How hard is it really to go past the first round (resume round) without networking?

Hey guys.

I have a question that might have been answered previously but I don't know where it is so I'll just ask it.
How hard is it to get past the first round (not the interview, resume round) without any networking for BB IBD Summer Analyst roles or for Boutique I-Banks like Moelis or Evercore, as someone in top 15 college with 3.7 GPA and relevant internship experiences? I'm asking this question because I heard that networking is usually for getting your resume passed.

Also, after the first round, how tough is the competition for me? I know that this may sound like a stupid question but what are the odds that a guy like me get a FO IBD role in BB or Botique IBanks? like 1 to 10? 1 to 5?

Thank you guys and good luck on your upcoming recruitment!

 

If you have OCR you don't "need" to do any networking. The purpose of networking isn't to ask for a job right away, but rather to establish a relationship so when the time comes, they can lend a hand.

We can't answer the second question without knowing more about you as a candidate, and it would be pointless trying to quantify anything because you can get dinged during the process for a multitude of reasons. I suggest purchasing the WSO behavioural/technical guide, understand(not just memorize) the answers to questions that come up on investment banking interviews and overall try to be more personable.

 

Pretty damn hard if you just apply online. I've applied online to hundreds of jobs recently. They're a black hole for resumes. And I'm not even applying to any IBs, BB or MM or boutique. I'm simply applying to shit jobs. I've sent out apps to all F500 companies. No response.

Use OCR if you're at a good school. Use it to hell, your life depends on it.

 

Thanks guys! And I know that the odds question was a pretty dumb question, but I meant it as how many people make it past the resume round versus how many people actually get offers? Like if 100 people goes past the resume round and 10 people get offers the odds would be 1 to 10.

 

It's going to be incredibly hard without networking and that really only plays in to get a first round. After the first round, you're kind of on your own unless they really like you and will fight for you.

Think of it this way, BB take probably about 50 new summer analysts a year (probably close, maybe low) and that's per bank so with all summer analysts at all banks from BB to boutique, maybe that comes out to 1000 SAs a year nationwide (probably high). I'm guessing that the Ivies alone easily cover that with candidates and then you have other schools such as Stanford, Michigan, Texas (for energy), UVA, UNC, etc that likely double that candidate pool and then you have all of the non-targets and international students. All told, that's likely to be a pool of probably 10000+ which means that you have 10% chance at ANY internship in IB.

If you're at a target, not sure since you said top 15, then you probably have closer to a 25% chance for an internship.

TLDR: It's incredibly hard, not networking will only make it more difficult.

 
Best Response
BTOWN:

It's going to be incredibly hard without networking and that really only plays in to get a first round. After the first round, you're kind of on your own unless they really like you and will fight for you.

Think of it this way, BB take probably about 50 new summer analysts a year (probably close, maybe low) and that's per bank so with all summer analysts at all banks from BB to boutique, maybe that comes out to 1000 SAs a year nationwide (probably high). I'm guessing that the Ivies alone easily cover that with candidates and then you have other schools such as Stanford, Michigan, Texas (for energy), UVA, UNC, etc that likely double that candidate pool and then you have all of the non-targets and international students. All told, that's likely to be a pool of probably 10000+ which means that you have 10% chance at ANY internship in IB.

If you're at a target, not sure since you said top 15, then you probably have closer to a 25% chance for an internship.

TLDR: It's incredibly hard, not networking will only make it more difficult.

3.7 GPA, Top 15 UG, Relevant Internships --->25% chance of an internship? Thats ridiculous.

OP if you have OCR, which you probably do, you can easily get a couple first rounds just from submitting your resume on your campus portal. From there it will be up to you to convert. Networking usually only helps you get the first interview, not subsequent interviews. Once you get the first interview, its game time and up to your performance.

Your calculations are absurd and not taking into account numerous important variables. There are only a small percentage of kids at each of those schools that are applying for IB internships, and kids from those schools are turning down IB left and right for MBB and Tech companies. Yes, only a small percentage of applicants get IB internships. How many of those applicants have a 3.7 from a top school with relevant experience? very, very little.

 
Carey11:

Networking is very important. The easier you apply, the easier it is to cut you. Expect 0 chance by just applying online.

This is wrong. My current role I got from applying online with no networking whatsoever, I also got numerous interviews from just applying.

Yes, its not easy or likely. But saying it has zero chance is not accurate.

 

I said to expect 0 chance by just applying online to emphasize the importance of networking for BB / EB -- A direct and helpful answer for OP. You admit that it is very unlikely-- we aren't here to calculate the exact odds.

Congrats on your current role by simply applying online...

jss09 (Senior Gorilla, 768 ) on 6/10/15 at 11:11am "I am in F500 Finance, so im not a banker,"

Source: http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/what-do-people-go-on-to-do-at-tec…

 
Carey11:

I said to expect 0 chance by just applying online to emphasize the importance of networking for BB / EB -- A direct and helpful answer for OP. You admit that it is very unlikely-- we aren't here to calculate the exact odds.

Congrats on your current role by simply applying online...

jss09 (Senior Gorilla, 768 ) on 6/10/15 at 11:11am
"I am in F500 Finance, so im not a banker,"

Source: //www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/what-do-peop...

