Can I get into investment banking from non target school?

I will be attending UW-oshkosh this fall, and want to get into investment banking. I realize that Oshkosh is not a target school, so I was wondering how I can't get into IB still. I read that if I graduate from Oshkosh, work 2-3 years, then go get and MBA at a target school, I can get a job as an associate. Is that true? and where would I have to work for those 2-3 years. Also are there investment banking jobs in Wisconsin? and are those less competitive then New York jobs? I just feel stuck because I didn't try in high school, so couldn't get into a target school, and now it seems like my chances are very slim of getting into IB. If anyone with experience or knowledge on this can help me out that'd be great.

 

According to some earlier post I found, think:

Tier 1A Claremont McKenna, Vanderbilt, WUSTL, Virginia

A majority of my peers are international students. It has been difficult for them to find placements. American students do well assuming they know how to interview/network.

 

Thanks. Program is pretty rigorous, especially the first semester when you're balancing the coursework alongside the recruiting process. Every class you're in has a mix of MBA (graded pass/fail) and MSF's (graded on GPA scale) so that makes for an interesting dynamic. MSF's are working 4-5x as hard as MBA's IMO. Definitely like drinking from a firehose the first 5-6 months.

 

What MSF program was it? If you aren't comfortable telling us the school, can you at least give us an indication of similar programs to the one you attended?

Use more debt than your competition or get out of the business. Any other policy is either self-limiting, no-win, or a bet that the competition will go bankrupt before they displace you. - Bruce Henderson
 

So when I have nothing better to do, I enjoy trying to track down these success stories. I usually never mention anything when I get a hit, but this one I have to call out b/c I'm an alumnus of the school. I have a contact at the school and (s)he confirmed with me that this guy did not get BB, nor did he get IBD. He got non-IBD at an arguably soft MM bank (in the Midwest). My contact was also concerned that this guy was making public posts that were blatantly false that could so easily be traced back to the school.

I say all of this because I hope those of you still in undergrad (or out of undergrad for that matter) realize how easily you can **ck up your reputation by one narcissistic post on an internet forum. It will be interesting to hear if any of this gets back to his future employer or the school. I out this guy because finance, especially IB, is built upon trust and respect and if you can't even cultivate those attributes anonymously on the internet then IMO your veil deserves to be pulled away.

For those of you who think I am possibly just trolling, look up the characteristics he mentioned on LinkedIn. He literally mentions the company's he has worked for and the school he goes to - all in the midwest (hint: worked on the shores of Lake Michigan, went to undergrad where the hawks have eyes and are black/gold, grad school along the Mississippi river). Thats how I found him. Per WSO user guidelines, I can't actually link his profile, but its easy enough to find. Just watch it over the next couple months and see if I am right.

 

Cheers to you my friend. You put your mind to it and received exactly what you put in.

People on this site drive me insane sometimes - telling stories of how impossible the transition is / how you need to go to XYZ University to be even remotely considered... That is just absolutely absurd! Hard work, possessing an interest to learn, common sense, a TON of networking, and having a hard enough head to keep swinging until you land one is all that is required!

I went to a non-target state school and didn't know what investment banking was until my senior year of college. I realized quickly that it was exactly where I needed to be. So I worked at it - networking, reading, and surrounding myself in the industry. Boom, a year later I stick it to the man and land a job that I would have never dreamed of.

Buck, you just get it. Congrats to you my friend. Keep up the crushing.

 

Congrats, sounds well-deserved. I hope that the position is all you desired and more. Your story is a bit of an inspiration for me; I'm currently debating whether to go to NYU for my MBA (admitted for the fall full-time) to career switch into equity research from a non-finance background (policy analysis and compliance). Given your experience, would you recommend MFE/MSF programs over the MBA for this? I face a similar situation to you in that I have a comfortable, well-paying job now, so it would entail opportunity cost and risk for sure. What specific hustle and networking strategies did you find most helpful? Reaching out to alumni? Faculty connections? Just cold reaching out to target firms?

 

You need to do at least one internship (preferably two) before anyone will think about hiring you as an analyst. As for studying IB skills, you do not really need to do that unless you like learning thing twice, because they will train you about all that stuff when you do the internship. The main reason they say that you must do an internship is because they do not want to have to train you on those basic things when you start as a first-year analyst. As for recruiting, you can go to the companies' sites and apply there, but I would say networking is the best way. Networking can include things like information sessions with bankers, superdays, etc. As far as linkedin, you can follow banks such as Piper Jaffray, Goldman Sachs, JPMorgan, and so on. But alumni from your school is a really good source. get connected with them because they have personal connections with the banks that you want to apply to and this can give you an advantage.

