Need Life Advice - Dropping out of college/dropping IB search
Let me just clarify, I am not in IB. However, I have been preparing for the application process for two years. I have completed 3 finance internships, I have studied at least three different ib interview guides, I have done at least 10 mock interviews, I have kept my gpa up high, and I have been networking with bankers extensively. I am sure that if i remain on track, I can land a SA gig. However, I have lost all desire to do IB. Instead I have had this urge to pursue a business idea that i have. I'm really passionate about the idea and I genuinely believe that it will work. Also, I was never really passionate about IB and I only want to do it b/c of the exit opportunities. At this point I am thinking about just dropping the IB SA search, taking a semester off and trying to make my business work. I haven't talked to anyone about this (not even family), and really just looking for some feedback on what you guys think. I keep thinking that i am throwing a great opportunity to get a SA position and potentially a FT offer away, but at the same time I don't really care because I am really confident that I can make my business work.
Really... any feedback will be greatly appreciated
need insight on what this great idea is first
Just my opinion, but if you don't want to do IB that's fine. Whatever your idea is, just realize that it can, and most likely will, fail. Most startups in any field don't make it even if they're the greatest idea on earth. Do the internship, finish college, get the degree, accept the ft role and if you're still dead set on the idea then I suppose go for it but I'd still recommend getting that 2 years of IB experience. Or take a job in the field that your idea is in and get a lay of the land on how the field and business in general operates.
The idea can be great but execution is key and it's very difficult to take a concept and actually make it work without experience and contacts in that field. No idea what your studying but I remember in my college biz courses I thought I could graduate and run GE. There's no freaking way I could have, and probably still cant and I have almost 20 years of pretty decent PE experience.
The benefit of having IB or experience in the field of your idea is that if it fails you have the degree and some experience so you can get another job. Or go back and get an MBA. Of you drop out and your idea doesn't work you're fucked.
And I won't even get into all of the things that you need to start a real business such as capital (maybe your family is wealthy and can stake you) but getting angels and VC's to give you money is very difficult. For every Zuck there are thousands of people who don't make it.
You could also try to get an SA offer, do the internship and spend the last year in college where grades don't matter to try to get your business off the ground. There are a lot of benefits to doing a business in college - network, cheap student labor, early product testers, facilities etc. If you're a business major, school shouldn't take more than 20-30 hours/week if you're slacking. I'm all for trying out your own stuff and not necessarily following the "golden path" of IB -> PE -> HSW MBA -> Greatness, but even more for keeping your options open. If you can see the product gaining some traction and you know this is what you do (or doing your SA stint you realize you hate it), you call up your bank and say you won't be able to join after all.
Your idea will still be around after next summer. If you look at any great business, odds are your original idea isn't what will end up being your final business anyways. Execution is everything and chances are you won't be great at that in your first startup.
If you want some help I'm here for you brah.
But I agree. Try to lands a SA gig. Use the final year to launch or develop yoru business. If you get it to go, great, if not, you have a great back up.
However I would say pursue it if you're passionate. With your "experience" you should be able to have a back up in case it goes to hell. DO NOT DROP OUT -- you'd be better off slacking off 10 hours of work a week + doing business and GET the degree then just drop out completely.
Thanks for all the replies. The reason why I'm considering taking a semester off (I don't like saying dropping out) is because if I decide to pursue my idea then I want to put 100% of my effort into it. Unfortunately, I am not one of the type of students who can maintain a good GPA without working hard - so my grades will suffer (especially since I have a really heavy course load this semester). You guys have a point with working for the SA position and then pursuing my idea next year - but what really bothers me is the thought that someone else might have the same idea as me by then.
If your university will allow a semester off, then do it.
Even if it affects your IBD recruitment it won't affect other jobs recruitment (it may actually be a plus if it works out decently well or could be super plus if it takes off).
Good luck man.
Here's my advice: take Spring 2015 semester off. In doing so you buy yourself an entire year to work on your idea while actually improving your job prospects by graduating late.
Steps:
1 - Fall 2014 - Recruit for Summer 2015 internships, land offer 2 - Spring 2015 - Take Spring 2015 off and work on your idea (6 months) 3 - Summer 2015 - Do internship 4 - Fall 2015 - Recruit for Summer 2016 internships, land offer (you are now graduating December 2016) 5 - Summer 2016 - Do internship, land FT offer (July 2017 start date) 6 - Fall 2016 - Graduate 7 - Spring 2017 - Work on your idea until you start FT in July 2017 (6 months)
Now you've done two internships, received a FT offer, and still had 12 months to work on your start-up. Also, if your idea starts to gain traction during any of the above steps you always have the option of dropping out / re-negging to pursue it full time.
