My sister and her husband forced out of an airline due to Covid mandate

- My sister and her husband are both Captains at a major airline. They both have had health conditions that enable them to fly, but their doctors both recommended a vaccine would be risky for them. They both have had Covid so have the Covid antibodies.

They and a couple thousand people are suing the airline and my sister and her husband are $1.5M deep in legal fees. They will lose the money if they lose the case.

How is this different than pro-choice? My body my choice right? So pro-choice is cool for abortions but not for vaccinations? This case could go to the Supreme Court. They have the hearings in TX currently and the TX governor just stated an executive order pasted above.

For the record I am pro vax and generally do not fear too many bad things from getting vaccines. I got mine as soon as I could.

But don't you think people should have a choice?

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Comments (40)

Oct 12, 2021 - 6:27pm

They won't even give employment benefits. They don't want to fire people. They are giving people "indefinite leave."

Is this Communist China? What country does this?

"If you always put limits on everything you do, physical or anything else, it will spread into your work and into your life. There are no limits. There are only plateaus, and you must not stay there, you must go beyond them." - Bruce Lee

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Oct 13, 2021 - 10:36am

capex fairy

Ah yes, the famous Communist policy of large corporations firing people using at-will employment. You are very intelligent.Β 

It's definitely not communism; it's fascism. It's pretty much the definition of fascism.Β 

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Oct 12, 2021 - 6:49pm

I asked my sister if my brother in law is pissed and she said - nah - he just plays golf everyday now.

"If you always put limits on everything you do, physical or anything else, it will spread into your work and into your life. There are no limits. There are only plateaus, and you must not stay there, you must go beyond them." - Bruce Lee

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Oct 13, 2021 - 2:07am

Exclusive - Federal Judge Blocks United Airlines From Imposing Employee Vaccine Mandate
Β 

https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2021/10/12/exclusive-federal-judge-b…

"If you always put limits on everything you do, physical or anything else, it will spread into your work and into your life. There are no limits. There are only plateaus, and you must not stay there, you must go beyond them." - Bruce Lee

Most Helpful
  • Consultant in Consulting
Oct 13, 2021 - 6:37am

Obviously not a great situation to be in, but here's the truth (bracing myself for the MS)...if the health condition really contraindicated vaccination altogether they would have received a medical certificate saying so and making then exempt. Since it does not appear to be the case, just get the damn vaccine. Also saying "the COVID vaccine is risk" is vague as hell. You have 4 to choose from, all of which can be better for certain patient groups. My recommendation would be to just get their doctor to tell them which is the least "risky" and get it. Being $1.5M deep in legal fees because of the desire to not have a vaccine that hasn't been outright contraindicated seems like much more effort than taking the damn thing.

Oct 13, 2021 - 7:19am

I do not understand the analogy to abortion, especially since the OP is not pro choice.Β  As far as I know, the OP does not believe in the pro choice.Β  In other words, there should be no choice regarding abortion.Β  If there is no choice (OPs view) regarding abortion, why should there be a choice regarding vaccines?

I agree with the other person in that if the medical condition is severe, there should be an exemption.Β  If the condition would not put their lives at risk, then the best decision from a financial standpoint, would be to get the vaccine.Β Β 

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  • Analyst 1 in Consulting
Oct 13, 2021 - 8:35am

Lmfao imagine paying over a million dollars in fees because you got too wrapped up in culture war bullshit. Considering they couldn't get a medical exemption, I doubt they both actually have a super legitimate reason to avoid it regardless of how they may portray it to you. Most people who get triggered by culture war stuff just waste their time getting angry on Twitter or something, but these guys really let themselves get tricked into losing all that money (and maybe their jobs) over something that simply does not matter very much. Genuinely hilarious stuff

Oct 13, 2021 - 8:44am

answering the question:Β But don't you think people should have a choice?

YES, people should have a choice

YES, if your sister & her husband got a doctor's note saying "look guys, because of this and the fact we still have strong antibodies, c'mon man, we'll test regularly but my doc tells me not to" then the company should accept that

at the same time, I don't like the idea of government telling private businesses what they can and cannot do, let the free market govern. I don't like mandates, and I don't like laws telling private companies what they can't do. specifically, I like that TX is challenging the feds, and while I don't like mandates, I also worry that gov't banning things is a slippery slope

also abortion/vaccine is a false dichotomy because abortion has no multiplicative effects outside of twitter

Oct 13, 2021 - 10:36am

That's fine. Assume the point OP was trying to make was that you should have internal consistency, i.e. you can only be pro-vaccine mandate if you're also pro-life, or else you're a hypocrite. Considering we don't know OP's thoughts on abortion (or anyone else's in this thread), it really seems like a moot point.Β 