Array
 

There is a page called searching for a summer internship under the IB forum on WSO. Search for it because it has the names of many banks ranging from bulge-brackets to boutiques. You can use this list and search the names in that list on linkedin and follow them. This will allow them to notify you when openings come up. Also, there is a site called Mergers and Inquisitions that has many good articles on getting hired and the like. That being said, let me know if you have any other questions, and good luck!

Array
 

More information on your Major/prior internships would be helpful.

At this stage in the game, it's going to be a huge uphill battle to land IB post grad. Staying at school for another 2 quarters is definitely helpful so that way you can qualify for 2018 summer internships, but most everywhere is done recruiting for that already. Your best bet would be to look at very small/no-name boutiques with alumni you can network with. Good luck

EDIT: forgot to address the part on how to actually connect with people on LinkedIn... usually the best strategy for that would be to find them through LinkedIn (using their search feature w/ school designation) and then emailing them directly at their work email address (pretty much every companies format could be found online - ie [email protected]). Much more effective than depending on LinkedIn messages only with the hope they actually respond.

 

It normally sits within ECM/DCM with DCM doing most derivs and ECM doing equity derivs. Typically team names will be something like "Strategic Equity Derivatives" or "Corporate Equity Derivatives" on the equity side and "Corporate Risk Solutions" on the debt side. I don't think they do a lot of work with governments, there's no need for any of that stuff to be done on the private side, with the exception of EQD hedging of remaining stakes in privatisations etc.

Don't know much about the US recruiting process unfortunately. In Europe, they either recruit separately (rarely) or from within the S&T pool. Usually the IBD skillset is not that compatible with the team so it might not be the best way in.

A lot of corporate clients are covered out of S&T as well, so you're probably better off looking there than at IBD if in terms of interests that's what you want to go for.

 

All of the banks do. You have to be a top student.

"Look, you're my best friend, so don't take this the wrong way. In twenty years, if you're still livin' here, comin' over to my house to watch the Patriots games, still workin' construction, I'll fuckin' kill you. That's not a threat, that's a fact.
 

Yes, you can definitely get a position at a bulge or top boutique coming from a non-target (though bulges are easier b/c they take more people on as analysts). You may need to network harder to get your resume in front of someone but a top candidate is a top candidate.

Also, many top liberal arts schools are non-targets but banks regularly hire people from those places. At the end of the day, it's just much easier for a bank to spend its time recruiting at a larger school like Cornell where hundreds of kids are interested in banking than to go look for the ten kids (not an exact number) at Swarthmore who are interested.

 

All banks will take some non-target candidates. To break in though, you need to be a stand-out, either on paper (academically, extracurriculars, or stacked experience) or in person by networking like a legend. At my GS superday there was a girl from Manhattan College, I live in the city and literally hadn't heard of it, and I know some kids in the year ahead of me had kids from outside semi-targets and non-targets in their analyst class as well. Anything is possible.

I am permanently behind on PMs, it's not personal.
 

Ok that is good to hear thanks for the info. I currently have a job in accounting but want to try to have some investment banking experience before I go back to school for my MBA. Will 2 years of work experience kill my chances for an entry level analyst posistion? I start working at the company in the fall and plan on trying to work in their M&A and business valuation department if this makes any difference.

 

Networking will make the difference, but I would do it fast. More work experience will make it even harder to come in as an analyst.

Even with 2 years work exp, you will need to look mostly at boutiques. Most BBs have very limited opportunities outside of their standard recruiting process.

At lesser BBs, you could potentially get in as a lateral hire with a strong contact and killer interview. Unfortunately, most GS/MS/etc. lateral hires will be people from banks a tier down looking to move up, and even transaction services won't let you compete with people who have actual banking experience.

 

Yea I would be happy to work for a boutique I would like any banking experience before I go to business school "hopefully Wharton" so this way I have a better chance for an associate posistion in a BB after getting my MBA

 

Kid from complete nontarget with a chance at MM/BB here.

There is almost nothing harder than breaking into a NYC BB from a nontarget assuming you have no resources and have to do it from scratch. Start your freshman year with all knowledge and help? Doable.

