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3/27/11

How many are there, do you think? Do you know any? Are they observant (pray in the office) or passive?

share your thoughts m8s

Comments (255)

3/28/11

no muslims at least in NYC, unless you want your office to blow up one day LOL

DEAR ADMIN, PLEASE STOP EDITING MY POSTS.

Financial Modeling

3/30/11
chubbybunny:

no muslims at least in NYC, unless you want your office to blow up one day LOL
DEAR ADMIN, PLEASE STOP EDITING MY POSTS.

Dude, I don't know if you just don't 'get it' or you are just trolling, but I actually started laught hysterically when I read this.

I don't care what someone believes, but I am curious how many mormons are on Wall Street.

Get busy living

3/27/11

Did you say pray in the office? You're joking right?

3/27/11

LOL @ chubbybunny, those types usually hang out in caves, not banks! gotta love capitalism :D
P.S. t'wasn't me who threw shit at you btw

@Antsman: No. Its a short (3-4 minute) ritual that can be done pretty much anywhere (exc. bathroom ofc), 5 times a day.

Greed is Good.

3/27/11

Wow, the ignorance of some people on this thread is disgusting. You're absolutely classless.

3/27/11

Just me that found it funny than?

Seriously though I wouldn't mind knowing the answer to this as well

3/27/11

I've met quite a few at higher levels, you'd be surprised. When I was interviewing for HF positions last summer, I met 5 who were either PMs or pretty high up at their funds. I don't know much about IB though, but I imagine its the same. As far as their praying habits, I didn't care to ask.

3/27/11

There are a bunch of Muslims. Check the halal carts.
Don't you remember the whole Mosque near Ground Zero fiasco?
It was meant for Wall Street Muslims.
People who want to pray pray. Some people only attend jum'ah.

  • Bulls make money. Bears make money. Pigs get slaughtered.
  • The harder you work, the luckier you become.
  • I believe in the "Golden Rule": the man with the gold rules.
3/27/11
Argonaut:

Regardless of what they taught you in jihad classes, no Muslims have been used for constructing wall street or any other street in America for that matter. Human bodies are soft and would compromise the structural integrity.

....

What the fuck are you smoking? Seems like some good shit. Pass it around if you don't have herpes or any other disease.

  • Bulls make money. Bears make money. Pigs get slaughtered.
  • The harder you work, the luckier you become.
  • I believe in the "Golden Rule": the man with the gold rules.
3/27/11
Ske7ch:
Argonaut:

Regardless of what they taught you in jihad classes, no Muslims have been used for constructing wall street or any other street in America for that matter. Human bodies are soft and would compromise the structural integrity.

....

What the fuck are you smoking? Seems like some good shit. Pass it around if you don't have herpes or any other disease.

You don't get it.

3/27/11
Ske7ch:

There are a bunch of Muslims. Check the halal carts.
Don't you remember the whole Mosque near Ground Zero fiasco?
It was meant for Wall Street Muslims.
People who want to pray pray. Some people only attend jum'ah.

Halal carts? this is new! I thought the whole Ground Zero thing was a publicity stunt by the imam, never imagined it being significantly tied with muslim bankers' interests.

Greed is Good.

3/27/11
konig:
Ske7ch:

There are a bunch of Muslims. Check the halal carts.
Don't you remember the whole Mosque near Ground Zero fiasco?
It was meant for Wall Street Muslims.
People who want to pray pray. Some people only attend jum'ah.

Halal carts? this is new! I thought the whole Ground Zero thing was a publicity stunt by the imam, never imagined it being significantly tied with muslim bankers' interests.

Far from it. It was a publicity stunt by the pastor/church leader in Florida.

They wanted to build a mosque for all the professionals who work around there.

  • Bulls make money. Bears make money. Pigs get slaughtered.
  • The harder you work, the luckier you become.
  • I believe in the "Golden Rule": the man with the gold rules.
3/27/11

Regardless of what they taught you in jihad classes, no Muslims have been used for constructing wall street or any other street in America for that matter. Human bodies are soft and would compromise the structural integrity.

More is good, all is better

3/27/11
Argonaut:

Regardless of what they taught you in jihad classes, no Muslims have been used for constructing wall street or any other street in America for that matter. Human bodies are soft and would compromise the structural integrity.

Ha, I laughed so hard when I read this. This is sooo funny. Quit your day job, you should work at the Apollo ...

3/27/11
monyet:
Argonaut:

Regardless of what they taught you in jihad classes, no Muslims have been used for constructing wall street or any other street in America for that matter. Human bodies are soft and would compromise the structural integrity.

Ha, I laughed so hard when I read this. This is sooo funny. Quit your day job, you should work at the Apollo ...

What, I'm not PC enough for SNL?

More is good, all is better

3/27/11
Argonaut:
monyet:
Argonaut:

Regardless of what they taught you in jihad classes, no Muslims have been used for constructing wall street or any other street in America for that matter. Human bodies are soft and would compromise the structural integrity.

Ha, I laughed so hard when I read this. This is sooo funny. Quit your day job, you should work at the Apollo ...

What, I'm not PC enough for SNL?

No, you're not smart enough for SNL.

3/27/11
monyet:
Argonaut:
monyet:
Argonaut:

Regardless of what they taught you in jihad classes, no Muslims have been used for constructing wall street or any other street in America for that matter. Human bodies are soft and would compromise the structural integrity.

Ha, I laughed so hard when I read this. This is sooo funny. Quit your day job, you should work at the Apollo ...

What, I'm not PC enough for SNL?

No, you're not smart enough for SNL.

Bam, straight for the jugular

Although I admit, I didn't realize SNL was such a think tank. Where do they recruit? Do you think if I network hard I could get an internship? What are the exit opps?

More is good, all is better

3/27/11
Argonaut:
monyet:
Argonaut:
monyet:
Argonaut:

Regardless of what they taught you in jihad classes, no Muslims have been used for constructing wall street or any other street in America for that matter. Human bodies are soft and would compromise the structural integrity.

Ha, I laughed so hard when I read this. This is sooo funny. Quit your day job, you should work at the Apollo ...

What, I'm not PC enough for SNL?

No, you're not smart enough for SNL.

Bam, straight for the jugular

Although I admit, I didn't realize SNL was such a think tank. Where do they recruit? Do you think if I network hard I could get an internship? What are the exit opps?

Hopefully you went to a tareget. Otherwise you can't get in.

No need to harass Argonaut for his attention to detail and for pointing out the OP's preposition error.

looking for that pick-me-up to power through an all-nighter?
3/27/11
<span class=keyword_link><a href=/finance-dictionary/what-is-london-interbank-offer-rate-libor rel=nofollow>LIBOR</a></span>:

Hopefully you went to a tareget. Otherwise you can't get in.

No need to harass Argonaut for his attention to detail and for pointing out the OP's preposition error.

I didn't go to Target, I went to Jared's!

But yes, you are right, isn't it funny a handful of them completely missed it? :)

More is good, all is better

3/27/11
Argonaut:
<span class=keyword_link><a href=/finance-dictionary/what-is-london-interbank-offer-rate-libor rel=nofollow>LIBOR</a></span>:

Hopefully you went to a tareget. Otherwise you can't get in.

No need to harass Argonaut for his attention to detail and for pointing out the OP's preposition error.

I didn't go to Target, I went to Jared's!

But yes, you are right, isn't it funny a handful of them completely missed it? :)

Ha I just got it

3/27/11
loki276:
Argonaut:
LIBOR:

Hopefully you went to a tareget. Otherwise you can't get in.

No need to harass Argonaut for his attention to detail and for pointing out the OP's preposition error.

I didn't go to Target, I went to Jared's!

But yes, you are right, isn't it funny a handful of them completely missed it? :)

Ha I just got it

just for you, I'm gonna explain the rest

Wall Street ----> Great Wall

it was alleged that the bodies of people who died building the Great Wall have been entombed in the wall or foundation, but that is false.

More is good, all is better

3/27/11
Argonaut:
loki276:
Argonaut:
LIBOR:

Hopefully you went to a tareget. Otherwise you can't get in.

No need to harass Argonaut for his attention to detail and for pointing out the OP's preposition error.

I didn't go to Target, I went to Jared's!

But yes, you are right, isn't it funny a handful of them completely missed it? :)

Ha I just got it

just for you, I'm gonna explain the rest

Wall Street ----> Great Wall

it was alleged that the bodies of people who died building the Great Wall have been entombed in the wall or foundation, but that is false.

I nearly tripped on a femur when I was hiking on the Great Wall.

J/K. Is this really "alleged" because I thought it was pretty certain? At least that's how it was presented when I was in China...which is actually odd because those silly Commies still pretend the Tiananmen Square massacre/protest never occurred.

Regards

"The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant, it's just that they know so much that isn't so."
- Ronald Reagan

3/28/11
cphbravo96:
Argonaut:
loki276:
Argonaut:
LIBOR:

Hopefully you went to a tareget. Otherwise you can't get in.

No need to harass Argonaut for his attention to detail and for pointing out the OP's preposition error.

I didn't go to Target, I went to Jared's!

But yes, you are right, isn't it funny a handful of them completely missed it? :)

Ha I just got it

just for you, I'm gonna explain the rest

Wall Street ----> Great Wall

it was alleged that the bodies of people who died building the Great Wall have been entombed in the wall or foundation, but that is false.

I nearly tripped on a femur when I was hiking on the Great Wall.

J/K. Is this really "alleged" because I thought it was pretty certain? At least that's how it was presented when I was in China...which is actually odd because those silly Commies still pretend the Tiananmen Square massacre/protest never occurred.

Regards

if you tripped on a femur, it must have not been entombed ...

it is alleged, because a human body does not distribute stress evenly, and when it decays it shrinks, so that would certainly sacrifice structural integrity. For defense purposes the wall couldn't be crumbling and collapsing.
However, a lot of people died constructing the great wall (same with pyramids), so there are plenty of bodies buried along the wall

More is good, all is better

3/27/11

Oh, maybe you are thinking of great WALL of China?
I can see how you could have easily made that mistake...

More is good, all is better

3/27/11

if by wall street you mean high finance. then yes. there are quite a few. usually in the quant fields, pricing and structuring.
arabs are good mathematicials...in terms of application.

About the praying, ill pretend you were joking. Nobody will accept that..it should not be accepted in public, and even less in a work environment. Religion does not belong on the trading floor.
And btw if you were a devout muslim, you would not be on wall street, unless they have islamic finance desks lol!!!!!

