Hey guys - I went to a small, non target school originally to play a Division 1 sport. Decent experience, decent school, but noticed that this may hinder me in the bigger markets. I am curious to hear who is out there from other small, non target schols working in CRE in big markets (NYC, Chicago, etc.) Let me know where you guys went to school, how you landed your CRE job, what your job is, and how you got around the hurdles of the common questions of "What target school did you go to?" etc.
Thanks guys - curious about this and who else is out there trying to or doing the same thing I am.
interested in this as well
University of Hawaii (great undergrad business school btw). I work in a big market. Be very good at your job (faster, learn from mistakes, take good notes, model better, write better). Work harder than anyone else. Help other people when you can, always follow through, people will send more smart people to you to help, repeat. Commit to this industry and over the years you’ll have a network. Have vision and learn to communicate it both in words and on a spreadsheet. Hustle. Persevere (if you believe in the deal, never give up until it is ripped from your arms away). Don’t stress out, big problems can be solved by figuring out smaller propblems. Manage emotions, stay calm. Bring something new to the team. Think different. It’s ok to be different, long term. Read. If you work in a company, find your role, but change is constant. Get along with difficult people. Have big dreams.
Yes luck helps a lot especially when getting that first statement job. Let’s just say I stood out during interviews because just by chance someone from Hawaii helped the hiring manager long ago and so I got a second look. The world is small. You being you bring your unique background to the big stage.
How did I find the job? By meeting folks and searching the internet which led me to a lesser known real estate networking group (prob doesn’t exist anymore) in my city that had a small job listing. One night after coming home from work around midnight, I saw the posting. Applied around 2am.
I think the whole “target” school thing has gotten more prevalent than a decade ago, so that sucks. I mentioned in other posts to really get to know your market. I love geography. I walked everywhere, in the nice and not nice parts of town. You can gain advantage by learning a lot about the “Big Market” city you live in. You’d know more about your primary Market than some “target” school person flying in for an interview. That’s maybe something you can do. Then, start creating a investment thesis on why real estate is undervalued, or there is a higher and best use. Always always look at the risks. Always always think about economic cycles (makes you seem wiser). It’s ok to be “eager beaver” “values will always go up” but that makes you seem inexperienced.
Real estate is cool because in most times, there is more money out there than there are great deals. So find the great deals young man/woman. Then, hire me.
Leveraging high GPA/GMAT from non-target for success in CRE (Originally Posted: 09/05/2012)
I definitely didn't go to an Ivy; I went to a (think top 40-60 national) and had a pretty damn high GPA. It seems that on the job market, name brand of your undergrad matters a lot more than how well you did in the program
I'm also lucky in that I can score high on standardized tests (to be humble -- I don't think that's a definitive test of one's intelligence, but that's another discussion). I've taken both GRE and gmat practice tests and been able to crush it on those.
Part of me thought I would go back to school after a year or two after of being out of undergrad. Problem is, I don't know what the hell kind of program is a good investment. Elite MBA seems out of reach. MSRE or MS in Fin seem so damn expensive... Can they be worth it if your dream job is to work in REPE acquisitions?
Honestly, this is just for a piece of paper... I have 2 books (1 by Linneman and 1 by Geltner), and that in addition to free resources such as MIT Opencourseware and just Google offers enough information that in many areas, I would bet that it approaches the frontier of what can be learned about CRE finance/economics in any program.
Any ideas? Just trying to jumpstart my career. Still young and perhaps making this kind of investment can pay dividends for decades
You already have a decent job as far as potentially transitioning over to an analyst role at a real estate company. Have you been networking like everyone here has been telling you to?
Things are still slow so don't expect it to fall in your lap right away.
REPE can be impossible to break into without real estate or i-banking background. One degree you may want to conisder is a MS in real estate and concentrate in investment activity. I think NYU is tops...
Agree with Summa. Those backgrounds are key to getting into REPE but a MS in real estate should certainly help the transition. Also helpful if you could move into an analyst role.
Thanks everyone. I have been networking -- not as much as I'd like but I've contacted around 50-100 people in the last several months. Maybe 5-10 of those had courtesy to respond, and I've been able to convince a few of those that did respond to meet me for coffee or lunch. At that point, I've gotten my hands on some pretty good feedback and it seems that once they meet me they've brought up the possibility of job offers but it's completely way up in the air right now.
