Non Target School (Cal Poly SLO), Almost Senior, No Internship
I've been lurking in WSO for a while now, and fully expect some seriously harsh criticisms. Basically the deal is that I'm pretty smart, but I've been lazy and unmotivated most my life. Most of the things I've been really passionate about are non-productive. I'm a Econ/Finance major and have a 3.48 GPA and I have no campus involvement. I have recently gotten into investing, and have realized (after much lurking on this forum) how seriously screwed my career prospects are with my current trajectory.
Thankfully, I think investing and stock trading is something that I've become seriously passionate about and find real satisfaction doing. With that passion comes motivation to un-screw myself which is something I've never had before. I'm willing to put in as much work as it takes, I just want to set myself up for the best shot into a HF analyst role that has a door into an increased stake in PnL from where I am now.
My current thinking is to get a math minor and kill it with my grades going forward so I can at least point to a really good track record finishing out college. The math minor would extend my college career by a year, and I'd use the time well so I might add a stats minor as well. I've heard that the "victory lap" can be dangerous, but I'm already non-target and these seem like pretty good reasons to stay another year. I've heard very mixed things about the time-worthiness of getting an MBA or Mfin.
I suppose this is unavoidably a "roastme" post, but I'd really like to know if this is something I can pull off, and the ideal path to do so. Is the math minor/stats minor a good idea? I plan to reach out to some alumni and join the investment club (even if it's online for a while). I'm willing to read good books and do extracurricular learning in (what I expect to be) my extremely limited free time.
Also, while I've read a lot about this stuff, payscales are still a bit confusing to me. It seems like equity research is less lucrative and is less about actively formulating strategies and trading ideas than hedge fund analyst positions. It also seems more focused on providing wallstreet clients with info if they are seeking it. To clarify, I'd want to avoid this type of equity research role.
Also, now that we are into summer, how should I approach getting a relevant internship ASAP? Maybe this summer is out of the question, but since school is online, I could cut my class load to get something during fall quarter. Maybe its too late for that too. I'm already seeing some applications pop up for next summer.
Yes, someone as motivated and in demand as yourself should not waste time on equity research. You should expect to take only the most lucrative trading jobs
I just have this visualization in my mind that you’re some 35 year old PM at Citadel slinging tech stocks and roasting kids on WSO once markets close lol
Pretty close. You would be surprised if I gave stats, so get the knowledge before I get bored of this site. I am in such a silo in terms the people that I have interacted with over the past couple months that I find the level of delusion super entertaining on this forum.
This rising senior in college at a terrible school with a mediocre GPA openly admitting that he has been 'unmotivated and lazy most of his life' - now wants to cram in math/stats/MBA/MFIN/Internships/Investment Clubs in his final year of college and get his dream hedge fund job, but is loathe to consider equity research because that is just not lucrative enough for him. How delusional and entitled can someone get? Is this really Gen Z? How is this individual ever going to work a normal job that his merits deserve?
Your profile won't even make to any front office role in IB even if you try very hard. Seriously, if you are passionate about investing, why not try coming up with some strategies and trade your own money? For one thing, you don't have to work at IB/HF in order to invest. If you are truly successful and have an amazing track record you might make some progress.
One way to proceed forward may be to look for a full-time non-investment position and then try to lateral/transfer closer to a P&L role from there. Some examples of Non-Investment positions are backoffice (operations), middle office, treasury, etc.
Reaching out to alumni is a good idea. It's unlikely you'll get an internship spot at this point - but you can always ask. Networking is important for sure if you want to get to the investment side of the business.
It's unlikely you'll be asked about your GPA after your first job.
I'm not sure staying an extra year or a doing a math minor will be helpful for getting an investment analyst role down the road.
"I'm pretty smart, but I've been lazy and unmotivated." Being lazy and unmotivated isn't smart. You sound like someone who grew up with their parents, family, and friends all saying how smart you were growing up because in elementary and middle school it wasn't too hard to do well in everything. But ultimately high school came, and maybe you put in less effort, or maybe you're not a good test taker and you ended up at a no-name school. But you're still really smart because everyone else struggles to do well but you get As and Bs and barely put in effort. Except, they're studying their asses off and getting 3.8+, while you're lazy and unmotivated and don't even have a 3.5.
