Tech has been strong even in NY due to the recent tech boom - storied IPO creds and pipeline
Media and Comms is a very strong group with great exit opps
Look at GPUG, big team, lots of dealflow and a hot area if you ask me
Consumer, Retail and Industrials are all okay, not necessarily top choices over the above

Oct 14, 2011

hey im really interested too.. so any additional comments or input would be great.

i keep hearing mixed things about industrials as well...haven't analysts placed well out of that group? why is it not a "top choice"

and how is "gpug" a hot area? pretty boring/flat/stable industry...

Oct 15, 2011

bump.. or pm me pls

Oct 16, 2011

tech

media comms is pretty strong too

Oct 16, 2011

tech in ny tho?.....

Oct 16, 2011

menlo park probably...

Oct 17, 2011

i was wondering about ny groups only..... in your opinion, rank the top/worst according to deal flow, culture, exit opps, etc. etc.

Oct 17, 2011

Most of the tech dealflow is handled at MS Menlo, for NYC healthcare & industrials are top-notch.

I didn't say it was your fault, I said I was blaming you.

Oct 20, 2011

more opinions appreciated.. bump

Oct 20, 2011
new_analyst1:

Just accepted an offer for FT at MS and wanted to see if anyone had insight as to the relative strength of each group.

Before you ask, yes - I have searched the forums. Most of the posts are from a few years ago and group deal flow can change considerably in that time.

This is specifically for the NY office. Thanks in advance to anyone who can provide some insight.

You didn't conduct any due diligence before "closing the deal"....? Did you try asking colleagues?

Oct 20, 2011

M&A

Oct 20, 2011

yea their M&A is highly regarded as being the second best group, just falling behind goldman TMT

Oct 20, 2011

I'm aware that M&A is top notch. How do some of the other groups fare, such as sponsors, healthcare, industrials, real estate, consumer retail, etc.?

Oct 20, 2011

Look in my posts for a detailed overview (from last fall) of the various groups. Not much has changed since then except healthcare has gotten a bit weaker. Placement for 2nd years in Mediacomm was very strong (has been historically but the group was discussed as getting weaker in the past 2-3 years). Top groups still M&A, Mediacomm, P/U, Sponsors, Healthcare, Transpo, WC Tech (not necessarily in that order).

Oct 20, 2011
Black Jack:

Look in my posts for a detailed overview (from last fall) of the various groups. Not much has changed since then except healthcare has gotten a bit weaker. Placement for 2nd years in Mediacomm was very strong (has been historically but the group was discussed as getting weaker in the past 2-3 years). Top groups still M&A, Mediacomm, P/U, Sponsors, Healthcare, Transpo, WC Tech (not necessarily in that order).

Black Jack - I saw your old post last night and found it to be extremely helpful so thank you for that.

I'm not sure if you know anything about the RE group but is their placement mostly to top REPE or have you heard of anyone heading to more traditional funds?

Also, are any of the mentioned groups better for HF placement? I'd imagine Sponsors has largely PE exits, but do the groups that do their own modeling like M&A, P/U, Mediacomm, etc. place well to HF?

Thanks!

Oct 20, 2011

Healthcare is weaker or relatively weaker to peers? From what I've heard the whole sector is having a rough year.

Oct 20, 2011

Number of HC deals closing this year is ridiculous. In one stretch, there were one or more every Monday morning in Dealbook.

Oct 20, 2011

HC has been an incredibly active space in general, so naturally all HC groups have been getting crushed over the past 16 (an estimate) months. MS Healthcare is a solid group with solid exits, though had a few major departures (I believe to DB) in the past few months. Culture in the group isn't great. Would put it behind both JP and GS HC groups. As far as HF looks, I would put MS M&A in that list as well (and probably take out TMT). In my experience West Coast GS TMT goes to VC/PE and East Coast is vast majority PE (MS West Coast Tech is similar, East Coast obviously not as strong).

Oct 20, 2011

Eh we can agree to disagree.

