I doubt any one here has started a real estate private equity firm, but given my access to some institutional money ($+-200M) I might--MIGHT--be in the process and, to be completely honest, there really aren't any better real estate forums that I'm aware of, so I figured this would be as good of a place as any to discuss.
Kind of an open-ended discussion. What are your experiences in RE private equity? How is the capital raising process? What kind of analyst, associate, MD, etc. comp would I expect to pay? What kind of fee structure has been typical for you? What are the common investment minimums? What are the common sources of funds (i.e. foreign, institution, HNW, etc.)? How are the guys responsible for raising money compensated (or are they typically the funds' founding principals)? Any well known third party investment servicers? Fees? Heck, does a fund require Class A office space or is any crappy office space fine? Open-ended discussion. For me I think my lack of knowledge in the institutional RE PE game is kind of a red flag and would be a major "barrier-to-entry."
My situation is basically this--for the last year I've been raising money for one-off deals. Small deals (like $300,000 to $1,000,000). Getting fees that average, like, 3%. Our plan (I have a business partner) was to do 7-10 deals, build out a really nice website for crowdfunding, take our product to venture capitalists in order to raise multiple 7 figures to build out infrastructure and to heavily market, and create a marketplace that has real institutional value. I've been thinking recently, however, how tough our business model has been. Working with unsophisticated investors (i.e. non-real estate professionals) has been nightmarish. Getting them to commit to a deal (that they rarely understand) and then to follow through has been like pulling teeth. Then servicing the investment feels like almost a waste of time (sick of answering questions from $25,000 investors and sick of acting like a debt collector with the real estate Sponsors when they miss their 5-month project estimate by 4 months--"When are you going to finish? Why is there a delay? You said 45-60 days 30 days ago. Do I seriously tell the investors '45-60 days' again?").
The following is from certified user @picklemonkey"
Real Estate Private Equity Capital Raising
I worked at a firm as they transitioned from syndicating deals on a one-off basis to raising a $100 MM fund. I'll try to touch on a few of the questions your brought up.
The capital raising process can be a total pain in the ass and incredibly time intensive. I would say for every 20 meeting you have with someone who is "interested" in investing you will have one person actually invest in your fund. The minimum investment amount is usually a related to the size of the fund you are looking to raise. $500k minimums on a $500 MM fund doesn't make any sense, but $500k minimum on a $25 MM fund is a lot more reasonable. The guys raising the money are usually the firms principals so they are compensated when they put that money to work, We had a fund raising guy for about 6 months, but he never managed to land any investors so he was let go pretty quickly (he was very expensive).
Seed Investors
One thing that I don't see mentioned very often is the importance of seed investors for a fund. It is WAY easier to raise the last 50% of your fund as opposed to the first 50%. Having a strong investor as an anchor of your fund is a extremely powerful marketing tool to get other investors on board. Be prepared to offer an investor like this some sweetheart terms.
Firm Size
For the size of the fund you are looking at I would say the max headcount you could expect to need is a part time admin, yourself as a principal, and one or two associates. If you could find an accountant that is cheaper than outsourcing that work, then bring someone else on board. Fund administration is 100% something that you should outsource (Cortland can be reasonable). Huge time sink and a total pain in the ass to manage yourself on top of finding deals, closing deals, managing deals, and raising capital.
Office Space
Crappy office space is fine. Just make sure it is presentable. If this is your first fund no one expects you to have floor to ceiling windows with the best views in your city.
Strategy
I agree with @cre_questions that you should focus on the asset classes and strategies that align with your experience. If a career value-add multifamily guy all of a sudden wanted to start an office development fund, a lot of investors would have trouble getting comfortable.
The capital I have experience helping to raise was all either HNM or lower level institutional capital.
These are just my initial thoughts and I'm sure many will disagree with my points here.
