Question about PhD's in HF's

You just don't get it blue...

Midas,

I have to disagree with some of your post. Illinois graduates about 20 Econ PhDs a year, but hundreds of Math PhDs. I think some of the oversupply of Econ PhDs is evidenced in the market for Math PhDs and Econ PhDs. Math PhDs can expect long postdocs before they become professors; Econ PhDs typically get hired directly as Assistant Profs earning $100K+ and have an easier time of getting tenure. This isn't to dump on Physics and Math PhDs at all- they're TOUGH, TOUGH degrees. There's just a glut of them.

Econ and Stats definitely have a place in hedge funds- but Stats might also be well suited for insurance. Allstate usually has a few openings for quantitative researchers every year, and if you're a stats PhD, it might be a good idea to check out one of the big insurance companies.

^I thought insurance was dominated by FSA/FCAS Actuaries, rather than PhD Statisticians. As far fetched as it sounds, I'd imagine it would be easier to attain a Stats PhD compared to a Fellowship in an Actuarial Society.

I'm actually considering the prospect of pursuing a PhD in Economics or Statistics. Lets see how things turn out in two to three years...

hmmm...

i'm interested in hearing more about which roles which PhD's qualify you for.

as far as economics, you said 'quant' roles unless its something professorial like economic history. well, first, what kind of roles would something like economic history land you at a HF? and what about the other kinds of economics phds...macro/micro/international/developmental/labor/econometrics/etc.

and the roles of stat phd's at hedge funds/insurance companies?

dude economic history will not land you anything at a HF. Come on man do you have any common sense. Do you even understand what HF's do? Don't get a PhD to make yourself more attractive in the job market because you will not make it through all those years of schooling. Have you even taken an intermediate micro or macro class before? Take an undergrad econometrics class (highly quant) and then see if you want to pursue an econ PhD. There is no magic bullet, no degree that will just make you attractive to any job in high finance unless you go work for a few years and get a top 10 MBA. Stop wasting your time trying to figure out what degree you need to get and go network bro. At least pick up a book and learn a little something about finance and the markets.

i'm guessing that someone with an extensive knowledge of market cycles throughout the course of civilization would at least have a role as a consultant of some sort of macroeconomic matters...

i realize that its going to take hard work and experience...i'm just trying to be smart here...and to have the best entry strategy possible.

p.s. - ive taken macro, micro and stats - easiest three a's of my life.

Since you got A's in intro classes so you think with a little hard work you can get a PhD? By the way intermediate micro/macro is not the same as intro to micro/macro. This topic is retarded. People have given you plenty of good advice and you just seem to shoot back with a new degree you would like to pursue in question. A degree will not get you a job on the street blue. You seem to lazy to pick up a phone and start hitting up alums, you just want the easy way out; as if some degree will just get recruiters lined up to talk to you. Doing what your doing, you will never make it into high finance.

Economic history is about as useless to a trader/ quant research team as a history PhD.

You might be able to have a shot with getting a role under the firm's chief Economist, but without a quantitative background, it's not going to help you anywhere else.

I've met a number of quants with Econ and CS PhDs, along with the typical math and physics. Haven't met any stats PhDs, but I'm sure they exist.

You seem to lazy to pick up a phone and start hitting up alums, you just want the easy way out; as if some degree will just get recruiters lined up to talk to you. Doing what your doing, you will never make it into high finance.

Every quant I've talked to says that they became a quant as a result of a huge five-year mistake. Reason I've talked to quants about this was that I came within inches of applying to Yale's econ PhD program with the intention of sitting out what I thought at the time would be the longest recession since 1935 and becoming a quant trader when I graduated. It took two guys in portfolio modeling to talk me out of it.

All of them will tell you, "Don't get a PhD unless you want to go into academia."

yes, i'm lazy because i'm taking the time to examine all of the possible entry options. thank you for your concern.

illini - could you go into more detail about why the phd quants said it was a mistake?

Well, it's five years of your life. By the time you graduate, your hair will be graying, your hairline will have changed, and you'll have spent all that time in an environment that's almost hostile to the notion of you going into industry.

Comments were something along the lines of:

-I spent five years slaving away on research when I could have been working in research and making some money or at least seeing the world. Instead, I was locked in a study carrel in Hyde Park.

-You can do this job with an MFE. Check out Tom over there- he got his from Columbia. If you change your mind, you can probably get some credit towards a PhD if you choose the right program.

-Being a PhD candidate who wants to go into industry at Princeton is being like a closeted Wiccan at the Southern Baptist Convention.

lololol

Thanks for the realistic heads up, IlliniProgrammer. I'm now convinced that I'm far better off working towards an MFE or MSc. in Financial Economics (fairly quantitative).

guys,

math isn't my favorite subject. i'm not a bad math student - in fact, i've never gotten lower than an a in any math class i've taken - but like i said, it's not my favorite subject. i don't think that i would really enjoy, or be any good, in a role as a quant in any industry.

i've read elsewhere that PhDs who know currencies and macroeconomics are in demand at hedge funds. is that true? i know that an economics phd is going to be tough with math, but its not the quant stuff i'd be dealing with in a phd in math, finance, stats...right?

An Econ PhD typically involves a MASSIVE amount of mathematics. In fact, Applied Math majors often have an easier time getting into Econ PhD programs than Econ grads for that very reason.

Currency modelling involves a great deal of mathematics and quantitative work, too. Know those supply/demand curves you studied? There's a lot of calculus and dify'qs that sit behind them.

You may very well deal with more applied math in an Econ PhD than you might in a theoretical Math PhD.

Sorry Blue. If you don't like math, you're not going to have much fun getting a PhD that will get you a job at a bank or hedge fund. That said, I hate unapplied math, but I find it really fun when talking about the economy, computer algorithms, or even unapplied physics. Then again, I'm a bit of a geek. :D

well, maybe the phd route just isn't for me then in regards to high-end finance, oh well.