How to Network and Tips on Networking

So I hear a lot about networking on this site and how it is important, especially if you go to a non-target or a semi-target. How hard is networking and how should one go about networking? In an ideal world, I would want to work for a BB investment bank or at least an EB investment bank, however I fear that this may not be possible if I go to what is considered a non-target. Any helpful tips on how to network properly and your own experiences with networking would be greatly appreciated.

 

"at least an EB" ... ok bro. 1, you should learn a bit more about the landscape so you don't say something with that level of naivete to a banker.

2, this "networking" you speak of is not "hard" unless you find social interactions difficult. Learn to write a nice, concise introductory email and send it to some analysts at banks you're interested in; try to get on the phone and ask them some genuine questions.

 

No problem. Following up on my previous comment, a non-target recruiting experience isn't optimal. To put things in perspective, I networked almost exclusively with alums from my school and found that they were the most helpful. Coming from a non-target, this may be a more limited option, so I would start making a spreadsheet of people you can cold-email and update it as they get back to you. Make sure to join clubs with current seniors who were successful in the process - you can leverage them, too.

 

Are you a college student? Networking for them basically means talking to the right people at info sessions/on-campus events, alumni, professional events, social clubs, etc.

Banking > VC > Tech PE; PM me if you would like any advice I'm happy to help
 

Make sure you stay away from emails unless you've met the person. Either that or make sure that you have someone in contact with them (colleague etc.)ask if it is alright that you're given their contact information etc. And more importantly, continue to follow-up/check-in if that person seems receptive to it.

I am going into an analyst program right now with a MM bank, but I am still in contact with people at 3 other banks I interned and/or interviewed with. That's sort of the essence of networking. I keep them up to date on what I am doing, ask for advice etc.

If you do that, your personal network just keeps growing.

 
probinganalyst:
cool story bro
BURRNNNN!
[quote=Dirk Dirkenson]Shut up already. Your mindless, reflexive responses to any critical thought on this are tedious. You're also probably a woman, given the name and "xoxo" signoff, so maybe the lack of judgment is to be expected.[/quote]
 

OP - I agree with you entirely.

However, please allow me to introduce the caveat that it may be better to not refer to it as "networking." I believe that such a term sanitizes and discursively mutes the essential genuine interaction -- interpersonal connection -- which characterizes the most effective instances of "networking." Rather, call it "meeting people," or "making friends," or even nothing at all. I believe that such an approach is key to one's "networking" efforts coming off as agreeable and genuine. Indeed, be genuine. Fixate not on what a "contact" can get you, so much as the holistic value of a new relationship.

"There are three ways to make a living in this business: be first, be smarter, or cheat."
 
Sandhurst:
Fixate not on what a "contact" can get you, so much as the holistic value of a new relationship.

Build holistic relationships to learn about and enter the industry (not networking and cold emailing to break into banking). Once in the industry, provide businesses with holistic solutions to create long-term value (not figuring out ways to maximize fees) ... love me some buzz words.

 

this is so key...networking pays off, literally.

heres the proof for me at least:

SA recruitment (without really networking 'properly')= 0 ocr interviews...had to cold call and work unpaid over summer to get a boutique internship

FT recruitment (w/extensive networking march-august)= 16 IB interviews lined up (across LA, SF and NY- ALL IB) some BBs (BAML, Citi, Wells Fargo), few elite boutiques (lazard, guggenheim) and many solid MMs (Houlihan, Jefferies, Oppenheimer, Harris Williams, Stifel, Piper Jaffray, Imperial Capital, Sagent, Duff & Phelps, Montgomery & Co, Raymond James etc.). i ended up taking the offer i wanted and cancelling on the remaining like 13 interviews/superdays i had left because it was my top choice. it feels good to say no to a bank after getting rejected to many goddamn times. lol.

literally the only difference (keep in min my GPA was lower for FT recruitment than it was for SA recruitment even HAHA) between the 2 interview cycles was my networking.

i eventually got the offer i ended up taking because so many damn people at the office i had the superday already knew me, i was favored.