Oct 13, 2021 - 10:36am

yes I agree on internal consistency, also important is the recognition that these are different domains, isolated & multiplicative, so OP's opinions on abortion are irrelevant to this discussion unless we're talking about government regulations, in which case one should favor all, none, or only mandates for things that pose societal risks (as pandemics do), as I believe government regulations do have multiplicative effects (add a regulation, doesn't work, add more instead of slashing crappy ones)

abortions are isolated like car accidents, gunshot wounds and heroin overdoses. if I get into a car accident it doesn't make my wife more likely to get into an accident, but if I get covid, it does increase her likelihood and the possibility of spread is exponential. assuming the vaccines work as described, the multiplicative effect also works in reverse. if they work, I get the vaccine and my likelihood of getting covid goes down or at least I am symptomatic for a smaller amount of time thereby reducing my propensity to spread and reducing spread in an exponential way (again, in theory). therefore, your choice on the vaccine has a direct effect on those around you, again assuming they work as described, so your opinions being different in this domain from opinions in an isolated domain doesn't necessarily mean someone's being inconsistent

  • Associate 2 in PE - Other
Oct 13, 2021 - 10:12am

A private company's mandate has zero to do with "Communist China".

They lost their upper-middle class jobs because of a personal choice and decided to sink 7 figures into a lawsuit? Oof…

Oct 13, 2021 - 10:36am

I hope they win. Very surprised to see people cheering on government mandates.Β 

Thanks yeah - I somewhat disagree with my sister on this, but am not for government mandates.

I think they will win and get back their lawyer fees.Β 

"If you always put limits on everything you do, physical or anything else, it will spread into your work and into your life. There are no limits. There are only plateaus, and you must not stay there, you must go beyond them." - Bruce Lee

Oct 13, 2021 - 10:26am

Does anyone else find it ironic that libs are constantly painted as snowflakes when conservatives (or whatever OP is) are constantly making posts in an attempt to create a safe space for their misinformed views? Vaccination is a public health issue. No one is trying to harm your family. There is no big lie.Β 

Oct 13, 2021 - 10:36am

Rumple4skin

Does anyone else find it ironic that libs are constantly painted as snowflakes when conservatives (or whatever OP is) are constantly making posts in an attempt to create a safe space for their misinformed views? Vaccination is a public health issue. No one is trying to harm your family. There is no big lie.Β 

I'm very pro-vaccine, but the misinformation is replete on both sides. The way these vaccines work is that they protect the person getting the vaccine. By the looks of it, the vaccine doesn't protect others from getting the virus from the vaccinated. IF the vaccine actually protected people other than the vaccinated then it would be a commons issue.Β 

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Oct 13, 2021 - 10:36am

Direct from the CDC:Β 

  1. Variants are expected. The best way to slow the emergence of new variants is to reduce the spread of infection by taking measures toΒ protect yourself, including getting a COVID-19 vaccine when available.

When you get the vaccine, you reduce the potential population where COVID-19 can run wild. As long as there is a significant unvaccinated population, we will inevitably have new variants emerging, which pose an increasing threat to BOTH vaccinated and unvaccinated people. So the idea that vaccinations aren't a public health issue is confusing to me. Not to mention, if you're pro vaccine why would you lend credence to arguments being used to discredit it?Β 

Oct 13, 2021 - 10:27am

How is this different than pro-choice? My body my choice right? So pro-choice is cool for abortions but not for vaccinations? This case could go to the Supreme Court.

No, this is entirely consistent with the pro-choice movement. They use force (and violence) to end the life of a human fetus for their personal convenience. They have no problem forcing choices on you for their personal convenience either. Don't see anything hypocritical here.

Why would someone, who doesn't care about a human fetus with a beating heart and all essential human organs, possibly care about whether the vaccine is dangerous for your sister? The pro-choice movement is all about ME ME ME and let's not think too hard about the possibility that I'm ending a life. As long as it helps ME and hurts a human being that I don't have to see, then you're perfectly in line with the viewpoint of "pro-choice".

Oct 13, 2021 - 10:36am

In general, I think teachers who don't believe in science, nurses who don't believe in health, and cops who don't believe in public safety should be fired.Β  We would be better off without them anyways.

However, it is stupid that there is no medical exemption at this particular company.Β  That doesn't mean vaccine mandates in general are bad, if they have health issues and are running around with tons of other unvaccinated employees who didn't get the shot because microchips or Bill Gates, then they are very much at risk.Β 

Oct 13, 2021 - 10:36am

Drumpfy

In general, I think teachers who don't believe in science, nurses who don't believe in health, and cops who don't believe in public safety should be fired.Β  We would be better off without them anyways.

However, it is stupid that there is no medical exemption at this particular company.Β  That doesn't mean vaccine mandates in general are bad, if they have health issues and are running around with tons of other unvaccinated employees who didn't get the shot because microchips or Bill Gates, then they are very much at risk.Β 

Vaccine mandates are bad in general. Let them recommend vaccination.Β 

What's next? The government mandating all of us get a chip in our wrist?

Beware of mandates - the decision should be made by the person due to free will and civil rights.

"If you always put limits on everything you do, physical or anything else, it will spread into your work and into your life. There are no limits. There are only plateaus, and you must not stay there, you must go beyond them." - Bruce Lee

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"If you always put limits on everything you do, physical or anything else, it will spread into your work and into your life. There are no limits. There are only plateaus, and you must not stay there, you must go beyond them." - Bruce Lee

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