Right now I just want to make sure I'm on the right "trajectory" and making the right decisions on what road to take to my end goals. I have literally no connections to anybody in RE other than my alumni network, and it can be so hard to know what's valued by the market without having just the opportunity of asking people.
I think this is one of those situations where it’s not about quantity per se, but quality. Real Estate guys are not in this game for the prestige, we are in it bc we love the game and are awaiting our next large return so we can get a boat full of strippers for next summer. Most professionals will admire the fact that you had the balls to reach out- but that’s only for 5 seconds, and then they will check their other 100 emails sitting in their inbox and forget about you...
I sat down with an older professional a couple of years ago in hopes of gaining some industry insight before graduating and he told me if you want a job - call the same guy every other day for 2 months and eventually he will hear you out. Eventually, whoever it is that you are seeking a position/knowledge/reference from, will understand that you have the passion and work ethic to take on rejection face first, which is a rare trait these days.
I'm not sure of your work histroy or background, but I wouldnt be discouraged by the amount of REIB on here who claim thats the only way into REPE b/c its not. Is it the best route - yes, by far. Are there a shit ton of other people who knew they wanted in this sector and set long term goals and made several lateral career shifts through financial and re world - of course, but not many.
You should probably bite the bullet and go to grad school. Find a state school in a region that has jobs and a strong mba or msre program, establish residency while working, and graduate and slide into an associate role. Region is key - no one in Texas gives a shit if you went to John Hopkins (no offense to you DC guys), the candidate from UT or Texas A&M will likely take the job over the outsider 9 times out of 10 – mainly b/c of the regional reputation.
that's great advice, when i was an undergrad reaching out to alumni i had a guy tell me this same thing. in fact, he told me "i don't have a job for you right now, and haven't heard of any but call me once every single week to check in and see if things have changed." Obviously you'll have to feel out each person to see what they'll put up with, but this is the best way to stay fresh on someones mind.
upp
bump
Are you living in a NYC/Chicago market right now or looking to move to one?
I am in a smaller submarket in NY state - looking to relocate to NYC
Real estate can be very nepotistic in entry level roles, it’s not rocket science and for every posting there are multiple qualified applicants. Luckily for us, it becomes more meritocratic the higher up you get. Im not familiar with the NYC dynamic but I don’t doubt competing with target applicants is tough. If you have the money, consider attending NYU or Columbia’s Masters programs for the name brand. If you have the time, get some experience in your local market and leverage it, which is what I did. I came from a west Texas town and recently landed a corporate banking job in Denver with a cre Group. I attended the complete opposite of a target school. I spent two years as a credit analyst with a community bank in the hometown, learned the fundamentals of real estate and modeling, and then applied for jobs in other markets; I was able to put together a hypothetical loan package that I sent with my resume, which set me apart from other applicants. I was told I beat out people with masters degrees and UGs from target east coast schools. I’m sure you could do the same. I’m not sure what kind of grades you got in UG but the combination of experience and a MSRE would be your best bet for breaking into NYC. You may have to find stepping stone jobs to ultimately get to where you want to be. If you’re looking for “South Dakota State to Tishman Analyst” stories, they are going to be few and far between.
At the end of the day, it’s a numbers game. Apply to as many jobs as you possibly can and talk to as many people as you can (one of the recent RE forums discusses the best way to cold email people). If you’re applying on the internet, try and catch openings within the first 24 hours of posting. Once you apply, scowl the website and linked until you find someone on the hiring team and email them to follow up with your resume. Since there are so many applicants and people hate hiring, most people settle on the first qualified l, normal, and ambitious applicant they find.
Lastly, I realize Denver isn’t on the same level as NYC, but I believe the stepping stone logic still applies. You just might have an additonal stone to step before you get where You want to be but it’s definitely possible.
I appreciate that post a lot. I had a 3.72 GPA and have some REPE and IB (Equity Research) internships on my resume. I do agree that I need to add something to set me apart - but for an acquistions or debt/equity analyst position, what would be my best bet to add to my application?? I have been trying to link up LinkedIn connections for the jobs ive applied for as well as look up new jobs every morning to get my foot in the door immediately.
Yes I am currently working for a developer in this submarket and would ideally like to stay on the buy side of things if possible.
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