Hey guys,
I’m currently a Junior majoring in Finance at DePaul University in Chicago. It’s a decent B-school if anything maybe even C. This research should have been done a lot earlier, but untill recently I’ve been a subpar student and wasting my life away. I’m ready for a change now.
I made a post earlier about IB and what I should do to land a job. Only issue is that chances are severally slim for me to land a job in IB, so I’m trying to cover my bases. I took the advice, done extensive research on WSO. and still am working at it. Since then I’ve even managed to line up an internship and working to maintain my 4.0. I still really want a job in IB, but I should prepare myself for the worst case I can’t land one.
I won’t lie my main goal is to make a lot of money out of college and for the rest of my life. I’m posting here to asking what others route should I take out of college to land and job making good money?
- Should I continue schooling and try to get into a target school for my Masters? And try for a job after my Masters. I don’t want to graduate DePaul and end up working in insurance because of my school.
- Should I double major in something else and try for a job then?
- What job should I be trying for straight out of school that would pay well and open a lot of doors for in the future?
I’ve just been a bit stressed about not knowing what exactly I’m still trying to accomplish with my major. I would really appreciate the guidance. Thank you :)
One thought about a masters- Generally, getting a masters is a way to get another shot at entry-level recruiting. It is a way to get another school on your resume and give you more time to network and whatever. This is a good option for some, but you have to remember that it provides no guarantees, and at the end of it you're only getting an entry-level job. One girl at my company graduated from a state school, went and got a double masters, and then landed a Financial Analyst II job at my company. That's an awful ROI right there- an FAII job is the guaranteed promotion above entry-level. She could have taken any shit finance job and lateraled into that role.
My bias is for corporate finance. I know that CF doesn't make as much out of college as IB, but the trade-offs are decent. Most CF jobs are 40-50 hours a week at entry-level, and average starting salaries are $50k-$70k. This jumps to $70k-$90k after two years, and if you get another promotion, you can expect to hit 6 figs at 5-8 years out of college. Again, all while working 40-50 hours a week and not living in an expensive city like NYC.
Here is the best part though- generally, CF jobs are your run of the mill, middle class white collar jobs. I'd say that 70%-80% of people in CF are content and not really ambitious. They want to get promoted in place, but they aren't willing to switch companies/cities to chase promotions. Therein lies an opportunity for ambitious people. There are thousands and thousands of CF jobs across the country- you can rise very quickly if you do whatever it takes to get the next promotion as soon as you are eligible.
Plenty of examples of this- I networked with a guy who had a personal rule to either get promoted in place every two years, or chase that promotion elsewhere. He got the job of CFO at a F750 company at 41, pulling $1.5-$2M a year. I found and followed another guy's tiny corporate travel blog, and he hit VP of a F500 company at 31, and is now a CFO of a subsidiary of that company (he's 35 now). Another guy was in the FLDP at the company I am in currently. He worked here for 3 years, went to HBS, went to a F500 company as manager and hit Director at 30 and VP at 31. Never had the same role for more than 2 years. Another graduate of the FLDP moved within the company (but around the country) for promotions and hit Director at 29, and he is the CFO of a subsidiary now (at 37). Granted, those guys are the top performers, my point is that you don't need IB to succeed. If you apply ambition to whatever route you take, you'll do well.
I'd recommend this path for you- still try to network for IB. If that fails, skip the Masters. I'd shoot for an FLDP and would kill it for 2-4 years. If things are slowing down, you can get a top MBA and you are gold for anything- IB, whatever.
Cannot agree more. I will add one caveat though.
When interviewing for CF be very direct that you aren't trying to jump ship to IB, b-school, etc. afterwards. If you have any FO internships or interests they will be a little suspicious of why you're interviewing for CF.
If you're shooting for ib do not just shoot for the BBs and EBs. In reality only about 5 or 6 of those firms even give non-targets a shot. Some will disagree with one-off stories of their best pal who's at Lazard or MS but these firms are very risk-averse. Read the joke of the SA megathread if you don't believe me.
A MSF DOESN'T GET YOU IBD WITHOUT EXPERIENCE!!! Cannot say this enough. Look at people who get into ib from those programs. The overwhelming majority had internships/ft experience in FO roles before the MSF. There is no substitute for experience and FT recruiting is very difficult. The MBA is the only true reset button in this industry.
