Hey monkeys,
Freshman undergoing a dilemma right now. I was recently admitted to (arguably) the best major in an Asian target university: BSc in Quantitative Finance, and I have a choice between this and a regular BBA in Finance. Just a few pros and cons in my mind:
Pros:
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The former has a very solid alumni network, lots of the alumni are working in high finance jobs, with the fact added that it's "exclusive" since only 6-7% of Business undergrads are admitted to this major, seniors say that alumni are more willing to help due to this fact.
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Statistics show very good industry placement and very high mean starting salaries, plus some firms contact the department directly and ask for our CVs (at least that's what they sold during the info session!)
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Banks in the cities I'm aiming for know that this is a very challenging + rigorous course, heard this from alumni as well, so might be more relaxed for minimum GPA requirements.
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Good non-academic programs that the regular BBA would not have; such as career mentorship program and QFIN-exclusive seminars.
Cons:
-
My main concern: My GPA will definitely take a free fall due to the really heavy math-oriented courses; I see myself graduating with not more than a 3.3/4.0, more likely 3.0/3.1, good for Second Class Upper. Compared to the BBA in Finance, I see myself graduating with a 3.5-3.6.
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Definitely less time for extracurriculars (and social life!)
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Even though statistics show very good industry placement and very high mean starting salaries, I just feel that this is because of self-selection bias.
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I feel that a low GPA would also be a hindrance later on when I apply for B-school programs.
So monkeys, what do you think? I feel like I don't deserve to be admitted to this program, but I read a quote just yesterday:
"I'm a firm believer that your own opinion of yourself should never be a limiting factor in how far you go in life. If someone offers you an opportunity that you don't deserve, you grab it and you work your ass off to make yourself deserving of it. Never underestimate what you can do, leave that to other people."
Any thoughts from you monkeys? Go for the prestige or the GPA?
P.S. I'm aiming for a career in Trading / Asset Management, IBD and Sales are secondary choices.
Thanks!
Edit: @MarkBaum" suggested that I should post the courses, so here we go:
BBA Finance:
- Investments, Derivatives, corporate finance and Valuation
- 2 Financial Accounting courses
- More flexibility since there are more free elective courses (4 to 6)
BSc Quant Finance:
- Same as BBA Finance minus financial accounting
- Math side: Single and multi-variable calculus, with several electives; probably going for two probability courses since I heard many trading interviews have this, and econometrics. Quant trading is a course.
- CS side: VBA, might go with a course in statistical analysis with R and OOP class (C++)
- Less flexibility, only 1 to 4 free elective courses.
quant will be the future, I'd aim for that.
Teaching myself VBA, SQl and Python in my spare time to stay up-to-date.
Even at the cost of GPA? I'm really talking about the difference of 0.3-0.4 points, about a sub-grade difference. I'm just really scared that I won't even be able to make the cutoff.
Just curious, why VBA? I really don't see VBA being much of a useful language anymore. SQL and Python are fine but I would suggest going for something more structured. Java, C/C++, Perl. I'm guessing you have one of them down?
Go for the one that will give you the highest GPA. Banks have a cutoff GPA of 3.5 that is very literal and real. Don't go for "the future" because there is a very small chance you will die before the future so focus on the present.
TLDR: Get the highest GPA and voila :D
Exactly, after reading around on WSO , I've thought about taking the one that gives me the highest GPA.
Although I figure I should ask for the monkeys' thoughts and opinions. Thanks anyway!
Sure thing boss, good luck with everything you are on the right track nonetheless :)
Maybe go for finance and CS. You might be able to avoid some of the math that concerns you. Maybe look into some the financial engineering courses as pass fail to help hone any coding skills more toward finance.
.
Idk what uni u go to but from the schools ik, a degree in quant finance is VERY different from a normal degree in finance. Quant finance for undergrad is really niche imo but then again idk what kinda program ur uni offers. If u want to go into trading, it's much harder to do now with a normal finance degree because it requires a much more rigorous math and comp sci background. If i had to choose, i'd prob choose your former choice (quant finance) because if the alumni network is as good as u say, u shouldn't have a problem landing roles and firms would already understand from alumni that ur GPA would be lower in this program compared to normal finan.
Well, looking at the courses, Quant finance has the same required courses as finance (except for 2 accounting courses). With finance, I'd have more flexibility in selecting my electives (thus better GPA since I could technically select grade boosters), while in quant finance, I don't have flexibility at all, and most of the courses are very math-oriented with horrible grading.
I agree with your take on trading!
Bump! Need more thoughts from the monkeys from WSO :-)
Take the Quant track and graduate with a 3.5 GPA. If Engineers can do it with heavy math classes, so can you...
Done and done.
I don't see why you'd sell yourself short like that. The fact is that A. you're a freshman and B. investment banking isn't everything. You graduate with a finance degree and you have one option: get a high GPA and go into banking/consulting. You graduate with a quant finance degree and you can do anything, because quantitative applications are the future. Don't "bank" on getting a low GPA just because you challenge yourself. With that mentality, you're just going the low-risk route and ensuring you get comparatively low return.
I graduated with an economics degree, and my biggest regret was not doing a BS in Financial Mathematics that my school offered with a CS minor. It gives you the range and quantitative chops to handle just about anything. GPA is only important your very first year out of college. Past that it's only important if you're targeting intake programs like PE shops that want 2nd-year professionals, B-School, or HFs recruiting undergrad/grad students. That's a ridiculously narrow range of employers to choose a degree over.
