Comments (166)

Feb 24, 2011

You should PM ANT. He knows all things Villanova and MSF/MBA.

Jul 31, 2012

he offered a lot insight info

Jul 31, 2012

I sent him a PM with a link to this post. Also, here's the link to his website's overview of the Villanova MSF:

http://msfhq.com/villanova/
and 2011 placements: http://msfhq.com/villanova-master-in-finance-2012-...

Feb 18, 2015

Hate to bump a thread this old, but I'm looking to see if anyone on here knows anything about Villanova's Fellowship program.

I'm not 100% keen on it due to the stigma associated with "part time" programs, but the fellows are full time during the year with space to pursue an internship during the summer.

Feb 18, 2015

Villanovas MBA program is PT. I wouldn't use it for job changing or anything finance related placements.

Feb 18, 2015

What about the fellows? That program specifically says that you aren't allowed to hold full time employment while you're enrolled in it.

Feb 18, 2015
Easy C:

What about the fellows? That program specifically says that you aren't allowed to hold full time employment while you're enrolled in it.

You are doing research and getting paid to do it. So they don't want you double dipping I suppose. That being said, it isn't an MBA program you would want to use to try and break into banking or anything like that. Look for a T20 FT program.

Feb 20, 2015

Nova has solid ny placements , even better than vandy. 96% found jobs in North America with majority in ny. If you're an international, it's an ideal program provided you don't just rely on nova brand to get you a job

Feb 20, 2015

ANT is definitely a good person to get to know. I'm sure he'll reply in this thread but you definitely ought to take some initiative and PM him for sure.

Feb 20, 2015

If you haven't already, also check out MSFHQ.COM. ANT has covered some of your questions on his site, but the rest I'd be interested in as well.

Feb 20, 2015

Let's have the discussion out in the open so everyone can gain insight.

Best Response
Feb 20, 2015

Ok, sorry, long day.

1) Trader/HF/IM

- Being a trader is a possibility. Historically, we have few traders. I think of the 100 alumni, maybe 6 or so are in <span class='keyword_link'><a href="/finance-dictionary/trading-overview">trading</a></span>. A lot of the UG's I know are going into <span class='keyword_link'><a href="/finance-dictionary/what-is-the-bulge-bracket-BB"><abbr title="bulge bracket

">BB trading so we def have the alumni and recruiting power to get you there, I just think banking tends to be the focus.

The professor who teaches fixed income used to trade at Goldman. We just had a team of <abbr title="Masters in Finance

">MSF students go to Toronto for the Rotman trading comp. I was on the CME Commodities Trading comp team last year. We have a ton of alumni in trading on the street. Long story short, if you want to be a trader and you come in with that mindset, you can do it. We have the tools, rest is up to you.

As far as <abbr title="on campus recruiting

">OCR for trading, it is more focused on the UG level, but MS and JPM (off the top of my head) take SA's and UG for S&T programs. I have UG Nova friends at JPM, DB, BarCap, MS, etc. All S&T roles. Oh, UBS also, forgot.

As for <abbr title="hedge fund

">HF, that is a long shot. A lot of us going right into PE shops, but banking and F500 tend to be the main exit point. HF down the road maybe, but I don't think you will find too many MSF programs putting people into HF's.

2) Trips

- We go to <abbr title="New York City

">NYC towards the end of the summer break. My class had another trip in Philly for some local banks. Nothing in Chicago. We're sending people to Toronto though for this trading comp. Every year we go to a finance conference as a group. I went to RISE X in Dayton last year. Going to GAME in Quinnipiac University this year.

You are an hour from <abbr title="New York City

">NYC, 1.5 from DC, 10 minutes from city center Philly. Like 4-5 hours from Boston. Basically within 5 hours from most major cities on the eastern seaboard. You can get to Pittsburgh and Ohio within a days drive. Not bad coverage. It costs about 10 bucks on the bolt bus also.

I live in Philly and go to <abbr title="New York City

">NYC maybe 3 times a month. Sometimes more.

Philadelphia is also a pretty decent finance hub. I would say on par with Boston, not equal in every area, but good enough. <span class='keyword_link'><a href="/forums/harris-williams-0">Harris Williams</a></span>, <span class='keyword_link'><a href="/company/stifel-nicolaus-and-company-inc">Stifel</a></span>, Janney, <span class='keyword_link'><a href="/company/pnc-financial-services">PNC</a></span>, <span class='keyword_link'><a href="/company/royal-bank-of-scotland"><abbr title="Royal Bank of Scotland

">RBS Citizens, etc. Tons of boutique shops. JPM and BoA-ML have S&T here. Goldman has a nice office here (mostly GWM or AM). Citi has public finance and S&T here.

The big thing is internships. Tons of firms to intern in. You hop on the train and bam, your in a major city and interning. I interned at 3 places when I was going to school and it helped immensely.

3) Recruiting

- <abbr title="on campus recruiting

">OCR is decent. The UG's have it best though. You get mainly MM IBD, lot of MO and BO, tons of F500 rotational programs and some boutique PE. Real estate is big at Nova so if you are interested in that there are plenty of places to get your foot in the door. One of the MSF professors is the head of the RE foundation.

Nova is a 20th ranked UG business school. I know that ranking gets shit on, but it is pretty good to have it all the same. It was 10th when I went there, but took a big hit with Bear and Lehman going under.

4) Living

- Ok, you can live in Philly if you want. Some people do that. I am splitting a place now for 600 a month plus utilities. Nice digs, good area. You're going to have to spend 130 a month on a 3 zone train pass to get you to Nova. Nice thing is it is good all over so you can take the subway and regional rail as much as you want. It takes about 20 minutes to go from center city to Nova so it is doable.

- I am moving to a sick loft in the city. Dead center. Little over 1300 a month. Place is nice though. If you want to live alone you can, but budget for it.

- You can also live near Nova, called the main line. Lots of places. My friend paid 700 bucks for a one bedroom. Walking distance to Nova.

4) Fellowship

- You are assigned to an <abbr title="Masters in Finance

">MSF professor to help them with research. It is a pretty prestigious position. I was an MBA fellow and did some research with an MSF professor. Pretty cool. Definitely something to put on your resume and talk about. It's an honor and congrats if you can get it.

5) Social Scene.

- Nova is full of hot tail dude. The UG's are your main focus since <abbr title="Masters in Finance

">MSF classes tend to be mostly men. It is a sorority and frat dominated campus, but if you are cool you can make friends. I know a shit ton of undergrads and really respect them. Nova kids know their shit so make sure you know yours.

Long story short, hot girls and some cool college bars. Philly has some nice bars also. Depends what you are looking for and how you are.

Here is my little take on things.

The Villanova MSF is really gaining momentum. The whole school is going to revamp their website and it will happen in the near future. That will really make the MSF site more visually appealing. Placements are solid and improving. We have new staff in the grad office which is breathing fresh air into things. Alumni are enthusiastic and loyal.

And of course you have me, whom you will meet if you attend. I am always on campus for one thing or another. I send out jobs, put people in connection with alumni or my network and drink with you guys. I just sent out a pretty decent MO position with RBC that I got sent to me from my Syracuse connections. Not FO, but it was an immediate hire. I am always trying to help get the message out, link up with recruiters, advance the MSF cause.

If anyone else has Nova questions, feel free to ask away.

  • Thurman Merman
  •  Feb 20, 2015
ANT:

3) Recruiting

- <abbr title="on campus recruiting

">OCR is decent. The UG's have it best though. You get mainly MM IBD, lot of MO and BO, tons of F500 rotational programs and some boutique PE. Real estate is big at Nova so if you are interested in that there are plenty of places to get your foot in the door. One of the MSF professors is the head of the RE foundation.

GOOD stuff ANT, +1.

You mentioned UG's have it best and then go on to list "MM IBD, lot of MO and BO, tons of F500 rotational programs and some boutique PE, RE." So does this mean these places are only recruiting UG's with a few exceptions? You said MSF competes with UG's, so could you clear this up for me?

Also, what is your take on someone with ~1 yr of work experience (BB PWM) going back to get an MSF. How does admissions view this and more importantly, how do employers view this during recruiting?

Feb 20, 2015

ANT, when you have time could you please write a comprehensive response. Thanks.

If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses - Henry Ford

Feb 20, 2015

Hahah fuck you lol

Feb 20, 2015

Seconded on the girls at Nova point. One of the few big things I always regret about not taking Nova when I could've. Has a rep in the state for girls with enough brains to go somewhere smart without being ugly, i.e. state school girls who aren't retarded.

sigh

Feb 20, 2015

Agree. Within the school they have the equity society which is very hard to get into. I know many of the members and have the highest respect for then. Females included.

Feb 20, 2015

Hey ANT. Thanks for the input. If you don't mind my asking....what was your gmat score?

Feb 20, 2015

Lol no comment. It sucked though. My WE and volunteer work ruled the say though.

Feb 20, 2015

Anyone know the application deadline dates for Nova's MSF program? I can't find it on their website.

Also when is their official start date for classes? I have an internship from April-June, I think this may interfere with their summer start session.

Feb 20, 2015

Deadline is March 31st. I believe the program starts towards the end of May.

Feb 20, 2015

ANT, you have discussed trading, MO/BO roles at banks, but what about traditional M&A roles or corporate finance at F500s? Are there good opportunities for that at 'Nova? Also, you mentioned MM PE shops, but how many students actually get into places like that?

Feb 20, 2015

ANT, to whom should my recommenders address my letters of recommendation for the MSF and the MSF Fellows application at Villanova? Thanks.

Feb 20, 2015
TraderDaily:

ANT, to whom should my recommenders address my letters of recommendation for the MSF and the MSF Fellows application at Villanova? Thanks.

