Breaking into IBD
Hey guys,
First time on this site, I'm currently a junior at a non-target who just realized I wanted to do IB. While we have a decent number of alums in IB, my school is by no means a target or even semi-target.
To make things worse, I have a 3.25 GPA, which I know is a deal-breaker at many banks right off the bat. However, I have a few internships in marketing (my previous major) which I can spin to make sound more finance-related, as well as several contacts at banks that I have made through networking and my family/friends.
My question is, if I know I want to do IBD as soon as possible, and then move on to the buy-side (ideally HF), what is the best course of action for me right now? Get an internship this summer in banking (not necessarily IB) then move on from there as a lateral hire? Or work in real estate? Search funds? Accounting? And should I then get a Masters in Finance to get an internship?
Basically, I've done my reading and realize there are other ways to break into IBD for people that miss the undergrad junior summer internship train, but is there a "best" industry to use to break in? Or firm? If it's worth mentioning, I'm Indian, so would that help in any way for firms looking for "diverse" interns?
Also, do I still have a shot at boutiques that don't hire till January?
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks
I counted ten questions in your post. Ten. Questions.
Like I said, any help is appreciated.
You should list POKEMON GO on your résumé!
With a 3.25, you're basically telling banks that you're not serious about your work. I would suggest getting an MSF at a top school (will be difficult given your GPA). It can be done, but you will have to put in the work. Also, please concentrate on getting a SA before you start talking about "moving to the buy side". If you think getting in IB is hard, imagine what the HF process will be like.
How to land a career in investment banking (Originally Posted: 11/12/2017)
I am a software engineer , 7 plus years exp, with an advanced degree. I am planning to focus on MBA with finance from top 20 b schools so that I can get a career in the Investment banking sector. Does an MBA , from top school with years of experience in software helps you to focus on investment banking. Does an MBA helps you to get a job in Wall Street. I currently work in a finance farm out of new york at midwest, and due to too much work pressure(I even work over weekends), I am thinking of leaving job and concentrating fully for GMAT. Provided I will be jobless for 2 months, How much will it effect admission to B schools?
Thank you for this reply. I understand my GPA is low, but luckily I'm still halfway through undergrad so I can raise it to a 3.5+ if I do well from here on out.
To clarify, the only reason I mentioned going over to the buy side at all was to give as much information about my future intentions as possible, in case that changed any recommendations as to what I should be doing now.
Before getting an MSF, what kinds of internships/jobs would you suggest I look at?
too much work pressure because of working on weekends?
Investment bankers work 100+ hours a week, and there is no such thing as a "weekend" "vacation" or "holiday". And software engineering has nothing to do with banking. I suggest you think/research a little harder before wasting 200k on b school.
Your best bet is to try and find a small local investment bank that you can intern at. Recruiting for summer analysts is basically over, and if you can get some IB experience, raise your GPA and network, you can potentially recruit for full-time.
Trying to break into Investment Banking (Originally Posted: 09/17/2010)
Hi guys,
I'm looking to break into investment banking, and i would appreciate your feedback.
I graduated back in 2009 in the States at a top school with above average grades in economics. Back then I wasn't too interested in investment banking and the long working hours, so I took a job in operations at a non-bank financial services firm in Hong Kong. No FO internship experiences either.
Big mistake, and now I'm trying to rectify it, but it seems almost impossible to break in. I've tried networking, but its been slow, and its been hard to land a job here especially since I don't have native-level fluency in any Asian language (most of the boutiques here ding me during round 1 interview when they find out my mandarin is not fluent / cantonese is non-existent)
I've applied online to the BBs online to the class of 2011, and in the meantime I've gotten a few offers in the following.
Do you think taking any of these job offers would help me go into IB/PE in Asia in the near future? I have heard people saying that taking a BO/MO position at a BB and networking might be an option, but I think the BO/MO offers I got are located in different locations to the FO positions.
Any feedback would be very much appreciated.
So, taking BO/MO wouldn't really help. I have been exactly in your situation but in the states. I graduated took a role in MO till now. Just got an offer to a boutique IBD gig. So took me 1.5 years and lots of networking and luck to get there. You just have to try really hard. I would suggest looking back in the states for boutique rather then in Asia, as most Asian PE/IB shops look for more experienced hires.
So your best bet is looking in U.S. None of the above offers would really help you get into IB, but Cash Equtiies Trading(If it's not MO) will get you to trading, which can lead to hedge funds and portfolio manager position later in your career.
I really don't suggest the BO?MO route, most people once in get stuck in there forever. It's the job title and skill set that matters more so than then BB name.
If you networked a lot in the past six months and had alumni backing you up at some of the more well known banks, you might have a shot there. my junior year I had a 3.37 and networked into two BB interviews (dinged at superdays on both). however since recruiting is basically over for all of the banks with structured internships, youll want to hit up regionals, PE shops, and tiny boutiques. @boulders739 pretty much said it best, but I might add to start networking with places for full time as soon as you know what your doing this summer, because FT recruiting fuckin sucked this year
Breaking into the IB industry help please (Originally Posted: 02/22/2012)
A little background:
I come from a non-target with a low gpa (above 3.0 but below 3.3) I have a bachelors in finance I am determined to break into the IB industry
I have a phone interview with a guy that has done IB, PE, HF, and everything in between including working as a recruiter. The interview is this weekend and If I can do a good job then he will forward me to some of his current recruiters as-well as some current bankers.
I am working on preparing as well as possible and have thus far done the following
-Reading through both the behavioral and technical question guide from WSO -Reading through Rosenbaums, "Investment Banking: Valuation, LBO, M&A" -Doing extra studying on EV, EBITDA, and WACC -Reviewing my resume and making sure I can speak for each item -Browsing the forum and reading as much as possible to take in additional knowledge
I am currently about halfway through the behavioral guide and the IB book with 30 hours of combined time to finish them. Then I will quiz myself with some of the technical questions from the guide provided here. I am reading everything slowly and thoroughly.
Also incase it does not work out this weekend I have been working on building my network again. I was wondering if it is considered bad to network with people you may not know. I have very few alumnus from my school in IB and the few (less than 5) that are seem to ignore my attempts at speaking with them, may be busy or something though.