3/27/11

If you wanna work on Wall Street, you must abandon your religion. This goes for everyone, not just Muslims.

Men are so simple and so much inclined to obey immediate needs that a deceiver will never lack victims for his deceptions.

-Niccolo Machiavelli

3/27/11

No offence to Konig but fact you are asking about it shows you put religion as priority. Mate no one really cares or bothers about what you believe unless you start paddling it in front of everyone and getting into office politics about it(by that I meant praying in front of yours coworkers or leaving a pending model to go pray).

3/27/11
Inept Speculator:

No offence to Konig but fact you are asking about it shows you put religion as priority. Mate no one really cares or bothers about what you believe unless you start paddling it in front of everyone and getting into office politics about it(by that I meant praying in front of yours coworkers or leaving a pending model to go pray).

What I intended to ask was if they were present in the professional sense, that is all. Ofcourse, everyone is entitled to their views and talking politics is off-limits at work for sure. Just trying to get a sense of their numbers, thats all. Oh, and the praying bit, I meant somewhere private, like a conference room or a private phone room. Just a thought.

I wonder though, would I be at any disadvantage for my religious beliefs (you couldnt tell if you saw me, but you'd know from my name) in terms of recruiting?

Greed is Good.

3/27/11

I bet if you look hard enough you can find a Muslim-run boutique somewhere in NYC.

3/27/11

If we didn't have religion the World would be a far better place, sigh....

3/27/11

I'll make sure not to get involved in any discussions regarding politics, as I usually do when Im abroad :) , people usually end up on the wrong side of the "do you like me?" spectrum!

@Patrick Bateman: "arabs are good mathematicials...in terms of application."
not all arabs are muslims, by the way. There are many yemenite jews, for example.
Care to expand on what you meant by "in terms of application"?

lol why wouldnt I be able to work at a bank (IBD)? somebody must have misinformed you brother

@Argonauts: Sorry for my grammar mistake, sir ;)
I hope you werent serious about jihad classes though...
the teachers are on strike 'cause we cut their bonuses LOL this is nonesense lad, we live quite a normal life (minus the alcohol, non-kosher food ofcourse, haha)

Greed is Good.

3/27/11
konig:

@Argonauts: Sorry for my grammar mistake, sir ;)
I hope you werent serious about jihad classes though...
the teachers are on strike 'cause we cut their bonuses LOL this is nonesense lad, we live quite a normal life (minus the alcohol, non-kosher food ofcourse, haha)

it was a joke. I hope you are too smart to give away your life just to line royalty's and clerics' pockets.

More is good, all is better

3/28/11

double post....

3/28/11
konig:

@ANT: I'll make sure not to get involved in any discussions regarding politics, as I usually do when Im abroad :) , people usually end up on the wrong side of the "do you like me?" spectrum!

@Patrick Bateman: "arabs are good mathematicials...in terms of application."
not all arabs are muslims, by the way. There are many yemenite jews, for example.
Care to expand on what you meant by "in terms of application"?

lol why wouldnt I be able to work at a bank (IBD)? somebody must have misinformed you brother

@Argonauts: Sorry for my grammar mistake, sir ;)

I hope you werent serious about jihad classes though...
the teachers are on strike 'cause we cut their bonuses LOL this is nonesense lad, we live quite a normal life (minus the alcohol, non-kosher food ofcourse, haha)

i am a catholic arab and i am good at math. i dont know if arabs in general are good at math, BUT i think westerns in general aren't good at math

3/29/11
konig:

@ANT: I'll make sure not to get involved in any discussions regarding politics, as I usually do when Im abroad :) , people usually end up on the wrong side of the "do you like me?" spectrum!

@Patrick Bateman: "arabs are good mathematicials...in terms of application."
not all arabs are muslims, by the way. There are many yemenite jews, for example.
Care to expand on what you meant by "in terms of application"?

lol why wouldnt I be able to work at a bank (IBD)? somebody must have misinformed you brother

@Argonauts: Sorry for my grammar mistake, sir ;)
I hope you werent serious about jihad classes though...
the teachers are on strike 'cause we cut their bonuses LOL this is nonesense lad, we live quite a normal life (minus the alcohol, non-kosher food ofcourse, haha)

ok buddy, i dont give a crap about kopts, maronites and other shit.
you would not be able to work on wall streeet and pray in front of your colleagues...id be surpised.
by application, im saying as end-users. rarely do we see muslims in developer roles...mostly asians, eastern europeans (my experience) and other nerds

3/30/11
Batrick Pateman:
konig:

@ANT: I'll make sure not to get involved in any discussions regarding politics, as I usually do when Im abroad :) , people usually end up on the wrong side of the "do you like me?" spectrum!

@Patrick Bateman: "arabs are good mathematicials...in terms of application."
not all arabs are muslims, by the way. There are many yemenite jews, for example.
Care to expand on what you meant by "in terms of application"?

lol why wouldnt I be able to work at a bank (IBD)? somebody must have misinformed you brother

@Argonauts: Sorry for my grammar mistake, sir ;)
I hope you werent serious about jihad classes though...
the teachers are on strike 'cause we cut their bonuses LOL this is nonesense lad, we live quite a normal life (minus the alcohol, non-kosher food ofcourse, haha)

ok buddy, i dont give a crap about kopts, maronites and other shit.
you would not be able to work on wall streeet and pray in front of your colleagues...id be surpised.
by application, im saying as end-users. rarely do we see muslims in developer roles...mostly asians, eastern europeans (my experience) and other nerds

LOL

islam is a religion, not an ethnicity (Asian, Eastern European, etc.). There are many Asian and Eastern European muslims.

Greed is Good.

3/27/11

That's what I eventually hope to do, Durham had an MSF in Islamic finance which I am hoping to do. However saying that I would not want to live in Saudi Arabia, their rules are fucked at best with the leaders even more so. Would love to get to Dubai but prefer to stay in London

3/27/11

Konig dude, if you plan to work on WS, how will you deal with all those situations when you'll have to bang strippers, prostitutes, etc? At least according to Inside Job you will...

3/28/11
the_red_baron:

Konig dude, if you plan to work on WS, how will you deal with all those situations when you'll have to bang strippers, prostitutes, etc? At least according to Inside Job you will...

Whether I'm a muslim or not, those things don't line up with my values or how I was raised.

Greed is Good.

3/27/11

Are you kidding me? Companies don't care if you worship the sun, when you come to work its all about one thing can you bring in the all mighty dollar. Thats it. No one will ask if you are a rainmaker, but if you aren't a rainmaker they will get rid of you even if you are a WASP.

The answer to your question is 1) network 2) get involved 3) beef up your resume 4) repeat -happypantsmcgee

WSO is not your personal search function.

3/28/11
blackfinancier:

Are you kidding me? Companies don't care if you worship the sun, when you come to work its all about one thing can you bring in the all mighty dollar. Thats it. No one will ask if you are a rainmaker, but if you aren't a rainmaker they will get rid of you even if you are a WASP.

That's really comforting to hear. I just hope that degree of meritocracy really exists

Greed is Good.

3/27/11

There was an article in WSJ or NYT about prayer room for Muslims at the old WTC - am sure people do it but you need to ask, orthodox jews also pray privately inside banks. I had a lunch recently with a senior hedge fund guy and he had this mark on his forehead that indicates he prays on regular basis. Get a job and then ask around for where people pray.

3/27/11
ILOVENYGUY:

There was an article in WSJ or NYT about prayer room for Muslims at the old WTC - am sure people do it but you need to ask, orthodox jews also pray privately inside banks. I had a lunch recently with a senior hedge fund guy and he had this mark on his forehead that indicates he prays on regular basis. Get a job and then ask around for where people pray.

Very observant of you.

  • Bulls make money. Bears make money. Pigs get slaughtered.
  • The harder you work, the luckier you become.
  • I believe in the "Golden Rule": the man with the gold rules.
3/27/11
ILOVENYGUY:

There was an article in WSJ or NYT about prayer room for Muslims at the old WTC - am sure people do it but you need to ask, orthodox jews also pray privately inside banks. I had a lunch recently with a senior hedge fund guy and he had this mark on his forehead that indicates he prays on regular basis. Get a job and then ask around for where people pray.

Was it a transposed imprint of the letters "ELBIB"??

Regards

"The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant, it's just that they know so much that isn't so."
- Ronald Reagan

3/28/11

Honestly, I don't understand how a muslim 'could' be allowed to work in an industry that is so very Jewish, and whose foundations involve monetary interest.... Goldman, Lehmans, Bear, Rothschild, Lazard, KKR, Blackstone, Soros, Stevie Cohen... That's pretty Jewish. Aren't Muslims supposed to stay away from Kafirs and not do business with them?

Its kinda like a Jewish guy going to work in a pork factory....

3/28/11
newbie2banking:

Honestly, I don't understand how a muslim 'could' be allowed to work in an industry that is so very Jewish, and whose foundations involve monetary interest.... Goldman, Lehmans, Bear, Rothschild, Lazard, KKR, Blackstone, Soros, Stevie Cohen... That's pretty Jewish. Aren't Muslims supposed to stay away from Kafirs and not do business with them?

Its kinda like a Jewish guy going to work in a pork factory....

1) Muslims, Jews, and Christians lived fairly well with each other and did business/research together on a regular basis. It's after the crusades that things got bad, but then returned to normal up until the Palestine-Israel issue blew up (no pun intended)

2) Working with "kafirs", as you put it, is not "haram". Neither is marrying them, as a matter of fact. I'm not involved in any of the lending, I'm safe. I asked a fairly moderate imam, and he said places like Goldman are fine as long as Im not directly involved with interest.

-Soros Fund Management's COO is an arab muslim, Abbas Zuaiter.

-Goldman Sachs Asia (exc. Japan) Co-President (Who happens to be a partner and member of the global management committee), Yusuf Alireza, is a muslim.

-I just remembered a Morgan Stanley MD who was head of IB for Africa&the Middle East

-Theres this other Goldman MD who is a muslim (went to the same highschool as I did! pretty neat)

Just 4 of the many in high finance I guess.

Greed is Good.