You think banks will let me complete a summer internship knowing that I will be graduating a semester late?
Yes. Plenty of people intern before their junior summer
didn't read anyone else's responses, but here are my thoughts on startups, and this will be harsh, fair warning. 99% fail, 99% of the ones that succeed don't knock it out of the park such that you become independently wealthy like a Brin, Jobs, Bezos, Musk, Zuck, etc. otherwise the world would have more billionaires. if you're not doing it for the money (be honest), that's fine, but you better have a backup plan if it goes south. a college degree is a great way to hedge that risk. unless you're a welder or plumber, you can't make 6 figures without a college degree if your business fails. absent skills and certifications in one of those trades, I suggest developing your idea throughout college, graduating, and then pursuing it perhaps for a couple of years if you have the capital. worst case scenario, you can go to b-school and become a IB associate if the stars align.
here's some tough love. everyone thinks their business can work. everyone thinks that their idea is the best idea. this is a prerequisite for being an entrepreneur. but the deal is most ideas, no matter how great in theory, don't work. they suck. they drain your capital before they're profitable or it was such a dumb idea in the first place that it would've never been profitable even if you got $100mm from Silver Lake. I'm glad you're enthusiastic about your idea, that's good, passion is important. but passion alone won't make a net income number positive enough to pay the bills. regardless of your personal financial circumstances, I'd get the degree to hedge that risk out. best case scenario, you become the next Zuck who has a harvard degree and is a billionaire. worst case scenario you've got a cool resume but 45 credit hours to go before your college is worth anything. in my mind, the suckiness of finishing college is nowhere near the suckiness of falling flat on your face without any options.
I'm all about entrepreneurialism but I think it's important for you to know what's against you going into it so you can make an informed decision going forward.
I don't think this is true. No offense.
99% of attempts to become millionaire entrepreneurs fail. They overreach, they underprepare, market crashes at the exact wrong time, etc. I agree with that, but I would say that a business minded and prepared individual has a much better chance than that for succeeding in entrepreneurship.
Not everyone is aiming that high. He could easily pull out an idea/business which profits him 50k-100k every year. EASILY. IB numbers, not even close, but possible. It's just scaling it upwards which is so hard for entrepreneurs and it normally crumbles them.
Most entrepreneurs are unprepared and ill-equipped to start businesses. Not enough capital investment/support or too crazy ideas. This guys seems to have his head on straight, is a finance or econ literate individual and has his share of experience.
I'd say his chances of pretty strong to be a successful entrepreneur.
Ha, great advice bro.
Now back to reality:
" About three-quarters of venture-backed firms in the U.S. don't return investors' capital, according to recent research by Shikhar Ghosh, a senior lecturer at Harvard Business School." WSJ 2012
That is VC backed companies mind you. VCs probably don't even fund 90% of the companies they get pitched.
So now you don't even read other people's posts? Wtf bro? Too good for us?
I should throw out a caveat that I am completely for entrepreneuralism and think it's the lifeblood of the US economy so I hate to deter it. I've also professionally lived through a few market cycles now and have seen 20 year old's become paper millionaires with bullshit tech ideas and business plans in the dotcom boom (and subsequently left with nothing), and I've recently seen tech guys in startups who are newer grads and guys/teams with tech and/or finance backgrounds (think 3-5+ years post undergrad or even top MBA types) who have great ideas and have both made it and failed. I've also known more than a few people who started businesses that were in less than tech-sexy industries and had much more experience, think 15+ years. Take this all with a grain of salt though.
Starting anything up in general is very difficult. Making it work and running it is even more difficult. Personally I feel that one should get a few years of general business experience, be it IB, working at a tech co, working at a plumbing contractor, whatever, just to know how businesses operates. Undergrad and some summer internships simply do not cut it. A plumbing or welding apprenticeship doesn't cut it either. They give you a glimpse into how a business operates but you don't really figure out how to do it better. Running a business is tough. It's best to spend some time in the trenches even if it's being a lower level person because you'll see how things truly operate and you can glean knowledge into how they should operate. The entrepreneurs that I see make it more often than not are the guys who start or buy unsexy businesses with 15+ years of experience because they not only know how the business operates but they have the connections (network) to make it work. And that is the same in the high tech world because instead of simply being the guy who somehow raises the initial capital to get the company off the ground, they are able to know the operational and financial people to make it work.
