Need Help Planning Out My Goals...
I shall warn you, what is about to follow is a series of questions. Feel free to answer as many as you want (although the 3rd question is the most important to me, so please answer that if possible).
So the basics quickly:
I am going to go to UT-Austin (frosh this fall) and will start off as an econ major or CS major. Want to get into consulting preferably with an international firm because doing international work is most appealing to me (and yes, I know I won't go sight-seeing if I travel for work). My plan for college (I know, I might be starting really soon, but I messed up in high school because I had no goals, so I'm going to change that this time around) is to really demonstrate international-mindedness as a "hook" so to speak for undergrad hiring and for MBA (but that's a little far ahead).
Here are my questions:
1. Should I transfer? After I got waitlisted by Cornell, I knew I might need to move ASAP because UT isn't that great for recruiting, but do you think it's absolutely necessary?
2. Would you major in CS or Econ given that my school is only moderate (T25 I think) for Econ, and top 10 in CS? I think I'd honestly rather do econ, but my reservations about it are that I'm not sure what the hell I can do honestly if I don't get into a good consulting firm. I hear that F500 hire mostly finance majors, and econ majors are left out, yet other times I hear that you can do F500 stuff with econ, so I'd like this to be cleared up as well. Finally, I wouldn't mind doing tech stuff for a bit, but I'd really like to get into strategy, even if it's only after MBA.
3. Let's say that I don't make it into M/B/B (which is probably gonna happen), what are there fallback firms that I might get into? For example, I think in I-banking there are MM or "boutique" banks that one can get into, is there a similar deal in consulting? How hard are these banks comparatively to get into? Do they offer a comparable salary to M/B/B? Would these lead to good exit opps as well?
thanks, and sorry for the really long post, but please, at least help me with question 3 if possible.
PMd you
Stay at UT. have sex with as many of the girls there as possible and hold it over the heads of every single one of your ivy league co-workers in the future. they will be extremely jealous. get a stellar GPA from UT and you will be able to compete with anyone from any school.
go for Comp Sci. that is a real major. Econ is a bullshit major for failed math/science majors or people that want to do business but dont really want to do any hard work. people will recognize this. better yet, be an engineer.
if you want to do something international, you will need to know aniother language. fluently. if youre somewhat lazy, go romance language but realize you will have to know this perfectly to be competitive. if youre really ambitious, go chinese, but this will likely take years. white people that know chinese are a hot commodity over there.
dont worry about fallback ideas yet. just get a good GPA and focus on internships. any business type internship you can get is ok for freshman and sophomore summer. make sure you get a consulting OR banking internship for junior year and you will be fine.
Hi, hookemhorns --
I graduated from UT and went straight into investment banking from undergrad. Don't worry about UT's (drop the -Austin; everyone knows what you're talking about) reputation on Wall Street or with the major consulting firms. UT is well-represented in every bulge bracket investment bank and consulting firm on the planet.
I won't discuss the potential opportunities you'll be afforded with a degree from UT -- no decision you make now will directly affect the hookemhorns that will be walking across a graduation platform in 4 years. You'll find that the person you become over the course of your college career will be the aggregation of thousands of decisions, each changing the trajectory of your life ever slightly and informing your world view at that moment.
There's no direct path from pre-first-year hookemhorns to recent-graduate-with-a-bulge-bracket-position hookemhorns four years down the road. And even if you could map that out, I doubt the rest of the world would cooperate.
The advice I will give you is this: 1) if you have a genuine interest in economics/finance, double major in finance instead of economics. All of the recruiting for banking and consulting is done through the business school. But keep the CS major if you intend to pursue higher education in econ, as a finance degree won't give you an adequate background in math.
2) Spend your freshman summer doing something fun -- this is the only summer for the rest of your life that you won't be expected to have a job. Try to get a summer internship with a Fortune 500 company your sophomore summer. Spend as much time as you can during this internship meeting people, collecting business cards, and trying to make sense of what you enjoy doing.
3) Don't join any bullshit business clubs like the University Finance Association or the University Investment Club. Recruiters know why people join those organizations. Playing a sport, writing for the school newspaper (UT's is one of the best in the country), or chairing some sort of social club looks far more impressive on a resume than a sycophant-party intended only to impress recruiters.
4) If you want to work internationally, start learning a second language as soon as possible. Your chances of working for a foreign firm abroad are slim-to-none without an immaculate grasp of the local language. Studying abroad is also a good way to make contacts in your region of choice and solidify your knowledge of the language. Just don't study abroad in the UK.
Everyone I know in consulting from UT was in the Business Honors Program. Do whatever you have to do to get in it. UT actually has a strong showing in consulting with M/B/B in Texas but you have to be the best. Most were involved in the Undergraduate Business Council as well. Don't know much about it but must have been a good networking tool.
thanks for the help and support though guys. I really appreciate it.
Look -- if you tailor your curriculum to fit what you THINK recruiters are looking for in hiring for a job that you THINK you're going to want four years down the road, you're going to have a miserable time in college.
well, I'm legitimately interested in all of these fields, but I'm just wondering which would give me the best chance at getting in, especially since I'd be happy studying any of them.
so no advice about whether CS is a good major at all?
"2. I want to know about MMs/boutiques b/c there is a good chance that no matter what I do, I won't get into M/B/B, and am looking at those as fallbacks. That's why I'm wondering if they are comparable in terms of salary, and if they are easier enough to get into that they can be a good alternative for someone who missed the cut for M/B/B."
I think you are way too pessimistic. If you start with this attitude, you will not get in to any of the MBB. You must be the type of person that gets turned on if someone says you "oh, you will never get in to X firm". If you are the type that these words demotivate you, you are not competitive enough. As for MM strategy consulting firms: they are not worth going to, I think. The strat consulting market is a lot smaller than the IB market, and the top strat projects go only to a handful of firms and the type of work will be a lot different at a top shop than at a lesser known, small boutique. I think in IB the difference is less significant. Of course at smaller shops the deals will not be multi billion $ deals, but still...Alternatives to MBB can be Monitor, LEK, Marakon, Booz, AT Kearney...I think these will give you pretty much the same opportunities in learning and exit ops. Alternatives other than consulting include business development jobs at large coporations, and in my personal oppinion a bus dev job can also be very exciting at a start-up, or a small-,medium sized firm, that is just expanding rapidly (e.g. venture backed). Of course there is a risk here, that the "brand" will be not as valuable, however the quality of the work could offset this.
As for the majors: I am not an expert on this, but I would chose the one that gets you into that topnotch program the "easiest", which is a target for the firms you want to work for.
salary-wise though are the MM similar to the big 3? Also, I'm starting to lean towards engineering (either EE or Chem E), because I'm legitimately interested in them, so would that be OK too?
Couple of things I want to clear up: 1. I keep asking about salary, but I'm not really a money-whore. I'm just curious 2. I used to get demotivated when people say I couldn't do it, but I don't take $hit like that anymore. I'm just saying that it's hard to get into these firms, so I want to make sure that even if I don't get into the absolute top, I'll still be fine if I get into the MM. Call me cocky, but I don't think I'm so stupid that I won't even get into the MM banks either, so I just want to explore them since there's a good chance I'll end up at one.
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There is a lot of complete bullshit above. I especially had a good laugh about how apparently "MM consulting firms" (whatever the hell that is) "don't do the multi-billion dollar deals." There are so many things wrong, I don't know where to begin...
Anyway, consulting firms are prestige whores. UT unfortunately is on the fringe. Be a good UT student with a demonstrated interest in consulting and you will be fine.
Dude you need to chill out, you aren't even in college yet, seriously focus on having a good time so you aren't bald by 20.
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