3/28/11
konig:
newbie2banking:

Honestly, I don't understand how a muslim 'could' be allowed to work in an industry that is so very Jewish, and whose foundations involve monetary interest.... Goldman, Lehmans, Bear, Rothschild, Lazard, KKR, Blackstone, Soros, Stevie Cohen... That's pretty Jewish. Aren't Muslims supposed to stay away from Kafirs and not do business with them?

Its kinda like a Jewish guy going to work in a pork factory....

1) Muslims, Jews, and Christians lived fairly well with each other and did business/research together on a regular basis. It's after the crusades that things got bad, but then returned to normal up until the Palestine-Israel issue blew up (no pun intended)

2) Working with "kafirs", as you put it, is not "haram". Neither is marrying them, as a matter of fact. I'm not involved in any of the lending, I'm safe. I asked a fairly moderate imam, and he said places like Goldman are fine as long as Im not directly involved with interest.

-Soros Fund Management's COO is an arab muslim, Abbas Zuaiter.

-Goldman Sachs Asia (exc. Japan) Co-President (Who happens to be a partner and member of the global management committee), Yusuf Alireza, is a muslim.

-I just remembered a Morgan Stanley MD who was head of IB for Africa&the Middle East

-Theres this other Goldman MD who is a muslim (went to the same highschool as I did! pretty neat)

Just 4 of the many in high finance I guess.

My guess is you asked the right Imam....

Its very nice that 'Jewish' institutions have muslims on exec boards - I'd be interested if anyone knows of the reverse, i.e. where Jews are on the boards of Islamic institutions/funds?

3/28/11
newbie2banking:
konig:
newbie2banking:

Honestly, I don't understand how a muslim 'could' be allowed to work in an industry that is so very Jewish, and whose foundations involve monetary interest.... Goldman, Lehmans, Bear, Rothschild, Lazard, KKR, Blackstone, Soros, Stevie Cohen... That's pretty Jewish. Aren't Muslims supposed to stay away from Kafirs and not do business with them?

Its kinda like a Jewish guy going to work in a pork factory....

1) Muslims, Jews, and Christians lived fairly well with each other and did business/research together on a regular basis. It's after the crusades that things got bad, but then returned to normal up until the Palestine-Israel issue blew up (no pun intended)

2) Working with "kafirs", as you put it, is not "haram". Neither is marrying them, as a matter of fact. I'm not involved in any of the lending, I'm safe. I asked a fairly moderate imam, and he said places like Goldman are fine as long as Im not directly involved with interest.

-Soros Fund Management's COO is an arab muslim, Abbas Zuaiter.

-Goldman Sachs Asia (exc. Japan) Co-President (Who happens to be a partner and member of the global management committee), Yusuf Alireza, is a muslim.

-I just remembered a Morgan Stanley MD who was head of IB for Africa&the Middle East

-Theres this other Goldman MD who is a muslim (went to the same highschool as I did! pretty neat)

Just 4 of the many in high finance I guess.

My guess is you asked the right Imam....

Its very nice that 'Jewish' institutions have muslims on exec boards - I'd be interested if anyone knows of the reverse, i.e. where Jews are on the boards of Islamic institutions/funds?

I asked a knowledgable imam. Not some attention-seeking whore (the only type people see in the news).

What do you mean "Jewish"? The majority of the firms that were mentioned previously are publicly listed companies.

Yes, there are jews on boards of islamic institutions. I know a Weinberg who headed Juffali's entire business in the 1980s-90s (not sure of the dates). He's (Juffali) a Saudi billionaire. Ahmed Baeshen had a jewish COO, cant recall his surname though. One of NCB's boardmembers (he's probably retired by now) is a fantastic gentleman with the surname Cohen, although the last I heard from him was in NCB's pre-sell out (I bet he left cause pay went from a bit more than wall street to slightly less...NCB is not a partnership anymore, sadly). Bugshan and Bin Laden had a few jewish directors if I recall correctly.Those are the ones I can recall at the moment, but Im sure there are many (and that's if you dont include jewish doctors and surgeons who come here for the awesome tax shelter...lol).

Greed is Good.

3/28/11

I know a Muslim in tech support...and sometimes he puts me on hold when I have an issue and he can't figure it out...maybe he prays during that hold time, idk

3/28/11

We need to stop selling you fuckers OIL; I think the fumes are making some of you kids delusional-- then we'll talk about if MUSLIMS should work on WALL STREET.

3/28/11
Eyez:

We need to stop selling you fuckers OIL; I think the fumes are making some of you kids delusional-- then we'll talk about if MUSLIMS should work on WALL STREET.

Umm and then you fuckers would have no money. I think the money is making you kids delusional...see what I did there.

The answer to your question is 1) network 2) get involved 3) beef up your resume 4) repeat -happypantsmcgee

WSO is not your personal search function.

3/28/11

Awwwwwww, I see what you did there!

3/28/11

@blackfinancier

Are you retarded? What does that have to do with MUSLIMS on Wall street? Everyone gets delusional over a little money. What's your point? Are you still not buying our liquefied dinosaur bones?

Y/ou failed to see the connection that MUSLIMS are an intergal part to trade (Remember back in the day? When we had quality products and the Jews decided to middle man for a premia?)

If we are delusional for having business models/an actual product that generate profit on a consistent basis-- Then you guys are completely sane for running institutions to the ground and making your kids, kids, kids have to pay for the damages.

Fair?

Thought so.

Eyez

3/28/11
Eyez:

@blackfinancier

Are you retarded? What does that have to do with MUSLIMS on Wall street? Everyone gets delusional over a little money. What's your point? Are you still not buying our liquefied dinosaur bones?

Y/ou failed to see the connection that MUSLIMS are an intergal part to trade (Remember back in the day? When we had quality products and the Jews decided to middle man for a premia?)

If we are delusional for having business models/an actual product that generate profit on a consistent basis-- Then you guys are completely sane for running institutions to the ground and making your kids, kids, kids have to pay for the damages.

Fair?

Thought so.

Eyez

it was written to show how stupid what you wrote is bottom line is without us buying oil from muslim countries...wouldn't have much source of income...

The answer to your question is 1) network 2) get involved 3) beef up your resume 4) repeat -happypantsmcgee

WSO is not your personal search function.

3/28/11

^^^In before the shitstorm.

3/28/11

Violence exists everywhere.

One can equally focus on the "bad" of other nations and come to similar conclusions. " This is 2011 "

Eyez

3/28/11

Are you seriously going to take a Muslim into your office?

Maybe if you monkeys read the news, you probably heard of 9/11... And about the Muslim dude who was about to detonate a taxi filled with C4 at times square, but which was fortunately detected by civilians.

There is no way in hell I would allow a Muslim into any of the major financial buildings in NYC.. maybe Chicago or LA but NOT NYC. Heck, I'd rather take a kid from a shitty non-target school than take a Muslim. I know this is just a forum but have some sense people. Jeez

3/29/11
chubbybunny:

Are you seriously going to take a Muslim into your office?

Maybe if you monkeys read the news, you probably heard of 9/11... And about the Muslim dude who was about to detonate a taxi filled with C4 at times square, but which was fortunately detected by civilians.

There is no way in hell I would allow a Muslim into any of the major financial buildings in NYC.. maybe Chicago or LA but NOT NYC. Heck, I'd rather take a kid from a shitty non-target school than take a Muslim. I know this is just a forum but have some sense people. Jeez

thanks for the kind words chubby.

Im quite exhausted. I'll let Islam speak for itself.

"If thou dost stretch thy hand against me, to slay me, it is not for me to stretch my hand against thee to slay thee: for I do fear God, the cherisher of the worlds. (The Noble Quran, 5:28)"

"God does not forbid you from showing kindness and dealing justly with those who have not fought you about religion and have not driven you out of your homes. God loves just dealers. (The Noble Quran, 60:8)"

"Say : O ye that reject Faith! I worship not that which ye worship, Nor will ye worship that which I worship. And I will not worship that which ye have been wont to worship, Nor will ye worship that which I worship. To you be your Way, and to me mine. (The Noble Quran, 109:1-6)"

:)

Greed is Good.

4/2/11
chubbybunny:

Are you seriously going to take a Muslim into your office?

Maybe if you monkeys read the news, you probably heard of 9/11... And about the Muslim dude who was about to detonate a taxi filled with C4 at times square, but which was fortunately detected by civilians.

There is no way in hell I would allow a Muslim into any of the major financial buildings in NYC.. maybe Chicago or LA but NOT NYC. Heck, I'd rather take a kid from a shitty non-target school than take a Muslim. I know this is just a forum but have some sense people. Jeez

"And about the Muslim dude who was about to detonate a taxi filled with C4 at times square, but which was fortunately detected by civilians"

It was actually detected by another muslim.

Financial Modeling

3/28/11

correct me if i'm wrong, but don't christians and jews also have laws against "usury" in religious texts? didn't the concept of Islamic Finance originate somewhere in the Torah/Old Testament?

indians are over-represented on wall street, and a substantial portion of indians are muslims, so yes there are muslims on wall street (not just indians). they're just normal fucking people trying to make money like the rest of us. frankly, i'm not understanding how this thread moved to the topic of terrorism.

Money Never Sleeps? More like Money Never SUCKS amirite?!?!?!?

3/29/11
sayandarula:

correct me if i'm wrong, but don't christians and jews also have laws against "usury" in religious texts? didn't the concept of Islamic Finance originate somewhere in the Torah/Old Testament?

indians are over-represented on wall street, and a substantial portion of indians are muslims, so yes there are muslims on wall street (not just indians). they're just normal fucking people trying to make money like the rest of us. frankly, i'm not understanding how this thread moved to the topic of terrorism.

Judaism, Christianity, and Islam share the same core beliefs. The arabic word for usury, Riba, originates from the hebrew word "ribbit"

The early Christian Church, for reasons connected to the New Testament, declared that any usury was against divine law, preventing pious, and outwardly pious, Christians from using capital for mercantile purposes; in 1179, Pope Alexander III excommunicated usurers...... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Christus_austrei...
^ Jesus (or Isa, peace be upon him, as he is called in Islam) driving usurers out of the temple

In Exodus and Deuteronomy it is clear that it would be acceptable to charge interest on any loan to a non-Jew, but not acceptable to charge interest to other jews.

Greed is Good.