I'd suggest making a profile on their website. The recs are more like surveys than letters, you can download a pdf if you register.

PM me and I can send you a copy if you wish.

Feb 20, 2015

Thanks Kimbo. Sorry for not replying myself, so exhausted.

Feb 20, 2015

Reading this thread has me ready to get up and move to Philly.

Feb 20, 2015

Lol it's a cool city. Def has it's bas parts, but not as bad as people make it out to be. I had never been to the city before Nova and it has grown on me a lot.

Feb 20, 2015

ANT, I'm surprised how investments-geared the curriculum is given that you say many students go into IB and F500. Given that Vanderbilt and WUSTL have added corporate finance specialties, does Nova have any plans to add any intermediate accounting and/or corporate finance classes to the curriculum? I know there's an "applied corporate finance" class but the description says it's applied to "investment banking" which isn't the same "pure" corporate finance, if you will. I know most everyone's concern is recruiting, but it's a degree so I think it's reasonable to care about academics too. I'm really hoping to be able to study intermediate accounting, FP&A, capital budgeting, etc...

Feb 20, 2015

The program is always changing and evolving so I don't want to say that you wont see these classes added, but I can't see it happening. Honestly, once you go down that road, you stop being an MSF and start being more of a focused MBA for people without work experience.

The MSF at Villanova is really a pure finance MSF. It is very applied in nature, breaking away from the pure academic roots. That corporate finance class you have in the fall is probably one of the best classes I have ever taken. It is taught by a great professor (she is extremely well published) and really focuses on LBO modeling and all the rational and process behind this.

When it comes to F500 recruiting, I don't think you need special classes focused on this. Most people who work in F500 have accounting/finance undergrads or MBA's. Neither degrees really get that into the nitty gritty of these subjects.

Feb 20, 2015

ANT, I very respectfully disagree with you. I don't want to do corporate finance professionally but think it's an important area. I'll give you an SB for each one of these you respond to, with 2 extra bonus SBs if you choose all of them! I'm extremely interested in Nova, finishing up my application.

1) It's not remotely fair to say it's straying from an MSF if, say, just two more classes are geared towards corporate finance. It's a very major area of finance. An intro to finance class is usually mostly comprised of corporate finance. At least ONE course deserves to be pure corporate finance (apparently the "applied corporate finance" is not). Heck, there seems to be TWO student investment fund courses. OK that's technically not a question, I'm just sayin'.

2) Why not create an OPTIONAL corporate finance track by swapping 2 current courses with an intermediate accounting class and a corporate finance class covering capital budgeting, FP&A, etc - that's a very, very reasonable request. corporate finance is still finance, and even if you think otherwise, it'd still be a "specialized" track, 2 out of 10 classes isn't a massive change.

3) Vanderbilt and WUSTL have done it, though we don't know exactly what WUSTL's will look like. Those are great programs. They + Nova seem to be very popular, some might say the "big three" of the "tier 2" US MSFs after Princeton and MIT. Why wouldn't Nova want to offer it as well? It would be easy to add and could help Nova compete. C'mon, you gotta admit it...

4) If absolutely nothing like this is being planned for the upcoming year (which I assume is the case), is there any way to take a little more corporate finance and/or intermediate accounting? Maybe swap out an MSF course for an undergrad or MBA course? What if you were an analyst for your undergrad student fund - could you swap out a semester/quarter of the Nova student fund? Or, at the very least, add an MBA or undergrad course on top of the full MSF course load?

Thanks for any input. I feel like you've covered recruiting, but I'm quite a finance nerd here. I don't want to enter corp fin/accounting, but (obviously) I'd love to be able cover them some. Got lots of SBs, too, ha.

Feb 20, 2015

1) The two student fund classes are really portfolio theory classes. You can't break them up because of the nature of the class. Maybe I am not getting what is in a traditional corp finance class, let me know and I can tell you if we have it in another class.

2) What Villanova does is a little different than other schools. We have a lock step cohort. There are pros and cons with this, but I liked it and think it is a good way to do it. The school probably could do what you ask, but it isn't feasible at this point. The schools that offer these classes have more loose program. They utilize MBA classes to fill these classes.

3) Maybe in the future. My cohort was the first one with Fixed Income. We used to have an alternative investments class. We had a pure stats class in my year, that was swapped for an econometrics and research methods class. As I said, program is always evolving so it is a real possibility.

4) You could probably arrange for taking an extra class. It would be easy since all the MBA classes are at night. As for swapping out of a required MSF class, aint happening.

If you want to do F500 finance, you can do it without taking int accounting and FP&A. Honestly, we don't have a strong F500 placement because a lot of kids just don't go that route. If you want to do F500, you really can go wild since it is an over looked area. Trust me, you will get the job without knowing intermediate accounting.

On a side note, while the MSF at Villanova doesn't have an accounting class, you use a shit ton of accounting. In the summer semester valuation class you really get to know the ins and outs of accounting. In corporate finance you learn a lot about various accounting methods. In Financial Institutions during the fall you learn about banking financial statements, ratios, analyzing methods, etc.

Throughout the whole program you are dealing with accounting practices. Now if this a full Int accounting class, maybe not. But you are using a lot of accounting and gaining a lot of knowledge.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporate_finance
You do a lot of IRR, NPV, EVA, etc in the corp finance class. It just has more of a LBO tilt to it.

Trust me, recruiters will love you with an MSF. GE, J&J, Proctor Gamble, Rolls Royce, etc are all on campus. If you want to work at Comcast, any of the Pharma companies, Siemens, any of the Big 4 accounting firms, etc you can do it from Nova.

This year we placed like 4 or more people at Big 4 in their valuation or transactional services groups. D&P is on campus also (we have MSF alumni there).

Feb 20, 2015
ANT:

Maybe I am not getting what is in a traditional corp finance class, let me know and I can tell you if we have it in another class.

4) You could probably arrange for taking an extra class. It would be easy since all the MBA classes are at night. As for swapping out of a required MSF class, aint happening.

You do a lot of IRR, NPV, EVA, etc in the corp finance class. It just has more of a LBO tilt to it.

Thanks so much man. Sitch just blew you up with SBs like he blows up grenades.

By corporate finance, I'm mainly talking about capital budgeting and FP&A/corporate budgeting. The MAC's online course description of Applied corporate finance sounds much closer to that stuff than the description on the MSF page.

Hopefully I can take a couple MAC classes... I don't know if they're at night, but Nova's website mentions some kind of option allowing "non accounting majors" to take MAC classes through the Office of Part Time Studies, not sure exactly what that involves...

Feb 20, 2015

I'm sold on Villanova....I'm going there for my MSF.

Feb 20, 2015
TraderDaily:

I'm sold on Villanova....I'm going there for my MSF.

That was easy.

Feb 20, 2015

ANT, how helpful was Villanova in terms of getting you your jobs? Any pointers that you could recommend in terms of navigating well with Career Services?

Feb 20, 2015

As soon as you get there, set up and get familiar with the career website. You will see recruiting opportunities towards the end of the summer. I would start looking at linkedin now, getting a feel for the alumni lay out. I can help you get comfortable with the Philly scene also. Get access to the alumni network as soon as possible. Make sure your resume is polished. I'll be working to get past MSF alumni more involved.

You will be seeing me during your first week on campus most likely. I was supposed to be on the welcoming panel last year, but couldn't attend. I'll be there this year for sure.

Feb 20, 2015

Oh OK Thanks ANT. Sorry for the duplicative PM Anthony.

Feb 20, 2015

No worrIes

Feb 20, 2015

Nova has a pretty interesting Macc program so I am sure you can work something out. I think you will be pleasantly surprised once you start with the program.

Feb 20, 2015

Today, I am speaking to Meredith Kwiatek, Asst. Director of Admission for the MSF Program. On tomorrow, I will post the transcribed results of the interview on here....

Feb 20, 2015

No, you're not too old. Plus you served and have ECs. I wouldn't worry, good luck.

Here to learn and hopefully pass on some knowledge as well. SB if I helped.

Feb 20, 2015

With 6 years of experience you would be older than the majority of the other students. In this years class about half are straight out of undergrad, and the other half have around 2 years of experience. But with that said, I don't think there's an age restriction. The only problem you might potentially face is recruiters asking you why an MSF instead of an MBA, since with 6 years of experience, people typically pursue MBA degrees.

Feb 20, 2015

Why not an MBA?

Feb 20, 2015

Thanks for the feedback.

I am considering an MBA but I have several concerns. First, my undergrad and work experience lack brand. Assuming a 700+ GMAT, I think brand may preclude me from even a top 15-20 program. Similarly, my GPA (2.8) was low. No excuses here, although I was heavily involved with ECs. Finally, some programs only consider post baccalaureate WE. Since my military experience was prior to undergrad, I would only be a candidate with ~3 years post baccalaureate WE at matriculation. I think if I completed an MSF, earned a solid gig, and needed an MBA down the line; I would be more competitive.

Money is always a factor so a brief word on that. My current salary is nothing stellar. If I earned a post MSF starting salary in the mid 5 figures, I'd be happy. Fortunately, I do have govt' money available for tuition. So, I could likely earn the MSF for <$10k; I think that's a solid ROI.

Feb 20, 2015

You would be older, but not the oldest, nor too old. Why not an MBA though? If you get an MSF you could use that as an MBA substitute for F500 type roles. ER I am not sure, but you have some experience and the MSF might give you credibility, similar to a CFA.

Nova also has a 1+1 MSF->MBA program. You might not want a Nova MBA, but you could probably take some MBA classes to fill in the gaps. PM me if you'd like to talk off line.

