Hey all, I am focused on gaining a PE role post-MBA. I understand the difficulty in attaining this type of role, but I am willing to do the work required. Given that I won't be targeting the MFs or largest MM funds, and want to end up in NYC (ideally), would you attend a 2 yr MBA program at Stern or Tuck. My background is in investment banking with a Big 10 UG degree.
I appreciate the feedback!
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Tuck has better placement for PE while Stern has better placement for IB. Very little buyside recruitment at Stern. There will be buyside recruitment at both MBA programs.
Tuck sent 7% to PE/VC with a class size of 280 = 20 total Stern sent 3% to PE/VC with a class size of 392 = 12 total
These are from their 2012/2013 class profiles.
I'm not sure about the Tuck numbers. If you look here (https://www.tuck.dartmouth.edu/careers/employment-statistics/full-time-…) 2% are PE by industry and 2% are PE/VC by function, which would be ~5-6 students. The 7% figure you cite appears to be 2014 internship placements, which I would hesitate to use as data for full-time opportunities. I also wouldn't be surprised if those FT figures included mezz/minority equity shops along with traditional LBO or VC. That said, I still think Tuck's a fantastic choice to look into and am considering it myself along with some of the usual suspects.
Yes, thanks for pointing that out. I used the internship numbers.
goodL1fe, good stats I assume the 20 from Tuck and 12 from Stern included people returning to their pre-MBA PE firms Thus, question becomes how many of these were not 'sponsored?'
Ya, I'd assume most the guys at Stern/Tuck who receive PE offers have pre-MBA experience.
On a side note I looked into Wharton's placement statistics for comparison. Wharton sent 12.9% with a class size of 800 to PE/VC = 103 total. The interesting thing is 16% or 128 people came into Wharton with PE/VC experience. It seems like you need pre-MBA PE/VC experience to break into PE/VC post-MBA.
My point/question was NOT simply if they had pre-MBA PE experience - Rather, I am was asking how many of these guys/girls were RETURNING to their pre-MBA firms
For example, if there are 20 at Tuck who went into PE last year (looks like this may be interns, per below), but 19/20 were re-joining their former PE firms, then this would have much bleaker implications for the PE recruiting situation at Tuck
My guess = a fair number of these Tuck/NYU people who go into PE are sponsored/returning to previous firms, as bschool recruiting into HSW has become tougher for PE types. I figured there were a fair amount of good pre-MBAs who may have been admitted to HSW (or Columbia, perhaps), so chose to go to Tuck, then return to previous PE firms
Again, this is my guess/question - I have no idea if this plays out in reality, thus this is why I was asking..
tuck -- they have a very strong pe network from both consulting and BB and the network is ridic
In addition to the above, I'd add that Tuck's network is well-known for being remarkably intimate, loyal, and helpful. It's a smaller program relative to the MBA business schools ">M7, but anyone coming out of it really seems to go to bat for anyone else they know. While the placement numbers aren't strong on an absolute basis, they're stronger relative to Stern and I think that fact plus the helpful network means this is an easy choice.
Edit: looks like stw beat me to it.
Question for those with more of a finance/buy-side background: does the fact that OP does not have prior PE experience change the equation? My first thought was Tuck too (very biased, but genuinely think it places well in PE). However, OP doesn’t have any PE experience, just banking. My impression is that it’s hard enough these days to get a PE job with prior experience, let alone without.
One distinct advantage that I think the New York schools have is that students can intern during the year, and get that experience (or at least line item) on their resume. Do you guys think that matters, or should he go to the school with the best absolute placement/chances?
In addition to the great insight of the posters above, Tuck's Center for Private Equity and Entrepreneurship (http://cpee.tuck.dartmouth.edu/) is gaining in its support from the industry and funding. That means more connections with PE firms and opportunities for internships, at least theoretically.
The Center is actually very well regarded by industry, and one of the few in the world that supports research in the industry (the LBS Coller Center for Private Equity another other big name, and also growing in influence.) The thing is, the industry realizes that there isn't enough scholarly research helping practitioners do their jobs. So they support centers like Tuck, and that gets them involved in the school, whether they are alums or not. For example, this is straight from the center's website: If you are an alumnus or friend of the Tuck Center for Private Equity and Entrepreneurship or you work in private equity, please contact us ([email protected]) to set up a campus visit to meet with students, offer an internship to a student, find students to work on a project for your firm, or to provide financial support for Center initiatives.
Thank you guys again. Given this thread, plus additional conversations, research and my own personal wants, I would choose Tuck over Stern. Looking into the near future, I will be receiving decisions from both Kellogg and Booth. How would you approach the predicament if I had to choose between Booth/Kellogg/Tuck... initially Booth and Kellogg for me ranked way above Tuck on my personal rankings, but with more research, Tuck seems like a fantastic choice (well regarded brand - Ivy, strong PE center, strong network, PE presence, NYC presence).
Thanks!
One way to approach this would be to think about Kellogg vs. Tuck in a vacuum first, and then compare whichever comes out on top to Booth. I view Kellogg and Tuck as very similar to each other, and think of them as being quite different than Chicago.
Personally I would probably go to Tuck. If you are gunning for PE in NYC, chances are you're going to need to spend significant time there networking, and that's going to take more time/money if you're based in Chicago. And for the MM type roles you are gunning for, I think Tuck's tight-knit network and small community would be hugely helpful. There might be more PE professionals visiting Kellogg/Booth, but you're likely to get more facetime at Tuck.
Also of note, I know you mentioned NYC, but there is a pretty good PE scene in Boston too.
Hopefully you'll be in a position where you get to make this decision - good luck!
Thanks guys, these posts are extremely helpful!