I think a lot of these questions depend on:
A) What kind of capital you have access to. Is it institutional, HNW, maybe foreign? What are your investors' goals? Do they just want to clip coupouns? How do you need to modify your fee structure to mesh with the economics of the deals you're chasing? Will they be very active in the process, requiring quarterly updates for their IC and making you use a standard accounting system? Are they familiar with your market? Are they even familiar with real estate? Are you gambling with some doctor's life savings? Do they have specific tax goals, and if so, how does that affect your strategy?
B) Where your expertise lies. Do you have x number of years in development? At a lifeco working on vanilla, core deals? In multifam or office? Maybe in land entitlement? What strategies do you expect to deploy? How does your investment thesis play to your strengths, and how does it relate to the cycle? Who are the other players in this space, and why should someone invest with you, a newcomer, instead of an established firm? Will you be pursuing a strategy (e.g. development or value-add) that requires some recourse? Do you and your partner have the financial strength to be providing guarantees?
All of these are questions you should already have firm answers to. It's good to hear that you have a partner; that seems to almost be a prerequisite to starting a succesful new company. I don't think you need to be worrying about salaries for MDs... maybe you'll need one analyst but I would think you and your partner should try to handle all the work until it's clear you need to bring someone on. You'll probably need at least one admin/accounting type.
No, not even close. LOL. Not on a $100M deal. I've never done deals at such a large level--my assumption is that one could get non-recourse (other than standard carveouts) if using 50% or less leverage. When I've done small development deals (like, under $5M) I've usually been able to get non-recourse at 50% or less leverage, but that's a much smaller deal and a totally different class. Not sure how the market might view that.
I worked at a firm as they transitioned from syndicating deals on a one-off basis to raising a $100 MM fund. I'll try to touch on a few of the questions your brought up.
The capital raising process can be a total pain in the ass and incredibly time intensive. I would say for every 20 meeting you have with someone who is "interested" in investing you will have one person actually invest in your fund. The minimum investment amount is usually a related to the size of the fund you are looking to raise. $500k minimums on a $500 MM fund doesn't make any sense, but $500k minimum on a $25 MM fund is a lot more reasonable. The guys raising the money are usually the firms principals so they are compensated when they put that money to work, We had a fund raising guy for about 6 months, but he never managed to land any investors so he was let go pretty quickly (he was very expensive).
One thing that I don't see mentioned very often is the importance of seed investors for a fund. It is WAY easier to raise the last 50% of your fund as opposed to the first 50%. Having a strong investor as an anchor of your fund is a extremely powerful marketing tool to get other investors on board. Be prepared to offer an investor like this some sweetheart terms.
For the size of the fund you are looking at I would say the max headcount you could expect to need is a part time admin, yourself as a principal, and one or two associates. If you could find an accountant that is cheaper than outsourcing that work, then bring someone else on board. Fund administration is 100% something that you should outsource (Cortland can be reasonable). Huge time sink and a total pain in the ass to manage yourself on top of finding deals, closing deals, managing deals, and raising capital.
Crappy office space is fine. Just make sure it is presentable. If this is your first fund no one expects you to have floor to ceiling windows with the best views in your city.
I agree with cre_questions that you should focus on the asset classes and strategies that align with your experience. If a career value-add multifamily guy all of a sudden wanted to start an office development fund, a lot of investors would have trouble getting comfortable.
The capital I have experience helping to raise was all either HNM or lower level institutional capital.
These are just my initial thoughts and I'm sure many will disagree with my points here.
Hey, btw, do you know if RE PE requires FINRA series licenses? I can't seem to find the answer anywhere on Google (which indicates that the answer is probably no). I'm obviously going to have extensive advisory from an attorney first, but just curious.
disclaimer* IANAL
No one at my previous firm was licensed. Our attorney advised us that if we had less than 6 investment vehicles, less than 100 investors, and less than $100 MM in any one investment vehicle no one needed to be licensed, nor would we need to register with the SEC. This definitely varies on a state by state basis.
Great responses so far, wow.
Some other questions: For PE funds that focus on new construction/new development, would that strategy require an in-house development team or would that be outsourced to a fee developer?