Feb 20, 2015
TNA:

You would be older, but not the oldest, nor too old. Why not an MBA though? If you get an MSF you could use that as an MBA substitute for F500 type roles. ER I am not sure, but you have some experience and the MSF might give you credibility, similar to a CFA.

Nova also has a 1+1 MSF->MBA program. You might not want a Nova MBA, but you could probably take some MBA classes to fill in the gaps. PM me if you'd like to talk off line.

Ant,
Tried PMing you, but was blocked due to limited banana points. Would you mind PMing me; I assume if I have an inbound msg I can respond. Sorry for the inconvenience.

Feb 20, 2015

Nova vs. Indian food which is better?

Go.

If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses - Henry Ford

Feb 20, 2015

Ekta, up the main line, amazing Indian food.

Feb 20, 2015
  1. MSF vs. CFA
  2. MSF vs. CQF (7City)
  3. MSF vs. MFE
  4. MSF. vs MBA
  5. MSF. vs 3 readings each of Margin of Safety, Securities Analysis, When Genius Failed, House of Cards, The Black Swan, Damn it Feels Good to be Banker and Other Baller Things You Only Get to Say if You Work on Wall Street, The Big Short, Liars Poker, Too Big Too Fail and House of Cards

Also, rate in order of usefulness to working in Banking and or P/E.

Feb 20, 2015
PinnacleMan:

1. MSF vs. CFA
2. MSF vs. CQF (7City)
3. MSF vs. MFE
4. MSF. vs MBA
5. MSF. vs 3 readings each of Margin of Safety, Securities Analysis, When Genius Failed, House of Cards, The Black Swan, Damn it Feels Good to be Banker and Other Baller Things You Only Get to Say if You Work on Wall Street, The Big Short, Liars Poker, Too Big Too Fail and House of Cards

Also, rate in order of usefulness to working in Banking and or P/E.

1) CFA is much more in depth than the MSF, but is really only relevant for Asset Management or ER. The MSF touches on parts of all three levels of the CFA, but has more industry relevant material. MSF puts you into banking, trading, ER, F500, whatever. 1 year vs 3 (at a minimum).

2) The CQF is a quant cert. I've read on quantnet that the cert is pretty well respected, but doesn't make up for an MFE. I would rank it below and MSF and an MFE.

3)MFE is for quant positions. MSF is more general. Simple as that.

4)MSF is highly specialized, MBA is more generalize. MSF is acceptable for people with no experience, MBA is not. MSF will put you in an analyst role (generally) and an MBA will put you in as an associate. Both are great and people sometimes get both, but they are for people at different points in their lives.

Feb 20, 2015

Margin of Safety is easily my personal favorite out of those. got a copy i just read whenever i run out of other things to read

Feb 20, 2015
PTS:

Margin of Safety is easily my personal favorite out of those. got a copy i just read whenever i run out of other things to read

Margin of Safety is epic (btw how did you get your copy? I got PDF from a friend). Right now I'm reading Moneyball by Michael Lewis and I got some Peter Schiff lined up after that.

Feb 20, 2015

A question - how guys you think you can rank MSF compared with MBA and its career prospects. What career opportunities can a MSF guy expect?

Tough question; :-P Tough to answer ...

Curious to know though ...

Thanks,

Amitava

Feb 20, 2015

Your best bet is to keep working and do a T10 MBA and come in as an associate. Having a MS in risk and working for a cat insurer is enough quant. The CFA is going to be a killer with work. I would just focus on networking and your job and do an MBA in 3-4 years.

Banking really isn't that great. You can make a ton of money in the industry you are in right now. Bloomberg Business week has a nice article on Cat insurance. Check it out.

Feb 20, 2015
ANT:

Your best bet is to keep working and do a T10 MBA and come in as an associate. Having a MS in risk and working for a cat insurer is enough quant. The CFA is going to be a killer with work. I would just focus on networking and your job and do an MBA in 3-4 years.

Banking really isn't that great. You can make a ton of money in the industry you are in right now. Bloomberg Business week has a nice article on Cat insurance. Check it out.

Really? That kind of just goes against everything I've ever been told or told to work towards - the endgame has always been IB and coming from a non-target, I've never really had a way in. Even so, I will definitely check out the article. What about PE though? I could never break into that industry without a stint in banking. How was PE for you? I definitely intend to get my MBA, and I'm praying I get into a T10. Ideally, Columbia - I've heard is amazing for IB and PE (especially since I'm in NYC).

And lastly, do you think (if I can fit it in) that the CFA is worth it?

Thanks again ANT.

Feb 20, 2015

Why couldn't you go into PE? How about a HF. You are going to be modeling and dealing with catastrophic risk. This is extremely quant. These skills could be useful in all types of fields. Also, who cares about PE or HF's. People want to leave banking and go into these fields for better hours and more pay. You can make a shit load in cat insurance.

This is very niche dude. You could go pure quant modeling or you could go valuation. You could spring board into actuarial stuff, or more programming. Find quant HF's and you would be a good fit.

Either way you could easily do a top MBA with a good GMAT.

Feb 20, 2015
ANT:

Why couldn't you go into PE? How about a HF. You are going to be modeling and dealing with catastrophic risk. This is extremely quant. These skills could be useful in all types of fields. Also, who cares about PE or HF's. People want to leave banking and go into these fields for better hours and more pay. You can make a shit load in cat insurance.

This is very niche dude. You could go pure quant modeling or you could go valuation. You could spring board into actuarial stuff, or more programming. Find quant HF's and you would be a good fit.

Either way you could easily do a top MBA with a good GMAT.

DUDE...thanks a ton. This has been invaluable. You've given me a hell of a lot to think about, and since I'm just starting my career - this is a great time to start and I can afford to be flexible. Thanks a lot man, really appreciate it.

Feb 20, 2015

Just sent in my deposit for Villanova ANT. Now the fun begins.

"The only point in making money is so you can tell some big shot where to go."
-Bogie

Feb 20, 2015

PM me. We can talk more.

Feb 20, 2015

I am a student at a state school and am really interested in the Nova MSF. Problem for me is that I did really poorly in my first two years as an undergrad and now even getting 3.9+ these last two years(accounting/economics with a math minor) as I have been will only bring me to a 3.0 =/. Do you think being a former professional athlete will be enough to explain the bad grades to Nova admissions department?

Feb 20, 2015

Your GPA showed improvement. A 3.0 is not the end of the world. Aim for a strong GMAT and work on your essays. Apply early also. PM me and we can talk off line.

Feb 20, 2015

ANT, are you in the Philly area? I am and am now considering the 'Nova 2012/13 MSF. I've gotta decide somewhat quickly I suppose and have to fit GMAT study/review around my CFA Level II studies. Fuck I should have just taken the GMATs in December like I was supposed to.

My name is Nicky, but you can call me Dre.

Feb 20, 2015

Can you intern while in the program, say in the summer time, or do they do summer classes too? I'm a history/econ major at a total non-target and am really interested in MSF programs but fear getting left behind if I go n without good finance related work under my belt.

Feb 20, 2015
jon1987:

Can you intern while in the program, say in the summer time, or do they do summer classes too? I'm a history/econ major at a total non-target and am really interested in MSF programs but fear getting left behind if I go n without good finance related work under my belt.

Summer is packed, but you have Friday's off and are in class at broken times during the week so you could fit a light internship in. I did mine in the spring, but you can do one in the fall. A guy last year did fall and spring, paid internship, but it was F500.

Really depends on your motivation and determination. I would say that if you have an internship or two on your resume you might want to focus on networking and interview prep, but if you have nothing a finance internship will help you out immensely.

Feb 20, 2015
jon1987:

Can you intern while in the program, say in the summer time, or do they do summer classes too? I'm a history/econ major at a total non-target and am really interested in MSF programs but fear getting left behind if I go n without good finance related work under my belt.

Looks like orientation type thing is late August. Classes begin September and you are graduated by June. 4 classes per semester but I'de imagine fairly intense.

My name is Nicky, but you can call me Dre.

Feb 20, 2015

IMO, IB placements from Villanova depend on the individual. Every year a handful of students land banking jobs, many more land interviews. The best a school can do is provide the opportunity (which Nova does, along with all the other schools), but it is ultimately up to the individual to prep, network and execute.

Feb 20, 2015

Hey dude.. Where did you end up?

I talked to a Nova kid a bit ago and I guess only 2/3 kids got IB through OCR

Feb 20, 2015

Haha.

The program has solid OCR and tons of alumni that can help you out. The summer semester isn't easy though and you'll need to do well in order to really go after those banking gigs. Not saying a 4.0, but you need above a 3.0. This years summer was shortened because of scheduling which made things more difficult. That is not going to be the case this upcoming year.

Every program has people who are super stars and people who struggle some. I wouldn't consider one to necessarily be better than the other. I struggled initially in the program and ended up just fine. I can name multiple instances of others who have had the same experience.

Feb 20, 2015

Ya.. I mean I hear the dudes there now are actually killing interviews... Some people have BB interviews

Feb 20, 2015

Word on the street is that everyone's getting superdays at BBs/GS. Pretzels are salty...cause no BB.

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Feb 20, 2015

Just to drum this up.... I have some friends in the program that I know are interviewing for some decent MM PE funds... Nova FTW

Feb 20, 2015
Haywood Jablowme:

Just to drum this up.... I have some friends in the program that I know are interviewing for some decent MM PE funds... Nova FTW

I can confirm

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Feb 20, 2015

I can confirm this as well

Feb 20, 2015

Is this true?

Feb 20, 2015

I can confirm that a select couple people in the program are in fact getting PE interviews

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts." - Bertrand Russell

Feb 20, 2015
leveragealltheway:

I can confirm that a select couple people in the program are in fact getting PE interviews

I can confirm that this guy can confirm.

