Next job for fired MDs who didn't generate revenue?

budandgordon's picture
Rank: Orangutan | 331

There's been some talk about analysts/associates/VPs who can't/don't take the next step up the IB ladder... but what about MDs who get fired because they aren't bringing in enough revenue? What kind of jobs do these MDs transition to when they're told by their bank that they're no longer welcome?

Region: 
Global / All Content

Comments (65)

May 22, 2020

Interested

Array

May 22, 2020

Usually jump to being an MD at another bank. Can just lie and say that their old bank had zero deal flow. My boutique fires people regularly and this is what they say to get the next job. So much turnover but you find a job cuz you need peeps in IB, no?

I think you know what I am doing.

    • 2
    • 1
May 23, 2020

I've seen this happen several times too. The MD leaves the bank. Tells the next bank that they didn't have enough support or funding or balance sheet support or whatever. They go to the next bank, get paid a lot for a few years, again fail to bring in deal flow, and are then fired.

The real question is what do bad MDs after they've been fired twice?

May 23, 2020

Like others said, keep riding it out till youg ot enougth money

I think you know what I am doing.

  • Prospect in ER
May 23, 2020

Just interesting that a 45-50 year old guy gets another crack after being fired. I mean, I'm not saying that's a bad thing -- it's good for the MD, as I'm sure he/she can still add value. It just seems that, at that age, banks are looking for MDs who can bring in business, so it's surprising that they'd get another crack. But I guess if you can talk a good game and sell yourself, and your excuses, in an interview, not too surprising that experienced MD would get hired at new place for good amount of dough.

Most Helpful
May 23, 2020
Prospect in ER:

Just interesting that a 45-50 year old guy gets another crack after being fired. I mean, I'm not saying that's a bad thing -- it's good for the MD, as I'm sure he/she can still add value. It just seems that, at that age, banks are looking for MDs who can bring in business, so it's surprising that they'd get another crack. But I guess if you can talk a good game and sell yourself, and your excuses, in an interview, not too surprising that experienced MD would get hired at new place for good amount of dough.

For all the hype and hoopla and as hard as it is to get into this business on any side (buy, sell, IB, S&T, AM, whatever), once you are inside you see the number of people who are not only inept and don't produce, but get second, third and fourth chances.

A lot of people explain away failures (that's a real skill), others see the writing on the wall and move elsewhere before they get canned, some move teams, geographies or divisions, others decline promotions to MD (definitely see this in S&T - pay me top bucket and I won't gun for an MD seat is a pretty common bargain many strike, while the MD gets a loyal and hopefully somewhat productive ally who won't stab him in the back).

Others politic their way in and around to either survive, get promoted or get others fired (which saves them).

Plenty of really competent and high quality people get canned or lose their jobs. All the time. Sometimes it's their doing. Sometimes it's not and they are victims of a restructure, bad economy, bad year and/or politics.

That's the game and everyone should be well aware of it. There is a reason networking and relationships are so important in this business.

    • 9
May 22, 2020

But doesn't the "no deal flow" reason prove that you're an MD that doesn't generate revenue? And if that's your excuse, won't that make future firms less likely to hire you?

  • Intern in IB - Gen
May 22, 2020

That person is a troll account.

    • 3
May 22, 2020

I can prove I'm not a troll and at leaset I am not anon like oyrself

You could say that your firm doesn't have the brand name so you need a better brand name to get deals. If you know a firend, they can hook you up to...

I think you know what I am doing.

  • Analyst 1 in IB - Gen
May 22, 2020

I don't think he is a troll. I think he just has an IQ below 70.

    • 6
  • Intern in IB - Ind
May 22, 2020

They would fit right in at UBS

    • 3
    • 6
  • Analyst 1 in IB - Ind
May 23, 2020

Fuck off intern

    • 2
    • 3
  • Associate 1 in IB-M&A
May 23, 2020

And here we observe the 21 year old with 9 months of experience in the wild, asserting his dominance over the 20 year old - what a phenomenon.

    • 18
Funniest
  • VP in PE - LBOs
May 22, 2020

They start over again as analysts

    • 54
  • Intern in IB-M&A
May 23, 2020

like prestige in call of duty

    • 13
May 24, 2020

More like NG+ in dark souls.

May 24, 2020

Should have quicksaved

May 22, 2020

Move down market in banks or leave for a corporate job...CFO of Peloton was MD in Consumer at JPM. Granted she wasn't kicked out, but those are the kinds of jobs (maybe not straight to C-suite, but something high up) available with the credentials you've hopefully built at that point.

    • 1
May 22, 2020

Got it. But as you said, that's an example of a successful MD moving upstream. I'm thinking more of a guy on the downside of the hill -- did a good job working his way up but, once at the top, not pulling his weight as a rainmaker... gets kicked to the curb... now what?

