MSF : Program comparison [Vandy,BC,WUSTL]
Is there any great dissension in how well these schools place in IBD?
I was going to pursue an MBA, but thought I may not have enough relevant work-experience, so I was thinking of going ahead and getting an MSF which I could finance myself & put off the MBA until it's compulsory for progress.
My top choice of these schools would be Vanderbilt, because I live relatively close to the area. However, I was wondering whether Vandy had the same recruitment opportunities being way down south as compared to the other schools I listed.
Vandy places well in the south and also in NYC I believe. You should talk to TNA; he's the resident expert on MSF programs. Also, check out his website if you haven't already, as it's got a ton of information about the MSF degree: http://msfhq.com/
I think Vandy / WUSTL are a cut above BC
Thanks for that link, it's very helpful indeed.
So, would you all consider Vandy/WUSTL a 2nd tier school in terms of MSF programs? I was looking for a list of said schools in terms of placement percentages so I could get an idea of the tier descrepency, but I haven't seen such a list yet.
I see UF lists about 18 different companies they've placed with, while MIT had 16, but I just can't bring myself to believe that those numbers mean UF has better placement.
UoF rarely admits anyone who isn't a Florida undergrad. Their placements are abnormally great because of how well their program is run and the emphasis on bringing in alumni and helping MSF students when it comes to work. Plus only really top notch students get into the program which is a self selecting element itself.
As far as MSF programs go you really only have two tiers. MIT and Princeton (not really a true MSF) are the obvious top US MSF programs. UT Austin might move up to that level, but I will include them on the 2nd tier because they are new and regional.
The second tier is really all the usual suspects. Semi targets, strong regional placements, etc. BC, Vanderbilt, WUSTL, Claremont, Villanova, Tulane, UTA, etc. Good schools, decent OCR, strong alumni presence. None are Ivy League schools, but all have consistent FO placements for those students who have what it takes.
You also have programs that place similar to the MSF such as Duke's MMS and UVA's MS Commerce.
Outside of this you have a host of MSF programs that are largely PT and city specific. Drexel for Philly, UHouston for Houston, SMU for Dallas, so on and so forth. Good choices for working professionals looking for a specialized graduate degree and wanting to work and stay in their current city.
I personally wouldn't consider Vandy to be better than BC or Visa versa, but they would be better for the person depending on their circumstances. Vanderbilt is a different atmosphere and has different placements than BC does. Same with Nova, WUSTL and Claremont. If you want to work on the West Coast, CMC is the better school. If you hate Boston and the Northeast BC will obviously be your last choice. So on and so forth.
NYC has this:
http://www7.gsb.columbia.edu/ms/financialeconomics
Its a 2 year Fin. Econ. degree.
questions on MSF:
1) CFA is 2.5 years at the very least. Then you need work experience to actually be called a CFA. Many MSF students come in with L1 complete or sign up for L1 while in the program. I know many MSF's with their CFA. No one is scared, they are really different beasts.
2) You do an MSF because you want a mini reset button. Most people talk about getting into a T10-15 MBA program as the ultimate goal, but tons of kids go to UG schools that don't even have solid F500 OCR. For them these main MSF programs are a huge step up in branding. Not only that it gives them a chance to redo their GPA, get better job placements than their UG, relocate to a new area, focus on school work, intern again, etc.
The MBA is still ideal, but the path to a top MBA is not easy. Think GPA + Work Experience + GMAT + EC's. Well if you went to a low ranked school, got a lower GPA, the odds of you getting top tier work experience and/or overcoming your low UG GPA are tough. Now suppose you go do an MSF, get into a well known firm and have a strong GPA. You just changed your career trajectory. This will increase your odds at a top MBA program and add substantial income over your lifetime.
that all sounds about right... as a CFA level 3 candidate (just wrote it 9 days ago) and top MBA applicant, was interested to know if i'm missing something here. thanks.