Feb 20, 2015

Needless to say I know a LARGE number of the current class who regret choosing Villanova over the other schools where they were accepted.

Feb 20, 2015
AnonNovaMSF:

Needless to say I know a LARGE number of the current class who regret choosing Villanova over the other schools where they were accepted.

You couldn't put that in your first post?

I'll wait for TNA to come drop some real knowledge here. I don't trust dummy accounts.

Feb 20, 2015

I can concur with the post above and will try to give a brief description of the classes we took.

Summer session

Valuation - Assigned a company and had to work in groups of three. If you were in a bad group then you'd end up with a B or a C (no + or -). Balance sheet --> Invested Capital, Income Statement --> NOPLAT, Funding Statement (no SCF), forget what you learned from Macabacus or WSP/TTS/BIWS/WST... so much for circular references because it doesn't exist in this class and neither does a statement of cash flows.

Econometrics - Started with Stata, but it got dropped because of the lack of programming skills. Did hypothesis testing and regressions, I didn't think it was too bad, but it was fast paced so if you don't have a math background then expect a B/C.

corporate finance - 100 multiple choice exam with about 15 short answer questions/calculations. Expected you to do about 10 chapters for the midterm and almost the whole textbook for the final. If you have a finance/accounting background then this class wasn't bad at all, if you didn't then expect a B/C and having to cram nonstop.

Six week of classes... 4 weeks after accounting for midterms and finals, 3 weeks after introductions and whatever.
"Any fool can know. The point is to understand." - from my man Einstein himself, guess how much I understood after 3 weeks of cramming?

Fall semester

Portfolio Theory - Mainly presentations, expected you to have a stock pitch ready within a week that had to have 10% upside relative to its peers...

Derivatives - Started with futures and forwards, took a multiple choice midterm that had "none of the above" as the correct answer. Most of the class bombed it, it got curved by a few points. The rest of the faculty is now pissed that the class got curved so the majority of the class can pass.

Investment Banking - Started with an op model (seemed promising), ended with APV so far. Introduced LBOs, still no integrated models w/ tranches of debt...

Financial Institutions - Talked about how special FIs were and the different types such as commercial banks, savings and loans, insurance, investment management (MF/HF), securities and IB. Balance sheet items and type of risks they had to deal with. Took midterm last Thursday, guess what was on the exam? NOTHING RELEVANT TO WHAT WE STUDIED FOR (First 7 chapters of the textbook in addition to all the handouts and notes/problems we took in class).

Fall semester isn't as bad as the summer, but don't expect a break because projects and exams are usually due back to back to back to back to back to back. We are on our fall break right now, but we still have papers and presentations and more papers and things to do, along with networking.

Ongoing

Professional Development Program (PDP) - Supposed to prepare you for interviews and networking etc. Did interview workshop AFTER superdays started. Was promised a mentor and never got one.

I chose Villanova because of the strong brand name. I didn't expect BBs, but definitely expected MMs and help with networking. But after this summer session, it would probably be a long shot getting into boutiques.

Adcom knows that they messed up with the super short summer session, but have no plans on fixing it. I am now $40K in debt and will probably end up in BO somewhere, which I could have done after undergrad.

If you're still thinking about applying here, good luck getting into BBs/MMs, you'll have better opportunities at other schools.

They all said that a 3.0 GPA is fine for getting into IB... let me know what your thoughts are WSO

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Feb 20, 2015

So i graduated from the Nova MSF last year and our class didn't seem to have any of the issues that your class is facing. I understand the condensed summer can make it difficult but maybe the class just needs to step their game up as a whole. Rumor has it that the Admin are aware of the issues with the condensed summer and wont be scheduling it that way moving forward. The program is no joke and you will learn a lot from it, which you are completely taking for granted.

Secondly, the tone of the post seems to indicate that the program does not open doors, but then you go on to list BMO and Cowen. I am confused because there are a million of students that would kill for FO roles at those banks. What exactly were you expecting? GS?

Feb 20, 2015

So based on your posts you didn't land a job until August... And it was at a "small boutique".. Did you really go to Villanova and pay all that money and spend all that time to go to a "small boutique"? The Villanova brand consistently puts kids into a lot of decent banks down the street and yet the MSF is content with and brags about its boutique and lower tier IB placements as if its something to boast about...

Are people expecting Goldman?? No... But we are expecting opportunities that would have otherwise been unavailable to them without the program. People are also expecting a program that gives them the tools to succeed not dated information such as (ROIC and Invested Capital) and a GPA to take to employers and not get laughed out of the room.. While the school admins are content with and repeatedly say "its okay you will have a 3.2 by graduation and will graduate".. No one comes to an MSF to "graduate" people come for a job and to get a skill set to succeed. administrators sell this program as the doorway to FO IB yet they know that the professors want the program to be a "Pre-PhD" program, and they KNOW when accepting you that the odds are you won't even have a chance to interview for the job you wanted when you walked in the door in June.

If I were to say I wanted to work in banking at a HW, Jefferies, Greenhill, Moelis, UBS, RBC, or Baird out of VILLANOVA with a MSF. Then most people in the industry would say that is an attainable goal as long as I know my shit and can get in the door... So maybe you just had your bar set too low and are "content with graduating with your 3.2" and "getting a job"

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Feb 20, 2015
AnonNovaMSF:

So based on your posts you didn't land a job until August... And it was at a "small boutique".. Did you really go to Villanova and pay all that money and spend all that time to go to a "small boutique"? The Villanova brand consistently puts kids into a lot of decent banks down the street and yet the MSF is content with and brags about its boutique and lower tier IB placements as if its something to boast about...

Are people expecting Goldman?? No... But we are expecting opportunities that would have otherwise been unavailable to them without the program. People are also expecting a program that gives them the tools to succeed not dated information such as (ROIC and Invested Capital) and a GPA to take to employers and not get laughed out of the room.. While the school admins are content with and repeatedly say "its okay you will have a 3.2 by graduation and will graduate".. No one comes to an MSF to "graduate" people come for a job and to get a skill set to succeed. administrators sell this program as the doorway to FO IB yet they know that the professors want the program to be a "Pre-PhD" program, and they KNOW when accepting you that the odds are you won't even have a chance to interview for the job you wanted when you walked in the door in June.

If I were to say I wanted to work in banking at a HW, Jefferies, Greenhill, Moelis, UBS, RBC, or Baird out of VILLANOVA with a MSF. Then most people in the industry would say that is an attainable goal as long as I know my shit and can get in the door... So maybe you just had your bar set too low and are "content with graduating with your 3.2" and "getting a job"

Who is this post directed at? I think this is directed at me so I will go ahead and respond, but I didnt place in August so I am confused. I have been where I am at since I graduated in May.

You aren't getting too much sympathy from me. It is a tough program, it is graduate school, and you are expected to work hard. My class last year, as a whole, did not struggle with grades. Maybe the intensity just caught your class off guard.

I am at a small boutique but I consider myself very lucky to be where I am at considering the industry is the way it is. There is obviously a very large disconnect between reality and your perception of reality, and you can't blame anyone for that beside yourself. The fact that you think just enrolling in Villanova automatically qualifies you for a job at an IB shows the disconnect. Same goes for the fact that you think you think Moelis and Greenhill are going to hire anyone from an MSF program (with the exception of Princeton) also shows the disconnect. I almost feel sorry for you with how naive you are about getting into banking. For me the 40k was completely worth it because otherwise I was not going to get into the industry with out the MSF, and it still took a tremendous amount of work on my part.

You are questioning what is being taught to you by people who have been leaders in the industry, and you aren't aware that you are actually being taught some solid material that you will be relying on in your job. You are at an academic institution it is not a job generator. In case you didnt know a Masters degree is kind of a Pre-PhD, what did you think you were signing up for?

My interpretation of your thread is that you just received some rejection letters about a position or two that you were very excited about and you are feeling down about the whole program knowing that recruiting season is winding down. I went through this same process of second guessing everything and feeling down about stuff around the end of October/November. You have to stay focused and realize that a lot, if not most of the people don't land in a job until second semester or the summer. This is probably not the type of response that you want to hear, but no one in Finance has any sympathy for this kind of attitude, and it certainly wont help you when it comes to getting that job.

Feb 20, 2015

Just as an aside -- ROIC and invested capital are very much relevant and important. In fact, if you answer the "What one metric would you want to know before investing in a company?" question at my fund with something other than ROIC (or maybe normalized FCF) you can bet you're not going to get the job.

Disclosure: Don't have any horse in the Villanova MSF race.

Feb 20, 2015

What is the point of having such a low average GPA? It seems like the #1 selling point of a MSF is placement and grade deflation (compared to other terminal degrees) is damaging that...

Feb 20, 2015

Placements will probably be terrible this year if this keeps up... I'm considering dropping out and going back to work as a peasant.

Feb 20, 2015

I've generally heard good things about Nova MSF. Just looking at the 2013 placements, the majority of candidates placed into IB, PE, VC, ER, IM, ST, or consulting. Can't be that bad.

Feb 20, 2015

.

Feb 20, 2015

I feel like this discussion needs a non-anonymous poster, so I'll jump in at my own personal risk b/c WallStreet101 is so fucking annoying.

"You aren't getting too much sympathy from me. It is a tough program, it is graduate school, and you are expected to work hard. My class last year, as a whole, did not struggle with grades. Maybe the intensity just caught your class off guard."
1. You're not convincing me of anything with 'this is a graduate level program'. The workload in this program is borderline destructive, and if you're not a finance and accounting stud good luck. No one is learning anything and most of the people that are doing well don't understand the material, but have just made it a point to crank. I respect that though - in a program that doesn't care about its students - you've got to do what it takes to protect your GPA. I would understand the volume of work if students didn't have to do internships or recruit on the side, but that's not the case and its unacceptable to me. If the MSF wants to make it about the academic work then they need to clearly state that this is not a program for 'practioners'. And before you reel-off and say that I must be in the bottom bucket of the class, I've got one of the higher GPAs in the program.