Is there anything else I can do to prepare? I am dedicated and motivated to break into the industry and stubborn enough to pick NYC as where I want to go. (also have a cousin that lives there so I could live for cheap and I am from the other side of NY )
Thanks for reading all of this.
Expand your network.
Talk to more people. Keep at it.
What would you recommend when it comes to networking with people that you have no real connection to?
I ask because outside of my interview this weekend and my buddy at W&M I am left with no related party networking contacts. I think there is a good chance this weekend will lead to more though.
From my experience it's exactly like picking up chicks...aka a numbers game. Shotgun approach to everyone remotely related to the industry, BUT BE SINCERE, and hound those that have a pulse. People will talk to you, most will ignore you, but if you contact 1,000 people a month you will have leads.
A little more background info would be helpful:
How "non-target" was your school? If it's a big school, there will definitely be more alumni in the industry, so keep searching. Also, if you have no other option but to contact people you have no connection with, I would definitely make that effort. The worst that can happen is that they ignore your emails. And of course be polite, respectful, and courteous, but all that should go without saying. Additionally, you should pick up The WSO Networking Guide. When I was trying to break in, my response rate definitely increased having read it.
When did you graduate? The further out of school you are, the tougher it will be to break in unless you go to b-school.
Again, as WalMartShopper said, this is a numbers game. I'm convinced almost anyone can break in with the right attitude, tools, and luck. Just keep your nose to the grindstone.
@WalMartShopper: Is there a chance that talking to the wrong person could hurt my employment opportunities? If I find a VP or MD on LinkedIn and contact them could it hurt me if they felt like I was trying to use them?
@Aragorn: My school is very non-target but large in size. I have found about six or seven people in the industry but I do continue to look. I graduated last May. I will get the networking guide and review it this weekend.
That guide will likely benefit me because I feel like I word my initial contact message wrong because I do not get very many replies.
Is it better to use LinkedIn or find work e-mails and send my initial contact there? Other help and advice appreciated!
Thanks
These days, even Ivy kids are having trouble breaking in. You really should be more open to non-NYC finance jobs. If you're single, there is absolutely no reason why you shouldn't be able to move somewhere for a job. Remember, there is finance outside of NYC. And if for some reason you can't move, then you could leverage those other offers to help you land something in NYC.
Network, Network, Network. Feel free to PM me, I come from a non-target as well, sub 3.5 GPA, liberal arts major and was able to land a FT MM IBD position.
If you are a non-target with no relevant experience and you manage to get an offer and the place seems at least somewhat legit, take the offer and worry about networking into a better position after you've been there 9 months to a year.
Obviously, that is an unlikely scenario. I was simply saying that if he could not move (if he had a wife and kids), then that is his best (and only) shot at landing a finance gig in NYC.
@Leonidis: I agree, I am going to work my ass off so I am going to aim for NYC but I could also do DC, richmond, and Boston as I have a means of getting there with ease. Also, that should open up the amount. How hard is it to move from one of those places to NYC in the future after working as an analyst?
@Pike: I have pmed you. I would love some networking tips. I am looking to either do an off season internship or maybe a fall internship to get my foot in the door. I would love a FT offer as an analyst but don't they usually require at least some internship work first?
@aempirei: How easy / hard is it to work your way from outside of NYC to inside it? I want to be there for the job but also because I am from NY, and I enjoy the city even with the minimalist amount of free time I would have.
@Leonidas again: If I have the knowledge base required to be an analyst/ intern as an analyst and can prove that, my motivation, drive, and work ethic. How hard would it be if I went extremely small time firm and worked my way into a more known Boutique or MM firm?
IMO, getting a finance gig when you already have one is exponentially easier. To get a strong finance base, you should consider heading over to M&I and purchasing the BIWS package, or getting the WSO one. In terms of difficulty, moving from non-NYC to NYC is quite challenging, and so is moving to a bigger/better firm. I'm not going to sugar-coat it, it will get hectic. But you shouldn't give up.
Your GPA will hurt you considerably, especially since you're from a non-target. Make sure to have an iron-clad reason why you don't have a 4.0.
Best of luck.
@Leonidas: Thank you, I have the behavioral guide offered by WSO. I was working 30+ hours a week while in school at a job that paid for part of my education while playing hockey full time on a AAA travel team and attending school full time. I have heard that letting them know you had a full platter can sometimes make up for the GPA if you have the skill set required all-the-while the reason also indicated that you have been in busy situations and are a well rounded candidate vs a bookworm. What are your thoughts on the subject?
Not getting an internship yet is not the end of the world. Work on your GPA right now, while starting/continuing to network with industry professionals. Reach out to alumni, cold email other analyst/associates at firms you are interested in and see if they will meet you for coffee. But focus primarily on positively impacting your GPA much as possible in the mean time. Other summer opportunities will come as you progress through your program so its best to start now. Also, which ever industry you want to focus on or that you're interested in, start reading up on it and understanding the market, how deals are done, what analysts look for etc. As long as you are knowledgeable, friendly and have a good attitude, you can land a gig in IB.
The whole diversity comment doesn't hold any weight, however if you can speak multiple languages, it may be to your benefit to look at getting in internship in another country where good talent is difficult to retain.
Hope that helps!
in need of guidance for getting into IB (Originally Posted: 12/30/2010)
Hello,
I just became interested in becoming an investment banker like a week ago. Since then, I've been doing tons of research on what I could/should do to improve my chances of becoming one.
Here's a little background info: I live in Los Angeles. I am currently a sophomore attending a non-target and majoring in business (concentration: financial economics). I have a 3.5 GPA. It appears that I'm already at a disadvantange... and my resume is pretty much empty.
I know that even if I was lucky enough to get an interview, I would pretty much fail the technical questions. How do people prepare for them? I am currently reading Investment Banking: Valuation, Leveraged Buyouts, and Mergers and Acquisitions by Joshua Rosenbaum and Joshua Pearl. I don't know how else would be able to learn IB related things... How do other people do it?
Do people that get offered internships already know tons about investment banking and modeling?