3/29/11

This thread makes me so glad to be atheist

3/29/11

Yep accoring their religion it is illegal to charge any interests of money loan and stuff like that, so I wonder how they can work in a place like Wallstreet

3/29/11

I dont know how relevent this is, but I worked with an islamic private equity shop looking to acquire a portfolio of assets. They werent allowed to purchase a building where BofA was the majority tenant. Seems like if that is not allowed, working there (or at any bank) would be seen as even worse. are there different degrees of Sharia or something?

3/29/11

Islam in it's current form is a pretty nasty religion - separate church and state (mosque and state) go through enlightenment, accept people of other religions and views as equals and then I won't be wary of you

3/29/11
ILOVENYGUY:

Islam in it's current form is a pretty nasty religion - separate church and state (mosque and state) go through enlightenment, accept people of other religions and views as equals and then I won't be wary of you

disagree. there are groups of muslims all over the world who are tolerant towards people of other religions, believe in equal rights for women, and are socially liberal. if you don't believe me, then i suggest doing some research on suffism and its adherents.

the problem is that muslims acting like good people doesn't make interesting news. our perceptions of islam and muslims are skewed by so many reports of a small group of assholes blowing themselves up or stoning women.

Money Never Sleeps? More like Money Never SUCKS amirite?!?!?!?

3/29/11

And yes I do get the fact that many Muslims are tolerant reasonable people, but the crazy violent ones seem to be all too many in numbers relative to other major religions

3/29/11

Oh I am sorry, that hole in the ground in downtown manhattan was made by chanting greek monks? Yeah, you are right people of all religions have been blowing stuff up worldwide in the past decade - I am not saying that Islam is a bad religion - at one point it was the most creative and tolerant culture on earth - but there is something rotten going on and a complete lack of public acknowledgment that may be something is wrong with the way things are developing inside Islam bugs me, bugs me a lot - always a righteous victim never a perpetrator - I read too

3/30/11
ILOVENYGUY:

Oh I am sorry, that hole in the ground in downtown manhattan was made by chanting greek monks? Yeah, you are right people of all religions have been blowing stuff up worldwide in the past decade - I am not saying that Islam is a bad religion - at one point it was the most creative and tolerant culture on earth - but there is something rotten going on and a complete lack of public acknowledgment that may be something is wrong with the way things are developing inside Islam bugs me, bugs me a lot - always a righteous victim never a perpetrator - I read too

So the problem isnt the integration of state and religion, because that's how it was back in the golden ages. The problem is the handful of dirty bastards (AlQaeda/Taliban) that keep giving us a bad name.

Greed is Good.

3/29/11

Assaults: 0.178098 per 1,000 people
Burglaries: 0.000416383 per 1,000 people
Rapes: 0.00329321 per 1,000 people
Population: approximately 30 million
Canada:
Assaults: 7.11834 per 1,000 people
Burglaries: 8.94425 per 1,000 people
Rapes: 0.733089 per 1,000 people
Population: approximately 33.1 million people

So in Canada you are 39X more likely to get assaulted, 22,350X more likely to get robbed, 223X more likely to get raped than in Saudi Arabia, wow I would love to see those stats compared to the US, you can pretty much multiply all those numbers by a 100. You should mention that in Saudi Arabia you are probably 10X more likely to be attacked by a terrorist.

I know that there are some reporting of crime discrepencies in Saudi Arabia (like women who get raped may not say anything) but even then the numbers speak for themselves lol.

3/30/11
dec-jun-jun:

Assaults: 0.178098 per 1,000 people
Burglaries: 0.000416383 per 1,000 people
Rapes: 0.00329321 per 1,000 people
Population: approximately 30 million
Canada:
Assaults: 7.11834 per 1,000 people
Burglaries: 8.94425 per 1,000 people
Rapes: 0.733089 per 1,000 people
Population: approximately 33.1 million people

So in Canada you are 39X more likely to get assaulted, 22,350X more likely to get robbed, 223X more likely to get raped than in Saudi Arabia, wow I would love to see those stats compared to the US, you can pretty much multiply all those numbers by a 100. You should mention that in Saudi Arabia you are probably 10X more likely to be attacked by a terrorist.

I know that there are some reporting of crime discrepencies in Saudi Arabia (like women who get raped may not say anything) but even then the numbers speak for themselves lol.

It wouldnt be fair comparing it to the US since its population is no where near Saudi's or Canada's.

haha the last terrorist attack was in 2004, i think. Some American contractor went to the ghetto of Riyadh (think Jamaica Queens) and got kidnapped (same thing woulda happen to him in the ghettos of Rio in brazil, dont you think?)

only 45% or 63% of women in Canada, i believe, report rapes.

Greed is Good.

3/30/11
dec-jun-jun:

Assaults: 0.178098 per 1,000 people
Burglaries: 0.000416383 per 1,000 people
Rapes: 0.00329321 per 1,000 people
Population: approximately 30 million
Canada:
Assaults: 7.11834 per 1,000 people
Burglaries: 8.94425 per 1,000 people
Rapes: 0.733089 per 1,000 people
Population: approximately 33.1 million people

So in Canada you are 39X more likely to get assaulted, 22,350X more likely to get robbed, 223X more likely to get raped than in Saudi Arabia, wow I would love to see those stats compared to the US, you can pretty much multiply all those numbers by a 100. You should mention that in Saudi Arabia you are probably 10X more likely to be attacked by a terrorist.

I know that there are some reporting of crime discrepencies in Saudi Arabia (like women who get raped may not say anything) but even then the numbers speak for themselves lol.

I am pretty sure Ant is arguing a non Muslim, i.e. caucasion, going to ME, not local citizens. So these numbers are moot.

3/30/11

There are mormons on wall street.... why not muslims?

3/30/11

Again, I would like to clearify that "muslim" is not an ethnicity (like caucasian). There are many caucasian muslims.

These numbers represent the crime rate in Saudi Arabia. Its even lower in Bahrain, Qatar, and the UAE.

Arguing that a non-Muslim caucasian (or any person for that matter) going to Iraq or Israel is very dangerous, then I don't oppose his views. That's true, because they're war zones.

If he thinks its dangerous to visit the GCC (not including Yemen, ofcourse), I think he should pay a visit and see what it's really like. You are all more than welcome to visit and it'll be quite an honor to be your host!

Greed is Good.

3/30/11
konig:

If ANT is arguing that a non-Muslim caucasian (or any person for that matter) going to Iraq or Israel is very dangerous, then I don't oppose his views. That's true, because they're war zones.

This isn't war: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-eas... just terrorism. If Israel went to war with the Palestinians, it would all be over very quickly.

The family were asleep!

3/30/11

the numbers of crime in Saudi Arabia are lower because if you get caught your hand gets cut off? What kind of justice is that...

The answer to your question is 1) network 2) get involved 3) beef up your resume 4) repeat -happypantsmcgee

WSO is not your personal search function.

3/31/11
blackfinancier:

the numbers of crime in Saudi Arabia are lower because if you get caught your hand gets cut off? What kind of justice is that...

From what I recall, a thief's left hand is amputated after 3 non-petty thefts (petty: food, non-petty: money, IDs,etc.).

It's this country's way, friend. Every country has its own ways.

Greed is Good.

3/31/11
konig:
blackfinancier:

the numbers of crime in Saudi Arabia are lower because if you get caught your hand gets cut off? What kind of justice is that...

From what I recall, a thief's left hand is amputated after 3 non-petty thefts (petty: food, non-petty: money, IDs,etc.).

It's this country's way, friend. Every country has its own ways.

Still the point is your end gets cut off... then he can't work even if he wanted to change his life? Then what?

The answer to your question is 1) network 2) get involved 3) beef up your resume 4) repeat -happypantsmcgee

WSO is not your personal search function.

3/31/11
blackfinancier:
konig:
blackfinancier:

the numbers of crime in Saudi Arabia are lower because if you get caught your hand gets cut off? What kind of justice is that...

From what I recall, a thief's left hand is amputated after 3 non-petty thefts (petty: food, non-petty: money, IDs,etc.).

It's this country's way, friend. Every country has its own ways.

Still the point is your end gets cut off... then he can't work even if he wanted to change his life? Then what?

I guess its similar to the 3 strike rule then. That would be an interesting trade off, spend your life in jail for 3 felonies or lose an arm, we should start a new topic to see what people would choose.

3/31/11
dec-jun-jun:
blackfinancier:
konig:
blackfinancier:

the numbers of crime in Saudi Arabia are lower because if you get caught your hand gets cut off? What kind of justice is that...

From what I recall, a thief's left hand is amputated after 3 non-petty thefts (petty: food, non-petty: money, IDs,etc.).

It's this country's way, friend. Every country has its own ways.

Still the point is your end gets cut off... then he can't work even if he wanted to change his life? Then what?

I guess its similar to the 3 strike rule then. That would be an interesting trade off, spend your life in jail for 3 felonies or lose an arm, we should start a new topic to see what people would choose.

Hell, I like the idea of cutting a hand off. I also like the idea of caining. WE need some meaningful punishment here in the USA! While we're at it, no life in prison and no long waits for executions. You have a 6 month period and if you're still found guilty if/when you get the appeal, bam, bullet to the face.

3/30/11

There is a bunch of Muslims at banks at senior levels, just to name a few:

Karim Assef - Global Head of Financial Sponsors BAML
Zubaid Ahmad - Vice Chairman Citi IBD (Ex COO of JP Banking and Head of JPM Sponsors)
Mahmoud Mamdani - Vice Chairman of Investment Banking at MS
Suhail Sheikh - MD financial sponsors BAML
Shakil Ahmed - Global head of trading and quant strategies at Citi (Ran MS prop trading for 8 years)
Ihsan Essaid - Partner at PWP
Amr Nosseir - Partner at PWP
Ali Almakky - COO of BAML EMEA
Eddy Zuitar - COO of Soros
Ahmad Zuitar - Sr. MD & Portfolio Manager at Soros
Mohamed A. El-Erian - CEO of PIMCO
Nemir A. Kirdar - Chairman and CEO of Investcorp

3/30/11

Dude - I've been to Saudi - it sucks! But it exemplifies the problem - you meet with senior guys and they are educated and cool, they will have a drink now and then, most have gone to western schools, many dated western women - and as I said very educated smart guys who will do business with christians, Jews, Hindus, women... But then same guys will quietly give money to some ultra conservative charity or keep quiet when imams say whatever silly stuff they say

3/30/11

All I have to say is that the way Islam is supposed to be is not how it is portrayed in the world today. There is nothing wrong with the religion, but rather those practicing it.

