Recent graduate trying to get his first job in real estate - Advice?
Hey guys,
I am a December 2016 graduate from a SEC school. I completed a double major in accounting and finance. After graduation, I was unsure of what I wanted to do with my life, so I stuck around for an extra semester and took a couple of classes. One of these classes was a real estate investments course. It covered things such as title, property rights, cap rates, income property valuation, and real estate finance. This led to my decision to pursue a career in real estate. I want to eventually end up in development.
As I stated earlier, graduated with a double major in accounting and finance. My GPA is right at a 3.0. My previous work experience is in the audit department of a smaller, regional CPA firm. I was involved in the audits of at least 20 different real estate properties. Most of these properties were HUD, LIHTC, and only a few market-rate, multifamily properties. I was involved in the audits of these properties from start to finish. I saw everything from the cash accounts all the way to drafting the financial statements. I absorbed a lot of information about these types of properties during my internship. However, I found out that I hated accounting, which is what prompted me to pick up finance as a second major.
My goal is to eventually get an analyst role with a developer. However, I am very realistic about what kind of jobs I will be able to get (because of my limited professional experience and average GPA). My question is, given the information about my work and school history, what would be the best first real estate job for someone like myself?
Appraisal is one field I have heard is a good area to get a year or two of experience under your belt. I've read that appraisal at the bigger shops (CBRE, JLL, CW) would be the best for this type of first experience. Any other good first places to start? Sorry for the length of the post. Any advice is greatly appreciated!
There are a few other threads similar to this I believe, but the consensus is that unless you get lucky and find a developer that will take you out of the gate, you'll need 2-3 years of sell-side experience as you alluded to above. Appraisal is an option, although I would say that those roles are not as directly related to development/acquisitions as an analyst role on an investment sales and/or capital markets team. For that reason alone, not factoring in consideration for standard work hours, comp, etc., I would personally go for one of those types of roles if you want to get into development specifically, but appraisal is not a bad backup plan.
Thanks for the response! I've looked into these kinds of roles before. The problem I've run across with the analyst roles with investment sales or capital markets teams, is that they require 1-3 years experience. Of course, this tends to be at the bigger shops like CBRE, JLL, CW, HFF, etc. Are there any places that do take recent grads for the type of roles you've mentioned?
Most of the places just say that as a CYA. In some cases, they prefer to take someone with no experience so they can train you the way they want to. You just have to be patient to find teams like this.
I have an almost identical background. December grad from and SEC school with the most average GPA you’ve ever seen.
I will be starting in a buyside Analyst role starting in 2018. Real Estate is networking heavy. I found that getting out as many cold emails as you can and finding ways to show that you have a sincere interest in Real Estate is key. Start looking at markets where you’re interested in working. I was able to get ahold of Offering Materials on some properties in my area and I learned to model them.
I don’t think that accounting background will hinder you too much. Definitely point to LIHTC projects as sparking your interest. In terms of getting into a Development Analyst role... It seems that Development shops are incredibly lean. It’s tough to break in as a 22 or 23 year old. I would start by looking for analyst positions in brokerage or at a bank with decent reach. Check SelectLeaders. Real Estate firms don’t always anticipate upcoming need so don’t always expect job postings.
If you have any ther questions feel free to PM me!
Sent you a PM!
Congrats on finding a job! I've found out recently that finding a job in real estate is very network dependent. Out of curiosity, did you find a job in the southeast? I'm trying to find a job in ATL, Charlotte, Nashville, BHM, or any other big city in the south.
Your limited experience is much more of a negative than your GPA (only the most white-shoe'd firms will even care) but appraisal just sounds awful. It may work for you, but I couldn't even stand a class on it.
Yeah, the lack of experience is a hurdle I haven't quite figured out how to jump. I definitely don't want to do appraisal, but it seems like a decent last resort.
Appraisal sucks. Avoid it like the plague.
I already had appraisal in my mind as a "last resort". I'm assuming that you have personal experience in the field?
I don't but my very close friend at a previous role did. He did not like it one bit, but I guess it could be a decent launching pad in understanding how to value properties.
CBRE Valuation (appraisal) is a great start if you can make it past the high barrier to entry. We are commission based so you make what you bring in or can produce. I've been in the business for a little over a year and have already valued 100MM+ assets and have networked with every party to the transaction (buyer/seller/broker/developer/agency/etc). You can't go wrong with cutting your teeth and then networking into your next opportunity, plus the prestige of CBRE will carry the day vice the appraisal experience.
What market/region are you located in? I was thinking of doing Valuations @ CBRE as an internship
South Central. Offices in Houston and Dallas.