Do institutions, such as HFF and Ackman Ziff, raise equity for funds? I know some of our partners have employed them to raise money for specific deals.
If you want to be the GP on those transactions then yes you would need an in-house development "team". If you want to participate on the LP side of those deals then no that would not be necessary.
I've not heard of HFF raising capital for funds, but that doesn't mean they don't do it. We did work with a few placement agents, but they were only interested in working with funds that were targeting $250 MM or more. Park Hill Real Estate Group is one of those firms.
HFF does raise equity for funds. Some of their debt placement analysts/producers work on equity transactions and they also have a Global Capital group that specifically works on raising national/international equity for developers as well.
I'm in a very similar position. I find it easier to pick a very specific asset type and a strategy that you can employ routinely. One good example is my current fund started by buying multi building neighborhood retail centers. Upon purchase would get each building separately parceled and sell them off individually. They held nothing for their first few years as they only employed this strategy. It allowed them to build a strong investor base that trusted them and generated good and steady returns. After the strategy began to tire in the market, they began to broaden their approach. Hope this helps!
Thread from a couple years back with some good information (comments from Dingdong08 have some great insight): https://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/building-an-repe-shop
This thread is great. I actually tried searching for this but TBH the WSO search function isn't exactly Google level. No offense, Patrick. :)
Update: I approached my partner this afternoon about transitioning to a private equity fund model and she loved the idea. She said something to the effect of, "Let me contact my major investors immediately!" and I was like, "No, no, I've got a lot of research to do first." But anyway, she thinks we can raise the money.
Fun stuff. What are you thinking for outlay / hold period, given the kinds of deals you do?
It's a tough one. I'm a true, honest-to-God real estate generalist. I have a pretty decent level of expertise in multifamily, office, retail, hotels, self-storage and for-sale residential across all classes (A, B, etc.). The point has been made here--and I tend to agree--that funds should hyper-focus on region and on asset type and class. Assuming I even do this (and it seems pretty crazy and unlikely right now) I'd need to pick an asset where I can really push yield. So, opportunistic development in...self-storage in the Mid-Atlantic? Based on my experience, self-storage seems like a wildly mis-priced asset type with a really strong exit (to self-storage REITs) with low stabilized cap rates.
Crazier things have happened, but I can't imagine any of our institutional partners (LifeCos, pensions, endowments, etc.) giving $200 mm to a non-existent firm; unless you a) have a crazy track record and decades in the industry or b) are fucking someone on the CalPERS investment committee. What you're describing is hard to do with decades in the business and a great track record.
Our company has a bunch of seasoned ex-REIT and private equity types with 25+ years of experience and relationships, and raising capital is still hand to hand combat for us (just closed our third institutional fund ~$550+ mm). You can do it, but it's tough. The thesis is a tough sell these days and their are a lot of people out there raising money; a lot of LPs want each fund they allocate towards to be differentiated and vertically integrated, i.e. they want to write one check to an office fund, one check to an industrial fund, one check to MF development, etc. (this obviously excludes the mega-funds of the world).
Again, hope this works out for you, but just know that it is an absolute battle to get this done. Get some decent fund docs, a shiny PPM and go to town, and keep fucking that person on the investment committee.
I'm actually fairly confident we won't succeed, so I tend to agree with you. The only element of hope is that my partner is a Turkish- and Mandarin-speaking Chinese woman, and she has had some success interesting foreign institutions in doing business with her because of her cultural and language skills. The other element of hope is that I have weirdly successful friends who are close friends with a few billionaires who might be able to help in some way.
Overall, I'm highly pessimistic. In fact, to say that I'm highly pessimistic is an understatement.
Best advice I've read on this site.
To your last point, what about forgoing the fund structure to try and focus on building relationships with one or two ultra HNW or family offices who understand what you're doing and can/will fund your deals on a programmatic basis?