That's not to say that you shouldn't start something earlier however. You just really need to know the risks.
Having an idea, no matter how awesome, isn't good enough. You need to know how to take a product to market, you need to know how to finance it, how to manage people, different advertising/marketing avenues, how to manage your accountants and cash flow, customers and vendors, and so many other things that it will blow your mind. Do you know how difficult both financially and operationally it is simply to get office space? I've done it 4 or 5 times and it sucks. You spend months looking at spaces, another couple of months negotiating, then you need to promise your first born as a security deposit if you're not a credit tenant (and just because I've been with successful PE firms doesn't mean we're credit), then you need to spend 5-10x what you think you would to build the space out and fit it with furniture, then some dbag tells you it's going to cost $15/sf to wire it, even though you'd much rather be entirely wireless. Stupid shit like that takes a ton of time, effort and money. And that's a stupid administrative function that's a fraction of what it takes to bring something new to market.
Tech startups are very difficult in today's world without a decent pedigree because, unlike in 1999, VC's aren't willing to invest a decent amount of money with a team that doesn't have both a good idea and a team with a background. You may be able to get past the angel and seed round but once you hit the real VC round it gets very difficult. I found this article interesting: http://www.wired.com/2014/04/no-exit/ I've known Paul from Bullpen since we were geeky kids in 1983 trying to code TI's and Commodore's turn a screen color blue with 10 lines, and he's been through the trenches a few times as an entrepreneur and now a VC. He's a no-BS guy and his lines in their are completely true. For the OP, it would be highly beneficial to finish your degree because no matter how good of an idea you think you have, you need to have something to fall back on. The world will be brutal to you. And at the very least you want a college degree to fall back on. Even better would be IB or tech experience.
It's also very lonely being the boss. I've now been the boss with partners at 2 PE firms and a couple of smaller things. You don't get to be friends with the people who work for you. You're their boss. That may seem inconsequential from afar but if you happen to get a startup financed and off the ground level and you're 21, it's truly a lonely place to be. When you're an IB analyst at 22-25 your life sucks but at least you're sharing it with other people your age and they're your only friends because you work ungodly hours (I went straight into REPE after college but I had a group of similar aged guys I worked with). When it's just you and a partner or two, you can't be friends with anyone except those one or two people. I wouldn't discount that as much as you would when it's theory rather than reality.
As I've said, I in no way want to dissuade entrepreneurialism but you need to dig deep, talk live to others who have done it and make an informed decision. You also need to realize, as @"thebrofessor" and others have stated, that there's a very good chance that your idea won't work, even if it's a great idea.
I wish you the best of luck. No one can tell you what to do but don't rush into a new venture too quickly and give up something as beneficial in the long term as a highly valued college degree, and a two year analyst stint or getting into an established tech company, because you're anxious to do something when you're 21 years old. I'm in the 40 year old range and waiting 6 months, 12 months, or two years when you're younger is worth it when you look back over a career.
Go for the SA and FT offer, a few thoughts come to mind. 1. How are you gonna fund this start up of yours? A FT offer can definitely fund it, sure you will place your business on the back burner, but you have to think long term. 2. What if it fails? Do you have a back up plan? Will dropping IB right now burn any bridges or make it harder to get into after a decision like this backfires on you? 3. Are you being influenced by this whole start up race? Lets be honest starting a business and becoming filthy rich is enticing, but how plausible is it? In all honesty, have you weighed out the pros and cons of each path? IB is a great option to fund your business, but at the same time you do not sound like you would enjoy the work. Simply having the confidence that your business will work is not enough. I have seen so many people with confidence in starting a business and then they realized it was easier to quit due to many factors they never considered, like money and resources. The successful business owners that I met had both making it a bit easier than most to succeed.
Just my two cents.
It looks like @"Dingdong08" and @"thebrofessor" have covered all the bases. You've got to be a rainmaker to go out on your own and once you start seeing those bonus checks, going out on your own loses its appeal. All I'll add is that any idea you could actually pull off as a college drop-out with no funding or work experience, isn't going to be worth your time. Start-ups get a lot of hype in the tech industry but the guys wearing those hoodies are adept at what they do, are surrounded by a team of experts that can bring the product to market and are backed by deep pockets.