I don't throw darts at a board. I bet on sure things. Read Sun-tzu, The Art of War. Every battle is won before it is ever fought- GG
 
Best Response
anacott steal:
analystmonkey, congrats on your success, can you explain how you went about networking and meeting these people?

sure. use linkedin like its facebook. use that as a portal to find alumni, people that went to your high school, speak another similar language as you, like a sport/interest as you do, live in your city, live in your home city, come from a similar country if you are a 1st born generation here in the US...etc. the list goes on. i basically would do many different type of linkedin searches with odd key words until i found people that worked at a good IB that i would want to work at and have a similar commanility with me

from there, you just got to cold email/cold connect with them and try to get them on the phone. always keep track of who you spoke to in excel, the last time you spoke, what you spoke about etc etc.

then see if they can introduce you to anyone else in their group/office that would be in charge of recruitment and/or ask the original person out to coffee or lunch (your treat of course)

repeat this process x 300 and even at a 20% success rate, thats 60 people taht can push your resume if you make a good connection/conversation/lunch with that person come recruitment.

i think i must have tried to cold connect with nearly 600 people and like 200 of them said yes and of those 200 like 100 i ended up getting to speak to via email or phone and maybe like 20 in person

hope this helps. dont be lazy, get the ball rolling especially if you or other juniors dont have a SA position lined up yet, get something (even unpaid) at a no name local boutique and start grinding. dsnt matter where you start, matters where you'll end up.

I don't throw darts at a board. I bet on sure things. Read Sun-tzu, The Art of War. Every battle is won before it is ever fought- GG
 

I LOVE networking. More so than the prospects of a SA offer, but I really enjoy talking to new people and hearing about why they work in finance, and if they like it. The relationships are pretty great too - I was speaking with an alumni last week who has a son in high school who is considering studying at my UG, and in 2 weeks I'm giving him a 1-1 campus tour instead of them having to go through the Universities paid program. If an offer happens to come out of that then great, but I don't expect one to.

I've actually started to catch some flak for how much time I spend researching alumni, reading company websites and sending emails from other guys who live in my fraternity house - even other finance brahs. I guess networking is a hard concept to wrap your head around if you're not actively doing it?

 

Don't worry; those of us who've been through this know exactly how it feels.

Keep pushing and try focusing on more specific connections (e.g. alumni, etc.). I've read that quite a few members here have sent over 1,000+ emails/calls.

 

I didn't expect too much from cold emails/calls. In my opinion, a better strategy is to do your best to utilize alumni connections and family and friend connections. A random banker is more likely to blow you off then a friend of the family.

 

"I do not think I am being too aggressive with my emails. " ABC = always be closing, that means get aggressive. End of.

If they finally crack down, don't be too pushy during the interview, that's a no. But with emails - most definitely, and call as well. Especially if it's via an introduction or a friend, I would be more reserved about harassing complete strangers...

 
Disjoint:
ABC = always be closing, that means get aggressive.

Straight dope. Echoing Disjoint, "getting aggressive" doesn't mean being pushy per-se. It means pounding pavement, following up, and generally having your shit together (and coming across as such). Be as genuine as possible, certainly stay polite, and Always Be Closing.

Motivation:

http://www.youtube.com/embed/8kZg_ALxEz0?rel=0

(

)

"There are three ways to make a living in this business: be first, be smarter, or cheat."
 

Don't give up... It doesn't have to be warm emails... Try to connect through LinkedIn (don't send a generic message, say what you need)

I recently applied for a job at a big investment management company (5000+ employees), I found the name of the head of the group on LinkedIn. I sent him a short email saying that I applied and I want an interview (in a nice and not too aggressive way)... I have an interview next week...

Keep your messages short... if you see coffee/meeting as the first contact doesn't work, try to set up a phone call...

And I think being honest is the most important thing...

Also, if this guy is a trader or something, don't email him during market hours... I think best times to email are Tuesday/Wednesday/Thursday around 430pm... Fridays is also okay because it's a slow day...

 
WallStreetStandard:

Don't give up...
It doesn't have to be warm emails...
Try to connect through LinkedIn (don't send a generic message, say what you need)

I recently applied for a job at a big investment management company (5000+ employees), I found the name of the head of the group on LinkedIn. I sent him a short email saying that I applied and I want an interview (in a nice and not too aggressive way)... I have an interview next week...

Can you pm me how you worded this? It seems rude, but idk how to word it nicely

 

When you approach alumni, you have to be direct and indirect at the same time. As in most situations, the alum will know what you want (to get a job) but will expect to hear an indirect request (ask to speak to them on phone, via email, etc.) rather than a direct "can you please help me by x, y, z".

During the email communication, test your ability to sell yourself, ask semi-direct questions, and HOPE for a response. Once you establish the relationship (by him acknowledging your email and bothering to respond), you can can build a foundation which will ultimately result in him agreeing to pass your resume along.

Don't think alumni are like the hoes in amsterdam, where you just go up to the window, negotiate a price and go in. Things work a little bit different in the corporate world.

Good luck.

 

(1) I almost always use first name in emails, especially if you have struck up a conversation with them during the recruiting receptions.

(2) Try to get informationals (face to face or phone) with alums. It's one way to stand out if you are from a semi or non target.