"I am at a small boutique but I consider myself very lucky to be where I am at considering the industry is the way it is"
2. You're at a small boutique, and you "consider yourself lucky" - I think that speaks very loudly about your fractured mindset. Just to preface this piece I've said it a million times on WSO that just signing on to an MSF will not get you a position, go back and check. But you're refusal to see any 'upside' shows how little you know about recruiting and investment banking. You're basically saying shoot low so you don't miss. Sorry you feel that way, but I'm an MSF and recruited w/ Lazard, Evercore, and GS. I'm not saying that to blow up my ego, but to show how off-base you are. Before you tell someone what is or is not possible you should probably experienced it yourself - I doubt you even thought about how to break into those banks, which makes you unqualified to even comment on this. So future MSFs, ignore this shit advice and step up - who gives a fuck about what anyone else says about 'what's possible'.

"You are questioning what is being taught to you by people who have been leaders in the industry"
3. Just to clarify what industry are you talking about? If its IB, AM, HFs, PE then you're just incorrect - literally you are factually wrong. We are being taught by academics, period - challenge me on this and I'll post every CV of the people we're being taught by. Not industry leaders, but no one claimed they were - until your dumbass did. So we finally get to it, you believe that the MSF is not for what its most popular and what everyone on this board touts: rebranding and breaking into IB, AM, wherever. You said it yourself its an academic program and for pre-PhD's - take note WSO and make your application decisions accordingly, I did not say this WS101 did.

4. My interpretation of your post is that you don't really know about anything banking or recruitment in general, recruiting in the Spring vs. Fall is ass backwards. Enjoy working at your boutique and telling kids not to shoot beyond that, sounds like that position really suits you.

Before you just jump to conclusions and burn me about feeling sore over rejections, I wrapped up recruiting in the 2nd week of September and turned down GS.

'Before you enter... be willing to pay the price'

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Feb 20, 2015
BepBep12:

I feel like this discussion needs a non-anonymous poster, so I'll jump in at my own personal risk b/c WallStreet101 is so fucking annoying.

"You aren't getting too much sympathy from me. It is a tough program, it is graduate school, and you are expected to work hard. My class last year, as a whole, did not struggle with grades. Maybe the intensity just caught your class off guard."

1. You're not convincing me of anything with 'this is a graduate level program'. The workload in this program is borderline destructive, and if you're not a finance and accounting stud good luck. No one is learning anything and most of the people that are doing well don't understand the material, but have just made it a point to crank. I respect that though - in a program that doesn't care about its students - you've got to do what it takes to protect your GPA. I would understand the volume of work if students didn't have to do internships or recruit on the side, but that's not the case and its unacceptable to me. If the MSF wants to make it about the academic work then they need to clearly state that this is not a program for 'practioners'. And before you reel-off and say that I must be in the bottom bucket of the class, I've got one of the higher GPAs in the program.

"I am at a small boutique but I consider myself very lucky to be where I am at considering the industry is the way it is"

2. You're at a small boutique, and you "consider yourself lucky" - I think that speaks very loudly about your fractured mindset. Just to preface this piece I've said it a million times on WSO that just signing on to an MSF will not get you a position, go back and check. But you're refusal to see any 'upside' shows how little you know about recruiting and investment banking. You're basically saying shoot low so you don't miss. Sorry you feel that way, but I'm an MSF and recruited w/ Lazard, Evercore, and GS. I'm not saying that to blow up my ego, but to show how off-base you are. Before you tell someone what is or is not possible you should probably experienced it yourself - I doubt you even thought about how to break into those banks, which makes you unqualified to even comment on this. So future MSFs, ignore this shit advice and step up - who gives a fuck about what anyone else says about 'what's possible'.

"You are questioning what is being taught to you by people who have been leaders in the industry"

3. Just to clarify what industry are you talking about? If its IB, AM, HFs, PE then you're just incorrect - literally you are factually wrong. We are being taught by academics, period - challenge me on this and I'll post every CV of the people we're being taught by. Not industry leaders, but no one claimed they were - until your dumbass did. So we finally get to it, you believe that the MSF is not for what its most popular and what everyone on this board touts: rebranding and breaking into IB, AM, wherever. You said it yourself its an academic program and for pre-PhD's - take note WSO and make your application decisions accordingly, I did not say this WS101 did.

4. My interpretation of your post is that you don't really know about anything banking or recruitment in general, recruiting in the Spring vs. Fall is ass backwards. Enjoy working at your boutique and telling kids not to shoot beyond that, sounds like that position really suits you.

Before you just jump to conclusions and burn me about feeling sore over rejections, I wrapped up recruiting in the 2nd week of September and turned down GS.

I wanted to echo this. I got MADDDD text messages about this post. So here is a 2nd post from a real account.

I can speak for myself and a decent percentage of my class when I say that morale, motivation, and outlook are all below absolute zero.

Not to mention that a great number (Including me) greatly regret coming to Villanova over other well regarded programs

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Feb 20, 2015

Waiting for someone to accuse ANT of hyping up the program for last 4-5 years.

Feb 20, 2015

dont think anyone could put any blame on ANT -- if anything soundslike the school decided to experiment and eviscerate everyone in the current class (if the posts are true) which is obviously really shitty but hey, thats life and now you have to either do what you can with the supposedly shitty situation or bitchabout it

Feb 20, 2015
shorttheworld:

dont think anyone could put any blame on ANT -- if anything soundslike the school decided to experiment and eviscerate everyone in the current class (if the posts are true) which is obviously really shitty but hey, thats life and now you have to either do what you can with the supposedly shitty situation or bitchabout it

Or do both. The bigger issue here is that there have always been issues with low GPAs in the program and people struggling to try going through structured recruiting because of it. As mentioned above the summer semester average GPA historically has been about a 3.2 Frankly we are surprised this hasn't come up on the forum before and that no one that attends was ever warned that there is a 50% chance they will have under a 3.2 and a 25% chance of being under a 3.0..

On a note to the other comment. I have heard from a couple sources that TNA has incentives to hype the program and get kids committed to Nova

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Feb 20, 2015

I suggest people leave me out of this post. I do not hype this program and am 100% honest about it. I've told countless people to not go to Nova and have relationships with every other school and am friends with all their programs. I think the MSF is a great degree and want to see it grow in prominence.

The fact about Nova is that they accept people with a variety of backgrounds. Nova will accept people who have low GPA's but work experience. Low GMAT's but high UG GPA's. People from non traditional backgrounds, etc. Other programs are not as forgiving. Unfortunately getting in is only half the battle.

I

Feb 20, 2015

The level of naivety and ignorance on this thread is absolutely shocking as is the demeanor and the tone. It's like the OP did absolutely zero research with respect to the MSF program in general and the schools that offer this second-rate degree.

AnonNovaMSF,

Villanova is consistently considered a third-tier MSF program and one that's relatively easy to get into (ANT has said, on numerous occasions, that a 3.0 GPA and a 650 GMAT is sufficient). The program is on the same tier as JHU, UF and UIUC. If you think that graduating from this program, with this degree, in this economy, will give you a good shot at the type of jobs and positions that you referred to in your earlier comments, then there's something seriously wrong with you. If you think that it's a good idea to shit on your alumni, to shit on your program while you're still enrolled, or that you're too good for a boutique IB gig because you have an MSF from Villanova, then there's something seriously wrong with you.

And yeah, the program is going to be somewhat difficult. They're not going to teach you the basic crap you learned as an undergrad, and it's not an MBA where individuals, who already have solid work experience, go to take a few years off and learn about conflict resolution, "critical thinking" and "leadership effectiveness." The program deals with multivariate time series regression analysis, stochastic calculus, advanced valuation methods, the pricing and hedging of derivative securities, etc. It's geared to quants (usually internationals) who want to work in AM or at HF's, or to domestic students looking to break into corporate finance/consulting. There are Phd's in some of my courses. The fact that this surprises you, again, shows how little research you actually did before you dropped 40k into a program that you didn't understand.

And finally, the level of disrespect and immaturity that you have demonstrated in this thread really reflects poorly on you and your school. I understand that you're a coward and that you don't want to be associated with the crap you've written here (probably a smart move), but instead of bitching on the forums, you should speak to your deans, call or email alumni (rather than shitting on them) or attend office hours for extra help.

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Feb 20, 2015
Esuric:

The level of naivety and ignorance on this thread is absolutely shocking as is the demeanor and the tone. It's like the OP did absolutely zero research with respect to the MSF program in general and the schools that offer this second-rate degree.

AnonNovaMSF,

Villanova is consistently considered a third-tier MSF program and one that's relatively easy to get into (ANT has said, on numerous occasions, that a 3.0 GPA and a 650 GMAT is sufficient). The program is on the same tier as JHU, UF and UIUC. If you think that graduating from this program, with this degree, in this economy, will give you a good shot at the type of jobs and positions that you referred to in your earlier comments, then there's something seriously wrong with you. If you think that it's a good idea to shit on your alumni, to shit on your program while you're still enrolled, or that you're too good for a boutique IB gig because you have an MSF from Villanova, then there's something seriously wrong with you.

