Rank these graduate programs for IB opportunities

Based on your list, I would say Duke (brand name even though the program is new), nova, jhu, depaul. If you don't have a preference for location, take a look at Boston College or MIT. Might be a bit bias b/c I'm from the Boston area, but both programs would open more doors for you then the programs you listed (duke might be an exception)...just my two cent

Duke has great name brand, but very new program (this might be the 1st or 2nd year of existence)

Boston if you want to work in Boston or a shot in NYC

Villanova if you want to work in Philly or NYC

John Hopkins if you like the DC area

Additionally, the BC program is at night so you can work during the day or intern. Your classes will be with MBA's so make your decision on how you feel the MBA finance classes will be.

Villanova MSF classes are only for MSF students so the finance you will learn will be more in depth, higher level, etc.

Duke is more management focused so you will be going for the name on the degree primarily.

None of those places are going to have better recruiting than you did as a Michigan undergrad, there are tons of UMich people on the street. My guess is that Duke would give you the best shot out of those choices.

DePaul MSF Never heard of that program

Johns Hopkins MSF Part-time, so be careful

Duke MMS Is probably your best choice.

Also I'd recommend considering M.Sc. Commerce from McIntire (UVA)

Thanks!

It seems like from my list, Duke MMS and Villanova MSF are the preferred choices. I don't have the stats to get into MIT or BC (I think BC requires some work experience, too).

My GPA was a 3.3, and the GMAT I will likely score in the low to mid 600s. Since most schools deadlines have passed, it's tough finding a school with a decent name, placement, and that I can get accepted to. That's partly how I came up with my list.

Based on what I saw of Nova's placement data, they actually seem to do really well. Several students got jobs at bulge bracket banks, and others found analyst positions at other banks. Aside from that, many students seemed to get "good" finance jobs, even if it wasn't IB.

Since Duke MMS is new, I haven't been able to find any information on who recruits there, and of course there is no placement data yet. I agree their brand name is great, but if the program is new and isn't heavily recruited, I could find myself in a bad spot again. The problem I had with UM was that I was an Econ major, and didn't have the same access to recruiters as the business school kids. Not to blame all my problems on that or the economy, as I certainly made more than my share of mistakes along the way, but for grad schools I really am trying to make sure I have better access to recruiting and a program with good placement.

M.Sc. Commerce from McIntire I am ineligible due to my graduation date (seems like they want a specific type of student, and anyone who has received a degree before August 2009 is not eligible for the program).

Just not sure what to do. I've tried to find something outside of IB as well, but have come up empty. Maybe finding something unpaid or continuing to try and get something outside of IB but still finance related? Or is grad school my best option out of everything?

tbm24,

The Duke MMS program has access to the same recruiters that Duke University as a whole has (heard this from a person in the program).

Although this years class didn't have complete access to the recruiting system, next years class will (and most banks recruited there this year anyway).

To give you an idea of the banks that show up to Duke, here is a partial list (from fall 2009, keep in mind this wasn't a great year):

Bank of America Barclays Blackrock Blackstone Credit Suisse Deutsche Bank Goldman Sachs JP Morgan Lazard Macquarie Morgan Stanley Piper Jaffray Raymond James RBC RBS UBS Wells Fargo

All of these had on campus interviews for either SA or FT position (front office). Unfortunately I don't have much information on the other programs, but hopefully this will help in your decision making process.

Duke or Nova

Macro,

     Yeah, you are right. Michigan has a really solid base. As good is not better than all of the other options. 

As far as Duke goes, I would be weary of thinking that recruiters coming for undergrad or MBA's will look at a MMS the same way. If having access to these recruiters is the only goal I think networking and spending some time on LinkedIn would be a much cheaper alternative.

OP, have you thought of going to an Ivy school and getting a masters in whatever. That will probably have the same results.

Duke has a 1 week mandatory orientation in July... That's one thing that is really f@#$ked up with the program.

In long-run Duke MMS will get its recognition and will be very competitive.