(3) Google informational interviews and you will find a list of sample questions. Don't ask questions in rapdi fire mode, but engage in conversation.

(4) You can email multiple alums (4 or 5) but not 50. The key to networking, I think is, if you have 2-3 people in the firm who will speak up for you, it's good enough. Once you achieve that, stop - because you may end up meeting one or two jerks after that whom you can't connect with, and if he say bad things about you, it'll hurt you.

 

You don't also have to ask dumb, pointless questions like "why banking?" or "why company XYZ?" Take some time to write out some thoughtful questions. If you met and talked with a guy at the presentations then bring something up that you talked about. Ask about challenges they face, suggestions they have for doing the best in interviews you can, etc. And if they went to your school, ask specific questions that relate your similar college experiences to their career. Ask questions, just don't ask the Vault Guide canned ones.

 

Oh, and CS and UBS aren't "lower end BB." I'd say you have GS, then MS, then Lehman & Merrill, then Citi/JP/CS/UBS (in some order) are right there. Well within the top 10 in US and Europe. I'd say the "lower end BB" is more like Bear, DB, BoA.

 

Ask if he knows of any positions through his network. And if he does, could he introduce you to the person he knows. if he says he doesn't, you say okay well I am interested in blah blah, please keep me in the loop and I will keep you updated on my progress.

And then keep them updated! Tell them when you have an interview and with who, tell them if you apply to something at a firm. Maybe they might know someone they forgot about and can send a note on your behalf. Create a relationship with them, don't try to bullshit them asking for advice when in reality you want them to hand you a job. Be upfront and explain you are looking for positions in so and so and have so and so experience and would like to discuss possible opportunities with them and how to best position yourself.

Frank Sinatra - "Alcohol may be man's worst enemy, but the bible says love your enemy."
 
yeahright:
Ask if he knows of any positions through his network. And if he does, could he introduce you to the person he knows. if he says he doesn't, you say okay well I am interested in blah blah, please keep me in the loop and I will keep you updated on my progress.

And then keep them updated! Tell them when you have an interview and with who, tell them if you apply to something at a firm. Maybe they might know someone they forgot about and can send a note on your behalf. Create a relationship with them, don't try to bullshit them asking for advice when in reality you want them to hand you a job. Be upfront and explain you are looking for positions in so and so and have so and so experience and would like to discuss possible opportunities with them and how to best position yourself.

Thanks for the comment! When do I ask for the position? Do i do all you told me via email? Or do i ask to meet for advice and then ask for position during coffee?

Thank you !

 

Advice is good, but the main reason you meet with them to try and get them to ask you for your resume. Sell yourself well (by showing you are genuinely interested in their industry) and after they see that, most of the time they will ask. If not, depending on how well the conversation went, ask in your thank you email if they could critique your resume so that they actually read through it in detail and get a better understanding of who you are/where you stand. Also, ask them if they know anyone else you can speak to in order to get their advice and input as well.

 
rufiolove:
Get them to invest in your outcome emotionally... People are more willing to help if they are invested. They have already invested time by agreeing to meet with you, so just build off of that base.
This.
 

Here is my two cents on networking, some may agree- some may disagree. "Networking" means knowing people. Now, somewhere along the line people started construing networking as = calling someone for a phone call and then checking in on them every month. Think about your friends, how many of them do you call for an informational interview and only contact monthly with some bullshit career/ market updates? I'd imagine not many unless you have some very bizzare friendships.

The reason I came to this conclusion, is because all the kids I partied with and had a great time with in UG would be AMAZING resources for me getting a job. Only problem is, having went to a non-target, they all pretty much reside in either Big 4 or BB support roles. But my point is- THAT'S a network. Not 100 people you maintain in some fucking spreadsheet who you've done nothing but had "informational interviews" with. That's literally the ONLY reason I'd consider an MBA (and only a top one at that). Because developing TRUE friendships with people who go on to do big things/ hold good positions, that's a network imo.

I learned this after every "networking" effort I put out there went EXACTLY the same way you described in the 4 steps in the OP. "Well, send me your resume and I'll let you know if anything comes up". Like don't bullshit me bro, I'm never going to hear back from you- let's be real. Networking is TRULY knowing people in positions you'd want, not a 30 min phone call and a resume sent in an e-mail. They have about as much of a vested interest in you as the other 30 lemmings they took phone calls from that month.

 
FrankD'anconia:
Here is my two cents on networking, some may agree- some may disagree. "Networking" means knowing people. Now, somewhere along the line people started construing networking as = calling someone for a phone call and then checking in on them every month. Think about your friends, how many of them do you call for an informational interview and only contact monthly with some bullshit career/ market updates? I'd imagine not many unless you have some very bizzare friendships.