It really comes down to BX M&A/R&R are miles above in terms of HF placement (though this may be due to inherent selection bias). GS TMT/FIG and MS M&A also get HF looks, at least much more so than any other groups on the street (many of which have essentially nonexistent HF opportunities).

Oct 20, 2011

where have people gone from non-M&A groups?

Oct 20, 2011

I have it on pretty good authority from current analysts there that the best groups are by far Merchant Banking divisions:

1. Real Estate PE
2. Traditional PE
3. Credit Partners

And for the people who are MS sell siders:

1. M&A
2. Tech on west coast
3. Media Telecom NYC

Oct 20, 2011

good comments guys, keep it up.

need more info on MS REI, espec. in Europe, but general opinion as well.

Oct 20, 2011

Can't comment on Europe but can vouch for MSREI in SF and NYC. Their capital allocation is 50% from MSREI PE funds and 50% principal balance sheet. They are a megafund in themselves by PE aum.

These guys are the real ballers at MS. Their last fund tanked in crises a bit but that didn't stop them from raising another $4-5 billion.

Oct 20, 2011

How is the industrials group viewed in terms of deal flow, culture, senior guys and respect within the bank? I'm interviewing in a few weeks for a lateral position?

Oct 20, 2011

How do MS groups compare to GS? Obviously GS TMT and MS M&A are tops, but how do Healthcare, Nat Res / P/U, etc fit in and compare?

Oct 20, 2011

MS is top-notch is almost all groups. The only places I would consider taking over MS are GS, Blackstone M&A (if I was purely concerned with exit opps), Lazard, and Greenhill. If you want to go to a bulge bracket, MS is second only to GS (generally speaking, depends on group though). M&A, Media & Telecom, Energy, and Technology are all great groups. There really isn't a bad group to be in at MS though. As MS is more of an M&A focused bank, stick with the industry groups and avoid capital markets (the big commercial banks like Citi and JPM dominate in capital markets). The commercial banks do more sponsors work than MS, but MS Sponsors still places much better into PE, I guess because of the prestige factor.

Oct 20, 2011

would you take a MS NY offer in say consumer over a GS SF/LA offer in TMT, industrials, FIG, RE?

From everyone Ive talked to, it sounds like NY is the best/ideal place to start a career in banking...and feel like the prestige diff between MS and GS isnt great enough to justify to move to sf/la albiet tmt is gs' top group?

any opinions?

Oct 20, 2011
helpneeded:

would you take a MS NY offer in say consumer over a GS SF/LA offer in TMT, industrials, FIG, RE?

From everyone Ive talked to, it sounds like NY is the best/ideal place to start a career in banking...and feel like the prestige diff between MS and GS isnt great enough to justify to move to sf/la albiet tmt is gs' top group?

any opinions?

I'd take GS TMT (SF) over most MS coverage groups.

Oct 20, 2011

Not to hijack the thread, but what groups specifically are housed in the SF and LA offices?

Oct 20, 2011

tech is their best industry group.

their industrials group is not top 3 on the street.

Oct 20, 2011

this is at Morgan Stanley? I thought their industrial practice is decent...even if it is not top three, would you pick it over a higher ranked group (goldman aside).

it feels like choosing college again. Some decide for the overall name while some decide based on the specific program...it seems like there is no right or wrong decision from that standpoint. is that right? i think exit opps are clearly the most important thing for me.

Oct 20, 2011

GS SF --> Tech
GS LA --> More of a focus on media.

Oct 20, 2011
gibranmeng:

GS SF --> Tech
GS LA --> More of a focus on media.

Both top notch? Is SF just tech or TMT?

Oct 20, 2011

For deals and exit opps.
GS SF TMT
1 is going to KKR
2 are going to SLP
1 is going to Elevation

--
Interview Guides
GMAT Tutors

WSO Resume Review

Current:
Senior Analyst - Hedge Fund
Past:
Associate - Tech Buyout
Analyst - Morgan St

Oct 20, 2011

If I'm not concerned with going to a mega fund (with the exception of Elevation - have they done anything big lately?), and I actually do have an interest in media (would like to do something in media & entertainment post-MBA), are exits to PE good in LA? Or is it not even close?