I hate to simplify too much, but consider Occam's Razor ( with multiple possible explanations for an event or result, the simplest is almost always correct.) And that is, whatever feels right to you, is probably the answer.
So don't turn yourself inside out on this one. As my accountant said when I complained about my tax bill, "these are good problems to have."
If I were to do an MBA, which is unlikely given my situation, the only school I would apply to would be Tuck. The WSO community and online reviews of Tuck are pretty outstanding.
I respect both schools, but I'd choose Tuck. Stern is not without its strengths, but Tuck has the most loyal MBA network in the world and in PE, that's got to count for something.
Short of HBS, Stanford and Wharton, Tuck is as good for PE as any other school.
PE recruitment is difficult through MBA, but it is not impossible. I have seen a few cases where people make the transition without even having done IB or finance!
http://www.amerasiaconsulting.com/blog/2013/5/29/tuck-kellogg-school-of…
BGP2587 - you always have insightful / balanced comments. Definitely one of my favorite posters.
I think that you brought up an important point - OP has shared that he doesn't have buyside experience (possesses sell side / IBD experience) and frankly, without buyside experience, it is extremely difficult to join a private equity firm. It's simple supply / demand - there is an incredible number of former-PE students ("pre-MBA" associates at the megafunds and associates at MM firms that are gently nudged to obtain an MBA) and an even greater number of IBD students with solid experience (poor idiots like me) gunning for a small handful of PE jobs across the country. There really isn't a compelling reason for a PE firm to hire a student without PE experience vs. someone that possesses it (unless, you have a MBB background, in which case you would add tremendous value from an operational perspective. PE firms definitely hire consultants but they do so in either an industry or operational capacity; from the modeling / capital markets / portfolio management perspective, you'd obviously prefer someone with PE experience). I do think that there will be value in OP interning in NYC at a PE firm during the academic year (most likely the Spring semester because it's just not doable during the Fall) to set himself up for 2nd year recruiting. You're not going to get a buyside / PE summer internship during your first semester because you don't have the experience. You're going to most likely need to recruit again for elite boutiques (i.e. Evercore, Greenhill, Centerview, Lazard) for the summer internship, complete a spring academic internship and recruit again for PE for full-time during your second year.
Tuck obviously has deep resources in CPEE but even though a school possesses profound academic resources, this won't necessarily translate into jobs, especially if you don't have alumni at these PE firms going to bat for you.
That's not true (and disclosure: I'm a HUGEEE Tuck fan - seriously. The school is badass. If I didn't get into CBS, I would have made a sprint for Tuck)
Poetsandquants (for all its faults + reveling in Wharton bashing) has a nice recent article outlining (rather crudely through linkedin searches but it is still insightful) what schools top-tier PE employees graduated from. H/W are peerless (269 and 242 grads respectively according to P&Q), but afterwards only CBS / Stern / Stanford are in the conversation. Booth / Kellogg / Tuck all have weak representation at the elite PE firms (TPG/Carlyle/BX/KKR/WP/Apollo/BainCap,etc.). Tuck has 17 total alum (again, the search was crude and probably not all encompassing) vs. at ONLY Carlyle, 41 from HBS, 30 from Wharton, 18 from CBS, and 12 from Stern.
(I can't seem to post the link but just google "where-top-mbas-work-in-private-equity"; pg 2)
That being said, while NYU Stern is a great school, I would still choose Tuck. Getting to PE without PE experience is going to be entirely on your shoulders and you are going to need to rely on an externality / X-factor to have a chance. I think that's where the Tuck network will come into play. As aforementioned numerous times, the Tuck network seems to be the strongest and most loyal. Tuckies seem to literally run through walls for their own. And while Stern will place you in NYC, you will have stiff competition from CBS and HW (not to mention the countless very qualified people from other top 10 schools).
Also, regarding Kellogg, choose Booth over Kellogg for PE. My best friend from my BB firm is currently at Booth and Booth places stronger in PE, unequivocally (Kellogg is clearly better for marketing / general management though, but these are not your areas of interest). As for Booth vs. Tuck, even Booth has it hard in placing people in PE. My friend is pursuing the path that I mentioned before: summer at an elite boutique (he got a summer offer), spring academic internship at a MM PE firm in Chicago, then recruit balls to the wall 2nd year.
WRT my comment on Tuck's placement in PE compared to other non-HSW schools, you can't compare absolute numbers for schools such as NYU that have half a dozen program (eg undergrad, part time, exec) and orders of magnitudes more grads. Look at it in terms of proportion. And then keep in mind that Tuckies much less likely to be finance oriented so the smaller numbers are also a reflection of less interest in PE on the part of Tuckies. And finally, I would take 10 Tuckies over 100 alums from other schools any day of the week. I am going to Tuck in the fall and already I feel I can call a Tuckie anywhere in the world and really count on him or her to help me far more than any other school's alum would, as if he or she was a good friend or family member.
WOW
http://poetsandquants.com/2012/02/09/tuck-mba-reports-863k-pay-package/
OP - Just curious, what did you tell b-schools your goal was when you applied? Did you say a career in PE right out of school?
Guys, this feedback is again very useful.
@"misterbearstin" your feedback is fantastic. It really helps me think through things. @"RustyR" thank you for your links and feedback...also helpful! @"graham2829" my short-term post-MBA goal for every school I applied to was turnaround private equity
NP. Please let us know when you decide.
@financestudent12345 Congrats, dude. There's at least 5 of us on WSO going to Tuck next year - building a pretty strong contingent. PM me if you're heading up to Hanover next weekend.
@misterbearstin Thanks for the kind words, and for the info in that post. SB'ed.
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