I like the idea but I guess I'm not interested in selling a specific deal to investors. But if you mean "programmatic" like "multifamily new construction in Boston" then yeah, I think that makes sense. But I think selling deals to unsophisticated real estate investors is something I'm no longer interested in doing. Deals are moving too fast to wait for someone to say yes.
I'm talking like separate accounts, if you could set up programs with a handful of sophisticated investors (smaller institutions or ultra HNW family offices) with very deep pockets that understand your investment style, agree to certain deal parameters upfront (strategy, leverage, hold period, markets, product type, etc.), and then you show them the deals that fit those parameters as they come through your pipeline and they can agree to JV or not
How easy is it for HFF, CBRE, etc to raise capital for you? Is it really only meant for top notch sponsors? We have a large number of RE value in our portfolio, but we don't tend to sell so most of our returns are CoC instead of IRR. What really is the criteria of the track record required to really entice investors?
I had a meeting today with someone about this very thing. Given the challenges people have pointed out of getting investors to just fork over money to an unproven fund, what about start with one or two big deals ($25M+) and get funding for that? People can invest in something real (rather than your fund's unknown future) and can reinvest their returns with you when you double their money for them. Basically, be an LP to a JV - get them to give you the deal and you raise the money for it. Definitely with a development and not an acquisition with the low caps right now. I'm talking to some senior developers about doing this very thing in multifamily right now and a number of successful private equity shops I know of started this way.
Most funds have "seed assets" for their funds to highlight the types of investments they're planning on making. You'd have 2-3 prior to the first close then another 2-3 before the final close of the fund. That is why an anchor investor or so sleeve of HNW investors in the fund can help things get rolling; also helpful to have a larger LOC but those are usually secured and based on your equity commitments.
Seed assets, such as existing assets, or seed assets as in deals that have already been done?
I think being close to people who can write million dollar checks and not think twice is important. Raising a fund is almost impossible unless you are really well known. syndicating deals is significantly easier as there are many JV specific funds
I have nothing to add except that this thread is awesome. I hope stars align and shit works out. Holler at me if you have design or construction questions.
where are you located?
My friend just inherited a shitload of money and wants to start his own PE firm. Advice? (Originally Posted: 10/13/2015)
My assumptions would be to hire a couple of consultants with PE experience to help him start his firm from scratch.
How do you actually start a PE firm from zero if you have 8 figures?
8 figures being $10m?
Def not enough money to do PE in typical sense of the word. With a fund size of $10-100m you're probably going to have to be looking at early stage / VC companies. You can do PE on small companies, but with fund size of say $50m the kind of companies you're going to be able to target are probably not the sorts you can put a great deal of cheap debt on.
if wants to go down PE route, needs to think about what whole cost of the operations is going to cost,e.g.:
Those are prime considerations off top of my head, but there are many more
So, just a bad idea, as I expected.
I told him to just buy ownership in a couple of luxury resorts, That way, he will get money and get to enjoy awesome resorts for ''free''.
Speaking of luxury resorts, are there divisions within IB that specializes in that industry? If so, do you know where I could find material that breaks it down?
Thanks again for your reply.
heister you're up
my advice would be to keep working, invest half in PE (at his level of net worth he can get into pretty good PE funds available through major brokerages), half in balanced public investments, and not start a PE shop.
I'd check on how it was structured also. I doubt he inherited 10mm+ outright, there's probably some credit shelter/spendthrift provisions that prevents him from accessing the money directly, and that's for his own good. it may be under the supervision of a trustee, in which case they'd never let him start a PE firm with all of the money. very few wealthy families have zero provisions for how the money is to be used.
in short: I'm betting there's more to the story here, I highly doubt 100% of his inheritance was just dropped into his account.
Yes. He already has his advisers etc. and he inherited much more than 8 figures. Most of it in equity in companies and lots of cash. The low 8 figure is what he's willing to ''play with''. So we were thinking of ideas (mine being the luxury resorts thing).
