islandbanker:

Just curious - what group in MS are you in Solidarity?

FIG

little_monkey:

JPM M&A is not huge, their analyst class (within the group) is on the smaller side. Being analyst at JPM M&A (vs other groups at JPM or other top banks) does not mean you are better/smarter/getting a great experience.

Relative to other JPM groups

There are a few groups at JPM that do all the M&A modeling "in-house" - something that very few people on this board know. So a good chunk of the big deals that JPM has been on were not even done by the M&A group.

It depends what you're looking for. For example, at JPM, several groups including Healthcare, Diversified Industries and FIG do all of their M&A in house and are much stronger within their own space than at MS. At MS, the M&A group is amazing, but most coverage groups don't do it in house, so that is something to consider as well.

"If you can't model or don't have a diverse list of deals"....

lol does this sound like an analyst at Morgan Stanley to you? Oh and btw dealflow exit opps (case in point BX M&A).

suffice to say, both are great banks. JP has a ton of momentum but top groups at MS outplace top groups at JP. Not to say that this won't change in the future, but it's true right now

Personally I would go with MS especially if I was aware that I could certainly get into one of M & A, P & U or M & T. Otherwise, I would select based on where I liked the people the most.

JPM's also expanding their class by 10%. I've also heard that MS has an ~75 person summer analyst class, which would likely make it the smallest of the BBs.

MS is the choice here. It's not a lot better, but it's better.

Hey hate to revive this, but can someone elaborate on this decision from a group placement perspective? A lot of people here seem to assign an oddly high probability to getting MS M&A, which in my experience is extremely difficult, and then list M&A as having the best exits without elaborating on other groups. Meanwhile, at JPM, people list M&A, Sponsors, CRG, TMT, FIG, HC as all having "great" exits.

Assuming you have these offers and don't have the leverage to get M&A at MS, how would you think about this? Does MS Sponsors place better than JPM Sponsors? MS CRG vs JPM CRG? It is relevant to me- just not sure I understand placement at MS outside of M&A.

every bank is diff with regards to M&A as a product group or within the coverage team. in any group you join, you should be seeking to do M&A - deals, and deal exposure, are what PE is looking for. in either case, JPM and MS are both great and both are sweat shops.

How's the Energy group for the both of these? JPM guys seem great

Don't do that.

Meet people. That will tell you as much as you need to know for what you're looking for in each firm. Websites don't accurately depict the reality of the culture (which is shaped by core values, mentality, and atmosphere .. all that you mention), but the people do.

Find the firms where you feel most at home, then network with any connection you can leverage (alumni, fraternity, relatives), then crush whatever interviews you get. If you wind up with multiple offers, do the same process all over again ... but on a group level rather than firmwide. Figure out which group is best for you within each firm you've received an offer in, network with people there, and see if you can land a desk-specific offer. Whichever bank gives you the best desk offer that fits for you, choose (unless you're either a legend or incredibly lucky and get that at multiple firms).

Thank you! Unfortunately I have to write a cover letter and attach that to my application (it is mandatory). It is for a position in London or somewhere else in Europe. Compared to the US, they value the cover letter more and in fact, there is a chance that people read it. MS told me to first mail them my CV and cover letter, then they will decide whether to interview me. Cover letter is pretty basic, but I have to explain why I am a good fit in just 3-5 sentences. Any advise on that?

great culture, tittles dont separate interaction-relatively speaking of course Very diverse firm that takes pride in those aspects Great to build a career within and very flexible when it comes to role changes great mentor opportunity. Hope those help.

All of the above is true. Also, check the new Employer Database section just added to this site. Several reviews of the firm are available, echo the feedback there.

It's very simple: There's nothing like walking into a Brooks Brothers advertisement every day at 9 am.

Thank you all for the advise! I will manage to write the cover letter

I was joking, please don't include that in your cover letter. ;)

GS and MS

An MS banker will tell you he works at Morgan Stanley. A GS banker will tell you he works at 200 West st.

That's the cultural difference in a nutshell.

Isn't the point of that to be unpretentious?

But dropping around the GS (or any other top bank/firm for that matter) name to anyone who'll listen technically is name dropping because of its correlations. It's the equivalent of someone complimenting your suit and you responding with "Brioni." When I first met this one guy, he told me what he did, but he never said where, even when we were talking about work and market related topics. Fast forward to me meeting his friends. The first thing one of them says to me is "I work at GS w/ X." I feel like most guys at GS fall under one of those two categories.

Topical GSElevator blast from a couple days ago:

@GSElevator:

1: If @ScottDisick fucked one of the Winklevoss twins and had a kid, it would be a Morgan Stanley banker.

