My sister and her husband forced out of an airline due to Covid mandate

- My sister and her husband are both Captains at a major airline. They both have had health conditions that enable them to fly, but their doctors both recommended a vaccine would be risky for them. They both have had Covid so have the Covid antibodies.

They and a couple thousand people are suing the airline and my sister and her husband are $1.5M deep in legal fees. They will lose the money if they lose the case.

How is this different than pro-choice? My body my choice right? So pro-choice is cool for abortions but not for vaccinations? This case could go to the Supreme Court. They have the hearings in TX currently and the TX governor just stated an executive order pasted above.

For the record I am pro vax and generally do not fear too many bad things from getting vaccines. I got mine as soon as I could.

But don’t you think people should have a choice?

 

They won’t even give employment benefits. They don’t want to fire people. They are giving people “indefinite leave.”

Is this Communist China? What country does this?

"If you always put limits on everything you do, physical or anything else, it will spread into your work and into your life. There are no limits. There are only plateaus, and you must not stay there, you must go beyond them." - Bruce Lee
 

I asked my sister if my brother in law is pissed and she said - nah - he just plays golf everyday now.

"If you always put limits on everything you do, physical or anything else, it will spread into your work and into your life. There are no limits. There are only plateaus, and you must not stay there, you must go beyond them." - Bruce Lee
 
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Obviously not a great situation to be in, but here's the truth (bracing myself for the MS)...if the health condition really contraindicated vaccination altogether they would have received a medical certificate saying so and making then exempt. Since it does not appear to be the case, just get the damn vaccine. Also saying "the COVID vaccine is risk" is vague as hell. You have 4 to choose from, all of which can be better for certain patient groups. My recommendation would be to just get their doctor to tell them which is the least "risky" and get it. Being $1.5M deep in legal fees because of the desire to not have a vaccine that hasn't been outright contraindicated seems like much more effort than taking the damn thing.

 

I do not understand the analogy to abortion, especially since the OP is not pro choice.  As far as I know, the OP does not believe in the pro choice.  In other words, there should be no choice regarding abortion.  If there is no choice (OPs view) regarding abortion, why should there be a choice regarding vaccines?

I agree with the other person in that if the medical condition is severe, there should be an exemption.  If the condition would not put their lives at risk, then the best decision from a financial standpoint, would be to get the vaccine.  

 

Lmfao imagine paying over a million dollars in fees because you got too wrapped up in culture war bullshit. Considering they couldn't get a medical exemption, I doubt they both actually have a super legitimate reason to avoid it regardless of how they may portray it to you. Most people who get triggered by culture war stuff just waste their time getting angry on Twitter or something, but these guys really let themselves get tricked into losing all that money (and maybe their jobs) over something that simply does not matter very much. Genuinely hilarious stuff

 

answering the question: But don't you think people should have a choice?

YES, people should have a choice

YES, if your sister & her husband got a doctor's note saying "look guys, because of this and the fact we still have strong antibodies, c'mon man, we'll test regularly but my doc tells me not to" then the company should accept that

at the same time, I don't like the idea of government telling private businesses what they can and cannot do, let the free market govern. I don't like mandates, and I don't like laws telling private companies what they can't do. specifically, I like that TX is challenging the feds, and while I don't like mandates, I also worry that gov't banning things is a slippery slope

also abortion/vaccine is a false dichotomy because abortion has no multiplicative effects outside of twitter

 

I hope they win. Very surprised to see people cheering on government mandates. 

Thanks yeah - I somewhat disagree with my sister on this, but am not for government mandates.

I think they will win and get back their lawyer fees. 

"If you always put limits on everything you do, physical or anything else, it will spread into your work and into your life. There are no limits. There are only plateaus, and you must not stay there, you must go beyond them." - Bruce Lee
 

Does anyone else find it ironic that libs are constantly painted as snowflakes when conservatives (or whatever OP is) are constantly making posts in an attempt to create a safe space for their misinformed views? Vaccination is a public health issue. No one is trying to harm your family. There is no big lie. 

 
Rumple4skin

Does anyone else find it ironic that libs are constantly painted as snowflakes when conservatives (or whatever OP is) are constantly making posts in an attempt to create a safe space for their misinformed views? Vaccination is a public health issue. No one is trying to harm your family. There is no big lie. 

I'm very pro-vaccine, but the misinformation is replete on both sides. The way these vaccines work is that they protect the person getting the vaccine. By the looks of it, the vaccine doesn't protect others from getting the virus from the vaccinated. IF the vaccine actually protected people other than the vaccinated then it would be a commons issue. 

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Direct from the CDC: 

  1. Variants are expected. The best way to slow the emergence of new variants is to reduce the spread of infection by taking measures to protect yourself, including getting a COVID-19 vaccine when available.

When you get the vaccine, you reduce the potential population where COVID-19 can run wild. As long as there is a significant unvaccinated population, we will inevitably have new variants emerging, which pose an increasing threat to BOTH vaccinated and unvaccinated people. So the idea that vaccinations aren’t a public health issue is confusing to me. Not to mention, if you’re pro vaccine why would you lend credence to arguments being used to discredit it? 

