Need Career Advice Badly!

Hi,

So basically, I go to a non-target school and I've messed up my first year pretty badly. I've had to transfer twice (once because I was out of state, and once the economy went to shit, it wasn't worth going OOS since I wanted to be a doctor and the other time I transferred because I wanted to do business and my new school has an infinitely better business school), and I haven't done so well with my GPA either.

But regardless, I'm not actually looking that much into investment banking. It's something that I would definitely consider, but, speaking with complete candor, it's kind of a dream at this point given my transfers and my sub-par first year. On top of that, it's a very stressful work environment, and I know that I can't tolerate the long hours and everything. So I was wondering, what are some other good careers in finance that are lower stress (I'm willing to work 60 with the occasional 70 hour week, but 80-100 regularly is not something I can handle), somewhat easy to break into from a non-target, aren't based off of sales or commission (I'm horrible at that shit), and can eventually net a good salary? By good salary, I mean eventually making 150-200k (yeah, I'm not as ambitious as most of you guys here).

Some things that have popped up are accounting, and even though I might major in that, I'm not sure how much public accounting appeals to me. Private might be cool, but public is extremely boring from what I've gathered, and you basically have to work in public for a while to get anywhere in accounting. Others have mentioned commercial banking, but that sounds like a sales job with all the cold calling, plus I'm not sure if I'd get into my desired compensation range in that industry.

Finally, someone mentioned corporate finance. That sounds very appealing to me, however, I'm guessing that you need to go to an ivy to get into that stuff. So what the hell should I do? Any suggestions?

 
Best Response

Your best options are: Corporate finance Commercial Banking Valuation (generally with Big 4, but there are some small specialty shops)

You certainly do not need a pedigree for corp fi. You can come out of a state school as long as you have a 3.2+ gpa. The standard corp fi route is to work for a large corporation in the financial leadership development program. You will get some training and then spend 2 years in different roles within the company. After that, you pick (or get assigned) a role.

Another option is commercial banking. I guess many functions fall under this umbrella, but I am referring to middle market lending for a bank like PNC, Regions, Sovereign or BB&T. You will start off with formal credit training, and then join the bank as a credit analyst or financial analyst. It’s sort of like a poor man’s I-Banking role. Instead of working on huge deals, you will be conducting analysis on companies for say, a ten million loan. The hours aren’t bad. Once you have experience in this field (and get the formal credit training) its fairly easy to get jobs with other banks. Some of the banks will call this a financial leadership development program or something similar. Its easier to break into than I-Banking.

Another avenue is doing valuations for Big 4 or for an independent shop. Here, you work as an independent third party and value companies in conjunction with transactions. Its pretty interesting work, in that you would get similar financial modeling and valuation experience as a banker, but not have to focus so much on pitch books and marketing efforts.

These 3 avenues are your best bets. I would suggest that you forget IB. It doesn’t seem like you are cut out for the hours, and frankly, it doesn’t seem like you could land an IB job anyway. You may want to forget other capital markets positions such as trading and equity research. ER has some pretty crappy hours as well, and trading seems f’ng stressful as all hell (I’m not knocking it traders!).

Hopefully, you can get your gpa to 3.2, as that will qualify you for most of the banking and corp fi positions. 3.0 will get you in some doors, though. Again, you can get into those fields from a non target. The hours are very reasonable, and you can def get to that 150-200k level – or better.

Good luck

 
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Your best options are: Corporate finance Commercial Banking Valuation (generally with Big 4, but there are some small specialty shops)

You certainly do not need a pedigree for corp fi. You can come out of a state school as long as you have a 3.2+ gpa. The standard corp fi route is to work for a large corporation in the financial leadership development program. You will get some training and then spend 2 years in different roles within the company. After that, you pick (or get assigned) a role.

Another option is commercial banking. I guess many functions fall under this umbrella, but I am referring to middle market lending for a bank like PNC, Regions, Sovereign or BB&T. You will start off with formal credit training, and then join the bank as a credit analyst or financial analyst. It’s sort of like a poor man’s I-Banking role. Instead of working on huge deals, you will be conducting analysis on companies for say, a ten million loan. The hours aren’t bad. Once you have experience in this field (and get the formal credit training) its fairly easy to get jobs with other banks. Some of the banks will call this a financial leadership development program or something similar. Its easier to break into than I-Banking.