Food for thought:

Who Should Attend

MMS: Foundations of Business is for individuals without previous business training and experience who may have recently earned an undergraduate or graduate degree (even those in the process of obtaining a PhD) in areas including liberal arts, science, or engineering. The program combines the depth, breadth, and critical thinking skills from the liberal arts and sciences with fundamental business skills to position you to take on a variety of roles in your professional life. The program provides the necessary know-how to leverage your existing capabilities, and will help you jump start a career in business.

Costs: 41,500

Class Make up:

Liberal Arts 55% Economics 17% Engineering/Natural Sciences 16% Business and Accounting 7% Other 5%

If you are going to look at the Duke program then look at UVA MS Commerce. Great school, solid recruiting and you might learn something also.

tbm,

From what I am hearing, Duke is changing the curriculum and will no longer start in the Fall, but actually have one summer term. This will probably be even better for those thinking of attending because for the same cost you will have 15 courses over 5 terms (of 6 weeks each).

The summer term will allow students to be better prepared for the job search and will give you accounting and business quant courses.

As for the average GMAT/GRE it was not required for the inaugural class, but again from people I know they say that they haven't heard of a score less than 700 and the high is about 750-60 (GMAT). Of course that isn't to say that there aren't scores less than 700 (I'm sure there are many), I'm guessing most of the people they have asked only gave answers if they had good scores, so take it with a grain of salt.

I think that because you are coming from a good undergrad, the MMS program (or any other MFin or MComm) will help you land interviews. If you were coming from a "worse" school (basically a school without much national recognition) then I would tell you that 1 year probably won't improve your chances, but Michigan + Duke or UVA should help you stand out.

Duke MMS Course Description:

Course Schedule

Summer Term I

* Financial Accounting  (3 Credits)
* Fundamentals of Business Communications I (2 credits)
* Fundamentals of Quantitative Business Skills (3 credits) 

Fall Term I

* Strategy (3 credits)
* Business Economics (3 credits)
* Marketing Analysis (3 credits) 

Fall Term II

* Fundamentals of Business Communications II (2 credits)
* Supply Chain Management (3 credits)
* Investments and Financial Markets (3 credits) 

Spring Term I

* Corporate Finance (3 credits)
* Marketing Intelligence (3 credits)
* Managerial Accounting (3 credits) 

Spring Term II

* Financial Analysis (3 credits)
* Management and Organizations (3 credits)
* Decision Models (3 credits) 

MBA light.

Dude, more school and a bullshit degree isn't going to do the trick. Get some experience in finance any way you can. Kick ass at your job. Study for GMAT, kick ass on that. Apply to top 5 MBA programs (undergrad at UMich is an excellent background for this track), get in, do summer internship and enter an Ibank as an Associate. Getting an MSF is only going to hurt you by taking away from time you could be gaining valuable work experience.

The "problem" with an MSF is recruiters and banks really don't know what to do with you. MSF used to be a Pre-PhD academic type degree. Today you are seeing more schools coming out with the degree or promoting it more as a way to get more revenue from students. You really need to do your research if you are going with the degree because of the different factors and nuances associated with a non MBA graduate degree.

A lot of schools simply make students take 30 credits of MBA finance and then award the degree. This is the most simple way for them to add the degree to their roster. Problem is MBA finance tends to be watered down because of the variety of undergraduate majors in a MBA program. The schools with extremely rigorous or higher level MBA finance classes also tend not to have MSF degree's (this is changing with Princeton and MIT offering a MSF).

MSF (or MAC) are really good for individuals looking for A) a deeper understanding of their particular field B) wants more options, but is not ready for an MBA and C) is looking for another shot at recruiting, additional network and alumni base.

I would be hesitant to recommend someone go into one of these programs if all they care about is one more year to recruit. Graduate level finance and accounting is a lot harder and demanding than an undergraduate degree. In order to be competitive in recruiting you will need to be a strong student and quite frankly, if you didn't get the job done in undergraduate you sure as hell better be committed because grad isn't going to be any easier. Worst thing you want to do is spend the money for a grad degree and still have nothing to show for it.