Oct 20, 2011

are you talking about MS/GS LA? if you want media in LA go to UBS.

--
Interview Guides
GMAT Tutors

WSO Resume Review

Current:
Senior Analyst - Hedge Fund
Past:
Associate - Tech Buyout
Analyst - Morgan St

Oct 20, 2011

UBS is done hiring and so is CS. I'm a lateral.

Oct 20, 2011

Not that good from an exit point of view into the buyside. Seems like most of their analysts do a third year in NY or International. Few place well into big funds, although I have heard of one making it into Silverlake.

Oct 20, 2011

is weak. i dont know what you guys are talking about. most of the people i know there left earlier this year. a lot of their senior personnel left as well.
i do know GS and CS are solid in the area htough.

Oct 20, 2011

UBS gig in NY is a sweatshop because they are constantly understaffed, but they are not at all a weak group.

i think most of their industrial practice is actually derived from the chicago office (which has done some big deals to date).

Oct 20, 2011

just cause UBS gig is sweatshop in nyc doesnt mean they're not strong......most of gig group is based out of chicago and I know they have had solid year and worked on some big deals....however, i'd put ubs at #3 behind 1) GS and 2) CS.

Oct 20, 2011

Met couple analysts from:
Power and Utilities group (quit to do Tech IBD at another firm) - he said he was bored with the companies he was exposed to
Industrials group - haven't met anyone but i haven't heard of them being at the top of the table for this category (this is coming from my experience talking to bankers in Industrials group - MS never mentioned when talking to them, always GS for industrials)
Sponsors group - met couple guys; they placed well into PE/HF. one analyst I knew moved into HF very recently, this is for SF FYI.

Oct 20, 2011

Thanks for the input! Can anyone expand on which groups place best into PE out of NY? Particularly looking at Power & Utilities, Industrials,Media & Communications, FIG, and Sponsors. Really appreciate any insight

Oct 20, 2011

media & comm, sponsors are best outside of M&A. all groups get good recruitment prospects but those are usually best.

Oct 20, 2011

Any info on the natural resources and transportation groups at MS?

Thanks

Oct 20, 2011

Transpo, Power & Utilities, Sponsors, and Mediacomms are all great choices. Would not go for Industrials or FIG if the other 4 groups are realistic options.

Oct 20, 2011

bump

Oct 20, 2011

When it comes to the top banks like GS or MS, pretty much all groups are tops. At MS, M&A, Financial Sponsors, and Healthcare have all traditionally been categorized as groups with strong dealflow. Media and Telecomm is also top notch.

Oct 20, 2011

Even GS has mediocre groups. Pick M&A for MS if you can get it.

Oct 20, 2011

smaller groups: NRG, Industrials, tech
larger groups: M&A, GPUG, media & telecom

Oct 20, 2011

M&A, Healthcare, Tech (considering deal flow)

Oct 20, 2011

Everyone's going to say M&A, FIG and TMT

  • eyelikecheese
  •  Oct 20, 2011

Global Business Services

    • 3
Oct 20, 2011

M&A and TMT...

Oct 20, 2011

Honestly, any group in NYC w/ MS is going to carry a lot of weight just on name brand alone. The sexy groups are m&a, sponsors, and media/telecom (from what I understand most of their tech is done out of their Palo Alto office).

However I've been told good things about their real estate product group and industrials coverage group culture are the best. Meaning fratty, I would assume "bro" heavy teams, aka the fun groups. But this is just hearsay so take it for what it's worth. I know a person in sponsors and she's told me 2nd years rarely are in the office past 11:00 when not on a deal and she seems pretty cool.

The people I talked to/interviewed w/ all really seemed to like their jobs so just pick a group that interests you. Moreover I've heard nothing but great things about MS NYC from trading all the way to IB. So congrats man, I couldn't get in so keep asking around and enjoy.

Oct 20, 2011

Congrats man

Oct 20, 2011

PWM is the best.