I think it's well worth reinstating that real estate is EXTREMELY network heavy. My best advice and what helped me get an analyst role w/ a developer out of undergrad was my network. Don't be afraid to cold email people and make sure you can genuinely display interest in the industry when prompted.
Will have to agree with appraisals from personal experience - me and 2 other guys in my appraisal shop all went on to acquisitions in REPE after that due largely to our appraisal experience.
I will say though - not sure if going large-shop appraisals is necessarily the best. We worked in a small 8-9 person shop in 1st tier northeast city. The boss was tough as nails but he taught you a ton. Due to size of the firm, we were pretty much forced to work on the full range of asset classes, and were responsible for both front-end / back-end reports - ultimately got a pretty comprehensive picture of what was going on for each job we had. Business wise, this is obviously not a great way to scale your production.
Based on what people I worked with who moved on to larger shops like CBRE / Cushman etc etc, have said, larger shops segment appraisals between front end / backend, and between different asset classes which allows them to really crank out these reports. Unfortunately you're often not seeing each deal through from start to finish when work is divided like this.
Since staying in appraisals was never my objective, I consider myself very lucky to have done my time such a small shop where I was able to gain a ton of knowledge in a very short amount of time, which is what probably helped me jump into REPE after far less than a year there. As another poster also said though, "interest in real estate is key." Can't stress that enough.
I am a recent college grad trying to break into CRE. I have no RE xp but have a PE internship, how can I relate PE to RE? (Originally Posted: 06/21/2017)
Best way to relate my Private Equity experience to CRE in an interview? There was no financial modelling in my PE internship otherwise it would have been a pretty simple sell. Any advice is greatly appreciated!
What did you do in your internship?
Scoured the internet for potential acquisitions within a certain industry. It was all qualitative.
Show you have a strong interest in CRE. Talk intelligently about the current market and what you think will happen in the future. You should try reaching out to brokerage shops (JLL/CBRE/CW) since generally, brokerage doesn't require as much financial modeling as an AM or acquisitions role would.
If you're applying for brokerage, my last interviewer at C&W (the COO) said that it's mostly/all relationship based sales, fwiw
Advice for Non-Target Grad looking to break into Commercial Real Estate (Originally Posted: 07/26/2015)
Graduated in May from a non-target Midwest public school with a 3.77 GPA and a summer internship experience at a small real estate/ capital markets company. I'm looking for an analyst role, primarily interested in CRE (because of my internship experience), but also considering AM. Looking to go to the coasts in NYC or LA, but have had a lot of trouble getting even considered for interviews.
Any advice for where to look or what to do so that I can get at least a phone interview? I've tried going through my school's alumni network but I'm starting to run out of connections. What are the things that banks are looking for in analysts? What are the red flags? Maybe its something on my resume or application.
Midwest as in?
Not sure where you are in the Midwest, but I'm from there and what I did was reach out to local IBs and PE groups and let them know you are interested. If you can genuinely show interest - even if they aren't hiring now - they may want to set aside time to meet with you. It may be just a matter of time then.
Good luck
Your first hurdle is going to be location - not actually being located where you are applying is going to throw you out of the candidate pool (or you will be second choice for interviews) for a lot of places because there aren't a lot of relocation packages for analysts. Really the only way I've seen big analyst city moves is via networking (which doesn't seem to be working for you), flat out moving to a city and praying, or putting together a longer-term plan to move with time.
You didn't say where you were in the Midwest, but there are a lot of servicing companies and small life cos in the Midwest. If you could attach yourself to one of those, then in a few years you might have a shot at a transfer (but going servicing is an even harder road because you are also doing the BO to FO shuffle). Or if you we're willing to interim step to Chicago, that could open a lot of doors in time.
I have a lot of friends that interim stepped to Charlotte, transferred to NYC and then after a couple of years up there being "poor," moved back to CLT so their kids could have a yard and their $ would buy a house they could live in without being able to touch all 4 walls at once.
One thing to note: if you do get the interview in LA or NYC, make it very clear why you want to move and you are committed to the city. Nobody wants to hire the guy who moves to the big city and then decides he/she hates it/is homesick after 6 months and moves back. However, this is a fine dance, because you also can't make people think that you only using the job as a bridge to move (even if that is exactly what you are doing).
When I got my current spot, I moved 1200 miles to a state where I knew virtually nobody. If I was going to stay was obviously something that was on people's mind as multiple questions surrounding my relocation came up in every interview (I think I had 15 interviewers in 8 sessions during my super day). I do know that a big part it was that at the end of the year before, a director had accepted a position and they had moved him. Because it was the middle of the school year, he moved, but his family was going to wait until the summer to join him. When June came, his daughter had just been accepted to some special performing arts high school, so instead of moving his family, he quit and went back to his old position. They were obviously upset about it because hiring a new director isn't exactly an easy process and they definitely weren't going to go through that with an analyst.