And yeah, the program is going to be somewhat difficult. They're not going to teach you the basic crap you learned as an undergrad, and it's not an MBA where individuals, who already have solid work experience, go to take a few years off and learn about conflict resolution, "critical thinking" and "leadership effectiveness." The program deals with multivariate time series regression analysis, stochastic calculus, advanced valuation methods, the pricing and hedging of derivative securities, etc. It's geared to quants (usually internationals) who want to work in AM or at HF's, or to domestic students looking to break into corporate finance/consulting. There are Phd's in some of my courses. The fact that this surprises you, again, shows how little research you actually did before you dropped 40k into a program that you didn't understand.

And finally, the level of disrespect and immaturity that you have demonstrated in this thread really reflects poorly on you and your school. I understand that you're a coward and that you don't want to be associated with the crap you've written here (probably a smart move), but instead of bitching on the forums, you should speak to your deans, call or email alumni (rather than shitting on them) or attend office hours for extra help.

I'm sorry, but you just sound like a huge idiot.

1. No one does an MSF for the coursework - nice job trying to sound impressive w/ topics like 'Stochastic Calculus' and 'Advanced Valuation'. Quants in MSFs? Absolutely not, they're in MFEs or Applied Mathematics tracks, sorry bro - you're not God's gift to finance, apparently no one told you at WashU. If you knew anything about how this stuff is practiced in 'the real world' the shit that students do w/ regards to 'valuation' in MSFs would make your stomach turn. So if you think you're advanced (which you're not) maybe you should open your eyes and realize that no gives a fuck about whether you're using 1-2-3-4-6-1,000 factors to discount your CFs. But just by posting how 'advanced' you think MSF degrees are shows that you just are out of touch w/ reality. Keep drinking that WashU Kool-Aid.

2. What tiers are you even talking about - no one cares about relative ranking and if you knew anything about the MSF landscape (apparently you don't, even though you're in one) you'd realize the JHU and UIUC are not in the same league. Again, not sure why you even bothered 'tiering' anyways, irrelevant.

3. Finally, while I don't agree w/ the full on flame war, I'd rather have open discussions about these issues versus PMs. I think another disgruntled MSFer wanted to send PMs back and forth. That's what's cowardly, I'm posting from my real account and my thoughts about the program should be weighed freely against others. Openness is important esp. when you look at the investment required for these types of programs. If you read what OP posted as well you'd realize that MSFers have run up against a wall w/ Administration and Faculty so your little 'email the Dean, go whine, blahh' comment is irrelevant as well. Regardless, the larger WSO has the right to know both the pros (which I've written about extensively) and the cons which you so want hidden for some reason.

'Before you enter... be willing to pay the price'

Feb 20, 2015
BepBep12:
Esuric:

The level of naivety and ignorance on this thread is absolutely shocking as is the demeanor and the tone. It's like the OP did absolutely zero research with respect to the MSF program in general and the schools that offer this second-rate degree.

AnonNovaMSF,

Villanova is consistently considered a third-tier MSF program and one that's relatively easy to get into (ANT has said, on numerous occasions, that a 3.0 GPA and a 650 GMAT is sufficient). The program is on the same tier as JHU, UF and UIUC. If you think that graduating from this program, with this degree, in this economy, will give you a good shot at the type of jobs and positions that you referred to in your earlier comments, then there's something seriously wrong with you. If you think that it's a good idea to shit on your alumni, to shit on your program while you're still enrolled, or that you're too good for a boutique IB gig because you have an MSF from Villanova, then there's something seriously wrong with you.

And yeah, the program is going to be somewhat difficult. They're not going to teach you the basic crap you learned as an undergrad, and it's not an MBA where individuals, who already have solid work experience, go to take a few years off and learn about conflict resolution, "critical thinking" and "leadership effectiveness." The program deals with multivariate time series regression analysis, stochastic calculus, advanced valuation methods, the pricing and hedging of derivative securities, etc. It's geared to quants (usually internationals) who want to work in AM or at HF's, or to domestic students looking to break into corporate finance/consulting. There are Phd's in some of my courses. The fact that this surprises you, again, shows how little research you actually did before you dropped 40k into a program that you didn't understand.

And finally, the level of disrespect and immaturity that you have demonstrated in this thread really reflects poorly on you and your school. I understand that you're a coward and that you don't want to be associated with the crap you've written here (probably a smart move), but instead of bitching on the forums, you should speak to your deans, call or email alumni (rather than shitting on them) or attend office hours for extra help.

I'm sorry, but you just sound like a huge idiot.

1. No one does an MSF for the coursework - nice job trying to sound impressive w/ topics like 'Stochastic Calculus' and 'Advanced Valuation'. Quants in MSFs? Absolutely not, they're in MFEs or Applied Mathematics tracks, sorry bro - you're not God's gift to finance, apparently no one told you at WashU. If you knew anything about how this stuff is practiced in 'the real world' the shit that students do w/ regards to 'valuation' in MSFs would make your stomach turn. So if you think you're advanced (which you're not) maybe you should open your eyes and realize that no gives a fuck about whether you're using 1-2-3-4-6-1,000 factors to discount your CFs. But just by posting how 'advanced' you think MSF degrees are shows that you just are out of touch w/ reality. Keep drinking that WashU Kool-Aid.

2. What tiers are you even talking about - no one cares about relative ranking and if you knew anything about the MSF landscape (apparently you don't, even though you're in one) you'd realize the JHU and UIUC are not in the same league. Again, not sure why you even bothered 'tiering' anyways, irrelevant.

3. Finally, while I don't agree w/ the full on flame war, I'd rather have open discussions about these issues versus PMs. I think another disgruntled MSFer wanted to send PMs back and forth. That's what's cowardly, I'm posting from my real account and my thoughts about the program should be weighed freely against others. Openness is important esp. when you look at the investment required for these types of programs. If you read what OP posted as well you'd realize that MSFers have run up against a wall w/ Administration and Faculty so your little 'email the Dean, go whine, blahh' comment is irrelevant as well. Regardless, the larger WSO has the right to know both the pros (which I've written about extensively) and the cons which you so want hidden for some reason.

All Hail BepBep who stopped the derp derp...

I know this is the direction that we want to steer this post towards.. We aren't trying to bash alumni, just point out the massive gap between expectations/presentations and reality of the MSF

    • 1
Feb 20, 2015

Hi all,

The purpose of this thread was not to bash alumni. I really wanted everyone to see what it is actually like inside the Villanova MSF. It is not what you think of nor is it how people describe it. To say "it is grad school and you should expect to work" is an extreme understatement, our class has not been set up to succeed and what we have been told by administrators and faculty is "Oh well, next year will be better".. Not really a sign of good faith on their part. Also that should show you how they treat their students and how much they are concerned with the success of their class.

By all means build constructively on this. I am not trying to turn this into a 2nd grade monkey shit throwing contest

Feb 20, 2015

This is interesting. I had never heard of the MSF degree before reading about it on WSO. How much of these problems with Villanova are specific to Villanova and how many of them are universal issues with the MSF degree?

Feb 20, 2015

OCR historically yields many or most jobs. The issue is the mix of jobs sought change from year to year. Some years are overweight banking and some are more F500 focused. Nova is a solid MM IBD OCR school with alumni at all the big banks. Problem is banking is hard to get into and the economy is still rough for financial services.

Not everyone comes into the program with a concrete plan hence why people get jobs in the spring. You need to come into nova as well as all the other programs already networked and prepared. Such is the nature of a one year program. If you look at other MSF placements you will see that they qualify placements 6 months after graduation.

Other than the shorter summer the classes are largely the same as when I did the program 3 years ago. I agree the classes are difficult, something that is made clear day one. This is grad school. A masters in finance teaches a variety of topics not just IB prep. This is important as people go into AM, IB, RE, PE, credit, etc. Just like how the CFA teaches stuff many charter holders never use.

MSF programs are hard. I consider Nova to be a moderate program. Wustl, Claremont, and MIT are all harder. Is this needed to get a job? No. Is it needed to earn a degree from an accredited university? Yes.

The guy who teaches valuation was the head of fixed income at Oppenheimer. The fixed income professor when I went was a quant trader at Goldman. The professor who teaches risk management started and runs the real estate center and has helped place Nova MSF students at a couple solid REPE shops.

Honestly, only thing I see changing with the program as a response to this is the class size dropping to 20 students. No more second chances for people with one weak aspect of their profile. This will be unfortunate as their flexibility and holistic approach toward admissions gives many students a new chance and new opportunities.

Feb 20, 2015

.

'Before you enter... be willing to pay the price'

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Feb 20, 2015

They could increase tuition and decrease students. Same results. Nova is cheaper than all the other MSF programs.

Yes, there has been some professor rotation. I had an actual stats phd for my summer semester.

As for a smaller class, that is what might happen.

I will say this. All the professors were helpful and understanding when I went. They provided extra credit and curved. If they are "out for blood" now as people make it out to be maybe it isn't all their fault. These are tenured PhDs that don't have to pass or curve anyone they don't want. Is just keep that in mind because at the end of the day they will keep teachings, the program will keep recruiting and those who get failed out will still have to repay the loans.

Feb 20, 2015
bepbep12:

I'm sorry, but you just sound like a huge idiot.

No one does an MSF for the coursework - nice job trying to sound impressive w/ topics like 'Stochastic Calculus' and 'Advanced Valuation'.

This is my whole point. You don't understand what the degree is. The fact that people, who went to shitty non-targets, use the degree for something that it wasn't originally intended for, says absolutely nothing about the difficulty of the program--which is what you were commenting on and what I was responding to. The degree is designed to give you a deeper, specialized understanding of finance. What did you think you were going to learn about, you idiot? Also, the fact that you put advanced valuation in quotes pretty much says it all.

bepbep12:

Quants in MSFs? Absolutely not, they're in MFEs or Applied Mathematics tracks, sorry bro - you're not God's gift to finance, apparently no one told you at WashU. If you knew anything about how this stuff is practiced in 'the real world' the shit that students do w/ regards to 'valuation' in MSFs would make your stomach turn. So if you think you're advanced (which you're not) maybe you should open your eyes and realize that no gives a fuck about whether you're using 1-2-3-4-6-1,000 factors to discount your CFs. But just by posting how 'advanced' you think MSF degrees are shows that you just are out of touch w/ reality.