I interviewed for BB IB jobs, in addition to my current job, through online apps. No need to go back and quote my post history, the fact that I work in F500 Corporate Devleopment is in my tag. You can go ahead and stop derailing this thread with your prestige whoring.

 

No idea how "prestige whoring" is implied by my statement.

OP asked for banking jobs... you backup your statement that you got your current job from simply applying online... but your current job is in F500.

Struggle at reading comprehension much?

 

At a target, networking is not too important for first rounds through OCR. If you are interested in accelerated recruiting or any other very specific request (eg. groups like GS SSG/ BX PE), networking is more necessary. For boutiques, networking does help a lot; I've heard a good benchmark is to speak with at least one person at each bank you're applying to.

For reference, at my school, generally you'll get 6-15 first rounds at BBs, top boutiques, and top MM firms w/ a 3.7 and relevant experience. Whether you're on the lower end of that range or the higher end largely depends on networking.

 

Once you're at the interview who you know matters zilch. The people you know will not interview you, nor will they "put in a good word" for you, and even if they did this would not influence decisions.

Some people are natural networkers, and some people are not - given your question I suspect you belong to the latter category. For you there may not be much point in it. For people in the prior category, networking can gain you access to useful hints and tips, and a good understanding of what the culture of each firm may be like.

 
baykus:
Once you're at the interview who you know matters zilch. The people you know will not interview you, nor will they "put in a good word" for you, and even if they did this would not influence decisions.

This was not my experience.

 

Prior to second-rounds, is it okay to reach out to members of the firm to ask questions regarding the firm in general?

We can't rely on anyone these days, we just have to do things ourselves don't we?
 

Pre-first-rounds: Networking can help you land an interview

Post-first-rounds: Following up with your "connections" can help get you an insider's perspective on what they're looking for, the office culture, leadership etc. which can be helpful during the interview

 
ToxicSushi:
Pre-first-rounds: Networking can help you land an interview

Post-first-rounds: Following up with your "connections" can help get you an insider's perspective on what they're looking for, the office culture, leadership etc. which can be helpful during the interview

That said, if your connection is a partner, especially a partner in the office that you're applying for, and for some reason they want to give you a little extra help beyond just landing an interview, then I can't imagine why that wouldn't positively influence your final-round interviews.

 

Wow Thank you guys!

I just checked my Career Cat and I do have some BB banks and Botiques coming to my school. So how much would networking help for schools that do ocr? I'm planning to meet some bankers in NY next week but do you think it is almost a 'waste' to meet them because it only helps for the first round? Does networking not help at all after the first round?

 

Depends on the person man. I have family in BB and they say that if your like uncle or close family friend is an MD, then he'll be able to push you straight through. However, if you just have a "networking" connection (ie, got to know person thru events/cold emailing/calling), they won't stick their neck out for you as much so it's weaker. If they're an analyst/associate, it'll only really help for first round.

 

Very rare, but sometimes you'll get someone to bite. I got two 1st round interviews from decent MM banks last year by just applying online, and two (and counting, hopefully) 1st round interview offers this month by applying online, without any connections (not for lack of trying -- no one there would respond to my emails).

Ultra-non-target school, great academic stats, decent extra-curriculars.

 

In all honesty, you really don't have anything to lose.

Option 1: Apply online, 1% success rate. Option 2: Do not apply online, 0% success rate.

Seems like a no brainer to me.

'I'm jacked... JACKED TO THE TITS!!'
 

Yes, it's always worth sending in the app online, even if you have no prior connections to the firm.

One of my high school friends at a total non-target got ibd interviews at Stifel, Barclays, and Wells Fargo last year just by applying online. And in my own experience, I've gotten interviews at Credit Suisse equity research, T. Rowe fixed income, and AllianceBernstein fixed income doing the exact same thing.

People on this website always harp on networking, but truth be told, a lot of the job search also comes down to random luck. So accept that, and apply to as many things as you can.

 

Networking is still crucial even if you're at a target with a good GPA. Trust me, I've been in the room where resumes are reviewed multiple times. 90-95% of the kids we picked for a first round had talked to 2+ people there and made a decent impression. 100% of the kids went to 2 or more on-campus networking sessions. Of the ~25ish first rounds my alma mater received, 7 or 8 got internship offers each year at the BB I worked at.

One of the biggest mistakes you can make going through recruiting is underestimating the importance of networking. It's easy to pick up the phone and call a few people - just do it.

 

Since networking is a must, how do you recommend networking for someone 8 years out of a state school and trying to get into the industry? How do you meet people?

3.67 GPA at non-target Finance major 3 years experience in accounting

Thank you.

 
Filthydelphia:

Since networking is a must, how do you recommend networking for someone 8 years out of a state school and trying to get into the industry? How do you meet people?

3.67 GPA at non-target
Finance major
3 years experience in accounting

Thank you.

What did you spend the other 5 years doing? As someone mentioned before, and as per my observation of people in similar background, MBA school is likely your best bet.