I plan to give myself a year to learn more about IB and apply for internships next year a junior when I will feel more ready. BUT, that still means that my resume would be empty. I have no idea what to do about it. I could try to apply to boutiques for an internship this summer.. but since I have zero knowledge on IB, I don't even think I would have a chance there. Should I still try to apply anyway?
I know I could get a job in China for the summer, but I don't know what I would be doing there though. I just know they sell expensive medical tools. I might be doing some office work, but definitely nothing IB related. I was thinking I might as well work because.. at least that gives me something to put on my resume. However, I read that if I could not relate it to finance, then it shouldn't even be on my resume. Should I work anyway?
I am going to start networking right away when school starts again (which is next week).
I'm sure you could tell that I'm pretty lost.. and discouraged. Could anyone offer me some guidance on what I could/should do? I will take the steps necessary, but the problem is I don't even have a clue what to do.
Use the search function
I am and have been using the search function. The problem is that it leads me to topics like why do non-targets even try.. lolol. If I did find a thread that answered my questions, I wouldn't be posting anything. I'm not trying to be a nuisance. I am looking for genuine help.
I would appreciate it if you could direct me to any topics that relate to mine... or suggest some useful keywords. Perhaps, I have been searching the wrong keywords.
network. your. butt. off. you might be able to get sophomore SA interviews as they're mostly fit questions, so you'll be fine. otherwise, apply to finance related internships and set yourself up for something nice junior year. keep you're chin up. you're on the right track bro.
What almost everyone here would tell you would be: -read the WSO technicals (all you'll ever need to know for any technicals in an interview) -the Vault guides to IBD, S&T, and Finance interviews (whichever of the three you feel led to most) -the Breaking Into Wall Street guides
That, along with immersing yourself in this site, particularly the IBD forum since that's what you said you're most interested in, ought to give you quite the framework for success.
It's not too late if you're a sophomore. Take the time to educate yourself on the industry over the next year. You don't need an IBD internship to get into IB, and few people land IBD internships their sophomore year. Focus on obtaining any finance internship this summer, but recognize it isnt the end of the road if you fail. Lastly, you don't want to be unemployed this summer, so if a finance internship falls through, take any office job you can get.
There are also guides that you can get for how to do well in interviews like the Breaking Into Wall Street series.
Also, since you seem to want to learn more about the industry, go to the I-Banking Bullpen and read all the threads. Literally, all of them, for the last year. Pay attention to what the people with the gold stars by their name say, they usually know what they're talking about (unless they're liberal and talking about politics, than they're morons ;)).
Good luck, asking questions here is a great place to start.
if you are in LA, try to get a term time internship at any sort of investment banking boutique/PWM shop, shouldn't be too difficult if you just brute force it and send out tons of emails/cold calls. This goes same for soph summer. Other than that keep learning, keep networking as much as you can and good luck.
Thank you all for your insights. I really appreciate it. @bchuid; I'm a not a bro. :)
At this point, I'm looking to work for a boutique. What would be a good finance internship to look for? I'm sure there are different divisions, so is there one that interviewers prefer over another? If so, what would it be?
Would they expect me to know certain things during the interview/internship?
--
How much do extracurricular activities really matter?
I had planned to join an investment club until I realized that it was pretty much dying.
There's also the option of joining a business frat (Alpha Kappa Psi or Delta Sigma Pi). I know the AKPsi in UC Berkeley won the Goldman Sach's case competition three years in a row (which looks good on a resume, I think). BUT, the AKPsi at my school (from what I hear) doesn't really do anything productive. I know it's a good way to network, but I heard that my school sort of just keeps to themselves (rather than networking with other schools)... so that's kind of useless.
If you were in my position, would you try to get involved anyway..? I know joining something isn't really anything too significant, but I'm trying to take little steps forward.
Okay, I'm going to answer with second-hand info here, but just so you know (as I said before), reading through all the threads on the IB forum will teach you a helluva lot and you won't be asking these questions.
I will start with this: There is a lot of misinformation on WSO. I don't work in the industry, so I may very well be giving you bad info. I will tell you that the information that I am sharing comes from those guys with gold stars by their names, pay attention to those people, as the star indicates they have proven they work for who they work for (this doesn't change the fact that this is second-hand information and you should double check it). You'll also notice some of the other posters without gold stars giving similar/good advice, once you figure out who they are, pay attention to those guys as well.
1) For getting into a boutique bank: Try and get any internship in finance you can this year. You'll probably have to offer to work for free. It doesn't matter where you work, just as long as you can get a finance job to put on your resume. Private Wealth Management is a good place to start looking for an unpaid internship. You could try cold-calling/emailing everybody who works in finance that graduated from your school. We always talk about networking here. You should do a search for networking on this forum, you'll find a lot of advice. Next summer's internship is what you're trying to build up your resume for. You will have to take what you can get as a lot of companies have already done their SA interviews (I believe). The best advice I can give you here is to search the alumni database at your school and see if you can find people around your school or your hometown that might be willing to give you an unpaid internship.
2) Extracurriculars are important. If you had read through the IB forum you would know that a 3.5 gpa is the cutoff for most banks to even look at your resume. To get to the interview you have to have something outside of academics that shows your motivation. This could be a varsity sport or president of a club on campus, but if you're really interested in finance there has to be some sort of options for you as far as finance/investing go. If there aren't, try and find an organization in the surrounding area that has what you're looking for.
3) Nobody on here as far as I have seen has replied to a question about joining a business fraternity with, "OMG I JOINED AKP OR DSP AND IT GOT ME A JOB AT GS". Especially if it's a meh branch of the frat, your time would be better invested somewhere else. That said, it may not help you get a job, but it won't hurt you (except for using up your time).
Now that I've answered your questions, go to the I-banking Bullpen and start reading please. Also, on this (Get A Job) forum, there are a number of topics that will help you with networking.
Looking to get into IB, need some advice regarding undergrad (Originally Posted: 10/07/2014)
Greetings fellow bankers,
I'll cut right to the chase...I want to get into banking, IB most likely but time will tell, and the time has come for me to choose a school/college to attend in which I plan on majoring in finance (undergrad). I'm transferring as a junior from a small, local, no name college on the East Coast and I've been accepted to my top three schools...Bentley University (Boston), Bryant University (RI), and University of CT (safety) now I'm weighing my pros/cons to each.