And then on the other side, we were interviewing associates last month and there is one that stood out when asked about relocation (we had three candidates that would all need to relocate). When we all congregated after the interviews, it was felt that he only wanted the job to get him to NYC - that he wouldn't stay with our group or company in the long term, but just needed the bridge. He did not get the job.
I think the most common thing that RE groups look for is a passion for RE. I've never been in an interview or given an interview where some form, "why RE?" hasn't been asked. RE people love RE and are always looking for other people who love it as much as they do. In every hiring decisions that I've been a part of, people that were more academically qualified have always been passed over for people who were more passionate. So take some classes (Argus, something from the Apprasial Institute, or a CCIM course, etc), join an organization or something to show you are interested beyond what everyone else is.
The associate we just hired? Came from a corporate finance group and beat out a fresh grad MBA with a concentration in RE from a top program and an internal because he showed the most passion for RE and the job.
As the others have said, start in your own market. You can always do grad school and then transfer cities but real estate isn't a "bounce around from city to city on a whim" industry. No one in NYC or LA is going to hire you and you know nothing about those cities, much less the market, much less the various submarkets.
The other option, if it's financially viable, is to simply move to one of those cities and then apply. "Fake it until you make it" in other words. Here's my anecdote for you - I dated a girl long distance for a year and it became time for one of us to make the move. She was in a more desirable city and I needed a change, so I started applying for jobs in her city but although I got a couple interviews and "networking meetings" I didn't get close to an offer. Moved there anyhow and, with that new address on my resume, within two weeks I got a job.
where to start learning about real estate? (Originally Posted: 08/07/2016)
So my school places a lot of kids into real estate firms like CBRE, HFF, etc and I'm trying to figure out what exactly these firms do and what kind of people succeed in this role in order to see if this is something I'm interested in pursuing.
Anyone know where I should start? Or if anyone on this forum can answer these questions for me?
For example, what exactly does a real estate analyst at BlackRock do? What about a real estate analyst at HFF?
CBRE/HFF are large brokerage firms that have a variety of services within them. If you start in brokerage, you will be working on a team (hopefully a good one) and will provide support in all things required to market and sell real estate. You might opt for tenant rep/landlord rep work (leasing) rather than sales but these firms all do this type of work. If you are a people person and feel your interpersonal skills have always been a strength, you might enjoy this work and could very well succeed. At the end of the day, you are facilitating the transaction process (whether it be leasing or selling). Pay is commission based though some shops will pay their analysts and shift you into a producer role after you feel you're ready to go commission only. Beyond leasing/sales, there is capital advisory in which you are brokering debt or equity for real estate deals. Sponsors (developers/operators) will hire a CBRE or HFF to raise capital needed to do a deal, hence you would come in this way if you go that route.
BlackRock is more of an investment/asset manager so you would probably start as an analyst underwriting deals and potential acquisitions for their portfolio. This would be much more analytical and you would probably spend a lot more time in front of the computer (on excel/argus) than brokers would. At the end of the day, you will need to work hard to be successful at whatever path you choose but as a 2nd year MBA in real estate, I've heard many times that starting in brokerage is a great way to learn the business and will provide a great background should you choose to lateral into private equity or development some day. If you would prefer to be in developer or private equity right off the get go, I would recruit hard for those types of shops and stay focused. There are many topics on this forum that will help you understand the different roles so a thorough search of material that has already been covered should get the balling rolling for you.
So if someone says they are a real estate analyst at a company like CBRE/HFF, that probably means they work in the capital advisory field right?
I know there is a lot of potential to make good money in brokerage, is the same true if you work in capital advisory? I don't think i have the right personality to work in a sales role.
First place I would start would be the kids from your school that work there. They'll help you, just ask. You are at one of the few points in your life when you can email these guys, their bosses, or their bosses' bosses and actually get a reply, because you are a student and people like helping students. Start setting up informational interviews and then ask those guys if there is anyone else they would recommend you talk to.
Thanks, I definitely plan on doing this, but would like to have some basic knowledge about this before I start asking . I literally don't know anything as of right now
I would purchase the textbook, "Real Estate Finance And Investments" by Peter Linneman.
At a high level a junior analyst doing. .