Oh wait, you said move down market in banks... but wonder how easy is that if you're not bringing business with you?

May 23, 2020

This reminds me of a person I know. MD at Goldman 1.5 years -> MD at tier two bank 1 year -> Director of Commercial Development at F500. Good person but hasn't been able to generate substantial business.

May 23, 2020

"Director of Commercial Development" at F500 company -- so what is that guy supposed to do (meaning, exactly what are his responsibilities?)

May 22, 2020

To the glue factory

Array

    • 3
May 22, 2020

Many in fact struggle to find jobs at a comparable level with comparable pay, especially if fired from a lower-ranking bank

  • Intern in IB-M&A
May 22, 2020

Yep. Freaking scary. End of the run...

May 22, 2020

Gulag

    • 8
May 22, 2020

I've seen a few common exits. MDs commonly "trade down" there is frequently a move from BB to MM or regional boutique. Some folks leave to industry I've seen exits to a VP role, a buddy who was a director at a large commercial bank's securities arm left to a VP role at a publicly traded company, he's now an MD at a MM. Some retire if they've made enough, others try and make a run of it opening their own shop or consulting firm.

    • 4
  • Analyst 2 in IB - Ind
May 23, 2020

For an MD who got fired for not bringing in clients or generating revenue, I would assume it wouldn't be in his / her best interest to then go and start a shop that requires them to bring in clients haha

    • 3
May 23, 2020

Not necessarily. Bringing in Fortune 500 and public company clients is very different than selling $2M EBITDA companies to sponsor roll-ups.

You'd be surprised how often just wearing a suit and saying you were an MD at XXX BB gets you that mandate.

May 24, 2020

Sometimes it's as simple as not producing enough revenue, not producing zero. An MD in public finance said the expectation was that he bring in 1MM per banker on his team, so if he had an analyst, associate, VP and an SVP, he needed 5MM. Now I think he could keep his job if he were somewhat lower, but there's a lot of cost beyond just paying bankers' salaries. There's the compliance people, Bloomberg terminals and the like. If you can go solo as a municipal advisor, keep costs low and bring in $1.5MM with just an analyst and a secretary you'll be fine.

    • 2
May 23, 2020

I would imagine ultimately they reach their level of competence or incompetence. If they can't bring in deals (primary function of the job), they won't last in any position that requires them to bring in deals. May get a second or third chance by moving firms (generally lower tier, different market, etc.) but at the end of the day, they have to perform. Some probably make a career out of switching a few times and building up enough cash along the way to ultimately get out.

Although not in banking, had a SVP type running the sales channel for a major life carrier I rep for. He was wrapped right but only stayed for two years (that's about how long it takes for corp America to figure out you're full of BS). Turns out he had similar stints at several high end companies. The position paid approx $500k so he kept that going for probably 10 yrs at different places. Probably retired now.

    • 2
  • Prospect in ER
May 23, 2020

Yeah... almost like a hustle or a con, in some weird way.

May 23, 2020

Instagram influencers. That or TikTok superstars.

    • 1
    • 1
May 23, 2020

Trophy husband

    • 2
    • 1
May 23, 2020

DJ's

May 23, 2020

How long do MD's typically stay at one bank for?

May 23, 2020

Long enough to clearly see the writing on the walls.

May 23, 2020

Down market or setting their own shops or trying to wheel and deal or retire

  • Prospect in IB-M&A
May 23, 2020

They become Asim Qureshi

    • 1
May 23, 2020

In commercial banking this is like 90% of the people

May 24, 2020

90% of MDs in Commercial Banking get fired for not producing? Or 90% of people in Commercial Banking are people that couldn't make it in Investment Banking.

May 24, 2020

In a world of syndicated deals it's way easier to sell credit products. At most you'll have a handful of advisors in a M&A transaction, but in a syndicated facility you may have 20 banks.

May 24, 2020

For starters at a BB bank you're likely not going to make MD until you can prove you can bring in business as an ED.

That aside, if you're an MD at a BB there are TONS of exit opps. Most people are focusing on lateraling but going corporate is a lucrative path for many ex-bankers. Weather that's CFO, or running internal M&A/CorpDev, IR, etc.

May 24, 2020
ke18sb:

For starters at a BB bank you're likely not going to make MD until you can prove you can bring in business as an ED.

That aside, if you're an MD at a BB there are TONS of exit opps. Most people are focusing on lateraling but going corporate is a lucrative path for many ex-bankers. Weather that's CFO, or running internal M&A/CorpDev, IR, etc.

For MDs, taking a corporate job is almost always a paycut. And getting a CFO straight out of banking is quite rare as companies prefer those who also have corporate experience for the CFO job.

May 24, 2020
Comment