Islam is not just a religion, it's a way of life. The only way to understand the stuff is to directly go to the source: The Quran. Sure you guys can debate all you want with statistics, facts, etc, but to get the truth go to the source.

3/31/11
Getgo:

All I have to say is that the way Islam is supposed to be is not how it is portrayed in the world today. There is nothing wrong with the religion, but rather those practicing it.

Islam is not just a religion, it's a way of life. The only way to understand the stuff is to directly go to the source: The Quran. Sure you guys can debate all you want with statistics, facts, etc, but to get the truth go to the source.

Essentially the point im trying to get across ^

thanks!

Greed is Good.

3/30/11

Konig, if you are going to talk statistics, why don't you also list the number of stonings, beatings, and maimings?

And number of rapings would clearly be under-reported, this is a good example why: http://www.hrw.org/en/news/2007/11/15/saudi-arabia...

More is good, all is better

3/31/11
Argonaut:

Konig, if you are going to talk statistics, why don't you also list the number of stonings, beatings, and maimings?

And number of rapings would clearly be under-reported, this is a good example why: http://www.hrw.org/en/news/2007/11/15/saudi-arabia...

Again, people usually leave out the entire story and focus on the one ugly part. The girl was lashed for being in complete seclusion with non-relative (father, uncle,etc.) males. She had the raping part coming.

You dont seem to share the other stories of women who werent lashed for being raped (and the convicted rapists executed).

Greed is Good.

4/1/11
konig:
Argonaut:

Konig, if you are going to talk statistics, why don't you also list the number of stonings, beatings, and maimings?

And number of rapings would clearly be under-reported, this is a good example why: http://www.hrw.org/en/news/2007/11/15/saudi-arabia...

Again, people usually leave out the entire story and focus on the one ugly part. The girl was lashed for being in complete seclusion with non-relative (father, uncle,etc.) males. She had the raping part coming.

You dont seem to share the other stories of women who werent lashed for being raped (and the convicted rapists executed).

I'm gonna ignore the "had the raping part coming", and point out that she didn't get raped by the man she was with.
A gang attacked them and raped BOTH.
However the judges chose to concentrate that she was with a man alone.

More is good, all is better

3/31/11

I didn't read the whole thread - the opening responses were pretty disgusting and frankly, if that is what you think, then you better stick with doing deals with mid-market domestic clients only....

Throughout the industry there are a lot of muslims. In London, across trading and corporate finance, there are plenty of muslims.

I am an observant muslim - every bank in London has a quiet room / contemplation room and I do go and pray (usually manage all 5 prayers). I work in a sector team and try to avoid debt deals (happily do M&A and ECM stuff without having a huge moral issue).

I have several friends at other BBs across London and broader geographies who are like me. I have always found that finance is one of the most open-minded fields. Again therefore the guys making comments about blowing up should grow up.

From the ghetto....

3/31/11
Tier2Sta:

I didn't read the whole thread - the opening responses were pretty disgusting and frankly, if that is what you think, then you better stick with doing deals with mid-market domestic clients only....

Throughout the industry there are a lot of muslims. In London, across trading and corporate finance, there are plenty of muslims.

I am an observant muslim - every bank in London has a quiet room / contemplation room and I do go and pray (usually manage all 5 prayers). I work in a sector team and try to avoid debt deals (happily do M&A and ECM stuff without having a huge moral issue).

I have several friends at other BBs across London and broader geographies who are like me. I have always found that finance is one of the most open-minded fields. Again therefore the guys making comments about blowing up should grow up.

+1 imaginary SB (sorry, broke :D )

Greed is Good.

3/31/11

Whoa did I just read that? Girl had rape coming? Fuck me and you wonder why muslims have a bad name? Btw I am a muslim too so don't accuse me of racism.

3/31/11
loki276:

Whoa did I just read that? Girl had rape coming? Fuck me and you wonder why muslims have a bad name? Btw I am a muslim too so don't accuse me of racism.

She was with 3 or 4 drug addicts. What did you expect? A night on the town? A stroll on the beach? get serious m8

Greed is Good.

4/1/11
konig:
loki276:

Whoa did I just read that? Girl had rape coming? Fuck me and you wonder why muslims have a bad name? Btw I am a muslim too so don't accuse me of racism.

She was with 3 or 4 drug addicts. What did you expect? A night on the town? A stroll on the beach? get serious m8

The young woman, who is married, said she had met with a male acquaintance who had promised to give her back an old photograph of herself. After she met her acquaintance in his car in Qatif, a gang of seven men then attacked and raped both of them, multiple times. Despite the prosecution's requests for the maximum penalty for the rapists, the Qatif court sentenced four of them to between one and five years in prison and between 80 and 1,000 lashes. They were convicted of kidnapping, apparently because prosecutors could not prove rape. The judges reportedly ignored evidence from a mobile phone video in which the attackers recorded the assault.

I guess if someone breaks into your house, Konig is gonna say "you had 2 drug addicts in your house, what did you expect? Of course they robbed you"

More is good, all is better

3/31/11

How long does it usually take anyways? I thought it was a much faster process than Saudi's

It's usually 3-4 years before a verdict is final and an execution (public for men, private for women) takes place(goes through 8 courts!). The king usually spends the year before the execution pleading on behalf of the criminal's family to the victim's family for mercy. If the victim's family does forgive the murderer (interestingly, the victim's have up to the second before the criminal is executed...happened once, the executioner drew his sword and the kid's father yelled "I forgive him!", imagine the feeling of renewed life!), he goes through another process; the public's right. This is usually 6-10 years in a min. security prison (pretty lavish in my opinion)

Greed is Good.

3/31/11

The rape comment tells you how wide the gap is between Islam and the west - those dudes have pretty medieval notions of how things should work in a society

3/31/11

mmm
If I recall correctly, that wasn't the point of this thread :) To you yours and to me mine, aren't I right?

Would someone mind adding something meaningful (thanks to those who did) to this thread?

Greed is Good.

3/31/11

Konig, as muslims we do not believe that women bring rape onto themselves. We ask all people, both women and men, to be chaste, but if a women is raped then the raper should be dealt with, not the women. That is a cultural misunderstanding not a religious issue. My father has spoken on this issue at length in the past - google it, you'll probably find an article on it. Remember, if something contradicts plain logic, then it is not islam. Allah gave us the power to differentiate between right and wrong in most matters.

4/1/11

I was actually pretty supportive of Islam and konig initially but then I realized his ass-backwards ideas actually represent his religion fairly well. Should've stopped talking when you had the upper hand

4/1/11

sigh

Please note that english isn't my first language. I might not be able to express my ideas clearly and they might be worded the wrong way. Sorry for the confusion.

What I meant to say is that she was hanging out with the wrong crowd, so it is not surprising that that happened to her, which is still sad and very upsetting to the entire community.

Whether the ruling on the victim is in line with real shariah or not, I do not know. I dont want to misinform you. Yes, women here aren't treated like they should be. Why, you ask? I have no clue. If it were a true islamic country, it wouldn't be anywhere near what it is now. It's very frustrating for a good portion of our society that women can not drive, but from my extensive reading, it has nothing to do with Islam; its a purely cultural sorta thing.

There is a comforting trend going on though. These really old traditions and thoughts (of which the majority of the country doesnt share, except for the originally beduin families) are starting to lose ground. 15 years ago it would be near suicide for a girl to go out without covering her hair. Now its a rather normal sight. There's more room for women to move around, figuratively speaking, which is always good. Women are starting to take on higher roles in the economy and politics, albeit low in number, it's a start. In my opinion, what's holding this place back from more reform and modernization (societally speaking) are the elders . The youngsters (which make up about 74% of the population, if im not mistaken) are itching for normalcy and not some made up laws that don't even exist in the Quran.

Again, I apologize for any misunderstanding caused by my previous comment due to its wording.

Greed is Good.

4/1/11

I thought you were talking about the case where a girl was raped by 4 of her "friends" (drug addicts) in a beachhouse.

If im not mistaken, didn't they execute the rapists already? then they proceeded with the unmarried couple's ruling (for being in "suspicious seclusion", as they like to call it), both imprisoned for 3 months I believe.

To use a fictional anecdote: They were dealing drugs and a gang of thieves attacked them and stole their money. Correct me if Im wrong, wont the concerned authorities, if this was in another country, prosecute the gang of thieves and then the 2 for drug dealing? I guess that's how to judges saw it here. Im in no place to judge how fair the judgement is, though.

Greed is Good.

4/1/11
konig:

I thought you were talking about the case where a girl was raped by 4 of her "friends" (drug addicts) in a beachhouse.

If im not mistaken, didn't they execute the rapists already? then they proceeded with the unmarried couple's ruling (for being in "suspicious seclusion", as they like to call it), both imprisoned for 3 months I believe.

To use a fictional anecdote: They were dealing drugs and a gang of thieves attacked them and stole their money. Correct me if Im wrong, wont the concerned authorities, if this was in another country, prosecute the gang of thieves and then the 2 for drug dealing? I guess that's how to judges saw it here. Im in no place to judge how fair the judgement is, though.

Konig. The link to the article is in the post. Go read. I am embarrassed for you.
Although this is something I would have expected from the dude who started the thread about a car with Saudi plates.
I must admit, you kinda surprised me for a moment when you started making reasonable and well-articulated points. I thought I misjudged you. But you just made it clear that whatever little shred of sense you made was probably a verbatim repetition of someone else's words.

More is good, all is better

4/1/11

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/18/world/middleeast...
Shows you how wacky some of these judges are. The king pardoned the victims (the judges were either demoted or relieved of duty, if im not mistaken), since he has the ultimate decision in discretionary cases like this.

One problem the government should definitely address really soon is the extremity of some rulings in discretionary cases that dont have preset punishments.

Greed is Good.

4/2/11

thanks argonaut. No, my own words.

Greed is Good.

4/2/11

sometimes i wonder what the world would be like without religion.

it'd be so peaceful, productive, and just amazing. no israeli palestine conflict, no terrorism, no extremism

some day religion will die out (not faith) in another 100 years... too bad i won't be there for it :-(

4/3/11

7lwe ya zalameh haha

Greed is Good.

4/3/11
konig:

7lwe ya zalameh haha

Now you know why my username is Khara 3alekon (for the people that think and say very inappropriate things).

.