 
Rumple4skin

Direct from the CDC: 

  1. Variants are expected. The best way to slow the emergence of new variants is to reduce the spread of infection by taking measures to protect yourself, including getting a COVID-19 vaccine when available.

When you get the vaccine, you reduce the potential population where COVID-19 can run wild. As long as there is a significant unvaccinated population, we will inevitably have new variants emerging, which pose an increasing threat to BOTH vaccinated and unvaccinated people. So the idea that vaccinations aren't a public health issue is confusing to me. Not to mention, if you're pro vaccine why would you lend credence to arguments being used to discredit it? 

And yet breakthrough infections are incredibly common. The vaccines are not slowing the spread of DELTA variant of the virus. The vaccines very much slowed the spread of the ALPHA variant, but the Delta variant hit the U.S. before there was widespread immunity. The problem is, a lot of these websites haven't been updated in the last 90 days to reflect the new data.

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I mean, you get my point right? The longer we have large unvaccinated populations, the more easily new variants will emerge. And they will be increasingly dangerous to people who are vaccinated too. I don’t really get what you’re trying to say here, unless it’s that people shouldn’t get vaccinated because the delta variant is more dangerous than previous variants (which doesn’t make any sense). 

 
Rumple4skin

I mean, you get my point right? The longer we have large unvaccinated populations, the more easily new variants will emerge. And they will be increasingly dangerous to people who are vaccinated too. I don't really get what you're trying to say here, unless it's that people shouldn't get vaccinated because the delta variant is more dangerous than previous variants (which doesn't make any sense). 

1) 6.5 billion people aren't vaccinated. Covid variants WILL emerge regardless if the U.S. is at 100% or 0% vaccination rate. The idea that we need to force all Americans to get the Covid vaccine to prevent variants is asinine.

2) Variants tend to be more transmisable but less deadly. Covid-19 will eventually evolve into a common cold. Pretty much everyone is going to get Covid. 

3) Because the current C19 vaccines protect the vaccinated but don't prevent infection or transmission, the argument that vaccines should be required due to externalities fails the logic test. 

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Where are you getting these facts?

First of all, >3.7B people have received a COVID-19 vaccine. That's ~49% of the global population, based on data from the University of Oxford (Our World in Data project).

Second, seems you agree that vaccinations reduce the potency and speed of new variants. Your point is that since we can't 100% guarantee the elimination of all variants, we shouldn't impose on people's freedoms with a vaccine mandate. This is wrong. There is a strong precedent for vaccine mandates in the US, and no good reason to prioritize personal freedoms over public health in this particular pandemic, which has killed 720K Americans so far.

Third, again, this isn't true. The COVID-19 vaccines reduce infection and transmission, and most importantly. they reduce the potency and speed of new variants by reducing the population in which the virus can freely spread and mutate.

 

1) By your own admission, ~4 billion people are unvaccinated. Explain to me how you think forcing all Americans to vaccinate will prevent the rise of new variants globally? There are already variants of Delta circulating around. Again, the logic here is nonsensical.

2) There is strong precedent for vaccine mandates in the U.S.; there is no reason for a vaccine mandate with respect to Covid-19. You have not articulated an externality with respect to those who choose not to get vaccinated. The vaccine protects the vaccinated; it doesn't protect the unvaccinated.

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How is this different than pro-choice? My body my choice right? So pro-choice is cool for abortions but not for vaccinations? This case could go to the Supreme Court.

No, this is entirely consistent with the pro-choice movement. They use force (and violence) to end the life of a human fetus for their personal convenience. They have no problem forcing choices on you for their personal convenience either. Don't see anything hypocritical here.

Why would someone, who doesn't care about a human fetus with a beating heart and all essential human organs, possibly care about whether the vaccine is dangerous for your sister? The pro-choice movement is all about ME ME ME and let's not think too hard about the possibility that I'm ending a life. As long as it helps ME and hurts a human being that I don't have to see, then you're perfectly in line with the viewpoint of "pro-choice".

 

In general, I think teachers who don't believe in science, nurses who don't believe in health, and cops who don't believe in public safety should be fired.  We would be better off without them anyways.

However, it is stupid that there is no medical exemption at this particular company.  That doesn't mean vaccine mandates in general are bad, if they have health issues and are running around with tons of other unvaccinated employees who didn't get the shot because microchips or Bill Gates, then they are very much at risk. 

 
Drumpfy

In general, I think teachers who don't believe in science, nurses who don't believe in health, and cops who don't believe in public safety should be fired.  We would be better off without them anyways.

However, it is stupid that there is no medical exemption at this particular company.  That doesn't mean vaccine mandates in general are bad, if they have health issues and are running around with tons of other unvaccinated employees who didn't get the shot because microchips or Bill Gates, then they are very much at risk. 

Vaccine mandates are bad in general. Let them recommend vaccination. 

What’s next? The government mandating all of us get a chip in our wrist?

Beware of mandates - the decision should be made by the person due to free will and civil rights.

"If you always put limits on everything you do, physical or anything else, it will spread into your work and into your life. There are no limits. There are only plateaus, and you must not stay there, you must go beyond them." - Bruce Lee
 

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"If you always put limits on everything you do, physical or anything else, it will spread into your work and into your life. There are no limits. There are only plateaus, and you must not stay there, you must go beyond them." - Bruce Lee

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