The reason I came to this conclusion, is because all the kids I partied with and had a great time with in UG would be AMAZING resources for me getting a job. Only problem is, having went to a non-target, they all pretty much reside in either Big 4 or BB support roles. But my point is- THAT'S a network. Not 100 people you maintain in some fucking spreadsheet who you've done nothing but had "informational interviews" with. That's literally the ONLY reason I'd consider an MBA (and only a top one at that). Because developing TRUE friendships with people who go on to do big things/ hold good positions, that's a network imo.

I learned this after every "networking" effort I put out there went EXACTLY the same way you described in the 4 steps in the OP. "Well, send me your resume and I'll let you know if anything comes up". Like don't bullshit me bro, I'm never going to hear back from you- let's be real. Networking is TRULY knowing people in positions you'd want, not a 30 min phone call and a resume sent in an e-mail. They have about as much of a vested interest in you as the other 30 lemmings they took phone calls from that month.

I agree with you 100%. The problem is that who has a network of people they are friends with who are in a position to hire when they are under 25? Not many.

B-school networks aren't very helpful in this regard because all of the people you are friends with are your peers...they're your competition, not someone who can hire you. Maybe they can put in a good word for you for an opening at your firm, but usually they aren't hiring you unless you have fallen way behind your peers in your career progression (which would invite new issues).

So, where does that leave college students looking for a job? They need to make connections and ask people for a job. We can call it networking or cold calling, but either way, it has to be done. I agree that it's not really networking though.

 
Quaneaser:

Couple questions for you:

I assume this is for FT positions? What do you do now? Do you have any IB experience at all? Are there any glaring weaknesses on your resume (low GPA, very non-target, etc?)

FT for some but mostly off-cycle internships (or summer if they allow it). Or anything on offer e.g. work experience. Currently unemployed. Yes - an IBD/M&A no-name internship but its a bit old. Went to a target, 2:1 degree obtained in a quantitative discipline. Main weakness is a lack of any work experience since Summer 2013 which is what I am trying to overcome.

 

My advice to you would be to get any finance related job right now. With a target degree and at least some finance experience you should be fairly attractive corporate finance jobs, wealth management, etc. When looking for FT opportunities it is infinitely times easier to get a job when you have a job.

I think that accounts for a lot of your struggles. People without jobs/without return offers will have a very tough time networking because fair or not those are large red flags. If you contact people while having a job then people will likely be much more responsive and willing to listen since it's easier to refer a guy who is employed (read: employable) then one who isn't.

I realize it is not easy at all to even find the corp fin/PWM jobs, but if you want an honest answer to why your networking efforts aren't currently working, I believe it is what I stated in paragraph two. Feel free to message me your resume if you want also.

 
Quaneaser:

My advice to you would be to get any finance related job right now. With a target degree and at least some finance experience you should be fairly attractive corporate finance jobs, wealth management, etc. When looking for FT opportunities it is infinitely times easier to get a job when you have a job.

I think that accounts for a lot of your struggles. People without jobs/without return offers will have a very tough time networking because fair or not those are large red flags. If you contact people while having a job then people will likely be much more responsive and willing to listen since it's easier to refer a guy who is employed (read: employable) then one who isn't.

I realize it is not easy at all to even find the corp fin/PWM jobs, but if you want an honest answer to why your networking efforts aren't currently working, I believe it is what I stated in paragraph two. Feel free to message me your resume if you want also.

Sent you a message with my CV link. Appreciate it.

 

I tried most of the above, got better response rate though. Have you ever thought about utilizing Linkedin specifically the Inmail tool. it's one way to reach MDs worked for me. Also try cold calling check out M&A website for cold calling strategies. my advice to you is to ask first for an informational interview get to know some people and learn about their background, DON'T ask for a job. Best luck !!!

 

Agreed with other users to get any finance related job as soon as possible. This will help to boost your confidence when reaching out to someone because in the back of your mind you already have a fall back plan. Secondly, it helps with "your story" part while networking with others, since you can clearly state why you want to transition to banking.

In terns of the networking strategy I always try to find the common ground. The best way is to approach alumni who did similar things in university (part of the same student organization, sports team, case competition, etc). "Hey I am an alum from XYZ. I was wondering if you have just a couple minutes over the next two weeks for a phone call to discuss your transition from non-target to BB in NYC/London/HK"

 

I tried asking for informational interviews (see strategy 1). The problem is (at least in the UK) they jump directly to 'send me your CV and we go from there' (even if I specifically keep it to learning more about their background and nothing job related). Most never reply even to Inmails (infact I've never got a response from an Inmail) or vanish after seeing my CV (but I sent it to many people to check and everyone says its ok). They sometimes reply months later asking if they can still help, I reply requesting the call, and then they vanish again.