Brokerage leasing: would be creating market surveys, stacking plans, prospecting, and binding said surveys for clients. Investment Sales: create argus runs and models to market an asset. Also marketing materials. Acquisitions: would receive OMs from a broker, run them through argus, model it in house, DD. Dispositions: opposite of acquisitions. Research: gather and analyze data, survey, and synthesize information for internal customers Capital Markets (Lending): underwrite the collateral, DD, Investment banking: create pitch books, prepare powerpoints, construct detailed financial models. (don't know as much about this sector) Institutional investor: work on asset mgmt, due diligence, monitor investments, measure performance, prepare reports. Commercial bank (Loans): assist in DD, checking financial projections, construction timelines, analyse balance sheets of borrowers. Developers: create models and marketing material for capital partners and potential tenants. GC: work on budgets, monitor project timing and costs, facilitate negotiations with vendors. REITS: see institutional investor. (Not as familiar with this one.)
Other areas include: law, architects, planners, equity placement (CBRE HFF), marketing. .
Hope this helps a little. .
Big question, which one is the laziest of the jobs that provide decent comp?
Any good books to read that aren't textbooks? I'm a beginner, but definitely intrigued by a career in real estate investing, and really not sure where to start.
I'm reading "The Real Estate Game" right now. I'm about half way through it, and it's pretty entertaining, but it could also be a good intro to the basics of RE investing for beginners.
Hard to find good real estate books that aren't textbooks. Still, here's a solid reading list in no particular order:
"Other People's Money: Inside the Housing Crisis and the Demise of the Greatest Real Estate Deal Ever Made" is a fantastic read, but real estate people are definitely the "bad guys" in the story. I was rooting for the "villain" the whole way. (https://www.amazon.com/Other-Peoples-Money-Housing-Greatest/dp/01421807…)
"The Celebration Chronicles: Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Property Value in Disney's New Town" is similar in that it doesn't paint developers in the best light, but it's a good read. (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0345417526/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o08_…)
"King of Capital: The Remarkable Rise, Fall, and Rise Again of Steve Schwarzman and Blackstone" isn't about real estate really, but Blackstone is one of the biggest names in the industry so it's cool to get some insight into the company. (https://www.amazon.com/King-Capital-Remarkable-Schwarzman-Blackstone/dp…)
"Hines: A Legacy of Quality in the Built Environment" is similar, telling the story of how Gerald Hines build one of the largest and best real estate firms in the world (https://www.amazon.com/Hines-Legacy-Quality-Built-Environment/dp/097495…)
"My Life with Charles Fraser" is similar insight into a legend. The man built most of Hilton Head, Sea Pines Plantation, Amelia Island, Kiawah Island, and Palmas del Mar resorts. (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0990827313/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o06_…)
"Threshold Resistance: The Extraordinary Career of a Luxury Retailing Pioneer" is dated at this point, because it's waaaaaay too bullish on malls (written in 2007), but it's hard to deny Taubman's influence and it's a quick, solid read. He's pretty funny. (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0061235377/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o07_…)
I don't have the background for RE PE, so plan to pay dues doing commercial sales and then make the transition. (Originally Posted: 12/04/2016)
I lack the education (liberal arts major, non target) and re experience to get RE PE so was thinking I could hustle and get a sales associate position in commercial real estate brokerage and then after a few years transition over to a RE PE firm.
I am in NYC.
What do you guys think of this strategy? What shops should I target for my search/applications?
I think going the brokerage route is a good strategy, but would suggest trying to get an investment sales analyst position rather than a sales position.
As far as companies, all the big names should be targets: Eastdil, CBRE, C&W, JLL, Newmark, HFF, etc. I know for a fact that HFF will consider / has hired motivated, sharp people for analyst roles who don't come from a finance or CRE background. You just have to sell yourself and your strengths.
Feel free to PM me. I came from a non-traditional background (English undergrad @ Cal Berkeley, ran a small business for five years) and currently work in REPE. It's possible to break in.
Good advice - try and expose yourself to as much as the process as possible and focus on learning rather than just earning comm (i.e. quality of relationships over number of deals)
Excellent. Thank you guys.
Investment sales is a must otherwise I would look into a job in CRE lending or another area of CRE finance.
Leasing brokerage would not be an easy jump to a finance role.
Thank you.
How would Newmark Grubb Knight Frank be specifically as an entry level sale associate for learning the ropes, making contacts, obtaining valuation skills and serving as a few year launch pad to RE PE?
NGKF would be great, but just to re-iterate: if you want to be an investment sales broker, prioritize a sales associate role. If you want to transition into REPE, you should heavily prioritize obtaining an investment sales analyst role.
Bd, Will do, thanks. As an investment sales associate, do you recommend any specific (retail, office, MF, vacant land/development site, etc) asset class to focus on (if given the chance to specialize of course) which will give the most future opportunity? Thanks again.