I have had 1 day of free time in the last 2-3 years. Everything else is a constant grind. Wake up at 6AM every day, and if I am lucky I get to bed by 10PM (I am not very lucky). Those 16 hours? 90-100% of that is work... every single day. And you know what happens when I try to have fun? The gnawing thought of having to do homework and then if projects I could be doing. Kills anything. No matter how hard I work I will always be behind the kid who got went to a target school and has never known what it is like to work and go to school. He got a freshman internship at a firm that won't even look at my school.

On the other hand I worked up to 13 miles in 3-4 weeks from never running at all.

Let me hear you say, this shit is bananas, B-A-N-A-N-A-S!
 

Breaking into IB is much harder. The difference is: you run a marathon for yourself (just have to complete it) and in IB, you have to convince other people that you can run the marathon (kiss ass, are competent, responsible, etc.). Persuading other people, while there are much more attractive candidates is the hardest thing you can possibly do, imo.

 

Breaking into IBD is most definitely harder. To break into IBD you have to have at least two of these to get an interview, if you miss two, than you have no chance. 1.Went to Target 2.Fantastic Grades 3.Networked you ass off

ALSO you have to have been planning this since about sophomore or junior year. You can run a marathon at any point in your life.

 

You will have a better chance of landing a full time IB offer by bolstering your resume now with internships, participating in the school's investment management club, etc. and networking than running straight into a sub par masters program with no work experience.

If you have a good GPA and school involvement a MM or boutique bank internship will not be too far out of reach (still will require a lot of work) which will most likely turn into a full time offer or can be later leveraged into an offer at a more desirable bank later on. Depending on what year you are in school (if a freshmen or sophomore) your sole focus should be on landing internships, in my opinion.

You miss 100% of the shots you don't take
 

It is quite a bit late for the recruiting in my opinion, not to say that it's impossible, but it's just a late. Most BB's and EB's (from what I've heard/read/seen) start recruiting for summer junior year around December - May the year before.

If you've exhausted your options in terms of BB's and EB's I would look into other regional banks and firms. There's plenty of them out there and your experience would definitely get notice. Along with that keep in mind that it's not just BB's and EB's that get full time offers. You'll read across this website, plenty of stories of people breaking into IBD with diverse backgrounds and different experience. Don't count yourself out, but work hard on networking.

Best of luck

 

You should be fine, don't overthink it. Keep reaching out to boutiques & MM IBs, add associates and analysts on linkedin (or just email) and PM them asking to meet and learn about the firm. A common mistake is asking them to push along your resume, my advice (take it with a grain of salt if you want) is do NOT do this. Learn what you can, talk about non-IB things (not everyone working 90+ hours a week wants to discuss banking further in their free time), and try come across as a motivated and driven individual. Keep reaching out multiple times (Up to 3-4, waiting 2 weeks in between each message/email), always be polite and respectful, and just keep at it. I come from a non-target with a similar GPA and it took reaching out to 50+ firms before I found my PE internship, and i reached out to 75+ guys on linked in. To be fair, a lot (40+) of guys from my non-target break into IB, so I had a pretty high response rate on linkedin. In the end, my personal cover letter and ambition (not my networking abilities) got me the position, but this is relatively rare. You have great experience, a good GPA, and you just need to keep trying.

 

Ah dear :)

I wanted to bump an article I wrote many years ago to see if it would be of help to folks. Truthfully, I wouldn't express the commentary of the above in the same language (frankly the writing comes across as a bit overzealous and a bit over the top, ha), but I think most of the above is still applicable in all respects.

There's a closer meaning to my user name. Try reading it quickly. Perhaps you will then understand ;P
 

To be honest, I'd try to crush it your first year and transfer to Chapel Hill. Charlotte banks love Chapel Hill grads and I can't say I've seen a ton of UNC-C resumes pop up on team pages.

MM IB -> Corporate Development -> Strategic Finance
 

By the time he gets around to applying for MBAs, the schools outside the top 7-10 will be so obsolete that they'll probably be taking just about anyone who applies. But then again, it won't even really be that helpful since it will be obsolete.

 

For your freshman year you should focus on getting good grades, getting involved in one social organization and one professional organization (try to get a leadership posotion), and start trying to find an internship which is applicable to what you want to do in the future.

The good grades will help for future requirements, the social and professional organizations will help serve as resume fillers, and the internship will help you figure out if you actually want to do something as a career.