Another avenue is doing valuations for Big 4 or for an independent shop. Here, you work as an independent third party and value companies in conjunction with transactions. Its pretty interesting work, in that you would get similar financial modeling and valuation experience as a banker, but not have to focus so much on pitch books and marketing efforts.

These 3 avenues are your best bets. I would suggest that you forget IB. It doesn’t seem like you are cut out for the hours, and frankly, it doesn’t seem like you could land an IB job anyway. You may want to forget other capital markets positions such as trading and equity research. ER has some pretty crappy hours as well, and trading seems f’ng stressful as all hell (I’m not knocking it traders!).

Hopefully, you can get your gpa to 3.2, as that will qualify you for most of the banking and corp fi positions. 3.0 will get you in some doors, though. Again, you can get into those fields from a non target. The hours are very reasonable, and you can def get to that 150-200k level – or better.

Good luck

Ouch, are you saying that I'm not smart enough to be an investment banker? Although I didn't do as well as I hoped my first two terms (finished with a 3.4 in pre-med classes), once I got my act together, I pulled off a 3.88. I only didn't do so well initially because for one, I thought I wanted to do pre-med, and two becuase I had to transfer, and then I was unhappy at the other place. I was also somewhat depressed about getting waitlisted for Cornell (I knew at that point that investment banking was all but done since I'd have to go to a non-target), and it took me a while to snap out of it.

EDIT: Sorry for snaping at you/being so defensive. That was really obnoxious of me. Ever since that waitlisting, I've become really irritable, so apologies for that.

But regardless, yes, I'm not really into investment banking, and you are right that I cannot tolerate the hours. What I'm wondering about is the typical career path for someone in commercial banking and for corporate finance, and what the typical compensation is at each step? Also, would an accounting degree work for both corporate finance and commercial banking, or would I have to get finance only (I'm thinking about an accounting degree so that I actually get a job, since finance people sometimes have trouble finding work)? Also, if I do finance, is an econ double major or a math minor helpful or would that just be superfluous?

One last thing: Are you joking about having a 3.2? Even though you probably think I'm a dipshit because I go to a state school, I can get a 3.2 without too much trouble (no e-brag since I go to a state school). I thought you need at least a 3.8-3.9 for all these finance positions since the good jobs are all very competitive. I am shooting for no less than a 3.7. If I finished with anything below 3.5 I'd commit suicide lol.

thanks

 

Commercial Banking =/= a sales job. I think you have it confused with Private Wealth Management. At the upper level, sure, sales is a very big component as is the case in most industries, but coming in you'd be doing finance related things (analysis, underwriting, etc.). And while I'm sure it depends on a number of factors, you'll definitely eventually be able to hit your desired salary range.

 
pantherdb26:
Commercial Banking =/= a sales job. I think you have it confused with Private Wealth Management. At the upper level, sure, sales is a very big component as is the case in most industries, but coming in you'd be doing finance related things (analysis, underwriting, etc.). And while I'm sure it depends on a number of factors, you'll definitely eventually be able to hit your desired salary range.

really? When I looked at the job description of a loan officer (one of the higher level positions), it sounded a lot like a sales thing where you get paid based off of how many people buy into your loan program. If it's what you and the other dude said it was, that sounds interesting, but sales is not something I'm good at. I like to work with numbers, not sell bullshit to people.

Also, is commercial banking/corporate finance good enough work experience to get into a decent MBA school? Again, I'm trying to be realistic, so I'm aiming for a place like UCLA, UT-McCombs, UNC, UVA, Duke with places like UMich and Cal being my reaches, so are those possible with that kind of work experience?

 
raidersfan88:
pantherdb26:
Commercial Banking =/= a sales job. I think you have it confused with Private Wealth Management. At the upper level, sure, sales is a very big component as is the case in most industries, but coming in you'd be doing finance related things (analysis, underwriting, etc.). And while I'm sure it depends on a number of factors, you'll definitely eventually be able to hit your desired salary range.

really? When I looked at the job description of a loan officer (one of the higher level positions), it sounded a lot like a sales thing where you get paid based off of how many people buy into your loan program. If it's what you and the other dude said it was, that sounds interesting, but sales is not something I'm good at. I like to work with numbers, not sell bullshit to people.