First, it may be true that Villanova's MSF may not be quantish, but other programs, like WUSTL, CMC, MIT, etc, most definitely are. There's a whole group of foreign students who couldn't get into top-tier financial engineering programs and in response choose to pursue quantitative MSFs. They will have to use those 'impressive topics' like stochastic calculus, in combination with econometric and programming software, at the jobs that they're applying for.

Second, people that interview me are definitely impressed by the fact that I have been exposed to asset-based and residual-income based valuation models, and that (I can at least pretend that) I'm familiar with technical, empirically superior methods of deriving equity values for my DCF models. Whether or not I use these techniques, or even truly understand them for that matter, is irrelevant. It gives me something to put on a cover letter, something to talk about on interviews, and signals a certain degree of competence to employers.

But again, this is irrelevant to the point I made earlier in response to your comment, which is that you dished out 40k for a program that you knew absolutely nothing about (and are now severely butthurt about it).

bepbep12:

What tiers are you even talking about - no one cares about relative ranking and if you knew anything about the MSF landscape (apparently you don't, even though you're in one) you'd realize the JHU and UIUC are not in the same league. Again, not sure why you even bothered 'tiering' anyways, irrelevant.

So the fact that Villanova has a relatively mediocre MSF program, and that the MSF in general is considered to be a second-rate degree, is irrelevant when talking about the types of career opportunities that it can realistically generate? Good job champ.

bepbep12:

Finally, while I don't agree w/ the full on flame war, I'd rather have open discussions about these issues versus PMs.

You should have open discussions, you idiot, with your alumni, with your deans, or with your professors. What do you hope to gain here? You're not even done with the program yet and you're taking a dump on it because you set your expectations too high and didn't bother to educate yourself about it at all. Also, there are other, more appropriate channels to express your frustration (once you actually graduate, if you graduate at all).

Before you post another knee-jerk response that ignores everything that I've said, and before you accuse me of being an idiot again (even though I outperform you on every objective measure of intelligence), why don't you read this carefully and think about what I'm saying?

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Feb 20, 2015
Esuric:
bepbep12:

I'm sorry, but you just sound like a huge idiot.

No one does an MSF for the coursework - nice job trying to sound impressive w/ topics like 'Stochastic Calculus' and 'Advanced Valuation'.

This is my whole point you twat. You don't understand what the degree is. The fact that people, who went to shitty non-targets, use the degree for something that it wasn't originally intended for, says absolutely nothing about the difficulty of the program--which is what you were commenting on and what I was responding to. The degree is designed to give you a deeper, specialized understanding of finance. What did you think you were going to learn about, you idiot? Also, the fact that you put advanced valuation in quotes pretty much says it all.

bepbep12:

Quants in MSFs? Absolutely not, they're in MFEs or Applied Mathematics tracks, sorry bro - you're not God's gift to finance, apparently no one told you at WashU. If you knew anything about how this stuff is practiced in 'the real world' the shit that students do w/ regards to 'valuation' in MSFs would make your stomach turn. So if you think you're advanced (which you're not) maybe you should open your eyes and realize that no gives a fuck about whether you're using 1-2-3-4-6-1,000 factors to discount your CFs. But just by posting how 'advanced' you think MSF degrees are shows that you just are out of touch w/ reality.

First, it may be true that Villanova's MSF may not be quantish, but other programs, like WUSTL, CMC, MIT, etc, most definitely are. There's a whole group of foreign students who couldn't get into top-tier financial engineering programs and in response choose to pursue quantitative MSFs. They will have to use those 'impressive topics' like stochastic calculus, in combination with econometric and programming software, at the jobs that they're applying for.

Second, people that interview me are definitely impressed by the fact that I have been exposed to asset-based and residual-income based valuation models, and that (I can at least pretend that) I'm familiar with technical, empirically superior methods of deriving equity values for my DCF models. Whether or not I use these techniques, or even understand them for that matter, is irrelevant. It gives me something to put on a cover letter, something to talk about on interviews, and signals a certain degree of competence to employers.

But again, this is irrelevant to the point I made earlier in response to your comment, which is that you dished out 40k for a program that you knew absolutely nothing about (and now you're severely butthurt about it).

bepbep12:

What tiers are you even talking about - no one cares about relative ranking and if you knew anything about the MSF landscape (apparently you don't, even though you're in one) you'd realize the JHU and UIUC are not in the same league. Again, not sure why you even bothered 'tiering' anyways, irrelevant.

So the fact that Villanova has a relatively mediocre MSF program, and that the MSF in general is considered to be a second-rate degree, is irrelevant when talking about the types of career opportunities that it can realistically generate? Good job champ.

bepbep12:

Finally, while I don't agree w/ the full on flame war, I'd rather have open discussions about these issues versus PMs.

You should have open discussions, you idiot, with your alumni, with your deans, or with your professors. What do you hope to gain here? You're not even done with the program yet and you're taking a dump on it because you set your expectations too high and didn't bother to educate yourself about it at all. Also, there are other, more appropriate channels to express your frustration (once you actually graduate, if you graduate at all).

Before you post another knee-jerk response that ignores everything that I've said, and before you accuse me of being an idiot again (even though I outperform you on every objective measure of intelligence), why don't you read this carefully and think about what I'm saying?

Sorry Esuric that I made you mad and I forced you to say a bunch of dumb/weird shit. You're totally right man, I made a mistake.

But wait!

Did you literally just say you outperform me? I'm going to let that sink in for a second. Yup, that just happened, one grown man to another: "I outperform you"

I hope you outperform me - at least for your sake. BOOM! Go objectively measure that shit.

Oh and graduate? I don't need to... I am special, sorry to burst your bubble.

'Before you enter... be willing to pay the price'

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Feb 20, 2015
Esuric:
bepbep12:

I'm sorry, but you just sound like a huge idiot.

No one does an MSF for the coursework - nice job trying to sound impressive w/ topics like 'Stochastic Calculus' and 'Advanced Valuation'.

This is my whole point. You don't understand what the degree is. The fact that people, who went to shitty non-targets, use the degree for something that it wasn't originally intended for, says absolutely nothing about the difficulty of the program--which is what you were commenting on and what I was responding to. The degree is designed to give you a deeper, specialized understanding of finance. What did you think you were going to learn about, you idiot? Also, the fact that you put advanced valuation in quotes pretty much says it all.

I have a feeling you either didn't actually attend an MSF or just have never actually researched it. Because of the lack of rankings or distinct rating system MSFs are frequently chosen based on their placements. When people are choosing programs for that reason what do you think the ultimate goal is? Frankly, you come across as way too angry to not have a horse in this race. Please share...

I am a current student in this class and can vouch for the majority of what has been said.

One thing to note is that the MBA comparison is apt for this year's program. Almost 40% of the class had prior work experience coming in. This means that many of us are viewed as in between undergrad and MBA. When being compared to highly inflated MBA GPAs ours pale in comparison. This is our qualm, we actually had a Derivatives exam that was given to us as in class while Villanova MBA got it as take home.

Ultimately I agree with Esuric about the expectations. The class absolutely did not expect to get beaten down during the summer and have no assistance for their error. Our expectations however, are derived from the administrators of the program. We didnt develop the idea on our own that the program's goal is to get a job. That concept has been pitched to us by the Director of the business school, the MSF dean, our Professional Development team among many others. However this concept is vastly different from the expectation of the professors who view the program as a PH.D feeder program.

My point is not to bash the program just to make sure that others don't go through the same eye opening that I have. I want people to make informed decisions and not be get caught up in the obvious battle going on between administration and professors within the program.

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts." - Bertrand Russell

Feb 20, 2015

WTF is going on in here?

Feb 20, 2015
DickFuld:

WTF is going on in here?

A scathing review of the MSF, followed by angry responses, followed by my useless interjections, followed by more angry responses have derailed the thread in oblivion. The key point is:

1. Esuric outperforms me.

'Before you enter... be willing to pay the price'

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Feb 20, 2015

I know Esuric and he is at a top MSF program with a legit resume/application.

As for material, this stuff is all material taught on the CFA. Hence why the program recently received CFA recognition. MBA programs are more generalist and therefore do not teach finance to the level that a specialized masters degree does.

I empathize with everyone as the programs intensity caught me off guard also. You need to juggle a lot of balls at one and this material isn't undergrad. IMO, I think that is a good thing as it sets the MSF apart from the MBA or MMS. I routinely advise people to look at management programs over finance if they are totally committed to it. I'll start doing that more often going forward.

Feb 20, 2015
TNA:

I know Esuric and he is at a top MSF program with a legit resume/application.

As for material, this stuff is all material taught on the CFA. Hence why the program recently received CFA recognition. MBA programs are more generalist and therefore do not teach finance to the level that a specialized masters degree does.

I empathize with everyone as the programs intensity caught me off guard also. You need to juggle a lot of balls at one and this material isn't undergrad. IMO, I think that is a good thing as it sets the MSF apart from the MBA or MMS. I routinely advise people to look at management programs over finance if they are totally committed to it. I'll start doing that more often going forward.

I dont care if he's at a "top MSF program" he had nothing valuable to add except that "shitty people from non targets have unrealistic expectations." Which I happen to find particularly hilarious since he attended [REDACTED] (a Non Target)

And I dont think anyone is looking for empathy. What people want is for people to know that the program that they are pitched by the administration is not actually what you get. You are getting a quasi Ph.D prep program with professors who are not on the same page as the administration.

