How has I-Banking changed since the 2008 crash?
What is different today than 5 years ago?
What are your thoughts on this comment
I don't see the money coming back anytime soon. The last time we had this steep of a dropoff was from 1929 to 1933. Finance never really recovered until the late 1970s.I do see other aspects of the job getting better. Who wants to work 90 hours/week for $120K/year when a programmer is earning $120K for 40 hours?
Lots of experienced guys argued and argued with me two years ago when I claimed the job market and pay would get worse for a couple more years. They turned out to be wrong and I turned out to be right.
My new prediction is that things will stop getting worse and some things will get better.
We might see unemployment dip below 7% by the end of the year, and banks will have to choose between losing employees, paying people more, or treating employees more nicely. I'm betting on the third choice.There will be fewer assholes, better work-life balance, and better job security. The assholes will slither their way over to startups, VC firms, and consulting.
Less money. Less partying. Less baller. More finance. More people who want to be here.
More rules, more work for less profit, more competition, less fun, less opportunity
no end in sight
My honest guess was that things would have picked up by now but they have not and I'm reconsidering joining the military. It's kind of just me but I have a fucking problem with sitting around just collecting a salary. I came here to bust my ass and get wealthy, and seeing how it's just less and less likely for me and everyone around me I'm considering just going and doing what it is I'd actually enjoy.
Today I see banking as more of just a stepping stone than a long-term career plan. Maybe Pre-2008, people tended to stay in banking longer and become senior partners and then bring in the big bucks. But today, I think the majority of analysts (I'd say at least 85% - correct me if I'm wrong) just want to use it as a learning experience and then join the buy side or use their knowledge to start their own company... and then become rich. Those who become rich because of IB are few and far between - only the higher-ups and in my experience I see a lot of people leaving after 2 years rather than sticking around and making it to MD.
I feel like people would have a higher probability of becoming wealthy if they just did whatever it was they truly enjoyed and busted their ass to become the best at it. Becoming a banker is more of a "safe" way to become wealthy - less risk of losing your job or failing compared to initiating a startup, so less of a chance of becoming wealthy.
Correct me if I'm wrong and feel free to disagree; I am interested to know other's opinions on if Banking actually makes you wealthy or if it is just an educational program that can be used a stepping stone to become wealthy at something else.
more comments apes
I don't see the money coming back anytime soon. The last time we had this steep of a dropoff was from 1929 to 1933. Finance never really recovered until the late 1970s.
I do see other aspects of the job getting better. Who wants to work 90 hours/week for $120K/year when a programmer is earning $120K for 40 hours?
Lots of experienced guys argued and argued with me two years ago when I claimed the job market and pay would get worse for a couple more years. They turned out to be wrong and I turned out to be right.
My new prediction is that things will stop getting worse and some things will get better.
We might see unemployment dip below 7% by the end of the year, and banks will have to choose between losing employees, paying people more, or treating employees more nicely. I'm betting on the third choice.
There will be fewer assholes, better work-life balance, and better job security. The assholes will slither their way over to startups, VC firms, and consulting.
I know people like to try to make that argument for being an engineer without realizing that engineering salaries start high, but generally don't grow that much.
Definitely not true in the case of the UK or continental Europe.
My two Oxbridge staircase buddies who studied CS started at 95k and 110k GBP respectively (back when the GBP meant something as a currency). The first one could have made more but he insisted on freelancing.
It is true that CS grads are bad at selling themselves or at finding those who need their talent.
It is also true that whilst you can hack it in banking/trading with pure drive and high school maths, the barrier to entry is a little higher in CS.
Finance teaching and research after the global financial crisis (Originally Posted: 04/16/2011)
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I'm not sure if you're right. It objectively is less "baller." Pay is still down, public perception is bad. Most people don't distinguish between bankers and traders vis. financial crisis blame.. e.g. I see tons of articles in respected papers referring to traders as bankers. And I'm not sure that you can confidently speculate on the quality of any 5-10 year outlook, particularly M&A market trends.
Trading and commercial banking should also be separate entities.
the link doesn't work
Google, Amazon, Facebook all north of $100K these days.
I've worked with Google engineers. The comp growth is faster and steeper than banking. Someone from a university in North Cali which wasn't Stanford (hint hint) was making 400k in 3 years. The work can be fascinating depending on the company. If you are more of a thinker it's definitely more pleasant, and most importantly constantly evolving (keeping you constantly challenged) vs PE type work which is really about competitively moving up a learning curve towards established knowledge that hasn't changed much for millenia ("what it takes to run a business profitably"). Look for example at the explosion of machine learning stuff, the revolution forced by multicore processors (Moore's law stopped for single core with the Pentium 4) forcing concurrency (and later parallelism) onto every single developer ever.
Computer science is definitely a sexy career if you can hack it, and if you combine it with one or two other fields.
delete thread please
global market share increasingly from emerging markets
work life balance has increased because there is less work involved in pitching compared to live deals
lol 45@ Google makes more than 120....My pops is an industrial engineer in midwest where 3500 sq ft home is 280K and clears 150k+ in an individual contribution role.
prestige has taken an enormous hit and banking no longer attracts top talent the way it used to. plenty of bright kids who once would have pursued banking are now more likely to go into management consulting or a tech company. banking and bankers are just less impressive these days.
compensation has reduced while expectations and workload have remained constant. something has to give at some point. i think investment banking may have started on a path towards being just another financial services product albeit a higher-end service. downward pressure on fees will only increase and at some point bankers won't be willing to work as hard. that will be acceptable to clients given that the reduction in service quality resulting from banker hours going from 100 hours to 70 hours per week won't really hurt much.
Slightly related - how have sites like college confidential & wall street oasis changed banking?
It just seems like the proliferation of information is ridiculous now. Ten years ago exiting high school seniors without relatives in the business didn't really understand the overall earnings potential on Wall Street.
I would say that because everything has gone digital thanks to technological advancements, it makes it easier for people to dig up and pass around info which then gets posted on sites like this. My guess would be that it has 'somewhat' made getting into the industry more competitive....I could be totally wrong though haha...just my $0.02
Still a lot of cashish to get.
I wonder how much a hit employee comp will take once the capital requirements of basel 3 kicks and bank profits sink further...
This whole finance vs. tech argument sucks and happens even more than a WSO noob asking about drug testing. They are completely different fields and should not be compared. Also, why would you try to argue for a tech firm on a website filled with kids that get off at the thought of working at GS?
If you're coming here for advice on how to get into banking or finance, I guess it's irrelevant. But if you're coming here for advice on WHY banking, it's VERY relevant. This thread seems to be a bit more about what banking is like once you're in, so I think raising issues about other industries is relevant.
It's also important for people to keep their eyes open. If you know that you'd HATE 80 hour workweeks or lots of stress and that you're fairly competent on a technical level (most people know this about themselves), a career in tech is not a terrible outcome. If you're a devout Catholic and like helping people, neither is going off and becoming a Jesuit.
You choose this industry because you enjoy finance and because you want a lifestyle on the upper end of middle-class. That's all we will likely have to offer the vast, vast majority of bright, successful people over the next twenty or thirty years.
No more amazing/crazy holiday parties where people other than the MD hook up w/ their assistants :(
Wow, DBL attacks my credibility even though I turn out to be right. Oh well, better to make money than make friends.
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