 

Walk over to the finance dept and see if there is an investment banking group.

I got my interviews by literally walking over to the finance department and sending my resume with similar credentials to the alumni group. That's the easiest way. I was also at a complete non-target. There were 8-12 of us total I believe that were trying to break in in the total >30k person school.

 

Unfortunately, the University of Tennessee is a non-target, so you're going to have to network pretty hard to get interviews. I typed up a networking overview a week ago that you might find helpful.

I would also see if there are any boutique IBs close to where you are and try to get an internship during the school year to get some relevant experience under your belt. Good luck.

 

Nothing wrong with that-- I got waitlisted at Dickinson and Muhlenberg, between you and me, though I've never really been a good student. The thing about small LACs is that you always have to explain yourself to laypeople. Sometimes I wished I could just carry around the US News rankings, so I could be like "It's number 29, look!" Point: Use your alumni network in light of the weaker college brand name.

Try planting the IB & relo seeds early on in your internship, so that when are you given a return offer, your goals are well-established. They're both unlikely opportunities, but you should still shoot your shot. Otherwise, I think a CFA or MBA would be required to make the move to IB.

 

I know these aren't in order, but the GPA and the Brand Names should be switched in importance. You can network with a 3.9 GPA and if you don't have ANYTHING which stands out, it gets EVEN harder to network and land that job. A brand name such as American Airlines/Kohls/(you get the point) at least allow them to give you a subconscious "nod" towards some recognition.

"It is better to have a friendship based on business, than a business based on friendship." - Rockefeller. "Live fast, die hard. Leave a good looking body." - Navy SEAL
 

Baruch is a solid place to go. It has strong placement across all the BB, and It's in the middle of Manhattan which puts you at an advantage from a networking perspective. Also consider, Villanova, UVA, UNC Chapel Hill, Williams College and Amherst. They have strong placement on the street

When luck shuts the door you gotta come in through the window - Doyle Brunson
 

agreed. I like to say im a student at Baruch and theres strong placement as of now. Before that wasn't the case a couple years back. Just like in NYU, you have to reach out to fellow bankers on linkedin, alumni base, etc. That's what I am doing rather than just applying like everyone else. Goodluck and I hope you make the best decision for you. Btw is half the cost of Columbia and NYU. To each his own. There are a few target kids that disagree.

upod01:

Baruch is a solid place to go. It has strong placement across all the BB, and It's in the middle of Manhattan which puts you at an advantage from a networking perspective. Also consider, Villanova, UVA, UNC Chapel Hill, Williams College and Amherst. They have strong placement on the street

 
upod01:

Baruch is a solid place to go. It has strong placement across all the BB, and It's in the middle of Manhattan which puts you at an advantage from a networking perspective. Also consider, Villanova, UVA, UNC Chapel Hill, Williams College and Amherst. They have strong placement on the street

Not sure I follow this. If they can't get into Columbia, what makes you think Williams or Amherst are any easier.

 

I was in the same situation as you coming out of high school, ended up transferring to my states top public school (Umich, Virginia, Berkeley) and am currently a junior majoring in econ. Transferring is really common at large states school like the ones mentioned. If you want specifics you can pm me.

 

Second this. Go to the best school you can get into and plan on transferring from day one by keeping your grades perfect and getting involved in some cool activities. You may end up changing your mind and deciding there's no need to transfer but if you do those things, it will be very achievable to get into a public target like those mentioned above.

 

Guaranteed that no IB firm is going to hire you since you're unable to use the god damn search button. If you can't use the search button how do I know I could trust you with the imperative detail oriented nature of making sure my coffee only has 2 sugars and one cream.

"It is better to have a friendship based on business, than a business based on friendship." - Rockefeller. "Live fast, die hard. Leave a good looking body." - Navy SEAL
 

I'm going to assume you're a junior wherever you go. I also come from a non target, just went through the grueling recruiting process, and ended up getting an offer from a top MM bank. At one point I thought I was fucked so no matter what you do don't give up.

A lot of banks' recruiting process is over, but not all. So two things: 1. Get a huge list of investment banks that haven't started recruiting or just starting. Then email as many people as you can until you get a hit. Doesn't matter if the bank is a small boutique in Boston or Florida. At this point you just want to have that IB experience on your resume then try to leverage that into a full time recruiting later. 2. Email banks that are "finished" and acknowledge the fact they are done but if they somehow weren't able to fill spots you would love an opportunity.