My question to you fellow monkeys is that...do you think it is worth it to attend a private school (such as Bentley/Bryant) and be forced to pay full tuition (no F/A, scholarships), or should I attend UConn which is significantly cheaper and just save that money for B-School some point after graduation? I'm just worried that attending a large state school, albeit saving a copious amount of money, will not provide me with the connections/opportunities a private uni will (although I've been told repeatedly UConn's undergrad B-school is ranked on par, if not higher than Bentley/Bryant).
I'm really torn between the decision and am hoping to gain some insight from this board. Any advice is greatly appreciated, hell maybe I'll consider sending a box of the finest Chiquita's to your doorstep if its that good...
Thank you all so much for commenting, these replies are very helpful. So it seems I may still have a shot with local boutiques, which is great to hear. I will definitely work on making connections there and see what I can do.
However, assuming I'm still not able to make my way in this summer, what other industries would you guys recommend for internships that I could leverage for FT recruiting? Or if I couldn't even do that, what industries I could use to move in as a lateral hire after working in said industry for a year or two?
Others will know more but based on what I've seen/read Bentley/Bryant are not target schools for recruiting so there is probably no real benefit to go there. I'd personally save the money and go to UConn
I think all three are non-targets. You're going to have to network your butt off regardless of which you choose. That being said, I'd go with the cheapest option available to save yourself from any added stress down the road.
That's what I meant. Given all are non-targets, no point spending extra money for no real recruiting benefit
Much appreciated guys! UConn is looking like the choice to be as of now, mainly because I don't see where the $55-60k for Bentley/Bryant provides any additional reward versus the $20k for UConn.
Open to thoughts/opinions...
Honestly, why don't you stay at your current school? If it's cheaper/same price as the others, there's really no point in transferring unless it's to a target.
I would but I'm looking for a change as the school's business program is lacking, severely to say the least.
Breaking into IB from a no-name firm (Originally Posted: 02/18/2015)
Hi everyone, I'm a frequent poster on this board but using another account for anonymity. Here is my current situation:
What I do is very interesting, and I make decent money. However, I don't have a 'passion' for what we do.
Ultimately, I see myself doing IB for a while (analyst/associate/vp levels..and MD if I'm cut out for it). However, I missed the boat while I was in school because of my bad GPA. How would I go about breaking in now? I have sent out my resume to no-name local boutiques in the area (Boston) to try and get interviews--but nothing has come into fruition yet. I figured it would be best to start at a local firm, then eventually work my way up to a MM shop, and then MAYBE to a BB if I have the opportunity or it seems like the right move. When I'm not working, I have been brushing up on technicals/my story in order to have everything down cold in interviews. Am I just going to have to bite the bullet and aim for a Top-20 MBA then break in at the associate level a few years down the line, or are there things I can do to break into IB in the near future?
Looking to hear some thoughts on what should be my plan of attack. Additionally, please feel free to PM me if you're looking for a bit more clarity since I didn't disclose much due to anonymity. Thanks a lot.
Target industry groups that are relevant to your niche. Reach out to them cold if needed.
You don't think that's too aggressive? We operate in what would be classified as FIG, and those groups tend to only be at established MM/BB's
I second what was mentioned above, focus on that niche and reach out to those groups/banks even if cold. Sure it maybe be a bit aggressive, but sometimes thats necessary. I think youre at an advantage because you already kinda work in the industry/sector so you dont have to reach out and say "hey talk to me and give me advice and a job" but instead you can approach it like "hey, we do similar work but youre more experienced, id like to talk about it and get some pointers".
So do I just cold e-mail/cold call someone like the MD of Barclays FIG...? And, @"Loki777" would you happen to know the names of any banks that specialize in FIG? KBW comes to mind, but looking on their website it doesn't seem like they hire analysts too often (I don't see a careers page to be found)
I would suggest cold calling the no name boutiques you've applied to and following up with them. Otherwise, it seems like an MBA the only way. Not entirely sure though
need advice to land myself in ibanking (Originally Posted: 04/27/2007)
Hi guys, i'm currently a undergrad from singapore, 6months from graduation, majoring in finance and marketing. I stumbled across this forum on research for a paper, and i must say i'm very attracted to the prospect of entering a BB, specifically to deal in M&A, or LBO with PE firms.
After going thru most of what the other monkeys posted, i find myself lacking the required level of academic qualification. I'm trying to give myself an edge by taking Arabic as my third language, i currently speak and write; in english and chinese fluently. my GPA is 3.7.
Can anyone give me some advice how should i achieve my desired job in M&A? anyone got contacts for such job opportunities? I'm willing to relocate anywhere in the world, well maybe except north korea haha.
Do you go to NUS?
in what sense do lack academics?
bluefinancer raises a good question. I've heard of NUS and SMU students making it into New York analyst and summer analyst spots.
Recommendations: - Become familiar with all the banks' recruiting timelines (in Singapore and abroad). I'm not sure, but I assume that recruiting for full-time positions in the Singapore offices takes place earlier in the year than in the US (September/October) due to the different academic calendar. - Your 3.7 (assuming it is out of 4) is in the right range. - I think most of the BB firms do recruiting presentations in Singapore for overseas offices. If you have any friends at target universities (example: NUS) who might have invitations, then I recommend you try to tag along and network.
I'm doing a degree from Curtin University of Technology, main campus located in perth western australia. I'm doing it in the singapore campus. I qualified for SMU, but rejected my place last minute, because i decided to go with curtin, due to the higher number of module exemptions, as i already have a Diploma in Marketing from Temasek Polytechnic.
I do have plenty of friends doing economics at SMU and NUS, but I will be graduating a year earlier than them, again due to my exemptions.
Great idea about tagging along, but will the recruiters even look at what i have to offer? since the supply from the target unis is much more than BB demand? heard of horror stories of smu grads ending up as librarians and fast food outlet managers.
need all the advice anyone can give.
Curtin University of Technology = No regard even in Australia
You should have either attended Univ of Melbourne or Univ of Sydney in Australia. It will be difficult to market your non-top tier Australian credential in my opinion. Especially, from oversees.