If you graduate =>3.0 in quant finance you're golden. If you get =>3.5, you're god. If you get a 4.0 with a finance degree, join the club with all the other kids who did the same thing, or go cry in a corner if you got
what I was thinking
Hey Kassad,
Thanks for your amazing viewpoint. I'll keep this in mind.
Love that last line by the way :-)
Go for the one that gives you the best/more expensive an most applicable skills not highest GPA. Traders will not give a single piece of sht about whether your GPA is 3.7842, 3.365 or 3.134, they want to see that you can get sht done and you will do it via math, programming and stats, not marketing and business economics.
I think some more information on the courses for the Quant Finance might help us. If the degree is fluid and just has a name then I wouldn't suggest going for it. However, if the degree is actually very mathematically structured, then I would choose it regardless of what GPA you end up with.
I have friends in Chem Engineering at top schools with sub 3.0 GPAs that are hunted for all sorts of engineering jobs at JPL, NASA, Boeing...etc. Just an example of GPA not equating to a job per se.
Also consider that IB will most likely not be what you do forever.
Some of the courses:
So yes, it's quite a mathematically structured program in comparison to the regular finance course.
Thanks for the insight! +1 SB.
That's considered quant? At my school, the regular Econ major requires multivariable/linear algebra and probability/statistics/econometrics. Go with the quant
Tell us the higher level courses. As it is, this sounds like my economics degree sans the CS work.
The more math classes the merrier. Regardless of what you pursue in the future, if you have math covered till at least Differential Equations and Linear Algebra, then you should be fine getting into a MS program. I would choose the quant major simply because of the stronger focus on math courses.
Definitely take Econometrics and also take as many stats classes as possible. Too much math can't hurt you (forget about the GPA).
With regards to the programming classes, do not listen to most on this site. VBA is a pretty useless language nowadays. I would strongly recommend learning C/C++ first and then going into something else. Most OS for databases are written in C/C++ and even Java is very very similar, with the exception of array bounds checking.
After that, learning any language will be a breeze: SQL, Assembly, Java, Perl, Python....
The Quant finance degree is much more appealing and can lead to a change in career path in the future as well. Best!
Quantitative Finance or Finance? (Originally Posted: 03/09/2018)
Hi to everyone, i am an italian student of business administration, a undergraduate (3 year) course and the next year i'll have to choose in which master of science applying. I really enjoyed courses like corporate finance and financial intermediaries. I'll continue my studies in italy and i'd like to apply to a finance master of science and i have a big dilemma: i think that i would enjoy more a master like Finance or Finance and Banking that are master with some quantitative subjects that are necessary to understand the rest of the course. My dilemma is that in Italy there are few (about 3) quite new courses like "Quantitative Finance", that seem promising for the future but at the same time i think that i would not like them, these course focus mostly on statistical and matematical subject loosing the economic and business point of view that usually has a course in finance or banking. My question is do you think that a course in quantitative finance is more worthy that a standard course in finance or banking, or there are pros and cons in both kind of masters? (if the answer as i hope is that there are pros and cons can you explain me which are in your opinion, and especially the difference for available job and career) Thanks in advance and sorry for my bad english
I had a related discussion with an alumni about quant finance, and one point he made is that most quant jobs are stricted to MS and Phd degrees anyway, since the depth of a quant finance curriculum isnt really enough at the undergrad level to be useful to quant firms. Obviously there are exceptions, but those are more of a minority. Having done some rough searches for us/asia pacific, this generally seems to be true as jobs specifically require MS or above, so it might be worth getting good gpa, apply to MS and then break into quant trading. This may be different for your region, but just some food for thought.
bump
It depends on your goals and which master you want to apply for. If your goal is to end in IBD, then pick something like accounting and finance, corporate finance or finance. If your goal is to end in S&T, HF or something like that, then pick the quant one.
FWIW pick the one with the higher brand of the Uni, I mean economic history at LSE would be even better than quant finance in a non target Uni, although the program matters more.
Thank you for the answer, im not quite sure about what my goal is, but i think that if today i'd have to choose among IBD and SeT ot HF i'd probably choose IBD. Sincerely i have not considered much the brand of the Uni, so what ranking shoud i consider? The QS ranking is good?
Take a look at FT, QS and World University Ranking. But be aware that most of them - eg FT - are confused or manipulated by data such as internship or other info. I mean, for finance you don't even have LSE's MSc, nor LBS's MFA, but you have EDHEC before MIT
I'd recommend the QF degree over regular finance. From personal experience, I go to a US school with a quant finance degree and students land jobs in IB, trading, and even quant heavy roles. There is a lot of demand for students with those type of skills--the school is a non-target/semi-target, but consistently posts 100% employment with many at BB with this degree.
Based on what you said, I think your program is very similar (basically all the finance courses+math/CS courses), which are highly transferable to careers outside IB as well.
edit: I'd like to note that many have GPAs of
My advice - always bet on yourself. If you work hard enough, you will be able to get a 3.5+ GPA. You can still have extracurriculars and a social life, too, you may just have to give a little sleep.
I'm assuming this is the JMU program (not Carnegie / Princeton)? Ah nm, you said Asian. Yes these programs are usually really hard and will likely hurt GPA but still got me a front office sales trading job when I graduated... 3.6 which was strong but not top of class by any means (the crazy brilliant math types). It's a complicated decision no doubt. IBD won't care you went through it but certain S&T desks plus risk management will. PM me. Happy to chat over phone.
Hey Redbud! Yes, it's an Asian program. PMed!
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