The few who reply/I catch on a call ask for my progress with the banking apps in general (this was even when I was studying) or ask how they can help. If I ask about their background at this point they know I'm just BSing and calling about my career (tried this many times). If I go straight to the point several say they do not refer/will not refer anyone they spoke to for 30 mins over the phone etc as its a fair playing field online and its just luck keep trying. If I BS first and then slowly tread into what I'm doing now they say they will check for me if any team is interested and then vanish (no follow up calls either).

The contacts I seem to have the most luck with are people who I am completely unrelated too for some reason (perhaps they find me interesting?) eg I didn't go to Oxbridge but Oxbridge people help me the most.

Alumni are honestly the worst and really demotivating/negative/degrade you over the phone (with a few exceptions of course). Offering a coffee meeting is also a nightmare - they are always busy so there barely is anytime to meet. A few have offered - when I try to organise a time - they vanish again.

The same thing happened to when studying so I'm not sure it's the lack of a job. I am really trying to get any job at the moment but am struggling - hence the extensive efforts to network.

 

Try to find what has been working so far. You seems to have too many things on your mind at the same time (easily indicated by long thread posts). If meeting Oxbridge alum in person works best focus on that.

Don't focus your networking efforts on going straight for the kill "I want a job". Try to find out the steps they took to break into the industry, you need to have the convo going with them on regular basis/try to become friends with them. Most people think of networking as a one time thing, while it is actually a long process. Some people have been networking for years in order to get to where they wanted to end up at.

If you are really struggling buy WSO and BIWS networking guides, read up on success stories, try something called rejection therapy (like this guy http://www.fearbuster.com/100-days-of-rejection-therapy/)

 

I have the WSO networking guide and started my networking only after reading that.

My point was overtime I've tried the above strategies but none 'work' as such. I'm hitting dead ends with each one (some more than others) and therefore wanted help on how to improve it (and which one to continue with if any).

The only comments I have received (from the people who I do call/meet up with) say they applied online and got the offer. No special advice other the keep applying (and then 10-15 mins on how the industry has changed, its tough, you have to be lucky and more generic unhelpful advice).

I'm unsure how to change this/what I am doing wrong for the networking to not really go anywhere.

By the way - I know some people for years (prior to them even going into banking). I've been unable to break in so far they either ignore me completely (they feel they are above me - esp alumni) or type sympathy emails (with the same generic advice) but don't actually 'do' anything unless I specifically request it. Even then I'm not interviewed.

Getting quite confused as at least one of the methods above seems to have worked for everyone else on the forum. Not sure what's different for me.

 

Out of curiosity, has anyone in the UK/Europe actually tried networking and landed something through that? I feel that networking may be more applicable to the USA given the feedback I'm getting from the people I am speaking to in the UK/Europe. I hope I'm wrong though.

 

People I contact seem to jump straight to let me see your CV/you have to apply online, are unwilling to refer (unless you know them personally and even then its rare) and don't like to talk about their job much as coming from a target you 'should know' what they do/about the industry. I'm also constantly told if I'm not getting through via online apps there's nothing anyone can do unless your Rothschilds son or something. Any ideas on how to get around this?

 

1) they are your friends. If you need something you call. If you are in town grab a beer, real simple. If they are your friends they will gladly pass your resume.

2) Networking is about making contacts or friends. Find people who went to the same school as you and try and get a hold of them. Try and network with people in the areas you are interested in.

Networking is about increasing your circle.

 

Are you kidding man? If they really are your friends, call them and at least ask for advice on how they would recommend getting into their firm. I cant really see this as being a serious question. Banking and finance in general are relationship driven businesses, if you cannot call your friends up to inquire about a simple job, how do you expect to succeed?

 

At the very least, they will pass your resume. Call them - so many different options. Beer, lunch, meeting - just be yourself and be on-point and concise with what you want to talk about.

Don't waste their time, and they won't waste yours.

 

That probably means he's a college sophomore and an avid user of WSO

I do agree that airport lounges are money places to network though

If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses - Henry Ford
 
CompBanker:
Now I'm at Continental's lounge and the guy sitting next to me is dropping the words "Carlyle" and "M&A" like they're going out of style.
happypantsmcgee:
That probably means he's a college sophomore and an avid user of WSO

LOL! Classic! That deserves a silver banana.

Nouveau Richie:
I agree, major shit goes down in first class.