Christ do a search you lazy fuck. Unbelievable.

People tend to think life is a race with other people. They don't realize that every moment they spend sprinting towards the finish line is a moment they lose permanently, and a moment closer to their death.

Oct 20, 2011

Financial Sponsors, Tech, Real Estate, but of course their M&A product group is generally known as the most competitive to get into. Keep in mind that the best industry group also depends both on where you're located (e.g. FS in NYC might be considered the most prestigious, whereas Tech may trump FS in the Bay Area) and obviously what you are interested in doing following your stint as an analyst.

Oct 20, 2011

NYC, it's M&A by far followed by Sponsors and RE being third.

For SF, it's Tech by far. I've heard that MS isn't very strong in Chicago or Houston, but that's through a 3rd person, so take it for what it's worth.

Oct 20, 2011

pretty sure you haven't been offered a position with MS, given that everyone's already been placed in groups at this point. no need to lie to ask a question...

Oct 20, 2011
anon2007:

pretty sure you haven't been offered a position with MS, given that everyone's already been placed in groups at this point. no need to lie to ask a question...

ouch..haha

Oct 20, 2011

?

Oct 20, 2011

One of my good friends interned at MS IBD. They have standard intern events (about once or twice a week events at bars or other places - i.e. they went to a bowling alley once). The thing that he complained about was that he barely ever got to go to these events..he always had way too much work and couldn't leave. I think it's group dependent though, as he said people in other groups were told by the senior people that they should leave work and go to the events (but that they had to come back to work after..so I guess you can't get drunk at the event).

As for hours, they were pretty bad. I used to get texts from him at like 4am regularly, but he was in M&A, and I think the hours in other groups are more humane.

Oct 20, 2011

M&A is the standout group. Hours will suck, but you knew that coming in.

Oct 20, 2011

Thanks for the replies thus far.

Do you know what the other top groups are at MS after m&a?

Oct 20, 2011

?

Oct 20, 2011

Sponsors is top-notch and so is Real Estate.

MS Tech is good on west coast, not sure about NYC.

Oct 20, 2011

Multiple threads on this topic over the past few weeks. Do a search.

Oct 20, 2011

m&a and sponsors are good...i know their real estate ib industry group is tops as well

Oct 20, 2011

is tops also, especially on the west coast

The search capability on this forum needs to be improved so people top asking the same questions over and over again.

Oct 20, 2011

every group is very strong. Media and Telecom do very well in PE placement

Oct 20, 2011

MS FSG is massive, M&A is small, most industry groups are bigger and RE you can do both RE PE and banking internally.

All groups are strong and place well.

Oct 20, 2011

where did the leaving analysts place in M&A last yr?

Oct 20, 2011

Along the lines of what everyone is saying, all groups are very strong, so it really depends on what you're interested in primarily. Outside of Sponsors and M&A, Media/Telecom is very good (outstanding year in 2006), and RE is the best in the industry. Also, I have to agree with you with regards to Tech only really if you're in Menlo.

As far as BMG, again, MS is good, yet their position is much less certain. Last year, they were number one in terms of volume, advising on all the biggest deals (e.g. Arcelor and Inco), but they weren't even in the top ten the year before.

Oct 20, 2011

MS is second tier in Media and Telecom.
IF you want M&T go to GS or Citi. Lehman was good until Woody left. You don't see MS on any of the big deals.

Oct 20, 2011
goldmansbanker:

MS is second tier in Media and Telecom.
IF you want M&T go to GS or Citi. Lehman was good until Woody left. You don't see MS on any of the big deals.

MS is not second tier in Media/Telecom.

Some of the big deals that you do in fact see MS on...
Media:
They were sole advisors to Time Warner on the Time Warner/AOL deal, pocketing the largest fees in investment banking history.
Plus, they got Robert Kindler last year, which pretty much means anything Comcast does from here on out will have MS on as advisors.

Telecom:
Advised on the Alcatel/Lucent deal, along with GS (MS was lead advisor to Lucent), which was one of last year's biggest deals.
Also, the Sprint/Nextel deal, along with GS and Evercore (MS was lead advisor to Nextel), one of the largest telecom deals ever.