Best of luck.
I have a former school friend from Singapore who studied with me at Univ of Sydney, doing a honours course in Finance for undergrad. He is a complete badass and he succesfully landed a position through excessive networking and working his ass off.
The 1 year advantage is nominal. I would advise actually going to Australia and doing the 1.5 year Master of Commerce at Uni of Sydney or Melbourne.
That will make the Australian credential for undergrad relatively decent. From there, network and get in the door. I'm sure you are nervous because of your age (mid-20's at least due to military service) but I believe this is your best course of action.
I have a former school friend from Singapore who studied with me at Univ of Sydney, doing a honours course in Finance for undergrad. He is a complete badass and he succesfully landed a position through excessive networking and working his ass off.
The 1 year advantage is nominal. I would advise actually going to Australia and doing the 1.5 year Master of Commerce at Uni of Sydney or Melbourne.
That will make the Australian credential for undergrad relatively decent. From there, network and get in the door. I'm sure you are nervous because of your age (mid-20's at least due to military service) but I believe this is your best course of action.
you read my mind, its kinda worrying for guys after millitary service, to continue studying for 5-6 years(undergrad and masters). by the time we're done, we're already 27-28.
will its be advisable to do my masters part time in singapore, while i take on a ops role in bb maybe? looking at a graduate program with Uni NY.
I don't know about bluefinancer's comment.. I believe to land BB in Singapore will more attainble. To land a BB front-office at NY will be a bit of a stretch.
NUS is relatively unknown in New York, let alone SMU. And your GPA is rather low as NUS GPA is a 5 point scale... making your GPA actually 2.9/4.0.
Unless you have already computed your GPA to 3.7/4.0, I say NUS/SMU you have a rather good shot of landing a BB front office in Singapore.
Landing a job at an IBD (Originally Posted: 01/06/2008)
Does anyone think that I have a shot at landing a job at an investment bank with the following qualifications, i.e working an year, graduating from an average college with a 3.5 GPA & work responsibilities as follows (it is a cut & paste from my resume):
Litigation / Forensic Accountant- Associate
Responsible for applying business, accounting experience and knowledge to communicate complex financial and accounting information to parties involved in dispute resolution. • Working on business valuations. • Creating economic loss analysis. • In-depth reviewing and analyzing of financial statements, fairness opinions, valuations and researching companies and various industries. • Evaluating and calculating lost income and lost business value in connection with business failure. • Using Excel and other tools for financial modeling, organizing, analyzing and communicating financial and accounting data to parties involved.
Guess the more relevant question aside from your qualification is your industry contact / network...
http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/node/12186
Please follow the above link. I believe this is exactly the type of question Mr. White was referring to. The best way to know if you "have a shot" at an IB is to apply. If you can't get a job, then you will know that you did not currently have a shot. If you get a job, then yes, you had a shot, you took full advantage, and you got a job.
I read MR WHITE's post & I believe the thought isn't consistent with what I was asking.
The function of this forum as the title states is "Get a Job". It is meant to help prospective candidates or other people to ask questions before applying, any concerns they might have. People ask these questions as they believe that there are people who have already gone through the similar process & they can enlighten them.
My question was straight forward I wanted an experienced IB professional to let me know if I could get in the door applying directly considering my work experience.
But looking at the last response to the post I realize that this post also allows some extremely narrow minded & uneducated people to post & hence this would be my advice to people that come across them: "Just don't bother with these people as they don't know what they are talking about" as I'll just prove in the next para.
I read MR. WHITE'S post & in the middle it states "If you ask a question and the answers won't change the outcome, then don't ask it. If you ask a question and you don't accept critical/scathing answers, then don't ask"
Well Mr. "F9 - Update (Monkey, 36 Banana ShitPoints)" how did you figure out that a professional's response won't have changed my view about if I should have more relevant experience or not. I actually had this question posted on linkedin & I did get a lot of great responses from IB associates to VPs which were extremely helpful.
In conclusion, "F9" instead of wasting your efforts stating how useless this post is & one should go read this, if you were professional or had the ability to generate a thoughtful response you would've in just one line, but instead you chose to display your stupidity & level of your intelligence by meandering over why this post shouldn't be there.
Go suck up some more to MR WHITE & eat some bananas F9!
khawar383 -- You got a shot. Try to go in through connections and apply to MMs and boutiques. Cast a wide net and hope for the best.
Clearly you're missing the point. The only way to know if your experience is relevant to getting a job is to actually apply for one. What anyone here tells you is immaterial.
Your incredibly rude and childish response isn't helping you either.
Hey thanks for all the comments, as far as what someone has to say about my comment being rude or childish well its how you perceive it. It can either be enlightening or one can take it as offensive.
I would love to share with you what I received from a person that knew what he was talking about & also understood where I'm coming from it goes as follows & these are just some of the things conveyed in response to my question:
"Focus on being a strong candidate
aim to be 200% better than everyone else - make sure you are twice as good as other candidates from brand name school
most people I speak to don’t realize how important it is to be a very strong candidate, their focus is networking. Networking is not an end, it’s a mean. Networking will land you the interview but not the job. Remember that you are competing with some of the brightest people in this country. It is only when you are 200% better than a brand name school that people will stand up and fight for you."
I'm sharing this here not to put someone down, it is just for the people who might be in the same shoes as me to reflect on what a vp @ a BB with years of experience said to me. I'm sure any smart person can tell the difference in that person's response and the response of some people who just felt this post shouldn't be here.
I'm sure I can find out by applying to IB whether my experience is helpful or not, but why should one test the fire for themselves if they can learn it from someone who has been burnt!! Lets not try to invent the wheel again. For those of you who think I'm missing the point should ask themselves if they are missing my point!
Anyhow the bottom line is I got my answer :)
just curious: if everyone on the board told you that you had no shot, would that dissuade you from applying?
You know what they say about curiosity, it killed the cat.
Anyhow to answer your question, if someone on the board told me that I didn't have a shot & they gave me a valid reason as to why they thought it would be true, I would definitely put some thought into how I can overcome that obstacle. It wouldn't stop me from pursuing what I want but it would definitely give me a reason to better myself because in an interview I wouldn't want the interviewer to bring out that same point as a deficiency.