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts." - Bertrand Russell

Feb 20, 2015

The program isn't a quasi PHD program. The material is based off of the CFA a lot of the time. A phd program would be more math involved.

Feb 20, 2015

This may sound stupid but can someone bring this thread to a 'Nova MSF administrator and do an interview? Curious to see what they have to say when students are this pissed off.

Also, I remember seeing a couple of people here got into 'Nova MSF this year and gunning for IBD with all the networking trips and so. Would love to hear what they *really* think about the program and how it has affected their effort in recruiting so far.

Nothing is true; everything is permitted.

Feb 20, 2015
phddhp:

This may sound stupid but can someone bring this thread to a 'Nova MSF administrator and do an interview? Curious to see what they have to say when students are this pissed off.

Also, I remember seeing a couple of people here got into 'Nova MSF this year and gunning for IBD with all the networking trips and so. Would love to hear what they *really* think about the program and how it has affected their effort in recruiting so far.

Check out @bepbep12 below. If it were grades alone and our class averge was a 3.2, but the admins demonstrated a willingness to help out students then things would be better. Honestly there is an extremely bad taste in the mouth for all current students. The message we are all getting is "well we already have your money better luck next time". We have brought all of these issues along with others to the attention of the administrators cine the end of June and nothing has been done.

My personal stance is that there is a disconnect. To say that it is the program's fault isn't accurate because we took the courses and took the tests. But for the program to blame the students for not working hard enough or being smart enough, that says that they are more concerned with tuition revenue than they are with the quality of their class or accepting people who will succeed in their program.

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Feb 20, 2015

@Esuric

You are just absolutely off base dude. I don't wanna start trying to attack people because that isn't what this thread is about, but I am in the Nova MSF and worked in a FO role for almost 2 years at a company that takes kids from the Claremont MSF and the Texas MSF. Please research the people you are talking down to. I am not claiming to be smarter than anyone, and you can track my history to see I had a low undergraduate. I came to the MSF because it was sold as a 2nd chance to get a solid brand and GPA on the resume, while gaining practical knowledge to transition to a different industry within finance

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Feb 20, 2015

Lollerskates

'Before you enter... be willing to pay the price'

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Feb 20, 2015
BepBep12:

Lollerskates

Roflcopter

I am curious who the OP is though. The scary part is it could legitimately be just about anyone in our class.

HA GAYYYYYYYYYYY

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Feb 20, 2015

Let me just say that I don't believe that I'm superior to anyone that chose Villanova's MSF. I would have been there if the timing were better and if WUSTL didn't have such a fantastic curriculum/program. The only point that I'm trying to make is (a) that expectations should be inline with reality and (b) give your program a chance to deliver on its promises. It would be one thing if you all graduated and if you all sent out 99+ apps, networked like crazy and didn't get serious interviews, but that's not the case. It also doesn't make sense to sabotage your program in an attempt to get some sort of revenge.

I don't know why I keep posting in this thread, but for some reason, I'm compelled to do so..

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Feb 20, 2015

.

'Before you enter... be willing to pay the price'

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Feb 20, 2015

Do you think admin is not taking your concerns seriously because there have been several classes before you that have completed the program with out similar issues as the ones this class is having? I don't recall the class last year ever having these concerns.

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Feb 20, 2015
wallstreet101:

Do you think admin is not taking your concerns seriously because there have been several classes before you that have completed the program with out similar issues as the ones this class is having? I don't recall the class last year ever having these concerns.

I think that's the problem here.

'Before you enter... be willing to pay the price'

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Feb 20, 2015

Just as an FYI to people still in the program, spring recruiting has PNC corp banking, HSBC credit rotational, KTR REPE, other F500 roles, Citi Pub fun. IB is usually what is the bulk of fall recruiting.

Agree that fall offers some of the most sought after roles, but I think spring has a lot to offer.

Maybe WallStreet101 can also confirm. Just something I've experienced as well as others.

Feb 20, 2015

.

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Feb 20, 2015
NovaAlumni2012:

Ok, I have had about enough of this shit. Nothing like waking up on a Monday morning to find a cc'd email 30 people deep with this thread as the content. As a Nova MSF alumni and someone who has been trying to increase Nova MSF recruiting it makes me sick to see current students acting this way.

Before I go tit for tat on these question I just want to let all the immature children in the 2013 class who are posting in this thread (and I and the other alumni know who you are in the program) that you better not be asking for help from any of us after this type of behavior.

1) The summer is a free option.

If you did well in UG you don't need the GPA and if you did bad this is your second chance. What it is isn't a free 3.5 GPA so you can fake your way into an interview. Life is hard, banking is hard and so is a graduate finance program.

The fact that you all are complaining about how hard it is only shows that you shouldn't be here in the first place.

The fact that you complain when the program isn't even half over shows how short sighted you are.

The professor who teaches valuation is not only legit, but well connected. He has helped others get jobs and would have helped you guys. Most likely not after this outbreak. You have a guy who used to run a large asset manager/IB, with a CFA, teaching valuation, but yet you complain. I suppose if he was just a theory guy you would whine that he wasn't a practitioner. I'd love for you to have to deal with one of my MD's for a day and see how far you get with this attitude.

Is summer hard? Yes. But it gives you an option to improve on your UG performance and it is relevant to lay the base for the rest of the program.

2) OCR

Nova is and was always represented as a semi target. MM IBD, Some smaller PE, Real Estate firms, F500 rotational programs, Big 4 valuation, etc etc. Placements are easy to fine on this site and they've recently been updated. Villanova alumni are all over wall street and very helpful. On top of all that you are 15 minutes from the 2nd largest city on the east coast and an hour and a half from NYC. You can network all day if you want. I'd imagine most of you spend more time in the bar then dropping $10 bucks for a bus ticket and getting coffee.

3) Professors/Admissions not helpful

Biggest bullshit ever. All the professors help with finding jobs, curve, provide extra credit and have ample office hours. If they aren't helping you it might be because of this petulant behavior shown here. Nothing like pissing off and disrespecting people with PhD's because the material is too hard. You know what is hard? Banking. The CFA. Interning and going to school. Make sure you talk about how hard things are in your interview. Good luck with that one.

4) Experimental Class

Nova's MSF has always been changing. It is one of its strong suits. When students don't like something they make changes. Villanova is always trying to incorporate new materials, new classes, new structures to make it easier to recruit, better material to learn and an all around better experience. Sorry some of you didn't like it.

The saddest thing isn't that you have concerns or suggestions. That is fair and every class has them. The issue is that you don't focus on learning and networking and insist on complaining and bitching. Don't worry though, this has been duly noted amongst us graduated MSF's who managed so suck it up in the same classes you all have had and find good jobs and help others get jobs.

Gotta love people complaining about how hard a graduate program is. Should have studies basket weaving. Clowns.

Honestly man that's fine. If you really want to sit there and "black book" us fore getting on here and honestly expressing our concerns and disappointments with how the program is run. At least a couple of us are on here USING OUR ACTUAL ACCOUNTS. If anything I think that should gain some respect for BepBep, Leveraged, Myself, and Seymour who have the balls to actual say something.

1. I know that I am not complaining about the professors, nor the difficulty in the program. I believe if you re-read my posts that I actually don't have a problem with a difficult program and graduate level courses. We aren't upset at alumni who made it through (which I have also said). We are upset that the program ran a lab experiment on our class and when it blew up in everyone's face they left us high and dry and said better luck next year.

2. We actually all defended the program after the summer semester when a similar post popped up see below link
//www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/villanova-msf-advice

3. While I am trying to keep my posts a little more professional than the OP and I know BepBep is also trying... We really don't appreciate the low blows and monkey shits from all angles. BepBep and myself have talked for the last several weeks about posting something on WSO about the disconnect between the perception and the reality of the program. For anyone honestly looking to get into banking a class average of 3.2 and 5 of 25 under a 3.0 are not good odds. So true while you can be in the top 5 of the class (and everyone should shoot for that) and be eligible for fall recruiting... It needs to be known to people applying that historically 50-75% of the program will not even be eligible for structured banking recruiting. That is a proven historical fact, so to "black book" or sucker punch me fore it really shows who is immature on here.

4. Reiteration of 2. Everyone came in expecting a graduate level program and a rigorous curriculum that not everyone was going to breeze through. That is why a group of us spends 14-16 hours a day on campus studying, reading, etc. (I am sitting her now with bepbep doing homework and we have been here since 7:30 this morning and will be here till late tonight)

5. BepBep, Leveraged, Seymour, and myself have all put ourselves out there and put our necks on the line to provide 1st hand information to people seeking information of what it is like in the program. So if you did actually go through the program post from your real account so that people may actually listen to what you have to say instead of using a troll account made less than an hour ago.

you can call me disrespectful and immature, but we are the same age and I have worked for MDs before.... They would have more respect for me doing something and writing my name on it than someone dumping an anonymous post

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Feb 20, 2015

guess 13 is an unlucky number :x

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Feb 20, 2015

THANK YOU ALL FOR MAKING MY MONDAY MORNING SO MUCH MORE BEARABLE.

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Feb 20, 2015

Dramaaaaaaa!

Feb 20, 2015

Does anyone reading this want to start recruiting at Villanova now?

Feb 20, 2015
DickFuld:

Does anyone reading this want to start recruiting at Villanova now?

Sick Burn

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Feb 20, 2015

I believe you meant to say 'blackball', calikid.

Saying blackbook makes it sound like the alumni want booty call you and tie you up in their red room of pain and do dirty things to you

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Feb 20, 2015
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