That being said, I would definitely not argue that it could compete with GS, and if Woody were still at Lehman, then I agree that his relationship with AT&T alone would lead to it being a better place to be for M&T. However, he is not there anymore, so I would take MS over Lehman any day now. One you didn't mention is Evercore, which I would probably take over MS if particularly interested in Telecom. But still, being second or third in an industry doesn't automatically make a bank second tier.

And Citi? How could you say with a straight face that Citi is better than MS at anything other than taking deposits? That name definitely doesn't belong there.

Oct 20, 2011

Citi's comms group (M&T) blows MS M&T out of the water and is widely regarded as tops on the street along with GS.

Oct 20, 2011

Ok.
To refute points made by prescott:
Citi has been on all the deals prescott claims MS was on. And Citi took lead roles whereas MS didn't.

To start with the deals prescott mentioned:
Citi was lead for AOL in AOL/TIme Warner
Lead for Sprint, and now lead for Sprint Nextel. Incidentally MS was not part of the Sprint Nextel deal. PLease get your facts right.

And now for what Prescott left out because MS was not part of any of these deals which are all above 20 billion in value:
Citi lead to Bellsouth in ATT/Bellsouth
Citi lead to Cingular in Cingular Wireless/ATT
Citi lead for Cox Communications
Citi lead in Cendant breakup

Plus if you look at all the small-mid market M&T deals it's always GS, Citi and Lehman

Oct 20, 2011

In S&T, their commodities group is simply stellar.

Oct 20, 2011

who Citi or MS?

Oct 20, 2011

For M&T its definately GS followed closely by Citi

Oct 20, 2011

Who cares... guaranteed MS M&T places a billion times better than Citi hands down and anyone would rather work at MS than Citi.

Oct 20, 2011

Pretty sure it was Goldman/Lazard that advised Nextel, not Morgan Stanley. I don't even think MS was on that deal.

Oct 20, 2011

I disagree with westcoasting - i have a good friend in energy at MS. Last year, no one got into HBS or top PE firms. everyone only went to small PE firms or small hedge funds. Westcoasting clearly is still in high school and has no idea how the banking world works if he thinks the brand name alone matters and automatically means you're the best.

Oct 20, 2011
goldmansbanker:

I disagree with westcoasting - i have a good friend in energy at MS. Last year, no one got into HBS or top PE firms. everyone only went to small PE firms or small hedge funds. Westcoasting clearly is still in high school and has no idea how the banking world works if he thinks the brand name alone matters and automatically means you're the best.

What the hell man - we are talking about M&T here. It's not just about the name, but MS M&T places very very well.

You are a moron if you think I'm in high school. If you ask anyone on this board I'm definetely all about group placement, but we aren't talking CS Sponsors, CS/UBS LA, etc.

Plus, weren't you Citisbanker before?

Oct 20, 2011

i merely was showing that the MS name alone does not give you nor guarantee you better exit opportunities as the case of their energy group shows.

your statement was 'Who cares... guaranteed MS M&T places a billion times better than Citi hands down and anyone would rather work at MS than Citi.'

Does this show you appreciate the differences between the banks and their groups? NO.
This clearly reads like you have no clue what you're talking about and only go after the name like millions of other blind monkeys out there.

Oct 20, 2011

Fair.. from a brand perspective MS is far better.

I meant it specifically as a M&T at MS vs. Citi comparison.. but regardless - It'd have to be a terrible group at MS -- or terrible culture -- to not take them over Citi.

Oct 20, 2011

you now concede that Citi M&T is much better than MS M&T. So if you claim to apprecaite group preference, then what does the brand value mean if people in the industry know Citi iis better than MS in that group? you don't make any sense.

Oct 20, 2011

arent you shitibanker.. i mean citibanker

Oct 20, 2011
Comment
Oct 20, 2011
Oct 20, 2011
Oct 20, 2011
Oct 20, 2011