I rather be 200% prepared than to go wishfully thinking that I can ace anything.
The lesson that I learned here was that I had directed my question to the wrong crowd. I should have sooner talked about it to a person who I knew is at the top & who knows the ins & outs, & can give me a well thought out answer. A person that can lay out straight the good points & the bad ones.
Talking to you is like talking to a brick wall: you still don't get it.
You say that if we had said you had no shot, you would have given you "a reason to better myself in an interview." Why not always try to be as sharp as possible? And if you DID get an interview, you're clearly being interviewed because your resume is strong enough to get you into the door and your competency/experience is unlikely to be questioned.
As for the "advice" you were offered, it's pretty standard. You could probably pull the exact same advice from 8000 other posts on this forum. In fact, I'd venture to say that being "200% prepared" and being able to network are good skills for anyone seeking a job. Did you really need to be told that, and are you so placable that you think that's great advice?
On top of that, that "response" you got didn't even answer your damn question as to whether or not you had a shot! So are you just looking for people to reassure you?
-If you had read my post clearly it states that the advice was part of a response, in short it was not the whole page !
-"talking to a brick" I can say the same about you
-"reassurance"? No I wasn't looking for reassurance & the advice I got wasn't reassurance either.
-"the advice being great" Well at least someone tried instead of typing up an essay about how it is like talking to wall, & how your own opinion is the best!
And at no point did I say I didn't see your point or the point of someone else who said "Just give it a shot"
Everyone can give it a shot! even a high school kid can throw in their resume to find out if they can get a shot!
But wouldn't it be wise if he had asked around, if someone had told him hey !! you need a college degree to compete with the rest of the crowd !!!
Anyhow this whole discussion is very irrelevant to what I needed to know but thanks for posting, & maybe your time is better spent answering a post like "what shoes should I wear or how I should dress up" I believe this is one of the common ones I've seen around & I've seen a lot of people eager to post there.
If you are further expecting me to argue with you, I would be sorry to say that it won't be happening. I saw what you had to offer & you saw if I grabbed it or not, so lets leave it at that.
I know some of my remarks are witty but by no means I wanted them to be taken as offensive & I'm sure your response was out of good too.
Does anyone have list of MMs or Boutiques, I would like to apply for an IBD job as well
Strategies for Getting a Job in Investment Banking (Originally Posted: 12/10/2010)
Dear Members of Wall Street Oasis:
I am Abhi Malkan. I would be graduating very soon from Central Michigan University with an MBA in finance. I wanted to know how should I get into investment banking firms. For instance, since NY is the destination for pursuing investment banking opportunities, how should I network with people. We are familiar with LinkedIn, facebook, etc. But could some one give me ideas about some strategies that I could use to network aggressively.
Look through old threads - many people have asked the same question and gotten good answers.
How can one have an MBA and be so naive/ignorant?
Honestly, I think it would be a complete waste of time for you to attempt to break into IB (this is coming from a non target grad). You have an extremely low GMAT, non target MBA, and are lacking a firm grasp of the english language. This is not meant to put you down or say that your MBA isn't worth a shit, just pointing out the facts that with such a large applicant pool you will not be competitive. Try F500, gain some experience working your ass off and re-evaluate your situation. Take this with a grain of salt as i am a first year analyst just dropping in his 2 cents...
P.S. I banking is not the end all be all.
Lol, c'mon man, his English isn't that bad. I know plenty of Associates in IB that speak broken English
ouch... lol
"I would be graduating" "How should i get into investment banking firms", yes his english is that bad. Imagine him on the fly with some asshole VP drilling him about a DCF and valuation techniques. If he can't articulate his point on a forum he stands no chance in an interview. Speaking broken english is acceptable if you have stellar test scores and/or experience. The truth hurts, but i wish someone would have been honest with me before i pranced into my first SA interview with Ruby Tuesdays on my fucking resume.
Best non-IB offer to get into IB later? (Originally Posted: 03/07/2013)
I have two offers due tomorrow, both with BB but both in commercial. I would like to start at these, make my way to general upper MM or corporate banking and then get my MBA. DCM the ultimate goal.
1st is Comm. R/E for MM deals with a good group that is busy. Any concerns about starting in R/E? I don't necessarily like R/E but I love the people.
2nd is LOW MM business lending. The training is really good, but its a centralized role and no client interaction. On the flip side, lending to several different types of businesses all across the country.
Pay is only slightly different, so nothing to consider there.
I would probably go for option number 1 for IBD, the deal exp would help more than the pure lending. Also try to lean towards client experience so that you don't have to "prove" in future IBD interviews that "although you don't have client exp, that you are really ready for it" which can be tough.
Also, just out of curiosity, why DCM?
For option 2, how low is the MM lending in terms of client revenues? Also does the bank refer to this group as "Business Lending" or is it still "Commercial Banking" where you will be a credit analyst spreading financials, doing industry research, structuring loans, etc?
That's why I was leaning towards the R/E group, being around the underwriter and RM. Even if the analysis, isn't completely right. Is being closer to the client important for a lateral into Corporate Banking?
The LOW I'm referring to is Commercial Lending, not Business Banking but literally just above it. "90%" of the firms are 5MM to 50 MM in annual revenues, outliers were 3MM up to 75MM...
Yea thats tough. I'm not well-versed in the area of RE whatsoever, but I would have to assume trying to lateral from real estate to non-RE focused corporate finance type roles (i.e. IBD, Corporate Banking, Consulting, F500) is an easy jump but working in a good group at BB in a big city is a big help networking wise... and enjoying the people you work with and fitting in with everyone is huge (you mentioned loving the RE team).
Anyway I know you don't have much time but I wish someone with RE experience would chime in on this.
the general consensus is that RE tends to be very specialized and trying to dig out of that area will be difficult
Thanks. The Sr. VP of the R/E group is really cool, and did corp. banking for 10yrs. And to be honest, it's Wells. Lol, I would have a decent shot at the CTMP in San Fran.
These two reasons are making me lean towards the R/E spot.