Eh his net worth is really not relevant when it comes to starting a PE firm, because he will have to source funds. There are very few people who have the liquid assets needed to just outright start a PE fund. What matters when it comes to starting a fund is ones ability to fund raise. What he would need to do is not even worry about analysts and start hunting for killer fund raisers. Deal analysis can be outsourced, its expensive but a much cheaper route when starting up because you don't have to pay staff analysts to do the initial deal overview. Also he will need to find a network of business brokers. This isn't really a great way to find companies because for the most part these are companies that are currently actively looking for buyers and will have a higher list price.
There are just so many moving parts that with out some experience it is next to impossible to do.
It all seems like too much work, what I would advise he does is do what I do. I have a great working relationship with several sources of funds i.e. banks, PE firms, HNW people, etc. and I use them as capital sources for deals I am working on. It's the same thing as a PE firm but I don't have to deal with the business aspects of a PE firm. The only thing you get out of starting a PE fund is the perceived prestige.
If someday we'd like to meet you so you can ''guide us'' and give us more insight, would you be interested? We'd use his dad private jet.
Tiger21 seems like a circle jerk. I don't know of anyone who is affiliated with them. I might know people who are but no one has ever mentioned it.
Really, starting a PE fund in this market is the best idea your friend could've come up with?
He's a trust fund baby who spends his days at the Spa.
Tell him to start a charity, he will lose his money slower that way.
Nah. I'll just tell him to buy out Bombay Spirits Co. and order them to shut down the production of Bombay Sapphire. That'll teach you.
Have you ever heard the phrase "the best way to make a small fortune in ______ is to start with a large one?" Trying to invest like a PE fund (because you're not going to raise external discretionary equity, like heister said, and actually be a PE fund and you don't really want to be one anyway-trust me, it's a bitch and no one would have done it if they started with a lot of money to begin with), or investing in luxury resorts, or investing large amounts into real estate or investing into anything without lots of experience will most likely lose your friend lots of money. For every person like heister who takes some family money and actually significantly grows it there are 10 who take that money and do silly shit like invest in luxury resorts and lose it. If I'm not wrong heister, you've made money in what most people would find pretty boring like ag land, other large swaths of land, timber and things like that. Not a resort on South Beach, at least not a significant percentage of your net worth.
If your friend likes sitting at spas and going to luxury resorts it's much better to spend hundreds or thousands of dollars a night checking in to them than it is to invest tens of millions into buying or developing one. And that's if he can even do it BC like bro said, rarely does someone inherit a huge chunk of pure cash that they can do with what they like. And to make money in resorts, real estate in general or PE you generally want to leverage it and any decent lender will be very hesitant to lend into a project just because a trust fund kid has lots of money.
And if your friend has little interest in actually working there's no point in doing any of it because in order to make money in any business, even if you start with a lot, is if you want to put in the hours to do so. If he wants something to do and you want to get him to put money into something pick something you like and take a small chunk of money and do it. Like sailing? Buy a few boats and set up a sailing school in Antigua. Craft brews? Start up a craft brewery. Like customizing cars? Do that. Shit where he could lose a couple million if it all goes tits up but not something that could really cost him money.
I invest in boring things precisely because they are boring and the competition is lower. But yes, most people are likely to loose money in things they have no experience in.
If your 'friend' has that much liquid, the easiest thing to do in this vein is become an active angel investor. You see celebrities do this; they set up a family office (see: Ashton Kutcher and A-Grade Investments, Steve Nash and Consigliere, Carmelo Anthony and MBA business schools">M7 Tech Partners, etc.), get buddy-buddy with VCs, co-invest with the friendliest ones, and try to use their celebrity cachet to add value to the portfolio company.
They tend to stick to consumer companies rather than enterprise, and for obvious reasons. It's easier to make Dollar Shaving Club more popular if you're Steve Nash and can do product placement or endorsements; it's harder to sell enterprise PaaS solutions when all you've done is play basketball or act in movies.
If there's a 8-figure balance in the bank, you're looking at 20-30 early stage tech deals. If you're co-investing with legitimate venture firms, at least a couple of those are going to return multiples on cash (and hopefully at least one provides double-digit MOIC).