4/3/11

Sa7, besi7ilon ino ya3rafoo fee 3arab on wall street... in most cases their bosses.

.

4/4/11
khara 3alekon:

Sa7, besi7ilon ino ya3rafoo fee 3arab on wall street... in most cases their bosses.

haha touche brother

Greed is Good.

4/4/11
khara 3alekon:

Sa7, besi7ilon ino ya3rafoo fee 3arab on wall street... in most cases their bosses.

Ya 7ay33m.

KHRAAAAAAAYYYYBBAAAAH!

.... I just had to.

I still haven't figured out how to incorporate numbers into words in Arabic.

Note: No, I'm not Arab- just lived in Dubai for a few years.

I win here, I win there...

4/21/11
Bi-Winning:
khara 3alekon:

Sa7, besi7ilon ino ya3rafoo fee 3arab on wall street... in most cases their bosses.

Ya 7ay33m.

KHRAAAAAAAYYYYBBAAAAH!

.... I just had to.

I still haven't figured out how to incorporate numbers into words in Arabic.

Note: No, I'm not Arab- just lived in Dubai for a few years.

lol what were u trying to say exactly? chub chub ya rayal. remind u of dubai much? :-p

4/4/11

Can you guys express yourself in English?

4/6/11

|-|3'/ L00K! RUD3 d0U(|-|3B49$ R |-|4\/1||9 7|-|31r 0\/\/|| L3/\/\0|| p4r7'/!

More is good, all is better

4/6/11
Argonaut:

|-|3'/ L00K! RUD3 d0U(|-|3B49$ R |-|4\/1||9 7|-|31r 0\/\/|| L3/\/\0|| p4r7'/!

Wh3n l1F3 91v32 U l3M0N2, M4k3 73kW1l4...

I win here, I win there...

4/6/11

0|-| 1 b37 j00Z 5QU33Z3 7|-|3/\/\ L3/\/\0||5 d1R3(7L'/ 1||70 j00R /\/\0U7|-|...

More is good, all is better

4/25/11

Hello to you all,

I just want to give a compliment to all the Muslims who are responding here, keep up with the Dawah!

However, I would like to make one thing clear...a girl never seeks to get raped if she hangs out with the wrong people...although I think a girl can prevent to be in a situation like that to a certain extend....but then still NO is NO...and every guy should accept that...in the ISLAM it is even forbidden to have sex with a lady before getting married with her...so do not come up with your own conclusions on this matter!!!

Muslims do not hate jews....Jews are also people from the book (as well as Christians). We accept every prophet from other people religions...do not forget that...this makes the Islam very tolerant compared to other religions (which is not really important...but the Islam is always being accused for being intolerant).

I do not like the comments with full of hate. This is the problem nowadays, we only give hate to each other which results in no trust in the human being. I hope that people with a religion can do their prays at work without finding too much problems from their supervisors. And I think the religious people should also be thankful if the opportunity is given to them (think about the people who do not have the chance to do their prayers).

One last thing: Do not believe the media always and also do not see any muslim representing the Islam by his/her behaviour...a muslim is also just a human being with his own mistakes. If you want to learn about the Islam, please refer to the Quran itself. A Muslim will not give you a perfect indication of the religion because nobody is perfect. But if you refer to the Quran you will certainly discover the Islam in the most perfect way (in my opinion)

I wish you all a good day full with tolerance for each other ;-) (sorry for my English)

Salaam/Peace

Bekko

4/26/11
Bekko:

Hello to you all,

I just want to give a compliment to all the Muslims who are responding here, keep up with the Dawah!

However, I would like to make one thing clear...a girl never seeks to get raped if she hangs out with the wrong people...although I think a girl can prevent to be in a situation like that to a certain extend....but then still NO is NO...and every guy should accept that...in the ISLAM it is even forbidden to have sex with a lady before getting married with her...so do not come up with your own conclusions on this matter!!!

Muslims do not hate jews....Jews are also people from the book (as well as Christians). We accept every prophet from other people religions...do not forget that...this makes the Islam very tolerant compared to other religions (which is not really important...but the Islam is always being accused for being intolerant).

I do not like the comments with full of hate. This is the problem nowadays, we only give hate to each other which results in no trust in the human being. I hope that people with a religion can do their prays at work without finding too much problems from their supervisors. And I think the religious people should also be thankful if the opportunity is given to them (think about the people who do not have the chance to do their prayers).

One last thing: Do not believe the media always and also do not see any muslim representing the Islam by his/her behaviour...a muslim is also just a human being with his own mistakes. If you want to learn about the Islam, please refer to the Quran itself. A Muslim will not give you a perfect indication of the religion because nobody is perfect. But if you refer to the Quran you will certainly discover the Islam in the most perfect way (in my opinion)

I wish you all a good day full with tolerance for each other ;-) (sorry for my English)

Salaam/Peace

Bekko

Amen!

I win here, I win there...

4/25/11

Dear Troll,

First of all...let us talk together in a nice way. I did not use swearing words...so I expect from you the same.

We do not hate Hindu's at all...We are not even allowed to hate other religions. We are here to gain knowledge from each other...

Hinduism and Islam do have their differences but also a lot of similar aspects. In the end we (religious people) want to serve god....that is the most important....HOW we are doing it...it is a personal matter. In the Quran there is even a whole chapter dedicated to people who not believe in Islam (which was already mentioned by konig) and stating that it is not a problem at all...for you your thing...for me my thing (summarized).

Why I mentioned the Jews were the people from the Book because a lot of postings were giving the idea that muslims directly hate Jews which is not the case at all. I provided information how the Jews are looked at within the Islam. SO I DID NOT SAID THAT WE DO NOT HATE PEOPLE ONLY FROM THE BOOK!!!!!!!! IF YOU ARE REPEATING WHAT I AM SAYING...DO IT IN A CORRECT WAY DEAR TROLL...

You can think the Islam is an evil religion (that is your right)...but I am 100% sure that you did not even read the Quran (or not even willing to). So that means that you are right....that the Islam is an evil religion and that nothing will change that fact FOR YOU YEAH!!

You should watch out by building your arguments directly from TV...they do not always say what needs to be said. I mean, I also read that Hindu people in villages in India let their children marry with Dogs to prevent a bad life or whatever...Do I have to think now that that is Hinduism? Or should I open a book (bhagvad ghita, the veda's) and explore myself if this is a prescribed rule within the Hinduism? I think the last one dear Troll.

In India for example with the Moghuls...there was one emperor which was intolerant against non-muslims...but his son even build a Taj Mahal for his Hindu wife and wanted peace between the religions in India. This indicates that you should not look at the people while judging a faith but look at the source!

The age of Aisha (PBUH) when the holy prophet Mohammed (PBUH) married her is still not really clear. He married her when she was young, that is true...but he did not had sex with her directly. The marriage between Aisha and Mohammed was actually a favour of Mohammed to Aisha's Father who asked him to marry his daugther...because Mohammed did not want to insult her father and a good friend...he took Aisha as his wife.

Do not think that this only happens in the Islam dear Troll. Even my grandmother from my mother's side (WHO WAS A HINDU) was married on the age of 9 with my grandfather (ALSO HINDU). You are aware of the fact how these things are going (certainly in India and not only with Muslims dear Troll).

Try to talk without hate....I do not even see your face...but I can feel your hate...

What was it again? Shanti (peace) right?

Salaam/Peace/Shanti to all

PS: My answers were based on my own knowledge and opinion. If you want to have 'an official' explanation on your matters please refer to the Quran or ask an Imam (who will be glad to help you with your questions)

Bekko

4/27/11

Here are some quotes on Jews from the Holy Quran

Ignominy shall be their portion [the Jews'] wheresoever they are found... They have incurred anger from their Lord, and wretchedness is laid upon them... because they disbelieve the revelations of Allah and slew the Prophets wrongfully... because they were rebellious and used to transgress. [Surah 111, v. 112]
And thou wilt find them [the Jews] the greediest of mankind....[Surah 11, v. 96]
Evil is that for which they sell their souls... For disbelievers is a terrible doom.[Surah II, v. 90]

Taste ye [Jews] the punishment of burning.[Surah III, v. 18 1]

Proclaim a woeful punishment to those that hoard up gold and silver.... Their treasures shall be heated in the dres of Hell, and their foreheads, sides and backs branded with them. . . . 'Taste then the punishment which is your due. [Surah IX, v. 35]

"They [the Jews] are the heirs of Hell.... They will spare no pains to corrupt you. They desire nothing but your ruin. Their hatred is clear from what they say ... When evil befalls you they rejoice." Ibid. [Surah 111, v. 117-120]

Those who disbelieve Our revelations, We shall expose them to the fire. As often as their skins are consumed We shall exchange them for fresh skins that they may taste the torment.[Surah IV, v. 56]

Because of the wrongdoing of the Jews.... And of their taking usury ... and of their devouring people's wealth by false pretenses. We have prepared for those of them who disbelieve a painful doom.[Surah IV, v. 160, 161]

Allah hath cursed them [the Jews] for their disbelief.[Surah IV, v. 46]

They [the Jews] will spare no pains to corrupt you. They desire nothing but your ruin. Their hatred is clear from what they say, but more violent is the hatred which their breasts conceal.[Surah III, v. 117-120]

In truth the disbelievers are an open enemy to you.[Surah IV, v. 101]

And thou seest [Jews and Christians] vying one with another in sin and transgression and their devouring of illicit gain. Verily evil is what they do. Why do not the rabbis and the priests forbid their evilspeaking and their devouring of illicit gain? .... evil is their handiwork.[Surah V, v. 62, 63]

O ye who believe! Take not the Jews and Christians for friends. [Surah V, v. 51]

The most vehement of mankind in hostility [are] the Jews and the idolators.[Surah V, v. 82]

Fight against such of those [Jews and Christians] ... until they pay for the tribute readily, being brought low.[Surah IX, v. 29]

Allah fighteth against them [the Jews]. How perverse they are![Surah IX, v. 30]

Believers, many are the rabbis and the monks who defraud men of their possessions... Proclaim a woeful punishment to those that hoard up gold and silver and do not spend it in Allah's cause.... their treasures shall be heated in the fire of Hell.... [Surah IX, v. 26-34]

They [the Jews] spread evil in the land .... [Surah V, v. 62-66]

[The Jews] knowingly perverted [the word of Allah], know of nothing except lies ... commit evil and become engrossed in sin. [Surah II, v. 71-85]