Yeah, not missing anything as of now. More schools are offering the degree though so it might become an MBA contender in the future. UT Austin just rolled out a program so I could see it competing with their MBA program for students with finance industry experience looking for a grad degree and not a 2 year vacation. As of right now it is mainly for younger students though.
oops... didn't mean to declare myself a "top MBA applicant"... meant to say i'm applying to top 10 programs this fall...
interesting on the MSF, especially in comparison to the CFA. I would think networks are comparable, MSF much faster, and CFA much cheaper
I think the CFA is much more in depth and regarded. The MSF is more flexible though and quicker to get. Some people like a classroom environment, some can handle self study. I'd say that if you have L2 complete you might just want to finish L3 and skip the MSF. Then again if you still can't break in or get a job the MSF will provide you with the alumni base, opportunity to intern and OCR.
Really a case by case basis. I get tons of emails regarding it and each case is unique.
Two tiers, that definitely makes comparisons very clear-cut. Luckily UF wasn't on my agenda with my not being a resident, and thanks for all of the insight.
One of the main things I'm trying to work around is where my partner will be attending med-school, per say - in either the Boston or NYC area.
In terms of OCR for those areas, I'd suppose if it ends up being Boston then BC is the obvious choice; but is there a similar front-runner in terms of NYC placement?
NYC really doesn't have a core MSF. I mean all of the MSF's you listed have NYC alumni and recruiting. I'd say the schools closer to the city have a location advantage. Villanova is 1.5 hours away and I know people who would go up and network every Thursday/Friday. You could do something similar with BC I'd imagine.
U of R has a NYC MSF program. Rochester has dropped in the MBA rankings, but they are still a decent MBA program.
How about CUNY MSF placement?
Columbia definitely looks like a nice program, and I've had a bit of experience with their CS program, but I'm just not sure about that option.
It seems disadvantageous to me that the program is two years, whereas I could pursue an MSF and be done in one year, paying half the tuition. Coming from a healthcare/ life-science background, the MSF is the path that I'm looking to take to become stronger in finance & have access to some OCR/alumni that would make it less difficult to ease into the field.
Money is quite valuable, but time even more so. Any opportunity to save time would be my first choice.
The Columbia program is much more of a PhD lite program than an MSF. Just take a look at the student profiles.
agree with TNA - i perked up when i heard about this program, then realized it sounds like an MSF on steroids, which is a terrible complement for anyone with a CFA charter
Crouther - you still haven't really established why you aren't going the MBA route. my fear is that you're going to do the MSF and then realize the exit opps are not what you hoped
Well, if I were to go for an MBA first, ideally I'd like to go to HBS. I'm 22 with 2 years work experience, much lower than their average student. The rest of my stats are above their average, but it seems in the MBA business that work experience is at a premium.
I feel like the MSF would give me a background in finance that I'm lacking as well as the ability to attain some sort of position that would help make me a more attractive MBA applicant.
Crouther, in general you're right about WE. HOWEVER, HBS is the Jerry Sandusky of MBA programs. If you've already taken the GMAT and done well, you should seriously consider applying to HBS this fall. What do you do know?
also the columbia program only took 10 students last year. it's just the first two years of the phd program being sold as a 100k package to 10 rich foreign kids
I started out in pharm research and switched to pharm sales. I'm sure that's a far cry from their traditional applicant.
I may go ahead and send in an app. I just don't want to be out of my league in terms of the difficulty. I mean, I'm sure I would be the best bio-chemist there; but that's irrelevant to marketing and finance.
MSF: Accepted by WUISL, Vanderbilt and Boston Colleges, which one should I choose? (Originally Posted: 02/10/2014)
I got accepted by my three target MSF programs, which one should I choose?
My near-term career objective is an i-banking analyst in NYC, which program will give me the best shot?
Thanks
Everything said by Vandy students on this page indicates insane NYC placements....
I've seen the official Vanderbilt placement stats and am incredibly impressed. It's between WUSTL and Vanderbilt for sure. Both place a lot of students in non NYC metro's though so keep that in mind.
Between WUSTL and Vandy... who gave you more money?
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