Sounds like your gut is telling you to go with Wells
Advice question about getting into IB (Originally Posted: 05/31/2008)
I was referred to this site less than two days ago and I've been on it ever since, devouring all of the helpful information posted by all of you on these forums. I think it's really great that you guys are so grounded and willing to help other people who share your interest in the finance industry.
I have searched these forums and have not really found anything specifically related to the question I have for you.
I am a rising senior at a respectable Midwestern non-target school. I have an internship this summer with an small asset management firm in the Northeast. I would like to get a FT analyst position with a BB or MM investment bank. I am currently considering picking up accounting as a second major in addition to my finance major and statistics minor. This would push back my graduation to Fall '09 (December), but would give me another chance at landing a SA internship. How do you think this decision would affect my chances at earning a FT position? Do these banks ever hire in December or January?
Thanks in advance for your constructive comments and/or jokes at my expense :)
Hey there! As far as I know banks don't hire for January for US positions. If you apply to continental Europe, then maybe, but also unlikely. Australia hires all their starting analysts for January/February, if you are considering that. If I were you, I would not delay graduation and would just apply for FT offers. If you seriously don't get anything, which I would doubt, and if you really want that accounting major, then you can still add on another semester at that point. Also, if just one more semester would get you the second major, could you not overload the next two semesters and finish the accounting major? Or if that's not enough time, then you could declare the accounting major and take any additional classes next summer. Assuming your school's policy permits that of course.
I think this is pretty good advice. Go through the FT process initially, and if you completely strike out, push back your graduation and look at the accounting major as a way of going through the SA process.
Thanks for the advice guys, I appreciate it.
Getting a job in IBD as analyst (Originally Posted: 03/14/2011)
I am graduating this spring with a double major in accounting and finance I have a job with an accounting firm where I am going to try and get placed in their M&A and business valuation division. My GPA (3.25) was too low to get a job with a investment bank so I decided to work in accounting for 2 -3 years and get my CPA. In the long run I am going to try and go to a top 12 MBA but before that what can I do to increase my chance in getting a job as an analyst at an IB in NYC. I was thinking about taking math courses part time (applied calc 1-3, linear algebra, differential equations and probability) if I am able to take these classes with good grades will this help? What other things would be helpful in getting IB recruiters to look past my GPA.
I don't think math classes are a good use of time, money, or energy.
Have you considered the CFA? How many hours a week are you networking?
No one cares about math unless you're going to S&T. The math you do in IB is extremely basic
You'd be better served in brushing up on your accounting, valuation, capital structure, etc...
Math classes would not be helpful.
What is a top 12 MBA?
The reason why I thought the math may be helpful is because most job listings say strong quantitative and analytical skills recommended. I have not spending to much time networking since I accepted my job offer because my class load is demanding with 18 credits of all uper level accounting and finance classes. Would a ms in finance help me at all Baruch is very inexpensive and close to where I will be working so it would be easy to take night classes there.
ibd is all about prestige and style - brand name(school/work) matters, high number(gpa etc) matters
Yea that was a worry of mine with taking classes at Baruch because I know the IB's are all about prestige thats why I mentioned going to a top 12 mba program. "Eric Stratton" as you questioned that would be Harvard through NYU, slight differences per ranking administers
To the OP... getting a CPA unless you want to work in Corporate Accounting or as a CPA is a dumb idea. No one in banking will care that you have a CPA and will more likely than not grill you on why you don't want to work Big 4. Don't take linear algebra or "diff eq" either as these are a complete waste of time. You will never use any of the math skills taught in those courses in banking. What you should do is network like crazy. Your idea about getting your MSF is a good idea, though it is no guarantee and you still may only have a shot by re-branding through b-school. The best advice is just to network and try to stay as close to the circles as possible, and try to re-brand either through MSF or MBA, and hopefully you can do it with an MSF inside of a year to 18 months to minimize your risk of being seen as "too old/experienced."
Hope that helps...
Math classes are not going to help you. I don't think the CFA would do a lot either, but it would probably be better than math classes.
Stay for a few years in accounting and make sure to learn your craft the best you can + get your CPA. Accounting knowledge is extremely valuable in IBD and you'll have a useful skill set--- particularly if you can get into an M&A/Valuation division (that's actually critical).
It depends on where your 3.25 in finance & accounting is from... if it's NYU or something moderately target-ish I'm sure you'll have a good chance of getting into IBD once you're a CPA --- depending on the market at that time.
Help--what more can I do to get into an IB analyst class (Originally Posted: 06/01/2011)
I am a 2010 Michigan grad where I studied Biochemistry (3.5, 35 mcat). Although my undergrad was spent building a strong pre-med resume, I have spent the past 6 months focused on getting an entry level position in the financial services industry. The reasons for my career shit are irrelevant outside of an interview, but I'm desperate to join an analyst class in the next month. I'm prepared for an interview and have studied the markets and financial modeling for months, I just need that one shot.
I'm on a networking rampage and have sent letters and resumes to probably 25 managing directors at banks in New York and San Francisco. What else can I do to improve my chances of finding an in?
25 is not a "rampage." Step up your networking efforts.
I agree with buybuybuy; 25 contacts is not a lot at all. In fact, there was a time where I used to send out 25 e-mails a day.
Furthermore, I am concerned with your approach. What do you mean when you say you are sending out "letters and resumes to probably 25 managing directors?" I hope you are not doing that in the literal sense because you are demanding to be ignored. Whether it is networking in IB or doing pharmaceutical sales, you need more tact and diplomacy in your approach. Soften them up by sending them an e-mail requesting to chat about how they broke into banking and tapping them for insights. After you massage them a bit and developed some rapport, then (and only then) do you consider sending them resumes and cover letters.
Before you even tell me, I know that this will take a lot of time but you have no one else to blame for starting the game so late. Btw - never treat the MDs like HR and directly send them your application. Unless they ask for it, you are only annoying them and closing doors. Go with the method I suggested above and hopefully a few MDs will pity you and listen to your story. The key at this point is to play the pity angle. Lastly, you will need an amazing story. You can BS something but you will need to come up with something powerful of how you were gravitated towards finance and why you need IB (despite your years of preparing yourself to go into medicine).