4/27/11
ILOVENYGUY:

Here are some quotes on Jews from the Holy Quran

Ignominy shall be their portion [the Jews'] wheresoever they are found... They have incurred anger from their Lord, and wretchedness is laid upon them... because they disbelieve the revelations of Allah and slew the Prophets wrongfully... because they were rebellious and used to transgress. [Surah 111, v. 112]
And thou wilt find them [the Jews] the greediest of mankind....[Surah 11, v. 96]
Evil is that for which they sell their souls... For disbelievers is a terrible doom.[Surah II, v. 90]

Taste ye [Jews] the punishment of burning.[Surah III, v. 18 1]

Proclaim a woeful punishment to those that hoard up gold and silver.... Their treasures shall be heated in the dres of Hell, and their foreheads, sides and backs branded with them. . . . 'Taste then the punishment which is your due. [Surah IX, v. 35]

"They [the Jews] are the heirs of Hell.... They will spare no pains to corrupt you. They desire nothing but your ruin. Their hatred is clear from what they say ... When evil befalls you they rejoice." Ibid. [Surah 111, v. 117-120]

Those who disbelieve Our revelations, We shall expose them to the fire. As often as their skins are consumed We shall exchange them for fresh skins that they may taste the torment.[Surah IV, v. 56]

Because of the wrongdoing of the Jews.... And of their taking usury ... and of their devouring people's wealth by false pretenses. We have prepared for those of them who disbelieve a painful doom.[Surah IV, v. 160, 161]

Allah hath cursed them [the Jews] for their disbelief.[Surah IV, v. 46]

They [the Jews] will spare no pains to corrupt you. They desire nothing but your ruin. Their hatred is clear from what they say, but more violent is the hatred which their breasts conceal.[Surah III, v. 117-120]

In truth the disbelievers are an open enemy to you.[Surah IV, v. 101]

And thou seest [Jews and Christians] vying one with another in sin and transgression and their devouring of illicit gain. Verily evil is what they do. Why do not the rabbis and the priests forbid their evilspeaking and their devouring of illicit gain? .... evil is their handiwork.[Surah V, v. 62, 63]

O ye who believe! Take not the Jews and Christians for friends. [Surah V, v. 51]

The most vehement of mankind in hostility [are] the Jews and the idolators.[Surah V, v. 82]

Fight against such of those [Jews and Christians] ... until they pay for the tribute readily, being brought low.[Surah IX, v. 29]

Allah fighteth against them [the Jews]. How perverse they are![Surah IX, v. 30]

Believers, many are the rabbis and the monks who defraud men of their possessions... Proclaim a woeful punishment to those that hoard up gold and silver and do not spend it in Allah's cause.... their treasures shall be heated in the fire of Hell.... [Surah IX, v. 26-34]

They [the Jews] spread evil in the land .... [Surah V, v. 62-66]

[The Jews] knowingly perverted [the word of Allah], know of nothing except lies ... commit evil and become engrossed in sin. [Surah II, v. 71-85]

This isnt a religious debate, create that in another post, and I am sure you will have plenty of comments, critisism and feedback, this was a question about Muslims working on wall street.

4/27/11

Arabs bankers make wall street look like look like a monkey cage.

4/28/11
nontarget:

Arabs bankers make wall street look like look like a monkey cage.

Would you like to elaborate so I can destroy you? K let's go.

.

4/27/11

Dec-Jun-Jun: How come no comments like that to that post?

First of all...let us talk together in a nice way. I did not use swearing words...so I expect from you the same.

We do not hate Hindu's at all...We are not even allowed to hate other religions. We are here to gain knowledge from each other...

Hinduism and Islam do have their differences but also a lot of similar aspects. In the end we (religious people) want to serve god....that is the most important....HOW we are doing it...it is a personal matter. In the Quran there is even a whole chapter dedicated to people who not believe in Islam (which was already mentioned by konig) and stating that it is not a problem at all...for you your thing...for me my thing (summarized).

Why I mentioned the Jews were the people from the Book because a lot of postings were giving the idea that muslims directly hate Jews which is not the case at all. I provided information how the Jews are looked at within the Islam. SO I DID NOT SAID THAT WE DO NOT HATE PEOPLE ONLY FROM THE BOOK!!!!!!!! IF YOU ARE REPEATING WHAT I AM SAYING...DO IT IN A CORRECT WAY DEAR TROLL...

4/28/11

Correct me if I am wrong but doesn't Islam forbid earning interest and loaning money? Based on that it would seem that true Muslim monkeys would be at odds with their religious beliefs working in banking.

4/28/11
Matthias:

Correct me if I am wrong but doesn't Islam forbid earning interest and loaning money? Based on that it would seem that true Muslim monkeys would be at odds with their religious beliefs working in banking.

See page 2 of the NY Times article.

Best Response
4/29/11
Matthias:

Correct me if I am wrong but doesn't Islam forbid earning interest and loaning money? Based on that it would seem that true Muslim monkeys would be at odds with their religious beliefs working in banking.

Islam forbids charging of interest and/or receiving interest. A pure advisory firm like Greenhill, Rothschild, Lazard, Harris Williams, Peter J Solomon, Qatalyst Partners etc don't do financing so there is no physical monetary transaction between your firm and the client that bears interest payments. Even though your work will revolve around interest/inflation and time value of money, the main goal of your job is to efficiently and effectively originate and execute deals, based on pure advice and no financial capital. It is in the grey area for M&A/industry groups at BBs or other full-service banks, since fees (revenues) are based on transaction value and not securities transactions, but I am not educated well enough on that domain so I will go no further.

Now if you were a mortgage banker than that is a different story, since your job is to sell interest bearing securities/packages and is prohibited. Other include asset backed finance, corporate/commercial banking, fixed income derivatives, etc.

But then again, this is western society and there is not a lot of ways to avoid it. For an example a Muslim engineer working at Google in some indirect way makes porn (which is also prohibited) easier to download. Actuaries (permitted) work in life insurance (which is prohibited). Real estate agents (from my knowledge is permitted) work closely with mortgage bankers. Waiter/Waitress trying to pay for school or family serving pork/alcohol at the restaurant he/she works at.I guess it all depends on good faith, no one is perfect.

4/29/11

Anyone who believes that Sharia financing is any different from charging interest is vastly misinformed.

4/29/11
Macro Arbitrage:

Anyone who believes that Sharia financing is any different from charging interest is vastly misinformed.

this. i've read into Islamic finance quite a bit and i dont see how its not the same concept as interest.

4/29/11
oldmansacks:
Macro Arbitrage:

Anyone who believes that Sharia financing is any different from charging interest is vastly misinformed.

this. i've read into Islamic finance quite a bit and i dont see how its not the same concept as interest.

The interpretation of Sharia will change according to the funding source of the person interpreting it. I'm shooting for more poo, have at it you intellectual flyweights. Ask yourself if you really want to know, and then proceed with caution.

You think youR religion, or lack thereof, exempts you from reality?

Get busy living

4/29/11
oldmansacks:
Macro Arbitrage:

Anyone who believes that Sharia financing is any different from charging interest is vastly misinformed.

this. i've read into Islamic finance quite a bit and i dont see how its not the same concept as interest.

Gotta love fairy tales. The banking system in the middle east is a fucking joke.

4/29/11
Macro Arbitrage:
oldmansacks:
Macro Arbitrage:

Anyone who believes that Sharia financing is any different from charging interest is vastly misinformed.

this. i've read into Islamic finance quite a bit and i dont see how its not the same concept as interest.

Gotta love fairy tales. The banking system in the middle east is a fucking joke.

BCCI = template for international MENA banking.

Get busy living

4/29/11

There is no TVM in Islam?

4/29/11

Interest is structured differently under Syariah law, but still works fundamentally the same way. One actual difference, though, is that banks run under Syariah law - you see a lot of these in Muslim countries like Indonesia, of course - must have pretty high "tier 1 capital" ratios. They don't exactly call it that, but that's pretty much what it is.

Turns out that that was a pretty smart move, in the wake of '08.

4/29/11

Thank you for the share Op. I think the article has failed to point out that working on the street is not any different than working at ABN AMRO or Standard Chartered in Pakistan [Two of the many banks there]. Though there are Banks based on Islamic concepts, so far they seem to have been bending the rules.

Interest (riba) is not allowed in Islam, and most loans are made on the basis of PLS (Profit & Loss Sharing). Islamic banking & finance is a growing segment of the global economy and after 9/11 Muslims in the Muslim countries are moving towards more Islamic ways of Banking than the conventional banking.

As for the prayers, it does not take 2 hours to pray, you can be done praying in 5 minutes and it wouldn't stop you from completing that model you are working on. It is desirable to offer Friday afternoon prayers in congregation, and it does not have to be at the mosque, it can be with a group of fellow Muslims. Also, you do not need a dedicated prayer room, you just need a clean tidy place to put your prayer mat on.

It's because there is no central authority in Islam, you will hear many versions of what is allowed and what's not allowed. In the American economy, practically everything is based on interest. Mortgage, insurance, car financing, credit cards. I use credit cards, but never pay interest. I have a rented apartment. I do insurance, because it is the law of the land. I have found that it is easier, generally, to be a Muslim in America than some of the Muslim countries.

4/29/11
XFS:

Thank you for the share Op.

You're welcome!

In a post credit-crisis world, Islamic banking is tipped to be a major growth area for international financing. It currently represents around just 2 percent to 3 percent of global financial assets, or almost $1 trillion, but it is growing at an average of 25 percent each year.

http://www.businessweek.com/ap/financialnews/D9LIK...
and

Robert Tuttle, the former U.S. Ambassador to London who is now a millionaire businessman, warned in a cable to his bosses at the U.S. Treasury that Britain was getting the jump on the United States at a crucial time.

"Should London successfully position itself as a leading Islamic finance center, it could gain an edge on New York, when the global financial markets recover," Tuttle said in a 2009 cable obtained by the Wikileaks website and published in The Telegraph this month.

4/29/11

Macro is correct. It's virtually interest under a different name.

4/29/11

In my personal opinion, all the Islamic finance structures are in spirit conventional structures, but Shariah compliant only in form (form over substance). They need to be approved by the respective finance institutions' Shariah body, and the approvals can be withheld by some and given by others (meaning, that even for traditional Islamic structures it can be a question of interpretation by different individuals).