One time, my friend flew first class from Paris to Los Angeles and the flight was filled with famous/important people: Leonardo Dicaprio, the chick from "Juno," the girly-man from "(500) Days of Summer," some heir to a family fortune, the owner of the airlines, and a couple other really well-dressed people. Anyway, my friend said they mindfucked the rich heir guy a bit and somehow convinced him to divest the divisions of his dad's company.

Crazy, I know. Anyway, there's way more to the story, it's a bit confusing, it would probably take me like... exactly 148 minutes to tell you what really happened.

As does this!

 

Nah, the guy was legit. He gave me a business card, a book to read (that he happened to be carrying around), and told me to mail it back to him when I was done.

CompBanker’s Career Guidance Services: https://www.rossettiadvisors.com/
 

I agree, major shit goes down in first class.

One time, my friend flew first class from Paris to Los Angeles and the flight was filled with famous/important people: Leonardo Dicaprio, the chick from "Juno," the girly-man from "(500) Days of Summer," some heir to a family fortune, the owner of the airline, and a couple other really well-dressed people. Anyway, my friend said they mindfucked the rich heir guy a bit and somehow convinced him to divest the divisions of his dad's company.

Crazy, I know. Anyway, there's way more to the story, it's a bit confusing, it would probably take me like... exactly 148 minutes to tell you what really happened.

“Millionaires don't use astrology, billionaires do”
 

I made a post about this a while back. If you hang around enough you will find tons of PE guys in airports all over the place...as far as celebrities...listen to this shit show:

I flew from Sao Paulo to Miami about a year ago in an empty Boeing 767 with Macy Gray and her girlfriend.

They were fighting, chasing each other up and down the isles, making up, kissing, screaming, going to the bathroom every 15 minutes coming back hyperactive and smiling like clowns. Good times.

 

lmfao happy, awesome.

Generally speaking a lot of older guys (from what I've seen) enjoy the upscale places where it's not super loud and they can talk and have a good time. Bars and clubs are great to go out and get sloshed at, but going to a nice Jazz bar, the opera (the Met, specifically, in NYC), Broadway shows, etc, you'll probably have a decent opportunity to meet people. Bars/Lounges are generally the best places because they might only be out by themselves or having a drink with a couple friends. The others are kind of harder just to walk up to somebody and be like, "hey, blah blah blah".

"You stop being an asshole when it sucks to be you." -IlliniProgrammer "Your grammar made me wish I'd been aborted." -happypantsmcgee
 

I agree, airports and planes are rife with networking opportunities. My whackjob to legit ratio has been a bit skewed to the former though.

People like Coldplay and voted for the Nazis, you can't trust people Jeremy
 

if your username is any indication of the fact that you attend Duke, I think you'll be set provided you do have a decent GPA and experience. But networking can never hurt only help your chances.

its one way or the other: hate me or admire.
 

Do a forum search for networking and check out the FAQ section. There's a lot about how to network, you just have to sift through some of the stuff. Good practice for when you get into IB haha

"You stop being an asshole when it sucks to be you." -IlliniProgrammer "Your grammar made me wish I'd been aborted." -happypantsmcgee
 

I've tried linkedin, but I don't want to pay for an account upgrade to be able to send messages to people. Is there a guide anywhere for S&T networking? Something similar to the mergers and inquisitions guide for IB would be great.

 
IBankAllDay:
I've tried linkedin, but I don't want to pay for an account upgrade to be able to send messages to people. Is there a guide anywhere for S&T networking? Something similar to the mergers and inquisitions guide for IB would be great.

LinkedIn has actually been an incredible resource to me thus far. Yes, it's true that you need to upgrade your account in order to directly send messages to random people, but there are ways around that. I've tried to avoid sending messages directly through LinkedIn because I doubt they would get read as frequently, as it's more common for people to check their emails regularly than check LinkedIn... LinkedIn is great because you can filter your results down to your school and job function and all of that.

Usually what I do after I find a person of interest on LinkedIn is look up the email structure of the particular firm the person works at (there are tons of threads on WSO about that) -- super helpful. Just tell the person that you saw their profile on LinkedIn and are interested in connecting with them. (Say you're seeking their advice.)

Anyway, if you want to send a message directly through LinkedIn without a premium account, all you have to do is join the same Group they're in on LinkedIn. You can see people's groups under their profiles typically. You're allowed to join up to 50 groups, so go all out. After that, search for the person again under the Group, and then you'll be able to directly send them a message.

Good luck.