There's opportunity in every asset class. You need to figure out what characteristics about each asset class appeal to you the most and make your own decision.
Makes sense and thank you.
What do you guys think of Venture Capital Properties in NYC? Would an investment sales analyst role in a place like that, say for 2 years, allow REPE exit opportunities? (I imagine it is best to learn, contribute and network from within an active place in the locale you want to work as opposed to spinning your virtual wheels for months on end responding to online job posts and not getting any responses). Please excuse the spitball type questioning as my career research is a work in progress and having a springboard in you guys really helps.
I've seen them spam job postings for Sales jobs on Indeed before with the description of earnings potential of 250K plus. Any firm that does that, is skeptical, at least to me.
edit: looking at their site now they do seem to have decent deal flow though.
That was my sentiment as well. I researched them on real deal and they have been involved in some solid commercial property deals over the past few years. Perhaps if your resume highlights the xyz deals at abc figures you worked on/contributed to that would/could trump brand value?
Atlanta Commercial Real Estate: Where to Start? (Originally Posted: 01/30/2014)
I recently graduated from college this past December and to said the job hunt has been nerve racking and unsuccessful is an understatement. I have been on a few interviews here and there but nothing has come to fruition yet.
I really have taken an interest in commercial real estate, unfortunately everything I can find listed they want you to know/ have some experience and the ones with no real experience needed are with the bigger banks which I know don't take one look at my resume due to the school I graduated from regardless of GPA and solid experience.
I'm looking for any advice I can get to start getting myself in the door.
I hear anything on Peachtree is a home run.
haha see what you did there
Start by reading A Man In Full by Tom Wolfe
I have noticed that and will keep looking through the list that you guys have on here. I don't know if the Man in Full is a serious suggestion.
Kinda. It'sa fiction book about extremely successful real estate developer in Atlanta in the early 2000's, it's very entertaining.
New to Real Estate Investing... Where to Start? (Originally Posted: 07/28/2016)
I am just coming off of living a year at home after graduating from a non-target school in 2015. During my tenure at home, I was able to save a significant amount of money that I am looking to invest in real estate. I have saved around ~$25-35k that I am considering using to purchase a condo, duplex, etc. for rental income. I figure that I have enough money saved to handle the down payment and any initial expenses on this home. I am new to real estate investing and I am wondering if anyone has tips on how to start. I am looking to grow slowly over time. Thanks in advance for your help!
Look into buying a fourplex with an FHA loan. You have to live in one of the units, but the FHA loan gives you the option to put a very low down payment (don't know the exact number but think as low as 5%ish). It will be easier for you to manage given you live right there and could be a great option for a starter property.
I have been researching FHA loans and these seem like an ideal option for interested starter investors. I live in Chicago and it may be a struggle to find an affordable two or fourplex in a young neighborhood that I could envision myself living in.
look into having a job that covers the debt service or have a cosigner. Also look into having at least 6 months P&I in savings
Look into taking this to Bigger Pockets or anywhere else...
Thank you everyone for your help. I have also consulted BiggerPockets as well, they have many great free resources.
Career Transition to RE Dev. Opportunities Help (Originally Posted: 06/26/2013)
Hi everyone,
Been lurking around on this site for awhile and decided to get some of your feedback for finding the best way to get into real estate development.
I graduated in 2011 from the Univ of Southern California w/ a BS in BUAD (focus on global business) and am now close to completing a two year rotational program with an electrical distribution company where I have held rotations in every major business function (sales, operations, corp finance, marketing, project management, etc.) My primary focus has been on energy solutions (energy retrofits for hospitality/commerical, solar, motors, automation), and working with many property management companies for retrofit projects has led me to looking more into real estate. I have held several informational interviews and am currently taking a real estate principles class at UCLA. I believe RE development is what I am interested in pursuing.
My question is how do you think the best way to get in would be? I am currently in the final round for a real estate position at a franchise (about 300 locations and rapidly expanding) in which I would guide franchisees in the entire process from market and site analysis to lease negotiation to construction. While I think I would get good exposure to the entire process, this position is more of a liaison role but focused on supporting acquisitions.
Another opportunity I have is becoming a paid intern for 3-6 months as a Real Estate Valuation Services Intern at a larger firm that provides tax, valuation, financial advisory and related consulting services. I would be preparing CRE appraisal reports for southern CA and Las Vegas. I would gain experience with Argus, DCF valuation, etc. and assist with industry and market research, spreadsheet modeling, financial analysis and report writing.
What do you think would be the better option to go with?
Thanks in advance for the help!
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