NY EB Activism Defense vs HK Top-tier BB IBD
Title says it all. Two offers - one is at a GS/MS/JPM IBD in Hong Kong, and the other is Shareholder Activism Defense at a top EB (PJT/EVR/Lazard).
Very long term goal is to be an activist investor. Leaning towards being in Asia in the long term but want to gain some experience in the US. Non-US citizen, so visa sponsorship is an issue.
I think Activism Defense would give me good people, work-life balance, and a chance to do something I feel passionate about. But the lack of technical work is very concerning since I do want to spend some time in the buy side.
The BB IBD offer would be the traditional route, and I might get stuck in HK but that's ok in terms of lifestyle. I am concerned though that IB >> PE/HF is much harder in HK than it is in the US.
Both are SA offers, so FT recruiting is another variable. Ideally would want to land a US IBD role for FT, and I've heard mixed opinions about which option would be better for that.
Any advice/help would be appreciated!
If the asian offer is from MS, I’d take it.
Logic is, 2-3yrs of traditional IB experience you gets, especially technical exp and network (considering you're thinking of going back to Asia someday) is valuable resources.
I think knowledge and skillsets you will get at shareholder advisory group is something you can learn on your own, probably less in depth tho. Whereas IB skill you will learn at HK is only available for that 2-3years unless you're keen to come back to IB after MBA.
Also, you will still need IB skills as a buy side activist investors, and you can still get looks from headhunters for activist roles coming out from IB.
I have seen many cases of going activist role from traditional IB and not that many from pure shareholder advisory role. It's probably because the program is relatively new but it is what it is.
These are just my 2c, so ask your friends, mentors and hope you find what's best for you
went through similar process a few years ago. you can't really go wrong with either, but would strongly advise you to pick the EB offer. below are my two cents.
1. IB experience in HK is not what you think, neither is the buyside recruiting.
conventionally speaking two years in IB give you the fundamentals, but that's based on the assumption that you get to experience different types of deals (more specifically complex shits like m&a, lbo, rx, etc) and you get to do the modeling. Investment banking in asia, no matter what bank or group you are at, is mostly about doing grunt work till 2 am and executing IPOs like there is no tomorrow. You have to do a lot of random research and build boring decks just for your MD or client's learning purpose. If you are at a relevant group at MS, you can probably expect to do a dozen of ipos within just 2 months or so.
However, if you still can exit at the end of the day, then this probably doesn't really matter. But the thing is that there's no structured buyside recruiting in asia. Do a simple Linkedin research you will find that it is not automatic "2 and out" here in hk. Even if you a top analyst from a top TMT group, you are not guaranteed with a mega fund buyside offer in 2 years.
2. HK is a one-way street
Once you are committed to HK, there's no going back. Given the fact that NY experience is almost on the verge of extinction for intl students who need sponsorship, you should seriously consider the opportunity to work for an EB even if it's for the experience itself, and not to say you want to try FT later on. On the other hand, you have some more flexibility starting from NY. If you end up not liking activism defense, just lateral to general IB or even capital markets. If you feel like wanting to come back to asia, everything is less structured here, and you can always find ways to come back with an NY EB name on your resume. Plus, EB gives you better MBA exit, which serves apac's "brand name fetish" in the long-term.
3. You are actually passionate about active investing
This is probably the most important factor in your case. Active investing/shareholder defense/the necessary legal framework is barely developed (pretty much non-existent tbh) in hk/china. A shareholder voting might take, say, 90 days in the U.S. In China, sometimes all it needs is a call from the big gun. Don't expect to play the Ackman or Singer tricks with asian companies too soon. If you are actually passionate about active investing, go to an actual activism defense group in a sophisticated market and learn you stuffs.
That said, there is really no wrong choice here. A top bb in hk will suit you for everything you want to do in finance in asia. But in your case, I think the opportunity cost of not taking the EB is really high.
Second this. Best response seen in a while
As someone who just finished SA at a top HK BB, can second the first comment. You rarely see M&As there, mostly IPOs.
Bump - I have the same problem
Best to think about this from the perspective of where you will end up. Here are a few points to consider (I've networked with a few shareholder advisory guys before starting M&A):
- Moving from shareholder advisory to 'traditional' IB is not that easy. As mentioned above, you learn few modelling and hard skills in shareholder advisory which makes it harder to transition. It may be easier if you stay within the same firm, but then that's extra years on the sell-side before going to buy side (shareholder advisory analyst -> M&A senior analyst / associate -> buy-side)
- Do you care about which region you ultimately end up living in? Or do you just care about which region is 'easier' to get into buy-side? While buy-side recruiting is less structured in Asia, buyside recruiting in the US is very very tough right now (I'd go as far as to say borderline impossible) as an international due to work authorization issues (we'll see who wins the election...)
- Are you very interested in activism investing? As mentioned above, activism investing is largely nonexistent in Asia right now and for the foreseeable future. Another perspective is that, contrary to what you might think, activism buy-side funds still prefer traditional IB analysts over shareholder advisory analysts due to their hard skills. Shareholder advisory does not make your profile as relevant to activism investing as modelling / analytical forte. I've seen shareholder advisory guys exit more towards IR roles instead
- Personal 2 cents, Asia and US have very different work cultures. If you enjoy one, you are likely to not enjoy / be used to the other. Even if you are confident in your adaptation skills, the adaption process still easily affects your work performance during your first few years, which impacts your reputation in the group and exit opps
- Overall, I'd say you'll have a more straightforward, albeit different, career path taking the HK offer. In the US you will likely have to lateral an extra time before ending up at your PE/HF goal, all while being on edge about whether you can continue staying in the country
Which EB? If it's Evercore or PJT I would take it in a heartbeat. Given your age I think you should allow yourself the chance to explore NYC and also a field within finance you may love (this is so overlooked on this forum). If after a year on the activism defense team you realize you're not learning as many transferable skills as you had thought, try switching groups within your firm by the end of your second year, or lateral to another bank in NYC.
Agreed. Also can't ignore the NYC stamp on your resume. If with Evercore or PJT, take it in a heartbeat.
OP here, really appreciate everyone's input - a lot of valuable perspectives I didn't expect.
Which choice would be better for FT general IB recruiting (NYC)? Seems most people here are in IB - if you were screening resumes or interviewing candidates, what would be more impressive? A NY EB role with not so much modeling experience, or a Hong Kong BB IBD role (let's say a "good" group like M&A)?
NY EB. Switch from Shareholder Activism Defense at a top EB in NY to M&A is an easier sell than HK to NYC. Besides, most ppl would perceive an offer from Evercore/PJT Shareholder Activism as a much higher feat than landing a BB IBD in HK for summer.
"Much higher" is debatable, especially given its GS/JPM/MS. In my mind these two feats may be somewhat equivalent, the only thing that pushes the EB feat higher is the fact that OP is international
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