 

I know one person in S&T who is the son of someone my dad works with. I talked to him about his internship last spring but I dont think he is close enough to pull any strings or refer me for an internship. I was supposed to have a BB PWM internship this summer but the company messed up the paperwork and delayed it too long and now its not happening (but they still told me to put it on my resume) so that's out. KeepYourDistance, that sounds like a good start but I dont seem to be getting any replies at all from my alumni database. I think the email addresses are outdated.

 

networking can be really frustrating and seem hopeless. one thing you have to remember though is that it only takes ONE person who really helps you to make things work. Keep trying and it will come.

 

I always reply on the same thread that I originally sent. In the event that they meant to respond to it, and it just got buried, it'll show them that they still haven't responded to you. It also keeps the clutter down in the mailbox.

If they deleted your old e-mail replying on the same thread would show that this isn't the 1st time you've contacted them. Whether that means you're being a pest or persistent depends on who you're e-mailing. I feel like keeping it to one thread and one e-mail address reduces effort on their end, which is what you want.

All in all, make it easy for them to help you, if they should choose too. My 2 cents anyway...

"Do not go gentle into that good night"
 

Thanks for the response. Anyone have some more thoughts?

Should it be the same thread? When should you mention previous emails? Should you do it for emails that were never answered? I guess my question could be divided into three categories:

  1. Emails initiated by me 9 months ago that were never answered.

  2. Emails initiated by me 9 months ago that got a warm initial response, and then when I responded, there was no more response (including subsequent follow ups)

  3. Emails initiated by me 9 months ago that got a warm initial response, followed by a good conversation, but because we decided we couldn't do anything at the time, we stopped trading emails.

 

Dude, you're thinking too much about it. Just shoot them an email saying..

Hi ____,

Thanks for speaking with me last time. It was extremely helpful in blah blah blah. I'm currently looking into XYZ opportunities and was wondering whether you have time for a quick chat over the phone sometime this week.

Name Here.

Banking.
 

when i see these kinds of threads, i kind of cringe. the thing that i realized the most about networking/life in general is that you should just treat people like people.

obviously, you can't be like 'what's good bro,' but just treat the people you've been keeping touch with like they're an older friend or mentor. take an interest in their lives, ask to catch up, etc.

 

Yes its appropriate. You can also reach out to random people who might be a "2nd connection" via Linkedin. I did this and received interviews. You just state you saw you had a connection in common and wanted to reach out regarding the ER internship opportunity. Lots of people are connected from bank to bank and so this is an easy method to use. Its a bonus if they went to like the same MBA program or something. The ones I got were randomly connected to each other and still worked.

Frank Sinatra - "Alcohol may be man's worst enemy, but the bible says love your enemy."
 

Thanks for the tip. If I contact an alumni in IBD for instance, do you think I should ask for an informational interview, or should I ask if he could refer me to someone within research?

"My dear, descended from the apes! Let us hope it is not true, but if it is, let us pray that it will not become generally known."
 

Get an informational interview. It will be more effective and if he likes you he will be more willing to help. Plus, if you change your mind on what you want to do, you will have a contact in his field. I take any phone call i can get when networking: 1. To get experience/confidence on phone interviews 2. For the contacts he could offer me. Good luck.

 

Please do not actually say the phrase 'informational interview' when talking to an employee at the firm. You can ask the about their experiences or perspective, but the phrase 'informational interview' is all sorts of awkward.

 

I would not worry about who you are connect just connect with everyone possible. Who knows how many of the MD's will answer so begin networking with anyone that is willing to give you the time of day do not be picky. You still have 6+ months so I would not worry. I began networking the same time as you and landed 5 interviews and I am a non-target.

 
987654321123456789:

I have been emailing both alumn and cold emailing.

I would like to think that my resume is decent, not the best, but above average.

Should I email MDs? or highest I go is associates?

I think that you can only gain from emailing MDs at this point. I think you should go for it and hope for the best.

Try to get alumni as well as family friends or friends' friends to help you.

 
Zzari:

I e-mailed alumni from my school who were MDs and they ended up passing on my resume after a phone conversation. Definitely can't hurt. On the other hand, I might be a little wary of cold e-mailing MDs who you have no connection to...

I've cold e-mailed MDs and higher that I have zero connection to. There's just a lower chance of them replying/helping you and you really have to sell yourself on the phone (if you get em on the phone). It's not like you'll be blackballed for e-mailing someone you have zero connection to.

 

I would request an informational phone conversation first. Then towards the end of the phone conversation request that they meet for lunch/coffee and then follow up with email to schedule if they approve.

twitter: @StoicTrader1 instagram: @StoicTrader1
 

I always provided mine. If you have a solid resume and whoever you email takes 10-15 secs to look at it and are somewhat impressed, I feel as though they would be more likely to contact you. If you don't provide a resume, for all they know, you could be a complete clown and why would they waste their time emailing you back if they have no idea what type of background you have.