With 3-5 years of experience doing this, you have the basis to approach institutional investors or other family offices to raise an actual fund. If the track record is audited and you're able to provide references from people within the industry (co-investors, entrepreneurs within the portfolio, etc.), this is the easiest way to move to the fund model.
Trying to set up a PE fund with no more experience beyond one job in the past decade is laughable. Thankfully there are enough startups out there looking for capital that your 'friend' could luck into financing a few decent ones as long as he's following smart investors into the right deals.
Great advice. Have seen celebs/well known names in VC a lot, and actually recently, on the enterprise as well, ie. Derek Jeter investing in video conferencing company Blue Jeans, investing with NEA. Make sure to have a good analyst/lawyer so you don't get screwed on valuation, seniority, liquidation preference, etc.
What a dumbass. Reminds me of a guy vowing to buy a bar with the slogan "No last call."
You start a PE firm to MAKE money off of other people, not to WASTE your own money.
I've always though an interesting concept would be 'poor man' PE.
Where you are buying out, leaning up and technologically innovating small companies. Think less than 10MM in revenue, like construction companies or insurance agencies. With purchase prices less than 10MM or so should I say better.
You come in, purchase it, and turn it from this old washed out company into a leaner, meaner and more aggressive version of itself. Then sell them to whoever, or even allow the owner (who was normally the CEO) to continue running it if they can.
I might not understand PE very well though so excuse me if I am understating or overstating what could/would be possible. This would be something I'd be interested in later down the road because it feels like a mix of consulting, finance, sales, operations, everything.
This could be something your friend would have a shot at actually doing, and would allow a bigger portfolio than just one big company, and just multiple small companies. At the very least he now would own a good little portfolio of small/lean businesses.
you're thinking search fund...
I think you underestimate the demand for a business that small. Scaling it is more difficult than some people seem to realize.
Seems to me that PE is pretty competitive and loaded with smarts, experience and sharp elbows. How is some pinhead going to build value with an inheritance but no obvious savvy?
If he does it anyways, contact me when you need to offload a few bleeders.
Starting PE (or REPE) firm: Model for early days (Originally Posted: 09/15/2016)
Hi guys, wondering if anyone has seen or has a good, flexible model for a startup PE firm or REPE firm (any illiquid manager doing closed-end funds)... I mean the management company itself. The model would show say the first 5 years from formation, and include costs of salaries (with guys hired over time as AUM grows, and partner salaries kicking in later than yr 1 potentially), legal expenses, office space, travel, etc., and would include revenue potentially for some one-off deals and then maybe fund 1 and subsequently fund 2 in the last couple years. I know the assumptions are everything here (how many guys do you need, what are placement fees, what is fund size, what are weighted average fees, what is deal hold length, deal returns, etc.), but I'm just looking for more ideas in developing my own model on this, so wondered if anyone else had worked on it or seen something comprehensive. If not full-on cash flow models, firm (GP) operating budgets and other related stuff could also be useful. Thanks.
Bumping this off of pure interest myself. Anyone out there have any thoughts even?
and another bump out of interest
Nothing huh, bump
Where to Start a PE investment Fund? (Originally Posted: 08/10/2016)
There are some family and friends that is looking to place some money into PE. Long story short, am looking at how much and where is the best place to incorporate. Taking into account Taxes, operation (outsource?), legal etc.
Initial idea is a LP structure, with an LLC as GP. This makes the most sense, and is the most common. I am thinking Cayman setup for both legal and tax reasons, as it seems to be the most convenient. (any other suggestion is more then welcome)
Any idea or common practice to set this up? I want to have a low of maintenance cost and startup cost as possible. Operation will also need to be as simple as possible, as I will need a new LP for each investment (to keep the account simplify and clean).
Also as an GP, any license requirement for the natural person or the legal entity?
Many thanks,
bump
why do you want to start your own fund if you don't know how PE works? why not just tell your fam/friends to invest in established funds?
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