Also, is commercial banking/corporate finance good enough work experience to get into a decent MBA school? Again, I'm trying to be realistic, so I'm aiming for a place like UCLA, UT-McCombs, UNC, UVA, Duke with places like UMich and Cal being my reaches, so are those possible with that kind of work experience?

You seem to be pretty high strung and take things too personally. Don't snap at people who spend the time to answer your questions.

Everything is a sales job at the senior level. If you read the job description for a managing director in an investment bank, you would think that it's also a sales job. The truth is, it is. They sell M&A and capital raising services to companies and hope management bites so the bank can bring in fees. I almost never see the MD's in my office because they are always on the road meeting with clients.

At the junior levels in investment or commercial banking, you would be spending quite a bit of time putting together pitches (essentially marketing materials) but also a good chunk on financial analysis.

 

come on dude, I did apologize. I'll admit, I have quite a strong inferiority complex, but I apologized for it.

Anyways, any comments about the typical career paths for corp finance/commercial banking? Also, what I mean by sales is that I hate jobs that are based solely off of commission becuase I know that I wouldn't thrive at that. To take a small example, when I was younger, I was never good at selling chocolates or whatever the hell they made us do, so I know that if I was forced to do that for a career, it would not suit me, especially since I hate talking on the phone with people I do not know/who aren't expecting my call.

Also, how do these jobs compare to accounting? I hear that accountants make almost no money though, and the only time they clear 100k is after making partner, which takes 15 years, and after that, they hit a ceiling they cannot get past. So any comments about that? The thing tht appeals to me is that it is very stable (i.e. not as fickle as finance), you can work ANYWHERE (this is something very important for me. Although I like living in a big city, I'd like to work in Florida, Arizona, or some place like that which aren't exactly finance Meccas), but do they really get paid that poorly?

 

from what i know, accounting at big 4 starts out with a salary of 50-60. partners can make 300-500, a couple make more. so your perception of the pay isn't entirely accurate.

you may also want to look at asset management.

a note though -- you keep asking for the typical career paths for corp finance/commercial banking, and you're not going to find good info for that here. this is an ibanking message board, and that's what people know about and are experienced in. all the info you'll find about commercial banking will just be 2nd or 3rd hand at best.

 

from what i know, accounting at big 4 starts out with a salary of 50-60. partners can make 300-500, a couple make more. so your perception of the pay isn't entirely accurate.

you may also want to look at asset management.

a note though -- you keep asking for the typical career paths for corp finance/commercial banking, and you're not going to find good info for that here. this is an ibanking message board, and that's what people know about and are experienced in. all the info you'll find about commercial banking will just be 2nd or 3rd hand at best.

 
xqtrack:
from what i know, accounting at big 4 starts out with a salary of 50-60. partners can make 300-500, a couple make more. so your perception of the pay isn't entirely accurate.

you may also want to look at asset management.

a note though -- you keep asking for the typical career paths for corp finance/commercial banking, and you're not going to find good info for that here. this is an ibanking message board, and that's what people know about and are experienced in. all the info you'll find about commercial banking will just be 2nd or 3rd hand at best.

I really don't know where else I'm going to ask that though. I've tried endless googling to find another finance (that isn't so I-banking, MC heavy), or hell, even a half decent accounting forum, but I cvan't find shit. So you want to throw me a bone here? Plus, I'm sure SOMEONE here can help me out.

 

Once good place to start is to take a business writing class. You will not be given any quality answers unless you are specific in your questioning. It doesn't sound like you have researched any positions either. Maybe ask a finance professor. He is usually rather experienced.

But calm down and relax when you are asking for help. Have you ever read "The Catcher In The Rye"?

 

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