At the end of the day, Islamic institutions cannot survive if they don't meet the conventional investment criteria, so there will always be a market for Islamic structures, "experts" in Islamic financing, and for the Shariah departments/ scholars who approve them.

For those of you who are interested, you could Wiki/read about the various structures
- Murabaha and Tawarruq (cost-plus financing)
- Salam (forward sale)
- Wakala (agency)
- Istisna'a (custom manufacturing)
- Ijara (leasing)
- Wakala - Ijara
- Istisna'a - Ijara
- Musharaka (partnership)
- Mudaraba (trust financing)
- Sukuk (certificates)

4/29/11

If US was based on Islamic banking their debt / financial crises wouldnt of been as bad.

I work in Saudi Arabia, our ramadan hours are different than regular hours. Saudi banking system is one of the strongest in the middle east due to regulations.

4/29/11

I thought Judaism and Christianity forbid interest etc.. Well in case of Judaism its ok to lend money for interest as long as you are a goyim.
I guess it's all bull crap anyway.
At the end it all boils down to money.
And Islamic Banking is a joke. They charge interest and call it something else.

4/29/11

Interesting article, OP. I am Muslim, and suspect that a few others on WSO are as well.

Angus Macgyver is correct BTW. Interest, and all the good shit is there... it's just called something else, and the difference is minute at best. My father is a pretty devout Muslim, and he was a successful prop trader in his prime, he was just a poor immigrant from Asia, and is currently worth 10-15 MM.

What I found most interesting about the article, was the fact that YOUNG people were so adherent to their religion, and went above and beyond the basic 5 pillars of Islam.

Which are:
1) Belief in God, and the Messiah.
2) Pray 5 times a day.
3) Refrain from eating or drinking (even water) from sunrise to sundown during the month of Ramadan.
4) Give a significant amount of your income to the poor. (My old man donates ~20% of his yearly pay.)
5) Go on a pilgrimage to Mecca.

I myself only do #s 1 and 3. I don't smoke, drink, or do drugs. I eat halal food - which is pretty much the same as kosher. But I indulge in a few things such as pre-marital sex, and eating shrimp-fried-rice (not at the same time).

Apart from the retard who asked me how I felt when Bin Laden died, everyone I've come across at work have been incredibly cool with me being a Muslim. Sure, I get the occassional crass "what's that under your vest bro?" joke, but they don't mean anything by it.

Thanks again for the link OP. Didn't know the CEO of PIMCO was Muslim.

Calling Ron Paul an isolationist is like calling your neighbor a hermit because he doesn't come over to your property and break your windows.

4/29/11
Leonidas:

Interesting article, OP. I am Muslim, and suspect that a few others on WSO are as well.

Angus Macgyver is correct BTW. Interest, and all the good shit is there... it's just called something else, and the difference is minute at best. My father is a pretty devout Muslim, and he was a successful prop trader in his prime, he was just a poor immigrant from Asia, and is currently worth 10-15 MM.

What I found most interesting about the article, was the fact that YOUNG people were so adherent to their religion, and went above and beyond the basic 5 pillars of Islam.

Which are:
1) Belief in God, and the Messiah.
2) Pray 5 times a day.
3) Refrain from eating or drinking (even water) from sunrise to sundown during the month of Ramadan.
4) Give a significant amount of your income to the poor. (My old man donates ~20% of his yearly pay.)
5) Go on a pilgrimage to Mecca.

I myself only do #s 1 and 3. I don't smoke, drink, or do drugs. I eat halal food - which is pretty much the same as kosher. But I indulge in a few things such as pre-marital sex, and eating shrimp-fried-rice (not at the same time).

Apart from the retard who asked me how I felt when Bin Laden died, everyone I've come across at work have been incredibly cool with me being a Muslim. Sure, I get the occassional crass "what's that under your vest bro?" joke, but they don't mean anything by it.

Thanks again for the link OP. Didn't know the CEO of PIMCO was Muslim.

He's not. He was born to Muslim parents.

Big difference.

4/29/11
Leonidas:

Interesting article, OP. I am Muslim, and suspect that a few others on WSO are as well.

Angus Macgyver is correct BTW. Interest, and all the good shit is there... it's just called something else, and the difference is minute at best. My father is a pretty devout Muslim, and he was a successful prop trader in his prime, he was just a poor immigrant from Asia, and is currently worth 10-15 MM.

What I found most interesting about the article, was the fact that YOUNG people were so adherent to their religion, and went above and beyond the basic 5 pillars of Islam.

Which are:
1) Belief in God, and the Messiah.
2) Pray 5 times a day.
3) Refrain from eating or drinking (even water) from sunrise to sundown during the month of Ramadan.
4) Give a significant amount of your income to the poor. (My old man donates ~20% of his yearly pay.)
5) Go on a pilgrimage to Mecca.

I myself only do #s 1 and 3. I don't smoke, drink, or do drugs. I eat halal food - which is pretty much the same as kosher. But I indulge in a few things such as pre-marital sex, and eating shrimp-fried-rice (not at the same time).

Apart from the retard who asked me how I felt when Bin Laden died, everyone I've come across at work have been incredibly cool with me being a Muslim. Sure, I get the occassional crass "what's that under your vest bro?" joke, but they don't mean anything by it.

Thanks again for the link OP. Didn't know the CEO of PIMCO was Muslim.

Just curious, If you're gonna break one rule..why not break them all? I thought pre martial sex was a big no no in Islam? why pick and choose? A friend of mine who is Muslim does everything (drinks, pre-marital sex, etc) but when it comes to eating pork he goes, "Oh no man, I can't I'm Muslim." It boggles my mind.

4/29/11
General Disarray:
Leonidas:

Interesting article, OP. I am Muslim, and suspect that a few others on WSO are as well.

Angus Macgyver is correct BTW. Interest, and all the good shit is there... it's just called something else, and the difference is minute at best. My father is a pretty devout Muslim, and he was a successful prop trader in his prime, he was just a poor immigrant from Asia, and is currently worth 10-15 MM.

What I found most interesting about the article, was the fact that YOUNG people were so adherent to their religion, and went above and beyond the basic 5 pillars of Islam.

Which are:
1) Belief in God, and the Messiah.
2) Pray 5 times a day.
3) Refrain from eating or drinking (even water) from sunrise to sundown during the month of Ramadan.
4) Give a significant amount of your income to the poor. (My old man donates ~20% of his yearly pay.)
5) Go on a pilgrimage to Mecca.

I myself only do #s 1 and 3. I don't smoke, drink, or do drugs. I eat halal food - which is pretty much the same as kosher. But I indulge in a few things such as pre-marital sex, and eating shrimp-fried-rice (not at the same time).

Apart from the retard who asked me how I felt when Bin Laden died, everyone I've come across at work have been incredibly cool with me being a Muslim. Sure, I get the occassional crass "what's that under your vest bro?" joke, but they don't mean anything by it.

Thanks again for the link OP. Didn't know the CEO of PIMCO was Muslim.

Just curious, If you're gonna break one rule..why not break them all? I thought pre martial sex was a big no no in Islam? why pick and choose? A friend of mine who is Muslim does everything (drinks, pre-marital sex, etc) but when it comes to eating pork he goes, "Oh no man, I can't I'm Muslim." It boggles my mind.

haha, i see this happen too. Its hard to avoid the drinks, sex, etc since all your friends/co-workers do it. But pork is something that is easily substitutable and not as weird to say "no i can't eat pork" vs "no i cant drink" or a 20 something year old saying "no i am keeping my virginity until I'm married". I guess it more of a mental thing than religious dilemma to them. Parents tell their kids they can't eat pig meat from day 1, but don't really mention sex and alcohol until they are older (when they are pretty much making their own decisions by then) so i guess that is a factor too. it is odd because drinking alcohol and pre-marital sex is far worse than eating pork in Islam. i guess its basically trying to be "the best muslim as possible" vs. "being the worst muslim". But i see where you are coming from.

4/29/11
General Disarray:

Just curious, If you're gonna break one rule..why not break them all? I thought pre martial sex was a big no no in Islam? why pick and choose? A friend of mine who is Muslim does everything (drinks, pre-marital sex, etc) but when it comes to eating pork he goes, "Oh no man, I can't I'm Muslim." It boggles my mind.

The pre-marital sex and other "rules" are broken by Catholics/Christians all the time as well.

4/29/11

One of my favourite colleagues was Muslim. Smart guy and good friend. His religion didn't affect his/our work at all. I think he had a healthy aversion to recourse debt. His background was initially M&A and then a couple of stints in PE (non-real estate). He runs his own firm now advising large investors on their PE investments.

He explained to me that the reason for banning usury was to combat debt bondage and slavery, so he personally had no issue with non-recourse debt on portfolio companies / assets. I don't know if this is a common view among professionals.

Macro Arbitrage:
oldmansacks:
Macro Arbitrage:

Anyone who believes that Sharia financing is any different from charging interest is vastly misinformed.

this. i've read into Islamic finance quite a bit and i dont see how its not the same concept as interest.

Gotta love fairy tales. The banking system in the middle east is a fucking joke.

It's just marketing (like most of finance)... I'm not an expert, but the way I understand it is that it helps "sharia compliant" firms attract capital and customers from a segment that would prefer that type of structure to a traditional interest based instrument. I wouldn't be surprised if depositors in some countries viewed Islamic banks (rightly or wrongly) as being more stable or trustworthy than their non-Islamic competitors.

In most countries with large Muslim populations (Middle East and some Asian countries), you find both conventional and Sharia compliant institutions. Also, it's not uncommon for for BB investment banks and other western institutions to structure deals in an Sharia compliant manner if the issuer requires it, or if they want to raise funds from that segment of the market.

Take mortgages, instead of a loan, you have a sale and leaseback, etc... a lot of the economics stay the same (or similar), but there are legal ramifications in terms of non-performance and foreclosure. It also kind of limits their ability to take full advantage of securitisations, MBS and such... until they come up with new structures i suppose.

Ethics
I'm not sure that I would be comfortable with being involved in all types of Islamic finance... Asset based finance is one thing, but I feel uncomfortable using the cover of religion to get people to enter into transactions that they would normally not pursue (e.g. islamic credit cards).

We once had a large Middle Eastern institution want to co-invest with us on a deal, but we couldn't find a structure that would work given our existing financing and such. They had a mandate to only invest in Sharia compliant structures.

4/29/11