Pretty fucking funny if you ask me! (Also, I'm proud of the fact that I had to look up who the fuck Scott Disick was, even though the dude has 1.2m followers.)

https://twitter.com/#!/GSElevator/status/143191378611019776 https://twitter.com/#!/GSElevator

MS>JPM in prestige and pe exits

MS = GS > JPM

Tiger Woods is right

GS is far better than MS on your resume ... and JPM may be on par with either of them. Seriously. GS and MS almost went out of business didn't they????

oh ok, thanks wsofan2009.

I'd say difference is absolutely marginal. It's like comparing Harvard, Yale, and Princeton. Yeah, one can argue that Harvard is better than Y & P, but honestly have any of you HYP'ers ever encountered a case where you get in by the school name on your resume alone?

depends on the group and what you want to do...for MS, go M&A, Tech in Menlo, FIG, perhaps Media and Power. For GS, go TMT, etc....JPM do the balance sheet stuff...

If you to to the UK, note that brits are obsessed with JPM and many think it's the greatest company ever (ie >GS,MS, and everything else)

For the rest of the world however, MS>JPM obviously.

Completely depends on the group.

In Europe, GS > JPM > MS >

In the US, GS > MS > JPM

Go with whichever firm you're more comfortable with. If you're in NYC, you're not even having to decide on location (JPM is all over Park Ave and MS is on Broadway, so you're in Midtown regardless).

If you're in London, JPM is in The City, and MS is in Canary Wharf (though, JPM is going to be moving out to The Wharf soon enough). I don't really like Canary Wharf, as it is a bit far from the West London clubs and restaurants. Also, living in Canary Wharf sucks, so you wouldn't want to live close enough to the office to walk to work.

Given this, in NYC, I would give the edge to MS. In London, I would go with JPM.

Hope this helps!

Thanks for all the comments guys. Helpful to hear your opinion.

I agree that it mainly depends on the group. I've been talking to some groups in both firms, and one of them just seems to offer more flexibility and gives me the chance to state my own preferences for several teams.

Also, I agree that JPM performed far better during the crisis than MS (and even GS). But the question is to what extend do I really care about short term performance... In the end, who knows what's going to happen in the next few years...

Thanks guys! Just gonna go for the best team experience!

^agreed

Depends on what you want to do, and frankly a lot of factors outside of your control (e.g., if you take CS generalist, you may end up getting placed in FIG regardless). Is this for full time?

MS FIG will have good non-FIG exit opps, JPM less so. would take either over a lower-tier firm.

Enough with this FIG pigeonhole crap. If you're good you will have lots of exit opps. CS FIG, which sucks, sends plenty of people to good MM shops every year.

I would actually contradict @ricottacheese to some small extent. MS FIG will indeed get looks for non-FIG exits, but for some reason a lot of the analysts do wind up in post-banking FIG roles. It is more of a HF feeder than PE, at least relative to other groups within the firm. It also has a fairly stiff culture, it's known to be bad not merely in terms of hours, but in the way people interact. I know several people there at every level except MD; was not interested personally and I don't know of anyone who really wanted to be in that group when they were placed into it.

JPM FIG is kind of funny, it's essentially the Harvard group within the firm. There are a number of Harvard alums at the senior level, and for whatever reason, they tend to push summers toward that group. There is a disproportionate number of Harvard and HBS interns in FIG each year. Their exits (from what I have seen) tend to be broader, probably more as a result of the Harvard network being its usual far-reaching self than JPM FIG being a good platform for further opportunities. Of people I know personally, a guy who summered there as a sophomore moved over to GS FIG and went full-time there, and one got hired in the full-time cycle into BX Restructuring after his summer.

What about DB fig exits?

nastynate:

I'd be curious to hear some advice as to which offer you would take, MS or JPM? Both are in NY and both are IBD. Feel free to elaborate.....if you have time

Simple...Choose the one that had the best people. Both are excellent companies and no doubt will have top notch exit ops. If you liked both equally, then I would choose JPM simply cause I think they have an easier road ahead of them.

yeah i definitely agree 100% wih aggiebanker.. you need to choose which ever one has the better people. for me, i get along great with ms people, i haven't met any JPM people so i cant say anything about them. but both are great banks in good positions compared to a lot of other firms so either one would be an amazing opportunity for you. and i also agree that yes, jpm seems to have an easier road ahead of them than ms. good luck, let us know which one you choose!

I'm sure there are numerous folks on WSO with Citi,ML,BofA,UBS,CS, or DB offers who would bite your hand off for either one of those.

There are strong arguments for both - MS is historically more prestigious but JPM's dealflow is currently unparalelled. Good luck.

Dimon & Co. has certainly been gaining ground on the prestige front recently, but as others mentioned you should base your decision on the people. Each bank has their own culture, so talk to as many people as possible and see which group you like more. Not a terrible dilemma to be in, congratulations.