Quota for International Students?
Hi I am an Australian student thinking of applying for business schools in the US. I am wondering if US schools have quotas on how many international students they should take each year, whether the quota is soft or 'hard'.
Alot of the schools boasts the diversity of their student background. Is that through conscious admission or just the result of their prestige?
Thanks for the clarification.
Davo
It would depend upon the school. Typically, the top business schools aim to fill a certain percentage of their class with foreign students - look at the class profiles of the schools you want to apply to and you'll get the idea. However, this would depend on how many international applications the schools receive, and how many students are qualified for admissions (I think last year international student applications were down, so the percentages at some schools would be lower).
Yeah, it's more of an informal quota - they don't have any actual cutoffs or anything of that sort, it's more like impromptu domestic/international quotas - based on # of applicants, quality, etc.
business school classes are over 1/3 comprised of international students. I don't think you need to be too worried. Of course, that being said, they'd prob not take 50% of that 1/3 class from australia, prob spread out nicely among countries...
Hi thanks for your responses. Another question regarding international student admission.
Do the admission officers have a good idea of the prestige of international universities/degrees? In Australia there isn't really a clear cut off in the tiers of different universities, unlike the US where there is the Ivy league and places like MIT. So just how do they differentiate international students who come from relatively unknown universities? Will they in that case place great emphasis on standardized test such as the GMAT?
Thanks in advance.
Davo.
If I recall, there are some better unis in australia, like U of Melbourne and Monash, in general. I think when i was considering australian universities, there was something known as a group of 8, which is like the ivies (analogous), but i might be wrong...
ZIRTH, yes you are right. there is a saying of 'group of 8' in Australia, which include some relatively well known universities such as Usyd, Umelb, Monash, UNSW etc. But it is definitely not as a big thing as the Ivies in the US.
I agree with most comments above. On average there seems to be the same amount of people from each country each year since each b-school strives for diversity in their incoming class. In terms of distinguishing between the candidates my personal belief is that your work experience and career track are the most important criteria. Remember that schools rankings are very depended on % of students employed at graduation, hence they are very focused on your 'intrinsic employability' upon graduation.
Our blog http://www.F1toH1.com is focused mostly on international students job-search issues but we also talk about business schools so you might want to check it out.
International student visa quota (Originally Posted: 02/23/2008)
I have benefited alot from this place. Please help me on a tough decision now. Your insights are greatly appreciated. I will be interning in IB this summer and will graduate in 09. International students need to apply for H1B in order to work in the US after graduation. The chance of getting it next year, I would say 10-20%. So if I can't get it, I will be forced to leave the US after in the middle of the 2-yr analyst program. 4 friends are facing this probram, at ML, UBS, CS and LB. Now,I have another option. I can graduate with a master program 1 semester later. If I do so, the chance of getting the H1B will be about 90-100%, because advanced degrees have a seperate quota/pool. So, should i do the master or just graduate on time? For the master program (financial engineering): The pros: 1)higher chance of completing the analyst program in the US, which is good for advancement and also PE/VC post analyst. 2)Friends are all here in the US, I certainly don't want to be kicked out. 3)have a master degree The cons: 1) My senior year is ruined: have to start the heavy coursework earlier and can't do fun stuff 2) have to negotiate with the BB to get a deferred FT offer. 3) I have to pay the master cost, cuz the undergrad fin aid will be cut 4) I don't want to be a quant person, fin engineering program seems useless to me.
So, i guess the general question is How important is it to finish the 2-year program without interruption in the US? and How likely will the bank give out a deferred FT? I really appreciate any input, as I have to make the decision within 2 days for the program app. THANK YOU!
I will be pretty frank about this matter. Getting a H1 Visa is now is very difficult especially since the number of people applying is greater. Getting a masters degree puts you in a better position for obtaining a H1 Visa. Another option you have is to work in either Hong Kong or London, both great places, have similar compensation to the United States. The whole getting kicked out thing is now a big deal with investment banks in the US. They are now more reluctant to sponsor international students, because it's a hassle to put out an advertisement and all. Also, the H1 system is a lottery system and has nothing to do with who is more qualified or not, so you have to be pretty lucky. My suggestion to you is to try and ask your firm to place you in either Hong Kong or London for the first year of your analyst stint and then transfer via L1 Visa as the provision for this is much larger with fewer applicants. Banks usually do not give deferred programs in my understanding. I was in a similar situation to you which is why I have taken a position abroad with a BB instead of the United States. If indeed you wish to continue on your OPT and something happens in the middle of the two year stint, then I think that bank will transfer you abroad, provided the bank you are working for has offices in other countries. But then again, that would also suck big time because you would have to catch up on new stuff and all. So basically, my suggestion is to try and get placed abroad or if you have one of those combined masters programs, that you can do in a year, then do that even if it doesn't apply just so you have a good chance of getting a Visa.
How does one tackle this issue though? Interviewrs obviously know what your Visa situation is and may be reluctant to hire you in the first place, let alone thinking about asking them to transfer you. To the original poster; while you were interviewing for the SA position, did any of the banks ask you about your Visa situation?