The thing is, you could probably get away with all of that, if you put in the effort to try and find a career. If you padded your resume with internships, and you networked really hard you could break into somewhere within finance. But now you're a senior and it's too late. There are essentially two paths that will lead you to success right now.
The first path, you immediately start grinding like crazy, try and get an internship in the fall and in the spring somewhere within finance that you're interested in, or even if you're not interested but can't find anything else. I'm assuming you want to work for a HF considering you posted in this forum. Maybe find back office jobs at hedge funds. Once you're in, you can actively network with the people there. And even if that fund doesn't ever want to take you on, you can spin the experience as being scrappy and despite not being able to land a trading role out of college, you wound up at a HF, constantly spoke with the traders, they mentored you, etc. and then maybe you could lateral to a small HF that's willing to give you a chance. This path will require constant work and literally never giving up. You'll go through rejection after rejection, but this kind of drive and determination leads to success
The second path is getting the best job you can right now out of college, and then in a few years applying for an MBA. This is the easier and lazier path. No networking and constantly hustling for the next year, you just try your best and end up at the best place you can. The tough part will be killing the GMAT so you end up at a top tier MBA program. I don't know to what extent HFs recruit out of MBA programs, but from a top MBA program your options within finance will be a lot greater than they are now.
You're spot on with your assessment. Thank you for the advice. I looked at the breakdown of top MBA program graduates' employers, and hedge funds do seem to significantly recruit from these programs.
Give the guy a break. At least he has the awareness to realize he's been on the wrong track and needs to change. He is asking for help. No need to punch him while he's down.
Getting a HF job straight out of undergrad is near impossible even for guys that had their sht together in college. Chances are even slimmer for you. The best path for you to follow is to aim for an IB or equity research position upon graduating. Extending your college studies one year is a decent idea: it buys you time to re-enter the recruiting cycle and to network like crazy. What I would underlineis that the value of the math or statistics you learn is minimal; getting your minor is just a pretext. Of course aim for good grades, but do spend a ton of time networking trying to make up for the fact you are at a non-target. You wouldnt be the first person to land at a bulge bracket IB position from a non target. Whether this is thru family connections, sheer persistence, or some other way, is for you to figure out.
Some of us only got to the buyside in our 30s. Dont let anyone tell you it's too late because you're 21.
Many counts of people in the same shoes as you and have posted basically the same story here. And it’s usually the same advice: 1. start back/middle office and work/network your ass off 2. Go back to school from top program to get back in recruiting cycle
Maybe something here that’ll be useful if u haven’t checked: https://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forum/hedge-funds/top
Obviously, you’re seriously far behind where you need to be and at least you seem to know that. I think the extra year is a good idea but if you’re going to do it, you need to do it right. That means a lot of hard work, which means a real, durable change in your attitude. I don’t know if that’s possible for you, but you can at least try. You’re probably going to need close to a 4.0 your super-senior year to bring up the rest of your GPA to something respectable and to be able to show recruiters and interviewers that you’ve actually turned over a new leaf and aren’t lazy anymore. Further, you’re going to need to network your ass off over the summer and through that year. You’re probably not going to get a shot at a real bank or HF anytime soon, but if you spend some time this summer working on ideas, putting together interesting pitches and cold calling a bunch of smaller shops that might be willing to take a chance and bring you on unpaid then you might be able to get some experience under your belt. Since were all remote you may actually find some luck there. From there, you might have a shot at a small ER shop or some no name hedge fund and you can take it from there as you progress through your career. It’s a foot in the door and that’s all you can hope for at this point.
Be honest, did you trade a few Robinhood stocks and the thrill of making $1000 unlocked the serious passion burning within? Not kidding, I am genuinely curious how you came to the realization to un-screw yourself, few lazy people truly find that defining moment in life.
Regarding your path, I think a year wasted on math minor is totally irrelevant. Go shove your passion into the face of a local wealth or asset manager who will take a chance on you once he sees how hungry you are. Converting real life experiences and learning how the real world works in non-Robinhood finance is how you will get to the path that you are envisioning.
You have plenty of time so don't listen to that grumpy boomer Rottenstiltskin, he's a macro PM who think he has the touch of God because he trades global interest rates when the entire world suffers from dovish groupthink to a fault.
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