Personally, I think there are equally good jobs to ib but people here are so ib or bust it's fucking stupid. I'd rather do meaningful work in AM for ~100k starting on 50-60 hours in a low COL area than do a bunch of bitch work in IB for 130-140k on 90 hours and in NYC.
I assume if you show that you are just using CF as a stepping stone to IB, you won't get hired?
I am currently looking for experience/internships as we speak. I didn't know much about how a Master's Degree is seen in this industry, but now it's more clear. Thank you.
Yeah, I don't see doing bitch work for IB as an ideal scenario, but I only wanted to do it for a few years to get it on my resume to jump to HF or PE.
I didn't know that a Master's Degree is another shot at an entry-level job. Everything you said provided a lot of insight on what my next steps will be. Thank you! Should I still add a double major?
I'm going to continue trying for a job in IB and if it doesn't work out for me, so be it. I too was considering corporate finance as a "fallback". I have the ambition needed, I don't want to just settle in middle class. I'm ready to give it my all. I'm going to be sure to keep the "2 year promotion" in mind for the rest of my life.
When you say gold for anything after 2-4 years would that even include skipping IB as a whole and jump straight to hedge fund or private equity?
Thanks for everything once again.
I'd say the double major comes down to how it will effect your GPA. Sad as it is, GPA is king. If you don't have a GPA above the cutoff, companies will filter out your resume before even looking at it. I got to help with the recruiting process for my company last year and I was determined to give every resume a fair shake and treat the candidates the way I hoped to be treated. But then I was handed a stack of 50 resumes, and after spending an hour looking at the first 7-8, I quickly realized that I simply couldn't spend my time staring at resumes. Eventually I just did 2 things: Check the GPA to make sure it was above the cutoff, and read job titles to see if there was any relevant work experience. If the candidate passed, then I would actually read the resume. My point is that GPA is a litmus test, and you want to be at least over a 3.3 and hopefully over a 3.5 before considering making college harder. If you've already got this down, then sure- an extra major looks good. If not, then you need to go into total GPA maintenance mode. Forget "learning", forget the "noble pursuit of knowledge"- you have to find out who the easiest blow-off professors are and take their classes, and maybe overload with easy classes to get your GPA up.
BillBelichick37 was 100% right when he said not to hint to companies that you are or ever were interested in IB. In every interview you want to do your research on the company and make it seem like you have wanted to work there for years. In that job, at that company, in that industry. Don't be a kiss up/tryhard, but you want to subtly convey that this is THE interview you have been preparing for during your entire college career. Of course, that wont be true, but before you have any FT experience, companies only want to hire you if they think you'll be there forever.
I'm think you can jump to PE/HF if you go to a top 5 school, but I can't say for sure- I haven't really looked into the CF->MBA->HF/PE route.
I hear you about not wanting to settle in middle class. At the same time though, you'd be surprised at what $150k-$200k can do for you in a moderate COL city.. I grew up thinking one of my uncles was really rich because he had a huge house, went on nice vacations, sent his kids to the best schools, had a country club membership.. Looking back now, I think he only pulls $250k a year living in a higher than average COL area. Of course, I'm not trying to tell you to settle for less, but I've been pleasantly surprised at how much money I've been able to save while maintaining a decent quality of life on my entry-level CF pay. Don't get me wrong, my goals are still to drive an Aston Martin and have a beachfront vacation house and boat, but I know it's a marathon rather than a sprint, and that I'll still have a great time along the way.
SB'D @dan_yo23" Is the guy with the travel blog 'Business Class Living' by chance?
@TommyGunn" Yeah. Unfortunately he deleted all the posts recently.. You can find most of them on the wayback machine if you look hard enough. Why do you ask? Had you heard about it before? outside of the 1-2 times I've mentioned it on WSO
PM me if you want my .02 cents, I know a good bit about DePaul
Try going into credit or join a boutique for sometime. Pursue CFA?
Pursue CFA before or after my Bachelors?
Edit: Just did some research on CFA. Seems like you need 3/4 years experience first, so after it is haha.
Do Lvl 1 asap, and looking into boutiques and credit analyst positions would be wise.
danyo23 - fantastic post.
Don't know what I'd do without him.
What does the phrase ‘off chance’ mean to you?
Hoping for something that’s unlikely. I assume I tucked up the context?
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