Thank you, godofsmallthings. (Thank God!) I am now considering graduate 1 semester earlier and finish the master by summer next year. However, that master program is even more useless. To Chad17, some banks are reluctant to take internationals. the ones that asked me about my international student status all rejected me during that round. I think, tho, you can still get into SA in BBs if they like you very much/meet someone who doesn't know the whole H1B thing. After all, the ones making decisions are the recruiting teams/bankers, not HRs.
"Banks usually do not give deferred programs in my understanding." even for 1 semester?
My advice to you is, don't rasie the issue of procuring a full time offer as an international student during the summer program. Once you get the job after the summer program, ask them if there is any room for deferment. At that point, they will be more likely to negotiate. All I can say, is don't worry, and talk to your international center at school, as they have immigration lawyers working for them who can give you plenty of advice to try and convert your OPT to H1.
I was in a similar situation that you are in now. During a sell-lunch, I spoke with one of my friends/school-alumni at a bank about deferment for 1 semester (in order to complete a Masters). Head of HR was also at the table and overheard; she immediately told me that the FT offer from SA is strictly for the following year. I think exceptions are rare. I decided not to pursue the Masters.
do the masters program
Thank you, b and unct91. So, i take these as facts: 1) Deferments are rare for Corp Fin SAs 2) Doing a masters helps. 3) applying for master doesn't hurt
So I will apply for the crappy non-finance master and gradudate on time. Even if I can't apply for H1B using the Master cap next year, I can still boost my 2nd shot in the following year.
Man, this is painful. my fun senior year is gone! And I was thinking about applyging to Harvard 2+2. But I guess I just shouldn't add more complication... Life sux for intls.
If you have a million dollars that you can invest in something, then you can always apply for a greencard under investment-based immigration.....and my mom's lawyer says you can get a work permit once you've applied for a greencard. Too bad you can't apply for a greencard straight from an F1.
Just kidding.
"We are lawyers! We sue people! Occasionally, we get aggressive and garnish wages, but WE DO NOT ABDUCT!" -Boston Legal-
lol. Nope, don have that million. I could find a US citizen and get married here. Or I can just get my gf pregnant and have a child this year. hmm..that would work. lol
I still have a bottom line. I am not like desperately trying to stay in the US forever. It's just M&A, P/E, VC and Consulting are more interesting here in the US than elsewhere.
I've seen this problem with a lot of international friends in the industry before as well.
Some people solved it by going to work abroad in London, Hong Kong, or other cities. Other friends did what you did and did the Master's degree to increase chances of getting the Visa.
Bottom line is, don't just jump into the analyst program without solving this issue or assume you can defer for a year. I actually know of someone at a bulge bracket who was forced to leave his office and transfer to an international location in the middle of the year because of this issue - you don't want that to happen.
I have seen some people defer for a year, but it's rare and usually for reasons other than Visa issues.
I think your best bet is to go for the Master's program - yes you do waste some time and it may hurt you short term, but long term it is extremely valuable to finish the analyst role in the US.
You could go for an international location as well, but I would not bother unless you have the option of London or Hong Kong.
Thank you very much. I guess my last question would be: Does having a master(not a prestigious program) negatively affect my application into MBA program, say HBS, Wharton or sth later? Because I def want to get the network/career switch later. One of my mentors says it does not make much asnse for MBA, esp top ones to take someone who already has business-related masters degree, not to mention BA and Master from the same school. Thanks.
for b-school it's all about how you craft your story. just be able to state succinctly why you chose to do what you did.
Just go back to your country to work. These laws are in place for a reason and thats because you are not needed here. So go home and make your own country a better place.
Other countries don't pay as well as the United States, with the exception of London, Hong Kong and Singapore.
This statement is very misleading. Firstly, locations you mentioned pay above US level (especially on a net of tax level). Secondly, there are other locations where pay is at or above US level. Though, it is definitely true that in those locations (especially if we exclude London), number of spots is ridiculously small compared to USA. But pay is higher for those few who get lucky.
elijahoo, i bet you can say that to your grandparents who moved from Eastern Europe too, huh?
Go work in other country instead of US. Less Visa problems, and higher pay.
Work in London/HK for a few yeras, go back to the US for an MBA and then try your hand again
I was not talking about Canada. Actually, I don't believe there may be reasons for such a case be present for Canada, given the world is fastly moving from West towards the East.
...but cannot afford another year in school. I will graduate (undergraduate) in december.
Is H-1 ALWAYS on a lottery basis???
If so, would Canada be a good alternative in case I cannot get the Visa? I'll be interviewing with Scotia Waterous next week (SA position), should I mention my interest in working for their Canadian office straight away?
How different are the requirements for a position in London for example? (HK they require mandarin most of the times)
Extra info: My Visa expires May 09. I go to a non-target, but am top of my class (3.99 cumulative / 4.0 in both my Majors). A lot of extra-curricular stuff.
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