MSF to PhD
I am about to enter a solid MSF program this fall and am strongly considering pursuing a PhD the following year. Is this a common route, or am I SOL in the PhD route?
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Not common, finance PhDs are ultra competitive with small number of slots.
Heavily quantitative course - statistics, econometrics, mathematics are a good prep for PhD finance. And you should get very high GPA.
PhD accounting is less competitive and you can have overlap with PhD finance.
Anyways, I don't think this site is the place to ask. Just search for CVs of current PhD finance students and look at their backgrounds and talk with adcoms.
Literally every year, nearly every program, sends msf kids to PHD programs. I know like 4 Villanova msf to phds. Rochester has sent some people down that path.
It's not the most logical path, but it happens and can happen if you want it.
Thanks for replies! I already have a math BS with gpa >3.6, but wanted more finance before PhD. Hopefully that's enough math...
Need advice - Finding the right Pre-PhD MSF program? (Originally Posted: 07/09/2012)
Hello all,
I'm new to the forum. Not sure if this is the right board to pose this question in, but it seems to have the most traffic. I did a site search on this topic and picked up some important new information about MSF degrees. But I didn't see much pertaining to PhD routes..
My end-goal is to get my PhD and become a Finance professor at the best school I can. I majored in History at a small, but well-regarded, liberal arts school in the midwest. I maintained about a 3.3 GPA there. I haven't taken the GMAT yet, but have been getting practice scores in the mid 600's. As you could imagine, I didn't take many business or math courses, so I might need to knock out some pre-requisites online (or something?). I graduated two years ago and have been working in sales and marketing for the small family business ever since (Pulp and Paper Products).
Most of the discussion pertaining to MSF programs that I've seen on the boards has surrounded placement into IB's and things of that nature. I'm interested in placement into PhD programs. Maybe I'm in the wrong place here, but if anyone has any advice for me it'd be greatly, greatly appreciated.
Thanks! - Dave
***Here's a list of the MSF programs I've seen reccomended thus far (to jar your memory): MIT, Vanderbilt, Virginia (MS in Commerce, for liberal arts backgrounds), John's Hopkins, Washington University in St. Louis, Boston College, Boston University, UConn, Bentley, Brandeis, Florida, Tulane, Villanova, Northeastern, Fairfield, Pace, Hofstra...and overseas: LSE, Oxford (MSc in Financial Economics), Cambridge, Warwick, LBS, SSE, HEC, Bucconi, St. Gallen Imperial
If you are looking to do a PhD I would look outside of the list you posted. Many of those programs are set up to be a terminal degree. Every year people do leverage an MSF into a PhD track, but they usually go to other schools.
I'd look at Kansas, WVU, other large, Midwestern schools. I have a full list on my website. Maybe Auburn, U of Alabama, etc. I would talk with whomever heads up the finance dept and tell them your goals and plan. I'm sure you can set up something with them and use the MSF as sort of an entrance into an FT PhD program upon satisfactory completion.
TAN, I'm just going to PM you if that's alright...no need to bug the rest of the board with this
Msc Finance suitable for a PHD (Originally Posted: 01/08/2014)
Bump
I can't really answer your question, but: take the master's degree at the same school you'd like to go for your PhD (what my professor told me).
This is exactly right
Why?
I can't speak for job prospects and whatnot, but I can speak for the general student body (I've probably attended at least half a dozen MS Fin orientation sessions in the past year).
Most candidates are relatively young, and probably half are right out of undergrad. (There are a few exceptions, such as BC Carroll requiring work exp). Most did not study finance as an undergraduate. The older candidates (who are MBA eligible) are looking to get past the MBA fluff so to speak (and not take "marketing" or "ethics". They just want the technical financial knowledge. Depending on your age, perhaps look into MBA programs?
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PhD's in Europe are a different animal in the US from what I have heard. That being said, in the US at least, I know people who have done an MSF and then used that to jump off to a PhD program. It can be the same school you did your masters in or it can be another school. Typically every year there is at least one or two Villanova MSF's that go on to do a PhD. Off the top of my head we have one guy at Michigan St (his family is there) and another woman at FSU (two Nova professors got their PhD's there).
mphil finance at cambridge is good for PhD
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Not going too much into schools here but to be both set up for banking as well as PhD, I think a 2 year program is more suitable. It will give you the opportunity for an internship plus it will likely require a real thesis which is not always the case for 1 year programs. That way you can at least demonstrate for your PhD application (whenever it may be) that you are able to actually complete scientific work of some sort.