Just my 2cents though.

 

I had a response rife with sarcasm prepared, but someone told me that I should stop doing that. So here's a long, well-thought out answer to your question: yes, it's worth the effort to network with staff below VP.

in it 2 win it
 

I'd say it's arguably better to network with analysts / associates as they're the ones who are going to be screening resumes, setting up phone interviews, and most importantly they'll be the one's you'll be working with / spending most of your time with if you get an offer...if you can't build a strong rapport with those guys you probably won't get the chance to meet senior staff....this is my opinion anyways

 

When it's networking in person (i.e. not cold email or similar) I usually just approach it like a normal conversation - relax, be friendly and smile. Sure you are already doing all of that, but perhaps you could elaborate on exactly what aspects of it that felt uncomfortable?

It's hip to be square!
 

Look, I'm not saying this method won't work, but the trick is not to network hard, it's to network smart. Some of the connections you're making sound tenuous at best and I'm skeptical to see if any of it will actually pay off. Like, seriously, looking for someone "who might have known someone who lived in NY" doesn't make you sound like a hustler, it makes you sound fucking autistic. When I was in banking, if some acquaintance from my distant past went out of his way to introduce some acquaintance from his distant past, my brow would be furrowed as fuck.

You can't simultaneously be a non-target and have a low EQ, you just can't. Your whole value-prop as a non-target is that you can bring social skills to the table that aren't necessarily found in your target school counterparts. Literally, that's the whole premise of the bank being willing to take the risk on you. This method shows a lack of social awareness that would set off red flags in my mind.

I wish you luck with it and if you've even found success this way, then congrats, but I think others coming here to find advice should be wary of yours.

“Millionaires don't use astrology, billionaires do”
 

THIS IS A TERRIBLE IDEA!!! NOBODY EVER GETS A JOB THROUGH NETWORKING. THE BEST WAY TO GET A JOB IS TO HIDE UNDER YOUR BED AND WAIT FOR SOMEONE TO SHOW UP WITH A JOB OFFER.

OK, now that the trolling is done...

What's your situation? Cold emailing/calling/messaging can help; the worst case is that you wind up with an asshole like me who hates aggressive people and I ignore you or maybe shoot you down a little harder if I find you exceptionally irritating (this is rare but sometimes happens when I am speaking to an English major from -insert amazing liberal arts school here- who thinks he is entitled to a QR job and isn't getting the point that we need someone with a strong stats background.) Then you are onto your next contact.

Oftentimes there are better approaches. Sometimes alumni connections can be really helpful. Again, being an asshole, I normally ignore a lot of emails I get. I usually don't ignore emails from UIUC or Princeton students/alumns, especially those from the College of Engineering or the Bendheim Center, respectively. When I was in NYC and I was one of the only Big Ten alumns, I'd also (often) respond to Big Ten people who wanted jobs at an investment bank. You have to remember that outside of a small handful of schools, most NYC bankers come from East coast schools. People from outside of the east coast find the long trail of people from east coast schools landing jobs at banks relatively monotonous. So if you come from the same large non-east-coast conference as someone else- EG the Pac 8, Big 10, or Big 12, that may be enough of a connection to elicit a response.

The more of a connection you have to someone, the more they are willing to help you. I would recommend "cool-calling" over cold-calling to the extent that this is possible. Find people with a mild to moderate connection and connect with them.

1.) You have to put more into a job than you take out. Think about how you can help people and what you bring to the table. Think about jobs that can leverage your skills and abilities. I am a geeky engineering guy who enjoys programming and stats, and I'm a little bit introverted around people I don't know; I'm a great quant but I would suck as a banker.

2.) Figure out what you have in common with other people and try to be interested in them. "How to Win Friends and Influence People" is a very old book but it's still a good book to read. "How to Attract Terrific People" by Lillian Glass is a little bit newer and is also helpful.

3.) It's tough. But it gets easier with practice.

I've never gotten a job through cold-calling, but this is what I've seen work.

 

IlliniProgrammer - Thanks, I appreciate a lot the level of detail in your response. I have been trying to connect with Alumni, but I just wanted to see etiquette when it come to complete strangers, but like you said, it depends on much of a connection I have with them. LinkedIn shows only as much as the user is willing to show, so there is that limitation.

My situation would is someone looking to be interviewed for full time IBD recruiting, ideally at a BB. Their # may be really hard to find, but emails I can figure out with their email format, and LinkedIn I can find them easily too.

 

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