Develop an extremely strong story and make it clear how bad you want this. At this point its okay to sound a little desperate. Say you will do whatever it takes to have the chance to interview. Spend a lot of time finding any bank (seriously any) and send a shit ton of emails. Really try to use any type of alumni. Exhaust all resources. If you have little alumni then they should understand the process you are going through. If not, find someone who is similar to you. Nontarget, speaks Spanish for example, etc. Best of luck.

 

Thanks! It helps to know that when you're feeling hopeless something can pop up like that. As far as job seeking goes, did you apply through OCM? If you did not, do you know any other sites that post jobs? I'm currently looking at Indeed and GlassDoor for IB's that post for SA.

 

As someone who recently went through recruiting from a non-target (and observed dozens of my peers do the same) here is my advice:

  • Prepare adequate responses to the following questions before you start networking: (1) Why do you want to do investment banking? (2) Tell me about yourself. You're going to be asked these questions incessantly if you're doing

  • Have a polished resume. Typos, spelling mistakes, and terrible formatting are easy ways to end up in a discard pile.

  • Network. Start now! If you're coming from a non-target this is the most important part. Start networking with alumni ASAP, but don't be pushy. Reaching out already implies you are interested in an internship (same applies to non-alum). There are many good guides on how to network on this site.

  • Make two lists (one for networking and another for applications). Keep track of who you are networking with, where they work, when you speak with them, and whatever else you think will be useful. Make a list of every bank you intend on applying. Once applications open up, it can be a little hard to keep track.

 

Taking a quick glance:

  1. Remove the periods (full stops), the "/4.0", Macro and Micro eco from your relevant coursework (since you've got ample other coursework to list), and fix your section title underlines - the last section looks like it has a different underline

  2. Remove the sub, sub bullet points - it is fine to separate project experience from normal responsibilities (I recommend it), but you don't need some many bullet points - combine the sub with the sub, sub to create a complete bullet point.

  3. Additionally, if your most recent work experience, that project experience does not need to be there since you are talking about tasks you've perfomed, not actual projects as you have in your 2nd experience - although even those experience aren't technically deals and can be trimmed down further - I see where you're going. In short, you don't need sub bullet points for your most recent experience and you don't need a sub bullet point for your last bullet in your 2nd experience.

  4. You need to rework your bullet points - they are too brief at points - you are glossing over details to throw phrasing around - how did you/what metrics did you use to value Time Warner, for example, how did you convince a group to show interest and what group?

  5. Your second experience sounds a bit weird - perhaps since part of it is blocked out - you are a partner in an IB special situations group - you might need to expand on that a bit

  6. Work on your verbs and bullet structure overall - you can use verbs with more of an impact and not reuse verbs - especially one after the other.

 

The underlines should all be the same, I just copied and pasted this from M&I and filled in the rest. Also, can you give me an example or two of the verbs I should work on? This'll give me a better idea of what you're thinking.

Thanks again, I really appreciate it.

 

Don't put things on which haven't happened yet. Otherwise, I stand by what HFFBALLfan123 said - for any other experiences you might have.

[quote]The HBS guys have MAD SWAGGER. They frequently wear their class jackets to boston bars, strutting and acting like they own the joint. They just ooze success, confidence, swagger, basically attributes of alpha males.[/quote]
 

Not trying to be pessimistic but I would highly suggest going into technology/Software engineering instead simply because it does seem like it is rather late. I also don't see the religious and IB thing working out down the line either.

If you have a good technical background and know structured languages and data structures, then you can find a job easy. In terms of finance, other opportunities like becoming a financial analyst or going into Asset Management may present itself in the future, but sounds like you dont have much related to your field on your resume.

 

You could start an investment banking organization, and run a course in it.

That would look fantastic on resumes. You could get something IB related for next summer (or just IB period), and then look for FT IB in your senior year.

People who I've seen found IB student organizations have mostly all gone to BBs for IB and many of them from non-targs.

That would be a good choice to bolster your chances.

 

Absolutely: just did it myself from a lesser known (IB standards) state school in the Midwest.

Game Plan: Get good grades, become involved in a couple organizations on campus (progress up the ranks), network like crazy (alumni, fraternity brothers, others from Midwest state schools, high school alumni, etc.), get internships prior to junior year (finance or markets related are ideal). That should get you a good amount of interviews. What you do with them is up to you at that point.

 

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