Your networking strategy sucks, and as pointed out above - 25 is not a rampage. People on this forum probably attempt to contact 25 MD's an hour in the struggle to land a position. Not to mention, you are too late as most banks have hired their analyst classes (many of which come from their SA’s and the like) – why weren’t you attempting this last fall? You already are at a disadvantage as you have no banking experience, so the chance of somewhere hiring you is a long shot. You have an interesting background; you should be targeting banks / shops that would see your experience as a plus (healthcare groups, medical focused VC’s and the like – I will leave the rest for you to figure out). Linkedin is your friend – use the web to search for firms matching your profile and then search linkedin for contacts within.
The “pity” advice above is horseshit. No MD is going to pity you – tell your story in a compelling way without being a douche and you are sure to drum up some interest out there.
Lastly, Michigan is well represented on the street / industry – use this to your advantage and get to work.
From my experience, MDs are not as helpful unless you have a connection – go for analyst and associate alums as they are more involved in the recruiting process.
Can you talk to analysts from UM's MBA program?
it really all comes down to the person. the the op, I'd really gun for strategy consulting shops. they wouldn't mind your background and going from there to IB is less of a jump. plus who knows, you might even like it.
Getting into IB (Originally Posted: 02/01/2012)
I am majoring in computer science but while doing computer science i found interest in fiance after taking few economics courses and i have decided to do a minor in economics and major in CS (since my university dosen't offer double major from different faculty). Its not the best university but it has some good contacts in the CS field. Its in Canada. What do you think my chances are breaking in IB in Canada. i have a great gpa in minor of economics but my Major gpa is around 3.2.
bump
What year are you in? Which uni? Can you access internship postings? You may have to wait till after MBA
Need advice for getting into Investment Banking (Originally Posted: 06/03/2014)
First, I want to say that I’m not expecting to come on this website and get some magical advice that will
help me land a job at one of the top investment banks. I have very realistic expectations and I’m only
looking for some helpful advice.
A little background about myself. I graduated a couple years ago from a small liberal arts school
(Lynchburg College) with a B.A. with majors in Business Administration and Economics (GPA 3.2).
Since graduating I have been working at a small start-up CPA firm as a consultant which has allowed
me to gain experience in the business development process I may not have gotten at a larger firm as
a first year staff. I have been involved in all levels of proposal writing and meetings with high level
management. I just recently passed my CFE (Certified Fraud Examiner) and I’m working on learning a
foreign language.
If I want to break into investment banking at a smaller firm what is the next best step? Should I pursue
my MBA, MS in Finance, MA in Economics, or none of these? If so, what schools should I target? Are
there any other extracurricular activities I should get involved in?
Any feedback will be greatly appreciated. Thank you for your time.
Sorry for the formatting I copied and pasted from a word document.
First, I want to say that I’m not expecting to come on this website and get some magical advice that will help me land a job at one of the top investment banks. I have very realistic expectations and I’m only looking for some helpful advice.
A little background about myself. I graduated a couple years ago from a small liberal arts school (Lynchburg College) with a B.A. with majors in Business Administration and Economics (GPA 3.2). Since graduating I have been working at a small start-up CPA firm as a consultant which has allowed me to gain experience in the business development process I may not have gotten at a larger firm as a first year staff. I have been involved in all levels of proposal writing and meetings with high level management. I just recently passed my CFE (Certified Fraud Examiner) and I’m working on learning a foreign language.
If I want to break into investment banking at a smaller firm what is the next best step? Should I pursue my MBA, MS in Finance, MA in Economics, or none of these? If so, what schools should I target? Are there any other extracurricular activities I should get involved in?
Any feedback will be greatly appreciated. Thank you for your time.
Need advice for breaking into I Banking (Originally Posted: 05/10/2015)
Hey I am a finance major at Cu Boulder (non-target) and am looking for a way to break into Investment Banking. I am a rising junior and have a 3.55 gpa with a finance internship at a community center this summer. I am looking to secure a IB internship during the summer of my junior year with the ultimate goal of finding a job in the industry after I graduate. How can I best prepare myself for this? I plan on attempting to network with alumni through Linkedin next semester. Should i get another internship this upcoming semester? What else can I do to better my chances? Any help or advice would be appreciated.
All these questions have been covered many times over and you'll be able to find the answers by searching through the site. In short, for someone with your profile - non-target, pretty unrelated internship, (relatively) low GPA - IB is by no means impossible but it will be an uphill climb and you need to network as much as you possibly can to have a shot at breaking in. Good luck
As stated above, these exact questions have been beaten to death across the site. Also, change your username. I just found you on LinkedIn using it... and your LinkedIn says you're graduating in 2016. Doesn't that make you a rising senior?
Lastly, network now, not next semester. You'll be applying next semester.
Help! Trying to Break Into IB (Originally Posted: 06/15/2015)
Hi all. I've been wanting to get into ibanking for some time now, but I'm at a loss on even how to do that now. Would love any and all insight and advice.
I work as a financial analyst in corporate finance at a mid level role (I already have 1 year and 9 months work experience out of undergrad as a financial analyst in government administration).
The current role doesn't involve M&A, and is mostly financial modeling, forecasting, variance analysis, ad hoc reporting, month-end close process, etc. in the consumer goods industry. It's a big name fortune 1000 company, we do 2.1$ B yearly and are the industry leader in our specific business.
It's a great job and a huge improvement from the public sector, but it's not ibanking. The job is still fairly recent, I've been here less than 6 months.
Would this experience actually help break into ibanking? It's the best thing I could find coming from the public sector in a tough job market. I've tried networking but I lack the pedigree to be taken seriously. I don't have any internships in i-banking.
I'm coming from a non-target UC campus, degree in economics with a major GPA of 3.7
I've been considering the NYSF advantage program, but it seems shady since there are barely any success stories to be found aside from reviews that sound like they were taken out of a bad infomercial.
My only other option I would consider is waiting until grad school and trying to break in as an associate.
Tell me what some of you think. Is the current position I hold good/bad/irrelevant? Should I try making a horizontal move towards something more relevant (And if so, what move/position would that be? I've already tried applying/networking for analyst roles at boutiques, but zero replies bac due to lack of pedigree/experience). What I'm looking to do is position myself as best as I can into the i-banking industry.
Thanks.
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