Get your degree, and take the job. Taking a business from lvl 0 to lvl 1 is a lot harder than taking a business from lvl 4 to lvl 5. I would channel that entrepreneurial spirit into an industry you wanted to be in after getting the pedigree to get there... college education, IB stint.
Thanks for the replies. I am currently in the process of speaking to my family, professors, and friends in IB about their opinion. Most of them seem to be pretty convinced that IB is the way to go, but I am really not sure
IB is a safe but shitty way (due to the fact that you'll hate your job at least half the time) to get rich, the entrepreneurial way is the risky but exciting way to get possibly super rich, or become completely broke.
I'd say finish uni for sure, that should be a no brainer. It's a hedge in case your business fails. Don't do IB over your 'idea' if you are really passionate about your idea. In the end you'll always blame yourself for not having tried, especially during an all-nighter working on some useless pitchbook that nobody's going to read anyway.
If you were truly confident that your business would work then you wouldn't be asking this question. The underlying question is, "Should I take a risk or play it safe and take a salary working for someone else like most of the population." Most business ideas fail initially, you need to develop the mindset that you are going to make it/an idea work regardless of how many times you fail at it. Once you have this mindset, you will be ready to become an entrepreneur.
Didn't read the replies just read the story.
If you think you can get it off the ground right now in a summer, you should be able to do real damage over the course of 9 MONTHS of hard work. No one cares about your GPA once you get the job offer.
If you have a 3.75 now and drop to a 3.5 before you start the IB job, it won't matter. Not one bit.
Therefore, get the job, then you bought yourself a year to work on your business.
Seems like a bad risk adjusted decision to go all in on 3 months when you can simply buy 9 months of time with minimal effort.
Besides. That $15K signing bonus can be invested in your business as well.
Like many have said already... Do not drop out --> get internship --> land job offer. Meanwhile, continue working on your idea and upon graduation decide what you want to do.
Think about it this way... without a college degree you will have less credibility, the IB (intern) experience would be good for your idea and is a great safety net.
Best of luck!
Skimmed the responses, this'll go in line with most, but good to add depth to the majority:
Don't drop out. Get your internship, sounds like you will lock something up, and give it your SA time to see if it truly isn't your things. This should go with any internship, but the right networking once in the office will get you a pretty good feel for how the FT would look. Who knows you may have your mind changed.
Your dream will be there. Chances are, no one will take your idea and turn it into Uber in 1,2,etc. years. It's impossible to imagine how slim the general odds are at landing a startup that works. Not only does the business model need to be made of 3-inch think steel walls, but you need a crack squad team of people (didn't say brilliant...), and whole lot of luck. VC firms will have 10 investments in their current fund, 7 they lose all their capital, 2 will break even, 1 will return their needed 3x of the fund. so if even 10% of a VC backed fund makes it, think of the larger pool (this has been reiterated here).
Also, if the sacrifices of IB are getting to you, the sacrifices of startups are even greater.
My $.02 - stay in school, do the SA, build some savings, then mortgage your life for the dream. I won't dispute that, if the dream is real and it fires you up, then it's worth it at some point.
cheers/
Your main concern seems to be that if you do not get on this idea fast enough, someone else will.
That is probably true, but you have to remember that ideas alone are overrated. Shitty ideas can be made great with excellent execution, whereas great ideas can be total flops if mismanaged. If you truly are the one who is going to make this idea big and sell your startup for millions, it probably won't matter when you start it.
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=tony+robbins+2+inches+away&sourc…
Watch that video and know that whatever competition you have will likely be close to success but never reach it.
Unless your family's rich how do you plan on funding your business idea? I'd like to start my own business too but I still got an analyst gig after college to save up for a business in the future.
I've also met some really great people through having a full time job, I think building up a network really helps.
There's other good jobs out there besides in banking... Why don't you at least get an entry level position in the industry that you're trying to start a business in?
I think the big question is what career do you want? Sounds like it's not IB (FYI most people do the IB analyst stint for the exit opps) but I can't tell if you are looking to go tech, with this startup idea, or if it's something completely different. If you do really want to go for this startup and you think you have the full business plan worked out and can really try to execute on it by taking a semester off, go for it. If shit doesn't pan out during that semester, graduate and get on the track you do want. Are you interested in PE/VC/Asset Management or some sort of financial path? If so then IB may be a good starting place even if it's not your end goal.
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