 
M- Weintraub:
Filthydelphia:
Since networking is a must, how do you recommend networking for someone 8 years out of a state school and trying to get into the industry? How do you meet people?
3.67 GPA at non-target
Finance major
3 years experience in accounting
Thank you.

What did you spend the other 5 years doing? As someone mentioned before, and as per my observation of people in similar background, MBA school is likely your best bet.

I did odd jobs out of college. A few years as a manager in the food industry for Sodexo, a teller at Wells Fargo, data entry at the defunct Wachovia, bellhop, etc.

I was also a logistics officer in the Marine Corps.

I want to get more credible experience before seeking an MBA.

 

kdy0218 , if you're applying through OCR, you've a "great" shot at getting an interview. If you're applying online, you don't have a great shot. It's simple as that.

An anecdotal data point: I applied online for my current gig, F100 finance, pays as much as a 2nd year IB analyst minus the bonus (I'm 2 years out from college). However, that was one application of over 200 submitted online, plus over 30 interviews with recruiters over the span of 4 months. Yes, I kept track. I did not submit applications wantonly - each submission I made sure fit my background and that I was a good profile fit for. I got some 10 interviews worth going to, 1 full-time offer, and only 3 of the recruiter interviews led to offers (of ~30).

Taken from my example, you could estimate your online odds at getting from resume to interview stage at 5%, and your odds of getting an offer by working with a recruiter at 10% (pretty much all recruiter interviews lead to job interviews, but the quality of many of those jobs... lol).

Your milage may vary, and take note that this is for someone with a non-target degree. If you go to a top 15 school, multiply the above percentages by, like, 9,000.

 

Depends greatly on the firm. Others have spoken to OCR, but there are some exceptions. On the other end of the spectrum I know of at least one Bulge Bracket firm hiring program where we were told directly by the program manager that if you apply and nobody else in the relevant diversity group recognizes the name on the resume, then your resume gets tossed without even being looked at.

 

Delectus et qui et doloribus. Sed saepe quisquam iusto earum deserunt ex. Voluptatem ipsam commodi consequatur debitis dolorem. Possimus culpa et numquam amet ut. Eveniet enim quo sint autem voluptatem neque. Cumque velit qui in dolorem consequatur vel ut. Autem non voluptatem occaecati fugit voluptates.

 

Et tempora excepturi eum doloribus quia. Blanditiis fuga a omnis est.

Magnam laboriosam molestias id neque quia consequatur ut. Illo enim asperiores ab necessitatibus aspernatur voluptatibus autem. Velit odit aliquam quis iure omnis.

Ut aut vel voluptatem unde voluptatem sequi. Consequuntur reiciendis omnis praesentium fugiat delectus reiciendis. Alias beatae eum inventore fugiat ut saepe vel adipisci. Est voluptatem saepe earum voluptates adipisci beatae aut accusamus. Rerum neque modi sunt vel repellendus non. Nihil sunt animi nobis voluptates.

Nam qui quia perspiciatis sed aliquid consequatur et. Omnis reiciendis et veritatis velit maiores sint. Qui est sint similique ab consectetur. Aut sunt hic autem harum vel ab omnis fuga. Praesentium voluptas voluptatem soluta et repellendus error.

Career Advancement Opportunities

March 2024 Investment Banking

  • Jefferies & Company 02 99.4%
  • Goldman Sachs 19 98.8%
  • Harris Williams & Co. (++) 98.3%
  • Lazard Freres 02 97.7%
  • JPMorgan Chase 03 97.1%

Overall Employee Satisfaction

March 2024 Investment Banking

  • Harris Williams & Co. 18 99.4%
  • JPMorgan Chase 10 98.8%
  • Lazard Freres 05 98.3%
  • Morgan Stanley 07 97.7%
  • William Blair 03 97.1%

Professional Growth Opportunities

March 2024 Investment Banking

  • Lazard Freres 01 99.4%
  • Jefferies & Company 02 98.8%
  • Goldman Sachs 17 98.3%
  • Moelis & Company 07 97.7%
  • JPMorgan Chase 05 97.1%

Total Avg Compensation

March 2024 Investment Banking

  • Director/MD (5) $648
  • Vice President (19) $385
  • Associates (86) $261
  • 3rd+ Year Analyst (13) $181
  • Intern/Summer Associate (33) $170
  • 2nd Year Analyst (66) $168
  • 1st Year Analyst (202) $159
  • Intern/Summer Analyst (144) $101
notes
16 IB Interviews Notes

“... there’s no excuse to not take advantage of the resources out there available to you. Best value for your $ are the...”

Leaderboard

1
redever's picture
redever
99.2
2
Secyh62's picture
Secyh62
99.0
3
Betsy Massar's picture
Betsy Massar
99.0
4
BankonBanking's picture
BankonBanking
99.0
5
kanon's picture
kanon
98.9
6
CompBanker's picture
CompBanker
98.9
7
dosk17's picture
dosk17
98.9
8
DrApeman's picture
DrApeman
98.9
9
GameTheory's picture
GameTheory
98.9
10
bolo up's picture
bolo up
98.8
success
From 10 rejections to 1 dream investment banking internship

“... I believe it was the single biggest reason why I ended up with an offer...”