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I haven't - especially for top banks. It would at least have to be related (PE, maybe MBB consulting) but even that would be a lucky exception to the rule.
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but why does it matter if it is the same school for both degrees?
More knowledge in what? I don't think that will add much value. If you do a 2nd finance degree it just looks plain stupid and if you do something else (let's assume Strategy or so) it looks like you're not focused enough on banking. That's how I would personally think of it with a CV like that in front of me.
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Hard truth: any MSc that will give you an edge in a serious PhD program won't teach you anything useful for IBD and vice versa. Be aware that good finance PhD programs are extremely theoretical and look more like applied maths than anything else (which is why many of the best economists have backgrounds in maths/physics). Your LBO valuation skills will not help you the least bit in a PhD, and you will learn nothing like that there.
Given that you do not seem to be aware of this fact, I recommend that you have a serious look into what a PhD is before you decide to move your career into this direction. A good place to start would be the urch/testmagic forums (just google) - you will find that most of the discussions there revolve around questions like whether you can get into a good program if you've only taken two calculus classes but not done real analysis yet.
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In that case, I'd say forget the PhD for now and focus on maximizing your chances of getting an FT offer, for which there is plenty of advice on this site. Some day, you will have to make decisions, you cannot maximize your options forever. Welcome to the real world, this isn't college anymore.
A PhD takes far more pain than you seem to imagine and, in Finance, doesn't even improve your employment prospects (rather the opposite - I'd even say that it's typically NPV negative, by far). It's destined for the poor companions whose intrinsic intellectual desires won't let them enjoy life if they're not doing research and who are thus willing to ignore all those sensible warnings.
With all that being said, you don't have to bury the idea of doing a PhD altogether. You wouldn't be the only banker in London dreaming about doing a PhD, neither would you be the first one to actually take the leap (and be successful at it). Just make sure you know what you're doing and have your priorities set right.
PS: as you were mentioning LSE, take a look at their Finance & Econ program. As for preparing for a Finance PhD, it's as good as it gets. But better forget fast that I ever mentioned it ;)
Applying to a PhD. program with a MS already completed (Originally Posted: 10/13/2011)
I wasn't sure where to post this, so I was hoping somebody could help me out. My school, Emory, offers a 4 year BS/MS in Math and one in Math&CS, and I'm considering doing one of these. Unfortunately the Math department at Emory is only ranked like 63rd in the country and I haven't seen the CS dept ranked at all. Will completing one of these programs hurt me if I decide to apply to PhD. programs? I am also considering S&T and quant positions upon graduation. Would one of these 2 BS/MS programs be better than a straight math major or math and finance double major or math and cs double major?
Thanks
get involved in research ASAP. if you have a publication or two to your name you are in the running for any top program. also, make sure that your GPA is sterling and you have at least 750Q 750A on your GREs. you do have to make up some ground from your obscure college but it is not as bad as you think. if you hit the marks above and get good faculty reqs you will get accepted to at least one top-ranked program.
i just started a quant job. it was helpful that my adviser was one of the early rentech principals. i don't know if my degree pedigree mattered that much.
more like 800Q and 600+A for your GREs
they wont give a shit what your A score is on GRE for those programs, half of the kids in top schools (mit, princeton, stanford) can barely speak english (asians and indians). But yeah, you gotta kill your quant section. And emory is a good school, if you can maintain a good gpa, 3.7+, in a math/comp sci program you are golden.
So do you guys think I should pursue the BS/MS or not?
1) Rank doesn't matter. At college, you learn the same stuff and use the same text books for math classes. 2) Do Math&CS. It gives you WAY better chance to get a job. You can learn Finance by yourself. Finance degree is a joke anyway. So yeah, BS/MS in Math&CS is all you need.
Does it change any of this that the Undergrad B-school is ranked #3 in the nation?
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